Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Chiarrai_abu

The positives were the fantastic passing we had for most of the game. Crowley had a great game, Paul Murphy was good, Stephen O'Brien showed for same great ball. Darren O'Sullivan was dangerous.
Plenty of positives, the last 5 minutes were too late to judge the game on.
A small bit more craft and we could have been in the game until the end.

Poor_old_gill

Aidan is not the player he used to be and doesn't have the ability to cover his obvious disciplinary shortcomings- it's time to phase him out.

You can't leave your team down like that in the heat of battle

DDC1990

Poor_old_gill wrote:

Aidan is not the player he used to be and doesn't have the ability to cover his obvious disciplinary shortcomings- it's time to phase him out.

Ah I don't know about that. Many more have fallen foul of Johnny Cooper's attemps to wind a guy up.

Its frustrating for the older guys. They had the Indian sign over the Dubs up until 2011. Now they have it over us. Its the likes of Mahoney, Marc, Sheehan, Gooch and Donaghy that looked most frustrated and were the most ineffective.

2016 is most likely their last year (bar possibly Sheehan). They wanted to win the game so much, but let themselves down with their performances.

Time for a change I feel. Pace and power over experience. I wouldn't be surprised to see all of the above bar Marc on the bench come championship time. With Buckley, Young, Maher and JoD replacing the others.

Donaghy had a fantastic league, but in Croke Park his pace is exposed at midfield and the persistant fouling from the Dublin fullback line is ignored when he goes in. Can't carry a player like that when it comes to Finals and Semi Finals.

munsterlegend

I thought the game was relatively even in the second half until the sending off. Dublin weren't playing particularly well at that time. I know Dublin finish strongly and more than likely would have won but it wasn't certain. the two goals has a bit of luck about them as well - mistake and off the post rebound which put an unbalanced look on the scoreline.

Dublin while definitely warm favourites are still human after all. in modern football its very hard to put two back to back. its not just the physical element but mentally as well the toll it takes.

The_Honeybadger

Wouldn't read too much into the 11 point defeat, it was damage limitation once we went down to 14. Dubs would likely have won regardless but I don't think there is the gaping chasm between the sides that some commentators seem to be saying. The side we put out yesterday doesn't have the legs for them though, assume this will be addressed when some of the missing players come back.

I sincerely hope Donaghy isn't playing full forward next time we meet them. It's a total waste pumping every ball up high to him when he is being pulled, dragged and held all day long. It was the same at the end of last years final. Refs are reluctant to blow for a free and we all know he gives as good as he gets but he is not the culprit every time. Either way we need a new tactic. It's infuriating watching the ball being turned over every time it's played in.

Plenty of positives to take from yesterday but lots of work to do also. You wouldn't back is to beat them in the championship on yesterday's showing but they are beatable all the same.

Kerrydude1981

We did go for a period in the second half that a few Dublin attacks were stopped and we were turning it over,but its when the ball is moving forward we just didn't have the support for the man on the ball,

It would go so far up and then the man on the ball would have to turn around to find a team mate or else lump it into Donaghy,slow build up play killed us

When Dublin attack they attack as team,the half backs do their best to get beyond on the ball but then they have the legs to get back if possession is turned over

Green_Tae

Yeah, the League Sunday consensus did not sit right with me at all - Kerry were well in the game prior to the red card and I might have fancied them to push on and maybe grab a win. I still think they lacked something at midfield; Sheehan was in that quarterback role yet he didn't attempt too many killer passes, also with Buckley absent a lot of the playmaking duties fell to Darran O'Sullivan who you would rather see on the end of those passes. Maybe Cooper's return to the no.11 spot might solve a lot of those problems?

Fr Tod Umptious

Did Kerry create a single goal scoring opportunity all day ?

There is a lot being written and talked about the outcome of this gameand "embarrassment" and "revenge".

But the same things were being said before the game, Sunday was the day for Kerry to get this Dublin monkey off their back.

