Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Deise Tom

Saw Paul Geaney playing on Saturday. What a Prospect he is. I know he was up against very poor opposition on the day but he was still brilliant. Barry John Walsh i thought was also very good. Seems to have a great eye for the ball. Saw him playing under 14 for kerry a few years ago and he was head and shoulders above everyone else.

keane2097

MementoMori wrote: »

I'm sick to death of saying it but Reidy should be played in the half-back line. He's not defensive enough minded for the full-back line and he plays either half-back or centre-back for his club. Sadly the options in the full-back line aren't all that great in terms of cover.

He was absolutely outstanding as a centre-back at minor level iirc.

Was very surprised when he came into the senior team in the full back line, certainly better suited to half-back imo...

Kingdom

Kingdom wrote: »

I well believe we'll take Mayo the weekend which leaves Tyrone and Monaghan. A win against the Mayomen and anything is possible. I'd be surprised if Kerry aren't in with a big shout after next weekend. Nice to see a bit of momentum too what with the U21's unexpected win.

Shows what I know! :)

thesultan

O'Mahoney hasn't been himself since the dive against Cork. The ferciousity has gone out of his play. Scanlan is one center fielder but Quirke hasn't the legs for it in the summer. I think that David Moran is laboured at times on the field if he got his mindset focused he could play at center forward or center field. Alot of the younger players like O'Donghue , Keane, O'Leary if they could perform in Omagh should give them championship time come summer. We still need cover for the backs.

thesultan

MementoMori wrote: »

David O'Callaghan played underage but was injured for a fair bit lately I think.
Also playing with Blennerville he's not exactly in among the bigger clubs.

I'm sick to death of saying it but Reidy should be played in the half-back line. He's not defensive enough minded for the full-back line and he plays either half-back or centre-back for his club. Sadly the options in the full-back line aren't all that great in terms of cover.

Mayo game the next day should be a good enough game with the way they are going this year.

I agree with you on Reidy . struggles a bit in the full back line

fresca

the best centre forward in the country is declan o'sullivan and i don't see jack giving david moran a run at centre forward this year.

realistically, there are 2 forward places up for grabs - 1 corner & 1 wing.
4 places already taken - star & gooch on full forward line; declan & paul on half forward line.
lots of competition for those 2 places though... david o'callaghan, david moran, brian sheehan, kieran o'leary, darran o'sullivan ... + under 21's: both barry john's and paul geaney.

at midfield, i believe the question is who will partner seamus scanlon.
micheal quirke, anthony maher or johnny buckley?
come the summer it may well be anthony maher. maybe buckley will be given a run at wing forward rather than at midfield?

in the backs, i imagine that tomas o'se, killian young & aidan o'mahoney will start at half back, with marc o'se, tommy griffin and tom sullivan the full back line.

adrian o'connell is probably the only back to make a run this year. and well done to him.

so a team along the following lines is not a weak team & will be competitive...
01. Brendan Keally
02. Marc O'Se
03. Tommy Griffin
04. Tom O'Sullivan
05. Tomas O'Se
06. Aidan O'Mahoney
07. Killian Young
08. Anthony Maher
09. Seamus Scanlon
10. Paul galvin
11. Declan O'Sullivan
12. David Moran
13. Gooch
14. Star
15. Barry John Walsh

thesultan wrote: »

O'Mahoney hasn't been himself since the dive against Cork. The ferciousity has gone out of his play. Scanlan is one center fielder but Quirke hasn't the legs for it in the summer. I think that David Moran is laboured at times on the field if he got his mindset focused he could play at center forward or center field. Alot of the younger players like O'Donghue , Keane, O'Leary if they could perform in Omagh should give them championship time come summer. We still need cover for the backs.

D'Agger

thesultan wrote: »

I think that David Moran is laboured at times on the field if he got his mindset focused he could play at center forward or center field.

Could you explain to me how he's laboured please

He's never going to get into the wing forward line imo - he's a midfielder through and through - has the athletecism and fielding ability, it doesnt' look natural to me seeing him on the wing or '40

D'Agger

fresca wrote: »

the best centre forward in the country is declan o'sullivan and i don't see jack giving david moran a run at centre forward this year.

+1

realistically, there are 2 forward places up for grabs - 1 corner & 1 wing.
4 places already taken - star & gooch on full forward line; declan & paul on half forward line.
lots of competition for those 2 places though... david o'callaghan, david moran, brian sheehan, kieran o'leary, darran o'sullivan ... + under 21's: both barry john's and paul geaney.

