Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

corny

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Sheehan has had a woeful championship so him being awful was no surprise.
The reason the story about him playing in goals went around was it was blatantly obvious how badly beaten he was around the centre of the pitch in the games against Clare. I don't think there is any place for him in the Kerry squad anymore and that's even if both Donaghy and Maher retire.
JOD came on in the 58th minute v Tipp and played 66 minutes v Tipp prior to the Dublin game. That followed no game time in the league - he was clearly not match fit.
Marc is 36 and a bit.
BJK kicked one great point and did nothing else.

It's no great surprised that Kerry faded again in the closing stages given all of the following are over 30

Aidan O'Mahony
Marc Ó Sé
Kieran Donaghy
Colm Cooper
Donnchadh Walsh
Bryan Sheehan
Darran O’Sullivan
Anthony Maher
Brendan Kealy

It's tough to know how to manage the transition that is coming.

I think Aidan, Marc and Kieran are gone for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if any of Cooper, Walsh or Maher called it a day. Sheehan I don't think there is any place for on a intercounty team that has any aspirations of challenging.

On the management front I'd be shocked if Eamonn stayed on for another year. Longer-term I wouldn't be surprised if he stepped down for a few years and recharged the batteries. Worth remembering that the only team that have beaten Kerry in championship during Eamonn's time in charge have been Dublin and there's no shame in that given how good this Dublin team are. Also worth remembering that during his time in charge all of the following retired from intercounty action - Tom O'Sullivan, Seamus Scanlon, Tommy Griffin, Eoin Brosnan, Tomas O'Se, Paul Galvin, Declan O'Sullivan, Paul Galvin (again) That's in addition to the lads above who are likely to head off to the sunset very soon.

Yeah but only Cooper and AOM were on the pitch at the end with reason to be tired. O'Mahony was epic throughout and although Cooper missed an easy chance I didn't see him not pulling his weight when it came to working back.

For whatever reason...concentration, maybe fitness in JODs case, the Kerry sub's just didn't hit the ground running. I accept the scores they got. Defensively I'm talking about.

Compare it to Dublin? Mannion and Fitzsimons both effected turnovers. Both worked back well. Even Costello pulled his weight dragging a Kerry lad to the ground.;) Sorry poor joke.

Crucial stuff though IMO. Kerry just made it too easy for Dublin to get scores in the end and the lads who should have been fresh and eager in defence did nothing to help.

Kerrydude1981

https://twitter.com/kerryman_ie/status/773079504021495808

dobman88

Another two year term for Fitz. Absolutely delighted. He's been pretty successful imo given we are supposed to be in transition

Fr Tod Umptious

dobman88 wrote: »

Another two year term for Fitz. Absolutely delighted. He's been pretty successful imo given we are supposed to be in transition

Has he really had much success ?

He has won an All-Ireland fair enough, but they did not have to play Dublin in the process.

They have never beaten Dublin in the championship during his tenure.

They have been pretty abysmal in the league, just avoiding relegation most years.

He has been to loyal to the older members of the squad, his former colleagues, Marc O’ Se, Aidan O’Mahoney, Darran O’ Sullivan, Donaghey, Sheehan etc.

He has made some very questionable moves on the line at crucial times, Jack Sherwood in 2013, Paul Galvin in 2015, and Marc O’ Se for Geaney in 2016 .

I really think it’s time for a change.

Dyr

Good call to beatify him for another couple of years

Smiley face cos some kerry posters are fierce literal

dobman88

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Has he really had much success ?

He has won an All-Ireland fair enough, but they did not have to play Dublin in the process.

They have never beaten Dublin in the championship during his tenure.

They have been pretty abysmal in the league, just avoiding relegation most years.

He has been to loyal to the older members of the squad, his former colleagues, Marc O’ Se, Aidan O’Mahoney, Darran O’ Sullivan, Donaghey, Sheehan etc.

He has made some very questionable moves on the line at crucial times, Jack Sherwood in 2013, Paul Galvin in 2015, and Marc O’ Se for Geaney in 2016 .

I really think it’s time for a change.

