Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

MayoAreMagic

Powerhouse wrote: »

In fairness I'm not sure he was implying that losses to Tyrone were Gooch's fault. Just that he did not stand out in those games and for the amount of coverage his exit got it might be expected that he would have been more effective on days that Kerry were on the backfoot. That would be the Brolly argument. An obvious corollary to your point about losses to Tyrone being "Gooch's fault" - what about the disproportionate praise he or any other high-scoring forward gets when the team wins well? It works both ways. If the losses are (and Tomas O Se clung to this argument) are the responsibility of the collective then what about the wins?

I agree that a free taker gets more praise than they should, but the thing is, that wasn't brolly's argument, since canavan was also a free taker... You seem to be substituting in your own personal opinions at times, but they aren't my focus to be honest with you, Im simply countering what brolly had to say. In reality brolly intimates a lot of things with the manner in which he makes a point. He will put words in people's mouths without saying it. His does this to Jack O'Shea in his article on the gooch, describing his own take on someone's actions or maybe what they didn't say, and generally setting a narrative with it. I believe the underlying message here was that if gooch was as good as canavan they would have won those all Ireland finals (even though tyrone actually lost in the 1995 game)

Powerhouse wrote: »

Your point about Canavan being the standout forward in '95 whereas Gooch was just one of a number of good forwards is a good one. Of course, the exact opposite argument can be made, that his life was easier in a better team and that Canavan had to do more to be effective as the main forward, but it's at least a good attempt at an argument.

If you compare their entire career, it does, but if you pick one game where the guy has a stormer and use that as the only mode of comparison the no it doesn't. That is simply brolly cherry picking what suits him. If his point was actually credible, he would be able to call on more than one game as an example.

Powerhouse wrote: »

In contract, Tomas O Se countered Brolly's claim that he never saw Gooch turn a game around for Kerry in adversity by saying he saw him do it about 200 times, yet when asked for an example he could not given even one. Not even one, from a claimed selection of 200. That's the sign of a man who knows what the conclusion of his argument is - backing the Kerry man no matter what - but cannot construct the actual argument to save his life.

Re tomas O'se's ability to construct an argument, Im not tomas O'se, so it makes no odds to my point re brolly.In fairness he was put on the spot on national tv. Id give him some leeway on that front. What is interesting though is brolly himself could only offer the one example for canavan, and he had all week to prepare his argument... Furthermore, he was quick to dismiss mayo and cork, (that same mayo team that dethroned tyrone as all Ireland champions). Yet there was no mention of the Dublin 1995 team that many have described as the worst ever team to win an all Ireland... A massive double standard and a huge hole in his argument.

Powerhouse wrote: »

In my view Brolly's views are challengeable not so much in the facts (Gooch for example did not threaten the goalposts in the last 30 minutes of the 2005 final) but in the context. When an entire team is struggling forwards struggle too. What were Gooch's scoring returns from play on those days? (Does Tomas O Se even know this despite being on television defending his honour?) Why not hold Peter Canavan's career up to the light similarly? Unfortunately that requires a level of rigorous thinking and rhetorical skill which Tomas O Se and Ciaran Whelan simply do not possess. Brolly easily moves between comparisons of teams and players, and playing styles. The others, by comparison, look like students who have crammed the night before and can talk ad infinitum on a very specific subject but not beyond that. They were lucky they had Lyster to help shout him down.

Well probably because they have little interest in picking holes peter canavan's career to counter a guy like brolly. Similarly, they aren't going to have those stats in their heads are they? And Im sure brolly was banking on that being the case. His points generally have some element of that in them, where you know it is wrong but you don't have it at hand to prove it. If they had access to google on the show they could dismiss 90% of brolly's opening gambits. As O'Se pointed out, brolly was calling canavan a cheat not long ago, so you would be foolish to pay any heed to him. Plus they weren't actually allowed to speak very much. Does Brolly get paid by the word or something?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Any one on here who's seen more of Kevin McCarthy than I have. Has he a functioning left leg?

He gave up a clear score yesterday by insisting on turning in on his right and was blocked down, in the second half i think.

MayoAreMagic

Powerhouse wrote: »

Sorry, just noticed this bit now. I think you are conflating my own views (which I have scarcely mentioned) with Joe Brolly's. I'm simply putting forward the case he did and pointing out the dearth of rational logical responses as distinct from name-calling and more subtle comments such as your own "don't want to sink to Brolly's level" - as if he has committed some heinous crime.