Problem with Dublin seems to be the only way to beat them is hope they have a bad day or else be in such great physical shape that your starters can keep going late in the game to counter their ability to bring very fresh, very good players off the bench.

robbiezero

Green Tae wrote: »

Yeah, the League Sunday consensus did not sit right with me at all - Kerry were well in the game prior to the red card and I might have fancied them to push on and maybe grab a win. I still think they lacked something at midfield; Sheehan was in that quarterback role yet he didn't attempt too many killer passes, also with Buckley absent a lot of the playmaking duties fell to Darran O'Sullivan who you would rather see on the end of those passes. Maybe Cooper's return to the no.11 spot might solve a lot of those problems?

I didn't think they ever looked like winning the game. They seemed to run out of ideas in the second half completely other than bombing it in to Donaghy. Sending off or not Dublin were always going to finish strongly with the strength of their bench, it is hard to see where Kerry were going to get those scores to enable them to win the game.

ixus

Twin Towers at full forward is what you need. With J O'D sniffing for broken ball & Gooch delivering. Other players need to be athletic around pitch.

You will tie in at least four Dub defenders to the full back line if you try this and reduce overlaps. It doesn't mean lobbing every ball in but leaves space around the 30/40.

Any signs of this being trialled at training before?

Green_Tae

Contrary to popular opinion Dublin do not defend man-for-man - they have a well-tested sweeper system they use to great effect and have nullified quality target-men like Donaghy and O'Shea; also, they apply intensive pressure at midfield which means the man delivering the pass is almost always being closed down. Kerry in the past were masters of that high, diagonal ball. Dublin make that kind of pass very difficult to execute.

Does that mean Donaghy is ineffective as a full-forward? Don't think so. But if he's occupying three defenders then there's an opportunity there to be exploited by another forward. Fitzmaurice is a good tactician. O'Donoghue's return will bring a lot into the mix.

ixus

Agree on the single tall man at full forward. That chink was sorted after first Mayo game. I haven't seen Dubs put under double team of it though. You will tie in that extra back and cause panic.

Dublin defense has lost O'Carroll & McCaffrey.

If the above tactic was used and Kerry went for the jugular at the start, goals, I think Dubs would lose the rag for a while. Cluxton is their strength but he is a weakness when put under pressure. Both himself & McMahon ate liable to do something stupid under pressure a la O'Mahony.

If Kerry could get a couple of goals at the start and shut up shop in their own goals, Dubs would put themselves under huge pressure. That's how they usually blow up and that psychological makeup is still in them.

hanamandiol

Nobody mentioned the amount of hard won possession which we (kerry)coughed up easily.We gave away kickout possession numerous times,including one over sideline. I can recall about 10 other occasions when passes were not collected,passes badly executed,ball kicked to where no kerry player stood,badly directed foot passes - if you keep giving up possession average teams will beat you.
Dublin were faster,fitter, stronger and deserved their victory but we seem to learn little from previous defeats by Dubs
I thought our two best players were Crowley and Murphy-both substituted

Fr Tod Umptious

ixus wrote: »

Agree on the single tall man at full forward. That chink was sorted after first Mayo game. I haven't seen Dubs put under double team of it though. You will tie in that extra back and cause panic.

Dublin defense has lost O'Carroll & McCaffrey.

If the above tactic was used and Kerry went for the jugular at the start, goals, I think Dubs would lose the rag for a while. Cluxton is their strength but he is a weakness when put under pressure. Both himself & McMahon ate liable to do something stupid under pressure a la O'Mahony.

If Kerry could get a couple of goals at the start and shut up shop in their own goals, Dubs would put themselves under huge pressure. That's how they usually blow up and that psychological makeup is still in them.

Need to be super fit, and super disciplined to play at that game.

Dublin have such strength off the bench that they will be able to eventually over run you.

It happened to Mayo in the SF replay.
Went 3 up early in the second half, but had lost two key players, Seamus O'Shea to a black and Barry Moran to exhaustion.

Dublin then just over run them in the last 15 mins or more.

keane2097

Murphy and Crowley (after a poor start in his case tbf) were fantastic. O'Brien had his best game all year by a long way.

Marc was destroyed. Enright well beaten also IMO and having a very poor year so far. Griffin was only fair marking their worst forward by a mile.

Fionn lucky to see 20 minutes. Mahony had little or no impact before unusually getting pinged for one of his many typical indiscretions.