Yes imo. A win, a final and a semi final narrowly beaten by the champions with a decent performance. Also a league final appearance so I wouldn't class that as just avoiding relegation.

I for one am very happy to see him renew. Who else, apart from Jack again, would be fit for the job?

I fully expect Jack O Connor to be the next manager but I don't think he's done working his magic with the unders yet.

keane2097

Only one team has actually beaten Dublin in Fitzmaurice's tenure so I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat him. The league performances are utterly insignificant when they are put in the context of getting to two All Ireland finals in a row and pushing Dublin all the way in the SF the other two years.

He's far from perfect but has done well over his four years. Whether he's good enough to go the next step and turn Dublin over is an open question, but one that applies to the players also.

If he can get some of the talented youngsters operating at a good senior level next year it would be hard to have too many complaints.

dobman88

This must be a first. Myself and Keane agreeing on something :pac:

Boom__Boom

corny wrote: »

Yeah but only Cooper and AOM were on the pitch at the end with reason to be tired. O'Mahony was epic throughout and although Cooper missed an easy chance I didn't see him not pulling his weight when it came to working back.

Donaghy and Darran both went off with injuries - the older you are/the more miles on the clock the more likely you are to pick up injuries. Maher and Donnacha both had to be replaced because their race was run. That's 4 out of 6 subs gone because of not being able to last the full game. Even if Donaghy and Darran hadn't been injured odds are they would have to have been subbed off anyway as the number of times they have played a full game for Kerry in the last 3/4 years is tiny.

Also I wouldn't agree O'Mahony was epic - he was reasonable - he battled but he was in a lot of trouble on a a fair few occasions - he gave away a couple of frees and he was a long long way off what he would have done if he had been given a sweeper role at the peak of his powers.

Of the 9 listed Kealy is pretty much the only one I would be confident of lasting a full game against Dublin. You can get away with having one or two players like this in a squad but 8 players who don't have a full 70 minutes in them restricts things massively in terms of cutting down your sub options.

As a comparison look at the Dublin teams and ask the same question - how many are in the category of nearly certain to be subbed before the end in every game because they just won't have the legs to play the full game - probably Bastic for MDMA and that's about it.

Boom__Boom

keane2097 wrote: »

Only one team has actually beaten Dublin in Fitzmaurice's tenure so I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat him. The league performances are utterly insignificant when they are put in the context of getting to two All Ireland finals in a row and pushing Dublin all the way in the SF the other two years.

He's far from perfect but has done well over his four years. Whether he's good enough to go the next step and turn Dublin over is an open question, but one that applies to the players also.

If he can get some of the talented youngsters operating at a good senior level next year it would be hard to have too many complaints.

There's also the fact that the options in terms of replacing him aren't too hectic if Jack doesn't want it yet (especially when you look at how some of the recent U21 and minor managements that weren't either Eamonn or Jack got on ) which isn't that surprising as it's a massive job in terms of GAA management.

Also I was basing my opinion of him being unlikely to stay on, on a conversation I had with some of his relatives a few months back so it will be interesting what they have to say from themselves next time I meet them.

keane2097

dobman88 wrote: »

This must be a first. Myself and Keane agreeing on something :pac:

I didn't realise we disagreed as much as all that. Never liked ya.

keane2097

Boom__Boom wrote: »

There's also the fact that the options in terms of replacing him aren't too hectic if Jack doesn't want it yet (especially when you look at how some of the recent U21 and minor managements that weren't either Eamonn or Jack got on ) which isn't that surprising as it's a massive job in terms of GAA management.

Also I was basing my opinion of him being unlikely to stay on, on a conversation I had with some of his relatives a few months back so it will be interesting what they have to say from themselves next time I meet them.

The genie was out of the bottle about him staying on around the time of the Clare game but I got the impression that it was to be kept quiet for whatever reason.

I'm pretty OK with it but a bit worried about his intransigence with regard to selection when we have so many talented youngsters to bring along. I guess we need some new options for taking on Dublin, let's see how he goes about that.

buyer95

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Has he really had much success ?