It is no harm to say Brolly's argument is littered with flaws, but why cannot someone in a position to do so point out those flaws? Tomas O Se is probably pulling good money from the Sunday Game, doing a column is a newspaper on the back of that and yet could not name one game * where Gooch pulled it out of the fire for Kerry though he claimed there was 200?

* Could he not have pointed out, for example, the goal he created for Declan O'Sullivan in the 2007 semi-final when Kerry won by just two points? That's the kind of thing I would have been citing - where he scored only a point from play yet influenced the game hugely (in my view), but then again you say I don't know what I am talking about.

I was pointing out that it was brolly who didn't know what he was talking about, not you...

RE sinking to his level, that is in the context of his argument, i.e. the logic used is hypocritical and lacks credibility.

Powerhouse

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Re tomas O'se's ability to construct an argument, Im not tomas O'se, so it makes no odds to my point re brolly.In fairness he was put on the spot on national tv. Id give him some leeway on that front.

I would give him no leeway. He said that Gooch won games for Kerry in adversity about 200 times, yet could not instance ONE. Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence but this was asking for just a sliver of evidence. He played on the same championship team in nearly every game Cooper played yet could not back up his crazy claim at the most miniscule level. If Brolly was banking on weak opposition on the panel he wasn't wrong.

P.S. I think you re getting too hung up on the 1995 Canavan reference. He was Footballer of the Year in 2003. Hardly one storming performance that was never backed up. (I am no apologist for Peter Canavan or anyone else but fair is fair.)

Powerhouse

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

As O'Se pointed out, brolly was calling canavan a cheat not long ago, so you would be foolish to pay any heed to him.

That was actually a rhetorically clever move by O Se. Find one negative comment (cheating) about a player he is championing even if it's completely unrelated to the substantive issue (ability and achievements) and let those already inclined towards a certain point of view draw their own conclusions.

I reckon Brolly would regard Sean Kavanagh as one of the best footballers he has seen in the last 20 years yet he was happy to slate him for dragging someone down against Monaghan a few years. There is no inconsistency there nor in the Canavan example either. It was just an O Se gambit to try to ridicule Brolly in lieu of any semblance of a rigorous well-argued case on the actual issue. But like I said O Se and Whelan simply are not at the same rhetorical level as Brolly.

munster87

Powerhouse. Just reading some of your posts, do you mind me asking what county you are from? Just curious, cheers.

Powerhouse

munster87 wrote: »

Powerhouse. Just reading some of your posts, do you mind me asking what county you are from? Just curious, cheers.

I think you are being a tad understated. You 'thanked' four posts which replied to me including one particularly craven one announcing he had reported me to the mods (when his own order for me to leave was ignored). I'd say "just curious" doesn't begin to describe it. You might be "just curious" about my favourite colour. This is quite different I think.

munster87

Powerhouse wrote: »

I think you are being a tad understated. You 'thanked' four posts which replied to me including one particularly craven one announcing he had reported me to the mods (when his own order for me to leave was ignored). I'd say "just curious" doesn't begin to describe it. You might be "just curious" about my favourite colour. This is quite different I think.

No just curious as I say. Thanks for the response either way.

Radio5

As a matter of interest the 2008 All Ireland semi-final replay v Cork is one game I can think of where Colm Cooper pulled Kerry's cause from the fire. It is often forgotten about now because Kerry didn't win the all Ireland that year.

The reality is that any of the panelists could have reeled off a list of games last night and Brolly would have taken not one bit of notice. He has his own agenda and he sticks to it no matter what he is said. He just keeps on talking and talking until the time is over.

I think one of his main points last night was the 'media' over-reaction to Colm's retirement which is a different discussion altogether to a footballing one. Maybe he should chat about that to his pals in the low key, non-sensationalist, always 100% correct with the facts Sunday Indo instead of wasting his time on TV.

On footballing matters, the performance of the younger players was for me the high point of yesterday. Well done to all.

Powerhouse

Powerhouse wrote: »

I think you are being a tad understated. You 'thanked' four posts which replied to me including one particularly craven one announcing he had reported me to the mods (when his own order for me to leave was ignored). I'd say "just curious" doesn't begin to describe it. You might be "just curious" about my favourite colour. This is quite different I think.