I think Donaghy and Moran are getting a bit of a harder time than they deserve based on the difference in quality of kickouts, plus the continued underrating of Dublin's midfield. Fenton is a class player, and Bastick has always been rugged, hard working and competent.

Nevertheless it's clear that trying to beat Dublin with two 'traditional midfielders' is a fool's errand. It's been clear for a long time really.

Walsh had a rare off day, and was woeful. Sheehan contributed about as much as he ever has at wing forward and should never be picked there again.

Gooch also getting too much negative press for me. He was flying in the first half, with Philly Mc blessed to escape booking while persistently fouling and eventually being carted. The supply of ball in the final quarter wasn't great.

Darran has a big problem with needing a second chance to gather ball too often. He tends to get it against worse teams so it's not that big a deal but at the pace of a match against Dublin it's a killer.

It's criminal Brendan O'Sullivan played so little in the league.

corny

keane2097 wrote: »

I think Donaghy and Moran are getting a bit of a harder time than they deserve based on the difference in quality of kickouts, plus the continued underrating of Dublin's midfield. Fenton is a class player, and Bastick has always been rugged, hard working and competent.

Nevertheless it's clear that trying to beat Dublin with two 'traditional midfielders' is a fool's errand. It's been clear for a long time really.

Its a good point. Kerry didn't even bother trying to work on option the majority of the time. Donaghy and Moran occupied the same space and Kealy just launched it at them. Mayo did something similar against Dublin last year and came a cropper.

From an outsider that ties in with my view of Fitzmaurice. He's slow to accept things not going to plan. His instinct is always 'hit it harder'.

Slattsy

ixus wrote: »

Agree on the single tall man at full forward. That chink was sorted after first Mayo game. I haven't seen Dubs put under double team of it though. You will tie in that extra back and cause panic.

Dublin defense has lost O'Carroll & McCaffrey.

If the above tactic was used and Kerry went for the jugular at the start, goals, I think Dubs would lose the rag for a while. Cluxton is their strength but he is a weakness when put under pressure. Both himself & McMahon ate liable to do something stupid under pressure a la O'Mahony.

If Kerry could get a couple of goals at the start and shut up shop in their own goals, Dubs would put themselves under huge pressure. That's how they usually blow up and that psychological makeup is still in them.

Yip, just like the Mayo semi-final last year. Dublin blew up.

(I generally only read other teams' threads, but had to comment on that gem)

paintitwhite

Shocked at how poor Walsh and Kealy were due to their high standards. Brogan has had Marcs number for a while now. Enright has had a very poor league overall IMO. Mark Griffin did ok but I don't rate Dean Rock. Crowley and O'Brien seemed decent. I echo Keane's view on Gooch first half display. From the red card on the service was very poor. But I think the free he missed in first half drained his confidence. Why didn't Sheehan take it although I didn't think he offered much. I also couldn't agree more on how its a pity we didnt see more of Brendan O'Sullivan throughout the league. People are saying we've JOD Geaney etc. to come back but tbh I don't think they solve a problem area so I don't share the same optimism. Anyone else notice Kevin McManamon throwing the ball away after the penalty? Came into mind how much stick BJK got for a similar incident a few years ago. Paul Murphy has done well in the half forward line but I think the need is greater for him in the back line. My forward line would be:
O'Brien Darran Walsh
JOD Donaghy Cooper

Bonniedog

ixus wrote: »

. That's how they usually blow up and that psychological makeup is still in them.

Have you been asleep for a few years?

ProudDUB

Slattsy wrote: »

Yip, just like the Mayo semi-final last year. Dublin blew up.

(I generally only read other teams' threads, but had to comment on that gem)

Gas isn't it? Aidan O'Mahony saw the line in the AI final and he got his marching orders again yesterday. But Dublin are the ones who may blow up?

Okey dokey then ! :rolleyes:

There are a lot of great posters in this thread, who are intelligent and insightful about what they see. But as the mammy says....there's always one !

ixus

Take it out of context and read it how you want to. It's your birth right as a Dub.

My posts detailed a way I think Dublin can be beaten by Kerry. They are not invincible, as good as they are. Deny Dublin goals, score goals, Dublin become burdened by the Hills frustrations and become narky. It's not a revelation. Sure a few of them are like that when winning!