He has won an All-Ireland fair enough, but they did not have to play Dublin in the process.

They have never beaten Dublin in the championship during his tenure.

They have been pretty abysmal in the league, just avoiding relegation most years.

He has been to loyal to the older members of the squad, his former colleagues, Marc O’ Se, Aidan O’Mahoney, Darran O’ Sullivan, Donaghey, Sheehan etc.

He has made some very questionable moves on the line at crucial times, Jack Sherwood in 2013, Paul Galvin in 2015, and Marc O’ Se for Geaney in 2016 .

I really think it’s time for a change.

That comment there makes a mockery of your whole argument.

Dublin have had the best team in the country bar none since 2012. Kerry in that time have managed to win an All Ireland, make an All Ireland final and 2 semis. Kerry have been up against it every year, quite simply Dublin have the best team by a distance. If that's not good enough Páidí O Sé was right, Kerry people are fúcking animals.

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

Only one team has actually beaten Dublin in Fitzmaurice's tenure so I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat him. The league performances are utterly insignificant when they are put in the context of getting to two All Ireland finals in a row and pushing Dublin all the way in the SF the other two years.

He's far from perfect but has done well over his four years. Whether he's good enough to go the next step and turn Dublin over is an open question, but one that applies to the players also.

If he can get some of the talented youngsters operating at a good senior level next year it would be hard to have too many complaints.

Don't think I could sum it up better than that Keano. I am neither totally blinkered pro-Fitzmaurice, nor totally stone-minded anti-Fitz. The game 10 days ago sort of mirrored his reign - got a lot right, some good stuff and with a little more composure or luck COULD have won the game, but for 2/3 of the game, had huge systematic problems and ultimately fell a bit short in the end.
I think this boils down to the fact that while he is conservative, has made some baffling tactical and personnel errors in crunch games- Fitz staying on is a less risky option than any alternative. Jack is needed (and wants) to bring the 21s on next year and 2018. After that, it's a step down to any other candidate and some of the names I heard thrown around were quite frankly scary.

Fr Tod Umptious

buyer95 wrote: »

That comment there makes a mockery of your whole argument.

Dublin have had the best team in the country bar none since 2012. Kerry in that time have managed to win an All Ireland, make an All Ireland final and 2 semis. Kerry have been up against it every year, quite simply Dublin have the best team by a distance. If that's not good enough Páidí O Sé was right, Kerry people are fúcking animals.

League form is just one criticism of Fitzmaurice, not the primary, but it cannot be ignored either.

It could be argued that Fitzmaurice used the league to blood new players,but if that was the case why did so many veterans play v Dublin a few weeks back ?

And on that point was Fitzmaurices loyalty to the veterans a result of him being a contemporary of many of them, or was it because the alternative were just not good enough ?

And it's not a great reflection on the quality of managers around Kerry if people are happy to see Fitzmaurice keep the seat warm till Jack O' Connor comes back for a 3rd stint when the current u-21 crop are ready of senior.

brocbrocach

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

League form is just one criticism of Fitzmaurice, not the primary, but it cannot be ignored either.

It could be argued that Fitzmaurice used the league to blood new players,but if that was the case why did so many veterans play v Dublin a few weeks back ?

And on that point was Fitzmaurices loyalty to the veterans a result of him being a contemporary of many of them, or was it because the alternative were just not good enough ?

And it's not a great reflection on the quality of managers around Kerry if people are happy to see Fitzmaurice keep the seat warm till Jack O' Connor comes back for a 3rd stint when the current u-21 crop are ready of senior.

Who knows, there could be a players revolt ... that usually solves all the problems doesn't it?

Gary Gurney

The dust has settled since our loss to the dubs. Its time to think of the future of Kerry football.

Fitzmaurice has to go plain and simple. Hes blinded loyalty to the "golden generation" is holding us back. Fair enough the likes of Darran O sullivan, o mahoney, gooch, o se etc have been long standing and brilliant servants to the cause over the years but by christ they are nowhere near the players they used to be. I would be all for a cull of the panel beginning now and an introduction of some new fresh blood.