But...it's Dublin 15, right?

munster87

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But...it's Dublin 15, right?

That's why I'm curious, I don't think he's a dub originally

brocbrocach

2013 starting line up was:
Kealy; M O Se, Griffin, Enright; T O Se, Crowley, Fitzgerald; Maher, Buckley; Galvin, Cooper, Walsh; Darran O’Sullivan, Declan O’Sullivan, O’Donoghue.
Yesterday's line up:
B Kealy; F Fitzgerald, M Griffin, R Shanahan; P Crowley, T Morley, P Murphy; D Moran, J Barry; J Lyne, M Geaney, D Walsh; K McCarthy, P Geaney, J Savage.

Only 5 of the 2013 team starting. To be fair 3 or 4 more more would be in with a shout to start too in the championship, James, Buckley, Enright, Darran, Maher.

ShamoBuc

This used to be a very informative thread, but it's a bit off the wall in the last 24hrs.

brocbrocach

brocbrocach wrote: »

Only 5 of the 2013 team starting. To be fair 3 or 4 more more would be in with a shout to start too in the championship, James, Buckley, Enright, Darran, Maher.

Was scanning that a couple of times thinking "where's O'Donoghue"!

jimmytwotimes 2013

Minor match on Wednesday v. Clare, looking forward to it. Four of last year's minors on the team so good turnover of players.

I know management have called in lots of players to have a look at them in training so no stone has been left unturned.

Diarmuid O'Connor and obviously Clifford again be worth a look.

DDC1990

East Kerry v Rathmore


Austin Stacks v St Kierans


West Kerry v Feale Rgs



Killarney Legion v Kenmare Shamrocks


Qualifier Winner v Kilcummin


Kerins O’Rahillys v South Kerry



Kenmare District. v Dingle


Dr Crokes v Mid Kerry

Championship draw made tonight.

Looks like all the big guns have been kept apart.

Funny seeing Kenmare and Kenmare District as two separate teams.

Qualifier is between St. Brendans and Shannon Rangers on May 6th

wonga77

Kenmare district is going to be Templenoe basically?
Kilcummin play the winner of which game?

DDC1990

wonga77 wrote: »

Kenmare district is going to be Templenoe basically?
Kilcummin play the winner of which game?

The Qualifier: St.Brendans v Shannon Rangers.

Kenmare district will be Templenoe, Tousist and Kilgarvan. So 13+ Templenoe lads.

If Templenoe win the Intermediate Championship this year, what will they do?

Shurimgreat

All great players go missing in the occassional game. Gooch might have under performed in a handful of games but was brilliant in the vast number he played in.

It was said of Mick O'Connell that he could be brilliant or anonymous depending on his mood and he failed to perform in a few games against Galway in the mid 60s. Still among the finest ever to wear the jersey.

If I had to pick a best 15 of the last 20 years Gooch would be one of the first names on the sheet. It pains me to say that as a Mayo supporter but sometimes you have to tip your cap to a genius which undoubtedly he was. His goal against Mayo in 2011 was worth the entrance fee alone. Its safe to say only he could have scored that goal and he had an almost unique ability to make and score goals from nothing.

DDC1990

DDC1990 wrote: »

The Qualifier: St.Brendans v Shannon Rangers.

Kenmare district will be Templenoe, Tousist and Kilgarvan. So 13+ Templenoe lads.

If Templenoe win the Intermediate Championship this year, what will they do?

Not sure about 13, but reckon Kenmare District will field at least 10 Templenoe players. A far cry from when they were playing in the lower divisions a decade ago, surely one of the most remarkable turn arounds by any club in the country. And they play a great brand of attractive football too.

evolving tipperary

Powerhouse wrote: »

Again that's a pub line designed to get a big 'yahoo' from those looking on. Has no intellectual merit and means fcuk all in the context of the discussion of the merits of a specific player. Only someone desperately waiting for someone to say something, anything, to "shut the cnut up" would think such a bland cliche "destroyed Brolly". Lyster should have kept his mouth shut and we might have only thought he was incapable of original thoughts.

Pub line? Who yahoos in this day and age? High-stool smirks? What happened to you in this pub? Were they not gentle?

Did you even watch the debate?