I'd have O'Callaghan on the wing he's been very impressive so far in the league and he not only does donkey work in helping out his defence coming deep, winning breaking ball etc., he's decent going forward also. For the corner I'd give Paul O' Connor a shot - he's been waiting long enough, he's a great athlete - strong, fast, shoots well off both feet, eye for goal and of course his free & 45 taking ability.

at midfield, i believe the question is who will partner seamus scanlon.
micheal quirke, anthony maher or johnny buckley?
come the summer it may well be anthony maher. maybe buckley will be given a run at wing forward rather than at midfield?

I'd have Moran in with him tbh - I think Buckley's the same as Moran - out and out midfielder so wouldn't have them on the wings - looking forward to seeing them play together in a few years at midfield though fingers crossed.

in the backs, i imagine that tomas o'se, killian young & aidan o'mahoney will start at half back, with marc o'se, tommy griffin and tom sullivan the full back line.

I'd nearly try out Tomás in the centre and give Reidy and Young a go on the wings - as was pointed out in the thread a few posts up - Reidy is a good half back line player and (while I know it was minor level) he looked like a young Seamus Moynihan at centre back at that age - he's just not physical enough for it yet imo - I think Tomás should be given a shot in the centre though - he's a good defender, plenty of experience and it'd give us three good attacking options from the half back line.

So for me:

01. Brendan Keally
02. Marc O'Se
03. Tommy Griffin
04. Tom O'Sullivan
05. Padraig Reidy
06. Tomás O'Se
07. Killian Young
08. David Moran
09. Seamus Scanlon
10. Paul galvin
11. Declan O'Sullivan
12. David O' Callaghan
13. Gooch
14. Star
15. Paul O' Connor[/QUOTE]

thesultan

PaulieC wrote: »

Could you explain to me how he's laboured please

He's never going to get into the wing forward line imo - he's a midfielder through and through - has the athletecism and fielding ability, it doesnt' look natural to me seeing him on the wing or '40

I saw him playing against Kilmurry and I thought that he strolled around the field and he played in the same manner against Cork in the league. He upped it against Derry but he needs more consistancy in his play to partner Seamus

D'Agger

thesultan wrote: »

I saw him playing against Kilmurry and I thought that he strolled around the field and he played in the same manner against Cork in the league. He upped it against Derry but he needs more consistancy in his play to partner Seamus

Whatever about the Cork game he had one eye on Australia against Kilmurry I'd imagine - it'll come with time I'd imagine

keane2097

PaulieC wrote: »

Could you explain to me how he's laboured please

He's never going to get into the wing forward line imo - he's a midfielder through and through - has the athletecism and fielding ability, it doesnt' look natural to me seeing him on the wing or '40

I agree that he looks laboured at times tbh.

He's very one-paced if you know what I mean.

This has the effect that when he plays well he looks an extremely stylish and elegant footballer, when he plays badly he can look lethargic and laboured.

He's more than capable of playing on the 40, as evidenced by his performance when moved to that position from midfield against Mid-Kerry in the County Final the year before last, where Ciaran Kelleher went from Mid-Kerry's best player at centre-back to being under extreme pressure.

David played fantastically in those two games, pulling all the strings in an attacking sense, and laying on some great passes to the full forward line.

His distribution being probably his best attribute imo makes David an ideal centre-forward.

keane2097

PaulieC wrote: »

Whatever about the Cork game he had one eye on Australia against Kilmurry I'd imagine - it'll come with time I'd imagine

He was home from Australia at that stage.

MementoMori

Would agree with a lot of this stuff.

There are a number of spots which barring injury are nailed on certainties.[Gooch, Donaghy, Declan, Paul, O'Se*2, Young, Scanlon] and probably Griffin, Reidy and Tom Sull, as well.

I'd imagine there's probably one mid-field spot and two spots in the forward.

I'd imagine that the six backs and keeper are probably nailed down (although someone suggested that Mac an tSaoi might push Kealy for the keeper spot come Championship time - personally I'd be surprised though) Been impressed with what I've seen of O'Connell but think he'll be on the bench. Any word on Bohane? Last I heard he was still having trouble with his back,which is a shame. Would have liked to have seen Aidan O'Shea get some time in the league as like others I'd be concerned about depth in the backs.