We should forget about winning anything over the next 3 years and just aim to blood in some new talent that will stand to us in the next few years. The game is gone ultra athletic and the likes of gooch are redundant in the modern game.

Players like gary sayers, con o mahoney , shane crowley (showing great form for stacks), shaun keane and his brother , all should seriously be looked at. I would play them in the pre league campaign and take it from there. Another fella who impressed me with his kick out strategy is a lad from annauscaul , guilfoyle i think hes name is conor his first name. He is a raw talent, if he could fill out a bit and improve his aerial prowess he is as good as any keeper in the county.

TITANIUM.

Gary Gurney wrote: »

The dust has settled since our loss to the dubs. Its time to think of the future of Kerry football.

Fitzmaurice has to go plain and simple. Hes blinded loyalty to the "golden generation" is holding us back. Fair enough the likes of Darran O sullivan, o mahoney, gooch, o se etc have been long standing and brilliant servants to the cause over the years but by christ they are nowhere near the players they used to be. I would be all for a cull of the panel beginning now and an introduction of some new fresh blood.

We should forget about winning anything over the next 3 years and just aim to blood in some new talent that will stand to us in the next few years. The game is gone ultra athletic and the likes of gooch are redundant in the modern game.

Players like gary sayers, con o mahoney , shane crowley (showing great form for stacks), shaun keane and his brother , all should seriously be looked at. I would play them in the pre league campaign and take it from there. Another fella who impressed me with his kick out strategy is a lad from annauscaul , guilfoyle i think hes name is conor his first name. He is a raw talent, if he could fill out a bit and improve his aerial prowess he is as good as any keeper in the county.

It's to late EF is already back in for 2 more years I believe,
On your point on the athletic nature of the modern game,why in the name of God was tommy walsh allowed to walk away. When you see star starting at midfield in an all ireland final against Dublin you'd have to wonder. It maddens me to see such a class player and athlete lying idle when we clearly need him.

duchalla

TITANIUM. wrote: »

It's to late EF is already back in for 2 more years I believe,
On your point on the athletic nature of the modern game,why in the name of God was tommy walsh allowed to walk away. When you see star starting at midfield in an all ireland final against Dublin you'd have to wonder. It maddens me to see such a class player and athlete lying idle when we clearly need him.

To be fair, Tommy doesnt seem to be the player that left in 2009. I think it was mentioned here before, but he suffered the same injury that ended Paul O'Connell's career. In the few games he's played for Kerry since coming home, he's running style seems unnatural and laboured, almost mechanical. I really hope I'm wrong, but I think we've seen the best of Tommy.

TITANIUM.

duchalla wrote: »

TITANIUM. wrote: »

It's to late EF is already back in for 2 more years I believe,
On your point on the athletic nature of the modern game,why in the name of God was tommy walsh allowed to walk away. When you see star starting at midfield in an all ireland final against Dublin you'd have to wonder. It maddens me to see such a class player and athlete lying idle when we clearly need him.

To be fair, Tommy doesnt seem to be the player that left in 2009. I think it was mentioned here before, but he suffered the same injury that ended Paul O'Connell's career. In the few games he's played for Kerry since coming home, he's running style seems unnatural and laboured, almost mechanical. I really hope I'm wrong, but I think we've seen the best of Tommy.

Probably past his best alright,
Would you say he's more mobile than Star.

Stoner

TITANIUM. wrote:

It's to late EF is already back in for 2 more years I believe, On your point on the athletic nature of the modern game,why in the name of God was tommy walsh allowed to walk away. When you see star starting at midfield in an all ireland final against Dublin you'd have to wonder. It maddens me to see such a class player and athlete lying idle when we clearly need him.

Has injuries not reduced Tommy to being the type of player now made redundant by the nature of the modern game.
That big lad Brendan O'Sullivan getting injured was a loss to kerry IMO. Big physical player could get around, mix it and score a point

cms88

Gary Gurney wrote: »

The dust has settled since our loss to the dubs. Its time to think of the future of Kerry football.