That's nonsense. It was a very direct and cogent point. The discussion was about Cooper and his class as a player - recognizing a player of immense talent who had just ended his career. LYSTER summed up succinctly in one line - the nature of overrating players like Brolly. And, how an inferior player like Brolly, in comparison, could criticize a player like Cooper for not showing up in three games in his opinion. Laughable. He nailed him. Lyster tried to steer him on point and Brolly just wanted to talk about three games when he could have discussed 8 all-stars and 5 ALL-IREs.

As both Whelan and O'Shea pointed out, Cooper was not responsible for the entire Kerry display. He was just a part of it. And, the point was made the inside line suffers most in terms of possession when a team is outplayed out the field. Simple and to the point points. Also, O'Shea said Cooper pulled them out of the fire more times than he could remember...- another simple and cogent point. An important factor to television debate is clarity...

Cooper was a class inside forward who reinvented himself as a top-class half-line forward. He outscored and outplayed most of the players of his generation over a long career of 15 years. Any player Brolly tried to highlight as a having a superior grit was an inferior player to Cooper...quite simply.

It wasn't about Tyrone or Brolly. Brolly tried to make it about Brolly. He had nothing to say, except point to irrelevant negatives. Then pretend that negativity is critical thinking. Talk about misunderstanding critical thinking - it's about balance and objectivity. Cooper was involved in three losing games - ohhhhhhhh noooooo...

If the garrulous nature of Brolly's argumentative style - making many incoherent and irrelevant points to mask a jaded bitterness - turns you on then fine. But, it's not for me...it just doesn't have any logic to it. Other than satisfying a neurotic addiction to seeking attention through negativity. I'm sure he gets a few quid for it...happy days.

'Only someone desperately waiting for someone to say something, anything, to "shut the cnut up" would think such a bland cliche "destroyed Brolly".

Now, you know what other people think... - well, it did destroy him. He had no response, other than a meandering and aimless point that went nowhere. So much so, that his penchant for nonstop talking, led to Whelan telling him to shut up. Twice...

You should watch it before you make a comment. Brolly should listen then he'd know what the discussion is about...rather than what he wants to talk about...a bit like yourself. Birds of a feather and all that...

Noddyholder

Joe Brolly

April 9 2017 6:00 PM
When someone like Colm Cooper retires we tend to lose the run ourselves. It is easy to be swept away in the sentimental avalanche. It is a bit like the death of Lady Di. Any criticisms may cause a hysterical reaction. Even if you hadn't heard of her, she was "the People's Princess" (Tony Blair) and it would be downright unpatriotic not to weep publicly.



So, there is a temptation with Gooch to sit down and write the usual stuff: poets should write poems about him; painters should paint his likeness on every wall; sculptors should stop what they are doing and fashion a statue of him in every town and village in the land; dark-haired seductresses should bear his babies, etc, etc.


The media likes superlatives. "Was he the greatest that ever played?" Sean O'Rourke asked Jack O'Shea on Morning Ireland on Tuesday. Jacko, who has seen a few great footballers in his time, wouldn't be drawn.

What is certain is that Colm was the ultimate purveyor of skill. Go on the web and watch some of his goals in the Kerry championship. In one game (get it on YouTube at 'Colm Cooper goal v Kenmare 2010'), the goalie leaves his line to deliver a hand-pass to the corner-back. The corner-back is almost intercepted and fouls his man. A free is awarded to Crokes 30 yards out.


Cooper, having clocked the situation, grabs the ball. The danger suddenly dawns on the portly goalie, who back-pedals furiously towards his line. There was very little room for a lob, but this was Cooper. As the keeper looks up in desperation, the ball swoops over him and down into the net. The lads hanging over the wire burst out laughing at the audacity of it. "Eat your heart out Mikey Sheehy," says one.

He was like a computer animated footballer. Perfect balance. Perfect skills. Left foot, right foot. A perfect understanding of space and time. When he came into the Kerry team he immediately prompted oohs and aahs and laughter as he bewildered lesser opponents and seemed to score with every chance.


His goal finishing was without doubt the best I have seen. The keeper was as useful as a blow-up doll as Cooper advanced. He was a thing of beauty and, as any student of poetry will tell you, that is a joy forever.

But, as I have often pointed out, he wasn't a leader in the mould of Peter Canavan or Trevor Giles or Colm O'Rourke. He didn't have that warrior spirit needed to turn games around when they are going against your team, unlike say Henry Downey or Michael Darragh Macauley or Wee James McCartan. Or Jacko or Mikey Sheehy or the Bomber Liston. And in the white heat of battle, against serious teams, he was largely anonymous.