I'm not from Kerry either. Kildare for my sins.

Do you think Dublin are unbeatable?

Bonniedog

ixus wrote: »

Take it out of context and read it how you want to. It's your birth right as a Dub.

My posts detailed a way I think Dublin can be beaten by Kerry. They are not invincible, as good as they are. Deny Dublin goals, score goals, Dublin become burdened by the Hills frustrations and become narky. It's not a revelation. Sure a few of them are like that when winning!

I'm not from Kerry either. Kildare for my sins.

Do you think Dublin are unbeatable?

No-one is unbeatable obviously.

Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone will all be there in August. Big Dublin Kerry games have often turned on particular incidents; a sending off, a penalty, a goal against the run of play, and so on. Dublin happen to be getting the better of them these times. Won't always be so.

keane2097

I think every team is capable of blowing up a bit if they get hit by goals at the wrong time. Someone will certainly need something like that to happen to Dublin if they're to come a cropper this year.

Fabulous team.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

I think every team is capable of blowing up a bit if they get hit by goals at the wrong time. Someone will certainly need something like that to happen to Dublin if they're to come a cropper this year.

Fabulous team.

Yes you heat Dublin by them have an off day.

They had a major off day V Donegal, notwithstanding Donegal's early goals Dublin guys who were lights out could not hit a barn door in the second half.

Take the Mayo game this year, this time from a position of strength, players like Cluxton could suddenly not do what was their bread and butter earlier in the day and all season, he missed a rake of long frees.

corny

ixus wrote: »

My posts detailed a way I think Dublin can be beaten by Kerry. They are not invincible, as good as they are. Deny Dublin goals, score goals, Dublin become burdened by the Hills frustrations and become narky. It's not a revelation. Sure a few of them are like that when winning!

Historically you may have a point but its just plain wrong when tested against the current team. They've demonstrated the highest resolve time and again.

They're not unbeatable but you'll be left waiting for them to hand it to you.

ProudDUB

Dublin may become narky & lose because of the Hill? Ok, now we are into cloud cuckoo land territory. Last time I checked, the Hill was Dublin's 16th man in a lot of peoples minds. Is that not one of the reasons why people want Dublin taken out of Croke Park more often? If you think otherwise, you won't find many Dubs agreeing with you, including the players.

Of course Dublin are not unbeatable. Lots of things could happen that could throw them off their stride. Cluxton's kick outs could go to pot, Cian O'Sullivan could do his cruciate, or Bernard Brogan could have a crap year, plus about 100 other things that could impact their year negatively. I doubt if the Hills "narkiness" is going to factor into anything.

ProudDUB

ProudDUB wrote: »

Dublin may become narky & lose because of the Hill? Ok, now we are into cloud cuckoo land territory. Last time I checked, the Hill was Dublin's 16th man in a lot of peoples minds. Is that not one of the reasons why people want Dublin taken out of Croke Park more often?

Only one among many in fairness to other counties.

cms88

ProudDUB wrote: »

Dublin may become narky & lose because of the Hill? Ok, now we are into cloud cuckoo land territory. Last time I checked, the Hill was Dublin's 16th man in a lot of peoples minds. Is that not one of the reasons why people want Dublin taken out of Croke Park more often? If you think otherwise, you won't find many Dubs agreeing with you, including the players.

Of course Dublin are not unbeatable. Lots of things could happen that could throw them off their stride. Cluxton's kick outs could go to pot, Cian O'Sullivan could do his cruciate, or Bernard Brogan could have a crap year, plus about 100 other things that could impact their year negatively. I doubt if the Hills "narkiness" is going to factor into anything.

Where was that said? making things up now?

EICVD

cms88 wrote: »

Where was that said? making things up now?

Post #7912

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

Only one among many in fairness to other counties.

What other counties would these be now?

In last ten years the only county on Leinster Council to vote to have early round games outside of CP involving Dublin have been the county or counties due to play Dublin! All of the others have voted to keep the match in Croke Park. Doesn't matter a damn to Dublin where they play and neither footballers or hurlers have ever objected to having to play anywhere. Other ironically than some in hurling camp who prefer playing in Parnell