Scanlon is a shoe-in for midfield imo. Personally I'd order the midfielder contenders in the order Maher, Moran and Quirke [Quirke loses out due to the lack of mobility and distribution plus te fact there is no mark come Championship, I think Moran would work better off the subs bench talented though he may be, and Maher would just edge it for me] On Buckley I think this year might be a bit soon for him given his age - pretty sure he's U21 next year as well (not 100%) Buckley is a midfielder and that's where his future for Kerry is long-term. I'd say Moran looks more like a centre-forward than a midfielder but he's not goint to displace Dec Sull.

On O'Callaghan I definately wouldnt have him starting yet as I don't think he's up to the pace of Championship football. Was caught a couple of times in possession the last day and I think he still has to get used to a having a lot less time to react compared to club football. If the pace of league football is catching him out now, can't see him being to cope when the intensity is upped come Championship time. I'd have Darren Sull and Donnacha Walsh filling in the two forward spots up for grabs. Re the forwards I would have Brian Sheehan well down the pecking order in terms of the forwards as I would have very little confidence in his level of fight and hunger in terms of winning dirty ball/harrying and hasseling defenders and winning breaking ball.

Kingdom

A few things. Someone made a call on Paul O'Connor: I'd agree to an extent, the boy has talent, he's been on the scene a while, and in the absence of any real stand out talent, I'd be inclined to agree that he's worth a shout.

I don't understand any talk of two midfield spots up for grabs. Seamus Scanlon has been our best midfielder, in the positions all round game, for the past two seasons, and was the best midfielder in Ireland last season. For me he outshone Darragh completely, deserved his AllStar and is firmly our lock for midfield. Who partners him is the question? I would suspect it will be more of a ball playing midfielder, which would rule out Quirke, but could be exactly up David Moran's street, and in that extent it still wouldn't surprise me to see Donaghy move out at some stage.

As for the half back line, I can't see any changes from Tomás and Killian on the wings, and tbh, I don't think there should be. Both are fantastic carriers of the ball, and while Tomas is a good defender, I personally don't think he would be good enough as centre half back, and that it would restrict his game, and Kerry's game as a result. I'm sorry lads that I don't have the same faith as ye re: Padraig Reidy, but I don't think he's the answer either. If we could get a competent corner back, Marc O'Sé would be a real candidate I think - quick, very good on the turn, reasonably good in the air, whilst a fantastic footballer capable of scoring and assisting too.....but I'd still fancy O'Mahony to be given a chance.

Lastly, Donnchadh Walsh. He is the tactical player in the squad, insofar as he's suited to playing certain teams, and not others. Jack and the men will know when to use him.

For me there's still a bit up in the air.

Kealy
Marc
Tommy Griffin
Tom Sull
Tomás Sé
Aidan O'Mahony
Killian Young
Seamus Scanlon
?
Paul Galvin
Declan
?
Gooch
Kieran Donaghy
Paul O'Connor

fresca

with 2 games left in the league, it will be interesting to see which players jack uses.
i assume that with the u-21 final in tralee next wed night (31st march), that this will free make some players available for the monaghan game (11th april).
i suggest we take particular note of the team sheet for the monaghan game, as this could very well be about finalising the last few sports for the championship opener.
bar of course any "bolter" coming through in training and county league over april & may.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

He's more than capable of playing on the 40, as evidenced by his performance when moved to that position from midfield against Mid-Kerry in the County Final the year before last, where Ciaran Kelleher went from Mid-Kerry's best player at centre-back to being under extreme pressure.

David played fantastically in those two games, pulling all the strings in an attacking sense, and laying on some great passes to the full forward line.

His distribution being probably his best attribute imo makes David an ideal centre-forward.

His distribution is fantastic alright but I'd want him in midfield for that too along with his fielding - if he's in midfield he can come deep and spray passes from there to the forwards. I know it was a county final but stepping up to county standard at that position is different, instead of Ciaran Kelleher he'll be up against the likes of Graham Canty, Conor Gormley, Barry Cahill etc.

Declan O'Sullivan for me is the ideal centre forward - he has the ability to go through the gears, he can slow the pace of the game or up it with his runs. His forraging skills all over the field are fantastic aswell.