In 2004 he won his first All-Ireland against a terrified Mayo team that were totally out of their depth. Kerry feasted upon them from start to finish. Never has riot been run with such abandon. In 2006, they got good old Mayo again. Still terrified. As Mayo shook in their boots, the Kerry boys did their Harlem Globetrotters routine and Colm showed his magic under absolutely no pressure. The final score? 4-15 to 3-5. Only the 13 points so.

In 2007, they got Cork, Mayo's Munster cousins and it was another 70 minutes of unbridled one-way fun: 3-13 to 1-9. A ten-point win and Cork were flattered. Two years later in 2009, it was Cork again, self-destructing.


In these games, Gooch looked great. He was able to show all his dazzling skills under no pressure against heavily over-matched opponents. But between 2009 and his retirement, the rest got serious. Kerry have won just one All-Ireland since, in 2014, when Colm was out with a serious knee injury.

The inability to lead his team in adversity is not hard to illustrate. In the 2002 final, Kerry lost by a point in the face of a ferocious Armagh second-half comeback. Colm was lively in the first half and disappeared in the second. In the 2003 semi-final v Tyrone? Utterly anonymous in the face of another ferocious Ulster onslaught. Watch the game for yourself.


The 2005 final v Tyrone? A lively first ten minutes, then he disappeared. Kerry needed a leader to turn things around in the second half, but Darragh and Tomás Ó Sé couldn't do it on their own. Instead, Peter Canavan highlighted the difference between himself and Cooper. Canavan, the other great skill merchant of that era, led Tyrone to an emphatic victory, battling all over the field, inspiring his troops and scoring the crucial goal.

Colm, meanwhile, remained in Ryan McMenamin's shadow. After another few years walloping frightened Mayo and Cork teams in September, it was back to reality in 2008. Tyrone went for it again with their normal ferocity. No fear with those boys. No standing back admiring skilled forwards. Yet again, Colm made no impact and Tyrone crushed them. By 2011, Pat Gilroy had stiffened Dublin's sinew and they were no longer Mayo's Leinster cousins. Again, Colm made no impact when it mattered and again Kerry lost.


In 2012, Kerry met Donegal in the quarter-final. The previous weekend, Pat Spillane had taken me to task on The Sunday Game about my critique of Gooch in a newspaper column that morning, where I had made exactly the same point I make today. I said on TV that I expected him to have nil impact against Donegal. The exchange became heated. Pat was upset. The truth can be inconvenient.

The following Sunday, the spat fresh in the public mind, I had to run the gauntlet on the way into Croke Park. Walking the mile or so to the stadium from Kavanagh's pub, my son Rory kept grabbing my arm and saying, "Don't stop daddy, keep going."


When we reached the park, we suddenly found ourselves walking towards the entire Kerry minor squad. I spotted their joint-managers, quicksilver attacker Mickey Ned and legendary full-back John O'Keeffe, still looking like Captain America.

Then the players spotted me. Someone roared "It's Joe Brolly" and a chant started to swell from nowhere, like those impromptu chants that break out on the terraces at Parkhead or Anfield. "Gooch, Gooch, Gooch, Gooch, Gooch, Gooch," they chorused, creating a wall of sound like a thousand angry baboons. Throngs of Kerry supporters all around joined in. As the intensity increased, Rory was pulling my arm frantically. "Let's go daddy, please, let's get out of here." "Stand your ground son," I said to him.

I blew kisses to them. Then I signalled them to quieten down, waving them to silence with two hands. "Lads," I shouted, "I'll see you all here back at this exact spot at half-past five. We'll reflect on how Gooch got on today." As we ploughed through them, the chant resumed, becoming almost deafening. "Gooch, Gooch, Gooch, Gooch, Gooch, Gooch." When we got to our seats, Rory's face was shining with excitement. "Jesus, daddy," he said. "Is it like this every week?" Donegal broke Kerry that day, and Colm simply wasn't able to help. At half-past five, I went back and stood in exactly the same spot. No-one showed up. "They're not singing anymore," I sang quietly to Rory, who burst out laughing.