Fitzmaurice has to go plain and simple. Hes blinded loyalty to the "golden generation" is holding us back. Fair enough the likes of Darran O sullivan, o mahoney, gooch, o se etc have been long standing and brilliant servants to the cause over the years but by christ they are nowhere near the players they used to be. I would be all for a cull of the panel beginning now and an introduction of some new fresh blood.

We should forget about winning anything over the next 3 years and just aim to blood in some new talent that will stand to us in the next few years. The game is gone ultra athletic and the likes of gooch are redundant in the modern game.

Players like gary sayers, con o mahoney , shane crowley (showing great form for stacks), shaun keane and his brother , all should seriously be looked at. I would play them in the pre league campaign and take it from there. Another fella who impressed me with his kick out strategy is a lad from annauscaul , guilfoyle i think hes name is conor his first name. He is a raw talent, if he could fill out a bit and improve his aerial prowess he is as good as any keeper in the county.

While i agree new players are needed the likes of Gary Sayers isn't the answer. He'd be 28/29 now i would think

Kerrydude1981

Stoner wrote: »

Has injuries not reduced Tommy to being the type of player now made redundant by the nature of the modern game.
That big lad Brendan O'Sullivan getting injured was a loss to kerry IMO. Big physical player could get around, mix it and score a point

Ya Brendan O Sullivan was shaping up to having a good championship,would hope to see him starting next year,he would bring a lot to our midfield

duchalla

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Probably past his best alright,
Would you say he's more mobile than Star.

In my opinion, Star is/was probably more mobile. As a few others have alluded to, Brendie O'Sullivan was a bigger loss to Kerry this year than Tommy.

DDC1990

cms88 wrote:

While i agree new players are needed the likes of Gary Sayers isn't the answer. He'd be 28/29 now i would think

Also the lad who is apparently flying for the Stacks played for their B's in Division 5 as recently as the 26th of July and played no part of last weekend's game with the Crokes.

No idea on some of the other lads.

ciarriaithuaidh

Gary Gurney wrote: »

The dust has settled since our loss to the dubs. Its time to think of the future of Kerry football.

Fitzmaurice has to go plain and simple. Hes blinded loyalty to the "golden generation" is holding us back. Fair enough the likes of Darran O sullivan, o mahoney, gooch, o se etc have been long standing and brilliant servants to the cause over the years but by christ they are nowhere near the players they used to be. I would be all for a cull of the panel beginning now and an introduction of some new fresh blood.

We should forget about winning anything over the next 3 years and just aim to blood in some new talent that will stand to us in the next few years. The game is gone ultra athletic and the likes of gooch are redundant in the modern game.

Players like gary sayers, con o mahoney , shane crowley (showing great form for stacks), shaun keane and his brother , all should seriously be looked at. I would play them in the pre league campaign and take it from there. Another fella who impressed me with his kick out strategy is a lad from annauscaul , guilfoyle i think hes name is conor his first name. He is a raw talent, if he could fill out a bit and improve his aerial prowess he is as good as any keeper in the county.

Ok, firstly, I agree with you there should be a bit of a cull of panel, whether players decide to retire or not. I think O'Mahony, Donaghy and Marc are certainly in this bracket. They've been magnificent servants but are all well past their best. Gooch possibly in this bracket also. Donnacha Walsh looks to have dipped in terms of ability to operate at highest level. I disagree on Darran. He was injured early on in the Dublin game and was heavily strapped to start with so clearly not 100%. He still has a lot to offer IMO.
Still, there should be a changing of the guard of sorts anyway.

Who do you suggest to take the reins if Fitz is to go? In my view, he has made a few errors in selection and tactics in his reign and he can be painfully conservative, but with Jack sticking to u21/u20, he is still mile ahead of any available alternative.

Lastly, some of the names you mentioned as potential Kerry panelists are ridiculous to be quite frank. Shaun Keane doesn't have anywhere near the pace for that level. Conor Keane got thrown off the u21s this year for his poor attitude. He is a good player, but that doesn't bode well. Gary Sayers is a good player but not at this level. Shane Crowley from Stacks? - I assume you mean Shane O'Callaghan? Good player but too light for highest level. Conor Guilfoyle is a decent club keeper. Not up to this standard though. Never heard of the other lad you mentioned to be honest.