I wasn't saying Dave can't play on the '40, I just think, for Kerry, he won't make it there as long as Declan O' Sull is around as he's the best centre forward in the country imo and his general style of play would make him a potentially great midfielder for Kerry. He's still developing, but even now I'd have Moran ahead of Maher in the midfield pecking order

keane2097

PaulieC wrote: »

His distribution is fantastic alright but I'd want him in midfield for that too along with his fielding - if he's in midfield he can come deep and spray passes from there to the forwards. I know it was a county final but stepping up to county standard at that position is different, instead of Ciaran Kelleher he'll be up against the likes of Graham Canty, Conor Gormley, Barry Cahill etc.

Declan O'Sullivan for me is the ideal centre forward - he has the ability to go through the gears, he can slow the pace of the game or up it with his runs. His forraging skills all over the field are fantastic aswell.

I wasn't saying Dave can't play on the '40, I just think, for Kerry, he won't make it there as long as Declan O' Sull is around as he's the best centre forward in the country imo and his general style of play would make him a potentially great midfielder for Kerry. He's still developing, but even now I'd have Moran ahead of Maher in the midfield pecking order

There's nothing about Declan O'Sullivan's game that needs him to be on the 40 rather than at wing-forward imo, especially with the fluid nature of half-back/forward lines in the modern game.

If anything he would be more effective on the wing imo.

EDIT:

Also, it's foolish to suggest that stepping from club to county level at centre-forward is more difficult than the same step at midfield.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

There's nothing about Declan O'Sullivan's game that needs him to be on the 40 rather than at wing-forward imo, especially with the fluid nature of half-back/forward lines in the modern game.

If anything he would be more effective on the wing imo.

imo he's at his most dangerous when he runs through the middle, right at the heart of the opposition defence as he did against Galway, finishing with a goal - he frequently pops up on the wing but I think having him in a central position makes him more of a danger.

Also, it's foolish to suggest that stepping from club to county level at centre-forward is more difficult than the same step at midfield.

Fair enough foolish point

keane2097

PaulieC wrote: »

imo he's at his most dangerous when he runs through the middle, right at the heart of the opposition defence as he did against Galway, finishing with a goal - he frequently pops up on the wing but I think having him in a central position makes him more of a danger.

Unfortunately you can't always play every player in their absolute optimum position (see Marc O'Sé doing a job in a weak full back line rather than playing to his potential in the half-back line). You have to move players around basde on the idea of making the best of what you have.

Moving Declan O'Sullivan to the wing might curb him slightly, while allowing some or our stronger fringe players to come in and play effectively at centre-forward rather than ineffectively at wing-forward.

I think that would be an acceptable situation.

PaulieC wrote: »

Fair enough foolish point

Lol

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

Unfortunately you can't always play every player in their absolute optimum position (see Marc O'Sé doing a job in a weak full back line rather than playing to his potential in the half-back line). You have to move players around basde on the idea of making the best of what you have.

Moving Declan O'Sullivan to the wing might curb him slightly, while allowing some or our stronger fringe players to come in and play effectively at centre-forward rather than ineffectively at wing-forward.

I think that would be an acceptable situation.

So just to clear it up - you'd have Moran centre forward flanked by Declan and Galvin? - if so that's grand, Dave did very well at centre forward against Derry imo but that's the last game I saw properly.

I'd still prefer to see Moran midfield - it's where he plays his best football imo and keep Declan centre flanked by Galvin and, based on his league performances, O'Callaghan.

Like you say you want to make the best of what you have - I think Kerry would be playing to their strengths with the lineup I stated a few posts ago. I don't see why Dave isn't starting midfield, I think he offers more dynamism than Quirke or Maher based on his passing ability coupled with his fielding, athletecism and willingness to join the attack and kick points.

Kingdom

The single most important part of GAA is to have a strong spine. By taking Dec out of that spine the team is fundamentally weaker. He's the best #11 in the country. There is a massive, massive difference between 10/12 & 11 in my opinion. The 11 is the creator while more often that not the other two are just as good harrying as they are attacking, hence why we've had a collection of Galvin, Donnchadh and Darren to a degree on the flanks the past while.

If it takes a year of underachievement with David at centre field (or anyone else for that matter) to come to terms with championship football, then thats better in the long run.

D'Agger

Kingdom wrote: »

The single most important part of GAA is to have a strong spine. By taking Dec out of that spine the team is fundamentally weaker. He's the best #11 in the country. There is a massive, massive difference between 10/12 & 11 in my opinion. The 11 is the creator while more often that not the other two are just as good harrying as they are attacking, hence why we've had a collection of Galvin, Donnchadh and Darren to a degree on the flanks the past while.