Gooch had a delightful first half against Dublin in 2013 when he was mismatched with the ponderous Ger Brennan and was able to run through his repertoire. But at half-time that was remedied. Cian O'Sullivan picked him up in the second half, and marked him tightly. Again, come business time, Colm was anonymous. Dublin absolutely dominated the final quarter to win by seven. Coming down the stretch, when it really mattered, he wasn't there. In the 2015 final, I can barely remember him. Save for his forlorn expression as the game unfolded and the fact that Philly McMahon outscored him. Last year, again, he was unable to help when the Dubs went for it. He just isn't that sort of player.

Great players are judged by different standards than the rest of us. Colm was a wizard on the field. A pure delight to watch, often provoking laughter and incredulity with his skills. But he wasn't a Peter Canavan. He just didn't have that sort of personality. He didn't have that refusal to accept defeat, that insatiable drive that marks out the greats.

In 1995, when Canavan almost single-handedly drove Tyrone to an All-Ireland (they were very unfortunate to lose the final by a point), the joke was born: "What's the difference between Peter Canavan and a black taxi? A black taxi only carries seven." Is it a joke if it's true?


Canavan, like all truly great players, was a leader of men. Someone who refused to accept defeat. Someone who battled to the end. Someone who thrived in adversity and regularly turned games around from losing positions. It is a simple truth that Colm was not that sort of player. When the going got tough, he didn't.

What he was, was the most skilful player I ever saw. And the most perfect finisher. But he is not the greatest. Not by a long shot. Not unless helping to beat up star-struck Mayo and Cork teams counts.

Sunday Indo Sport

That's what he said in full.

Radio5

Diana Princess of Wales was I believe the correct style and title of the lady who died in 1997. Very shoddy writing from such a professional. Really losing the run of himself there i his sentimental avalanche....

PARlance

It's a "with the greatest respect,...." type bs article. No good ever comes after that intro. Afew compliments are required before he can get to his goal and stick the knife in, the blood being the attention he craves.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Did you even watch the debate?

The funniest point is when Brolly, who has difficulty in containing the theatrics, the head shakes and interruptions, is muttering about "the death of Lady Di" in the background. Even he himself knows he's losing at that stage and scraping the barrel in debate.

Kerrydude1981

The Kerry Minor Football Team to play Clare in the Electric Ireland Munster Minor Football Championship Quarter Final at Austin Stack Park on Wednesday evening contains just 4 of the side who played in the All Ireland Minor Final last year – Michael Potts, Diarmuid O’Connor, Brian Friel and David Clifford.

Potts, together with Chris O’Donoghue, Sean O’Leary and Donnchadh O’Sullivan, were members of the St Brendans College Hogan Cup winning side this year.

The team, captained by David Clifford is as follows:



Deividas Uosis Dingle

Ryan O’Neill Na Gaeil

Chris O’Donoghue Glenflesk

Sean O’Leary Kilcummin

Michael Potts Dr. Crokes

Eddie Horan Scartaglen

Patrick Warren Gneeveguilla

Barry Mahony St. Senans

Diarmuid O’Connor Na Gaeil

Adam Donoghue Castleisland

Brian Friel Rathmore

Fiáchra Clifford Laune Rangers

Donchadh O’Sullivan Firies

David Clifford (C) Fossa

Donal O’Sullivan Kilgarvan



Fir Ionaid:



Nelu O’Doherty Dr. Crokes

Ciarán O’Reilly Austin Stacks

Niall Donohue Firies

Michael Slattery Austin Stacks

Michael O’Leary Renard

Jack Griffin Dr. Crokes

Dylan Casey Austin Stacks

Cathal Ferriter Annascaul

Mark Ashe Dingle





Bainistíocht:

Bainisteoir: Peter Keane (St Marys)

Treanalaí: Chris Flannery and Padraig Murphy

Roghnoirí: Tommy Griffin (Dingle), James Foley (Kilcummin)



Additional Players on the Kerry Minor Panel

Ciaran Kennedy (Beaufort), Eddie Browne (Listowel Emmets), Ruadhan McCarthy (Dingle), Luka Brosnan (Castleisland Desmonds), Sean O’Connell (Cordal).

Rehabbing from Injury: Cian Gammell (Killarney Legion) & Cian O’Callaghan (Firies)

brocbrocach

Powerhouse wrote: »

That was actually a rhetorically clever move by O Se. Find one negative comment (cheating) about a player he is championing even if it's completely unrelated to the substantive issue (ability and achievements) and let those already inclined towards a certain point of view draw their own conclusions.