There is plenty talent available to come in from recent u21, minor and junior squads without thinking about it too much. The u21s next year will be very important to be honest.

Gary Gurney

DDC1990 wrote: »

Also the lad who is apparently flying for the Stacks played for their B's in Division 5 as recently as the 26th of July and played no part of last weekend's game with the Crokes.

No idea on some of the other lads.

From what i saw of the player in question he was head and shoulders above everyone on the field that given day. He reminded of a young dara o se in his pomp. The fact he cant get a run with the stacks seniors says enough about their set up. It is rotten from the core and resembles an old boys club where you get a game based upon who you know best within the club. Politics is alive and well within that club let me tell you.

I see a couple of posters here are agreeing on conor guilfoyle being a good club keeper. that is encouraging that posters here are in touch with the in form club players. If Guilfoyle was to commit to the inter county scene and not let other distractions de rail him id rate him above Kealy tbh. He has a kick out strategy apparently which stems from Iker Casillas's kickouts from the 2014 world cup campaign.

Another couple of names I want to mention are lads that have never played inter county but to me they are stand out for their clubs and that raw animal type of player is something we have lacked the last couple of seasons IMHO.
Eoin Rice of Fossa is a lad who has bundles of ability , he is playing sigerson this year and will be a key player for the skull and cross bones throughout the winter. I believe his fitness will obviously be questioned by a few here but his height and natural strenght are second to none.

Alan Horan of Mitchells is a lad iv seen from a young age and his playing style actually reminds me of a young mike frank russell. And that is some statement. Living in Dublin now and training with Judes of Templeogue Dublin, he cud be the missing ingredient in our attack that at times lacks a bit of intent and fellas that would ruffle you about. Donnacha walsh provided this and paul galvin befoe him but horan cud be the heir to walshs throne in the no12 jersey,. Apparently lording the gym work with Mcmanamon in the Judes gym, a rough in the diamond is what Id call him.

ciarriaithuaidh

Gary Gurney wrote: »

From what i saw of the player in question he was head and shoulders above everyone on the field that given day. He reminded of a young dara o se in his pomp. The fact he cant get a run with the stacks seniors says enough about their set up. It is rotten from the core and resembles an old boys club where you get a game based upon who you know best within the club. Politics is alive and well within that club let me tell you.

I see a couple of posters here are agreeing on conor guilfoyle being a good club keeper. that is encouraging that posters here are in touch with the in form club players. If Guilfoyle was to commit to the inter county scene and not let other distractions de rail him id rate him above Kealy tbh. He has a kick out strategy apparently which stems from Iker Casillas's kickouts from the 2014 world cup campaign.

Another couple of names I want to mention are lads that have never played inter county but to me they are stand out for their clubs and that raw animal type of player is something we have lacked the last couple of seasons IMHO.
Eoin Rice of Fossa is a lad who has bundles of ability , he is playing sigerson this year and will be a key player for the skull and cross bones throughout the winter. I believe his fitness will obviously be questioned by a few here but his height and natural strenght are second to none.

Alan Horan of Mitchells is a lad iv seen from a young age and his playing style actually reminds me of a young mike frank russell. And that is some statement. Living in Dublin now and training with Judes of Templeogue Dublin, he cud be the missing ingredient in our attack that at times lacks a bit of intent and fellas that would ruffle you about. Donnacha walsh provided this and paul galvin befoe him but horan cud be the heir to walshs throne in the no12 jersey,. Apparently lording the gym work with Mcmanamon in the Judes gym, a rough in the diamond is what Id call him.

I suspected you were a p*sstaker, but that just confirms it. Slow day in college in Cork is it?

D'Agger

Honestly, I prefer sticking to the Buffon method from 2006 - it's simpler and far more effective

PARlance

D'Agger wrote: »

Honestly, I prefer sticking to the Buffon method from 2006 - it's simpler and far more effective

Shane Curran perfected that Buffoon role.