If it takes a year of underachievement with David at centre field (or anyone else for that matter) to come to terms with championship football, then thats better in the long run.

But sure wouldn't having an underachieving player at midfield affect the spine?? Kinda undermines your point tbh.

Don't get me wrong, I think Daves natural position is midfield and Declan is the best centre forward in Ireland, but Keano made a decent point that one of the best attributes is his distribution so technically he could fill the centre forward position adequately with Declan still creating and forraging like he normally does from deep.

As we saw a few years ago when Donnaghy made his breakthrough, he caused havoc from angled balls in from the wing forwards - Declan and Galvin would be the two main men you'd want providing him with such quality ball.

My opinion is that Dave should be midfield now anyway - I don't think he'd be in any way inadequate there - I think he'd slot right in seamlessly, but at the same time I think it's not unreasonable to believe that he could play at 11 - I don't think it'd have a massive impact on how we play

keane2097

PaulieC wrote: »

So just to clear it up - you'd have Moran centre forward flanked by Declan and Galvin? - if so that's grand, Dave did very well at centre forward against Derry imo but that's the last game I saw properly.

Yup, that's what I'd have.

keane2097

It's clear from this thread that Micheal Quirke is still criminally underrated in Kerry by the way.

keane2097

Kingdom wrote: »

The single most important part of GAA is to have a strong spine.

This isn't necessarily true just because you state it as a fact.

My own opinion is that over the last number of years (since 2003 effectively) the 5/7/10/12 positions have become the pivotal roles in Gaelic Football.

Kingdom wrote: »

By taking Dec out of that spine the team is fundamentally weaker. He's the best #11 in the country.

Again this is not necessarily the case.

Slightly weakening one position on the team to allow a new player to come in to a position he's most suited to, stregthening the wings hugely (Declan O'Sullivan >>>>>>>>> Drren O'Sullivan or Donnacha Walsh) would potentially have a positive impact on the team overall.

Kingdom wrote: »

If it takes a year of underachievement with David at centre field (or anyone else for that matter) to come to terms with championship football, then thats better in the long run.

Alternatively have a year of him getting to grips with the pace of Championship football in a less pivotal position and allow him to step into midfield gradually.

The "year with an inexperienced guy to settle in" theory was tried with Seamus Scanlon and it stunted him terribly.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

It's clear from this thread that Micheal Quirke is still criminally underrated in Kerry by the way.

Not really - I like Quirke, his attitude is very good - great team player and has done fantastically when called upon but I'd prefer to see David Moran starting midfield with a view to developing him into a very good intercounty midfielder in a few years when our panel is going to lose a good few regulars.

I'd nearly have Moran & Quirke in for the start of the championship because I don't think Scanlons been playing great this league campaign

fresca

01. Brendan Kealy
02. Padraig Reidy
03. Tommy Griffin
04. Tom O'Sullivan
05. Marc O'Se
06. Aidan O'Mahoney
07. Killian Young
08. Seamus Scanlon
09. Anthony Maher
10. David Moran
11. Declan O'Sullivan
12. Donnacha Walsh
13. Colm Cooper
14. Kieran Donaghy
15. Kieran O'Leary

strong enough team.
looking forward to it.

slingerz

Declan o Sullivan is probably the best centre forward in the country and thats coming from a cork man

keane2097

slingerz wrote: »

Declan o Sullivan is probably the best centre forward in the country and thats coming from a cork man

I don't think there's anyone else in his class tbh.

MementoMori

keane2097 wrote: »

It's clear from this thread that Micheal Quirke is still criminally underrated in Kerry by the way.

As one who has said that I'd have him 4th in the pecking order, I would like to say that he is a very good footballer and I appreciate the great efforts he has made for Kerry in the green and gold. In most other counties he would be a guaranteed starter but at the moment there are is quality competition for the midfield berth.

Also given the age profile of the squad/team, I think it's better for Kerry to try and push forward the development of Moran and Maher this year (and Buckley soon enough) as I have concerns that in a year ot two the backs are going to need massive restructuring and it will be easier to do this if we're not trying to sort midfield out as well.

For me his lack of mobility on a big pitch is just a killer factor. If one of your midfielder is largely restricted to the limited patch of the centre of the field, you are handing the opposition a big advantage. In years gone by his lack of mobility wouldn't be as much of an issue but the way the game is played mobility is just a massive factor and there is just no getting away from this.