I reckon Brolly would regard Sean Kavanagh as one of the best footballers he has seen in the last 20 years yet he was happy to slate him for dragging someone down against Monaghan a few years. There is no inconsistency there nor in the Canavan example either. It was just an O Se gambit to try to ridicule Brolly in lieu of any semblance of a rigorous well-argued case on the actual issue. But like I said O Se and Whelan simply are not at the same rhetorical level as Brolly.

I think he answered you in full with this one:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-and-son-fire-back-at-joe-brolly-over-colm-cooper-criticism-35613345.html

Boom!
Ó Sé 1, Brolly 0.

downthemiddle

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The Kerry Minor Football Team to play Clare in the Electric Ireland Munster Minor Football Championship Quarter Final at Austin Stack Park on Wednesday evening contains just 4 of the side who played in the All Ireland Minor Final last year – Michael Potts, Diarmuid O’Connor, Brian Friel and David Clifford.

Potts, together with Chris O’Donoghue, Sean O’Leary and Donnchadh O’Sullivan, were members of the St Brendans College Hogan Cup winning side this year.

The team, captained by David Clifford is as follows:



Deividas Uosis Dingle

Ryan O’Neill Na Gaeil

Chris O’Donoghue Glenflesk

Sean O’Leary Kilcummin

Michael Potts Dr. Crokes

Eddie Horan Scartaglen

Patrick Warren Gneeveguilla

Barry Mahony St. Senans

Diarmuid O’Connor Na Gaeil

Adam Donoghue Castleisland

Brian Friel Rathmore

Fiáchra Clifford Laune Rangers

Donchadh O’Sullivan Firies

David Clifford (C) Fossa

Donal O’Sullivan Kilgarvan



Fir Ionaid:



Nelu O’Doherty Dr. Crokes

Ciarán O’Reilly Austin Stacks

Niall Donohue Firies

Michael Slattery Austin Stacks

Michael O’Leary Renard

Jack Griffin Dr. Crokes

Dylan Casey Austin Stacks

Cathal Ferriter Annascaul

Mark Ashe Dingle





Bainistíocht:

Bainisteoir: Peter Keane (St Marys)

Treanalaí: Chris Flannery and Padraig Murphy

Roghnoirí: Tommy Griffin (Dingle), James Foley (Kilcummin)



Additional Players on the Kerry Minor Panel

Ciaran Kennedy (Beaufort), Eddie Browne (Listowel Emmets), Ruadhan McCarthy (Dingle), Luka Brosnan (Castleisland Desmonds), Sean O’Connell (Cordal).

Rehabbing from Injury: Cian Gammell (Killarney Legion) & Cian O’Callaghan (Firies)

Deividas, Nelu, Ruadhan, Luka and not a Paidi or PatJo in sight. Kerry football is on a slippery slope.

Kerrydude1981

Sad to hear the passing of Kerry's kit man and the main man in Austin Stack Park,Vincent Linnane

Few tributes below from the County Board chairman Tim Murphy,Eamon Fitzmaurice and Niall Botty O Callaghan



It was with great sadness that we learned of Vince Linnane's death earlier this afternoon.

A legendary figure who has been associated with successive Kerry Senior Football teams, Vince's personality transcended age groups and he was loved by players and management alike.

He will forever be associated with Austin Stack Park, Tralee which held a very special place in his life and he took great personal satisfaction and joy out of its recent redevelopment.

On behalf of all involved in Kerry GAA I wish to recognise and acknowledge the contribution that Vince has made. We extend our heartfelt sympathy to his wife and family in particular.

Vince - you were a true and genuine friend and will be sadly missed by all who knew you.

Ar dheis De do raibh a anam dilis

Tim Murphy

Cathaoirleach Coiste Co. Chiarrai­ CLG



Statement by Eamonn Fitzmaurice

On behalf of the management and players I want to extend my sincere condolences to the Linnane family on the passing of Vince today. We are all shocked and saddened at the news.

He was a huge part of our setup. He has been an incredible servant to Kerry both in his role as caretaker of Austin Stack Park and as our Kit-man. He took ferocious pride in his work and always wanted to make sure the players were happy and wanted for nothing. His attention to detail was incredible.

He was the heart and soul of Austin Stack Park and loved working there. He really enjoyed the reopening last year. I asked him to present the jerseys to the players and to say a few words before that league game against Donegal. I knew what it would mean to him. I also knew that because of the esteem that the players held him in they would want to win the first game there for Vince which they duly did.

On a personal level there has always been a very strong connection as he always really looked out for his fellow north Kerry men. I first got to know him as a minor and since then we have been firm friends. He was delighted last Sunday and took great satisfaction out of his last trip to Croke Park. We will all miss him greatly.

Ar dheis De go raibh a anam.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice, Kerry Senior Football Team Manager.





PAYING TRIBUTE TO THE KIT-MAN



The following tribute to Vincent Linnane was penned by Eoghan Cormican of the Irish Examiner for the booklet Kerry's Magnificent 7" celebrating Kerry's 7 All Ireland Titles between 1997 and 2014



Niall 'Botty' O'Callaghan remembers fondly the afternoon of the 2006 All-Ireland SFC final.

A passenger in the Kerry kit van, himself and Vincent Linnane, the latter a native of Kiltimagh, rolled onto the long tunnel underneath the Hogan Stand. The dressing-rooms in Croke Park are distributed in alphabetical order and so for the day that was in it, Kerry were given dressing-room one and dressing-room two went to Mayo.

"Vince drove right past the Kerry dressing room and parked outside the Mayo dressing room. He then went to start unloading the gear,†O'Callaghan recalls.

'Hey, where are you going, you're with Kerry today,' I said to him"

The van was duly put in reverse and dressing-room one was quickly filled with jerseys of a green and gold variety.

It was a rare slip by a man who has spent close to a quarter of a century laying out the jerseys for various Kerry teams.

Having spent a season or two as kit man to the Kerry minor hurlers in the early nineties, Linnane's first involvement with the Kingdom footballers came in 1993 when then minor manager Charlie Nelligan brought him on board. His brief soon expanded to the U21's, juniors and, eventually, the seniors.

O'Callaghan has worked with him for the past 10 years and describes Linnane as an absolute inspiration.

"For matches which require an overnight stay, Vince and I would be in the one room. And the jerseys are always brought up to the hotel room. They are never, ever left in the van. He counts them the evening before the game and you might then hear him at six in the morning counting them again. I often have to tell him to count in silence so I can finish off my night's sleep!

"He is so meticulous"

Linnane, when asked to trawl back through his long involvement with the Kingdom, picks out the 2008 All-Ireland SFC quarter-final against Galway.

It was an absolutely desperate evening and if we hadn't had the second set of jerseys that evening, we'd have been in trouble. Normally, the second set would be thrown on at half-time if the weather was very bad, but, on this occasion, they were put on before the throw-in as the players were drenched during the warm-up. We probably could have done with a third set, now that I think of it.â€

Before ever being entrusted with the green and gold jerseys, Linnane, in 1989, was approached by then county board secretary Tony O'Keeffe with a view to overseeing a FÃS scheme at Austin Stack Park. Three decades on and he is still calling the shots at the Tralee venue.

“I moved to Manchester as a young lad and met my wife, Noreen, over there. I came back to Ballyduff with her where I got involved with the local GAA club.â€

Between his two roles, Linnane has seen several Kerry managers come and go, had the inside track on many a heated training session and made friends with some of the best footballers to ever wear the green and gold.

"It was a privilege to be involved with them all. They were all very genuine people. You never saw them shouting or bawling or anything like that. They all had Kerry at their heart.

Eamonn is there presently and you couldn't meet nicer. He is very dedicated, just as Jack [O Connor] and Pat [O Shea] were before him. The biggest character of the lot was my old friend Paidi­. I always had the craic with Paidi. He would come out with something totally unexpected. He'd hit you with a one-liner and you wouldnt know what to say back. He was a character.

"I always had great conversations with Maurice Fitzgerald, he wasnt as quiet as most thought. Seamus Moynihan, the three O Se's and Declan O'Sullivan, too, were very easy get on with. I'm privileged to be able to call them my friends."

He concluded: I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing for all this time if I wasn't enjoying it. I'll stay at it as long as the Lord lets me.

An Ciarraioch

downthemiddle wrote: »

Deividas, Nelu, Ruadhan, Luka and not a Paidi or PatJo in sight. Kerry football is on a slippery slope.

Not forgetting Stefan Okunbor in last year's panel.