Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

jimmytwotimes 2013

Check back next week, discussion about match to follow.

Kerrydude1981

The thing I would question is why the players seemed so slow,sluggish and flat

I was watching the highlights of last years game against the Dubs last Friday night on TG4 and looking back at that game and the way the team played last Saturday,last years team was away ahead fitness wise,

danganabu

Amprodude wrote: »

Tomas O Se justifying Donaghey red was nothing saying aidan o ae was stamping on his foot and giving out about the ref. Poor call by him the green and gold tainted glasses on Tomas there. Kerry I thought were very scrappy at the start of the game trying to rough up the Mayo boys. Unfortunately for them Mayo the class team that they are had other ideas. They were more than 5 points a better team than Kerry.

Obviously no justifying what Donaghy did and I'm sure he knows himself that he let himself down badly but one thing I would agree with O'Se on was that especially in the first half I thought a hell of a lot of 50/50 calls went in Mayo's favour. And yes they were the better team and would have won anyway.

Same As

Finally brought myself to come onto the thread looking for some match analysis from Saturday, 4 pages later and all I'm reading is horsesh*t arguments.

Can we go back on topic?

Prop Joe

Fitz has to go,New manager to be brought in and all this bull about Jack holding off for another few years has to stop,If he wants the gig give it to him,If not put the new man in place for a 4 year term.

Most importantly is the players need to be seen more with their clubs,The vice like grip Fitzmaurice has on the county CCC has to be done away with.

The Sean O Sé debacle should of been grounds for his dismissal

Mr. Incognito

I've not had the heart to rewatch the game.

1. Playing with a sweeper was a bold bold move. If we had won he'd be a genius. But sacrificing JOD for it was too far. Kerry are a team of forwards. We were never had a defensive mindset. It permiated throughout the team. Paul Murphy totally nullified Lee Keegan the first day and was wasted in the sweeper role, the reason is that Dublin and Mayo punish you by moving runners into space. A spare man operating in the space might as well be a roundabout. They are simply passed around.

2. This had a huge effect on the Kerry players psyche. They fell apart after the first goal and went hunting for goals instead of calmly taking their points.

3. We are weak at 3 and 6 because our 3 likes to bomb forward and leaves space behind. A simple chat with Griffin to say, sit boo-boo, sit and let crowley carry the ball out of Defence and we would be fine.

4. The ref. I know it seems like sour grapes but Jesus he was terrible. Awful. As bad as I have ever seen. He was consistently shocking for both teams and seems to love to stop the play, brandish a card, get his ridiulous hair cut on the telly and then micromanage the next thirty seconds before he blows the whistle again. He wound Kerry up. And considering this is the same clown that missed the Dublin challenge by Kevin Mc in last years semi final it really should be the death knell for this guy. Kerry should simply refuse to play if he is the official. He's not up to this level. At all.

5. We missed the extra man up front. Mayo were tracking back and packing the Defence and AOS was back there to stop us kicking it over them. Playing a sweeper was probably the WORST tactic we could have picked. Kerry went two goals down last week and slowly worked their way back into the game and calmly took their changes. I've never seen a Kerry team actually panic as much. The manager lead the paniced charge with inconsistent and too many substitutions looking for anything that may work without the patience to allow anything to work.

6. Fitz is a great manager. He has brought on the players. No one can ever get it right all the time and I'm sure after that pasting he will not be trying any sweeper stupidity for quite some time. Re-organise the Defensive structure. Dont drop in one of our best players in no mans land where he is ineffictive and worst allows Lee Keegan off the shackles.

Mayo got the benefit of the ref yesterday. We got it in 2014.

Its not good enough and the GAA need to bring consistency to the game or its going to turn people off.

wonga77

Prop Joe wrote: »

Fitz has to go,New manager to be brought in and all this bull about Jack holding off for another few years has to stop,If he wants the gig give it to him,If not put the new man in place for a 4 year term.

Most importantly is the players need to be seen more with their clubs,The vice like grip Fitzmaurice has on the county CCC has to be done away with.

The Sean O Sé debacle should of been grounds for his dismissal

This 1000%. If players were left play away with the club then things would be so much better. One of the brighter spots about Kerry losing the last day is that club football can get back on track again.
Last round of county league next sunday and most county players still havent kicked a ball for their clubs in the league. Must be frustrating for clubs already relegated

Bass Reeves

Deleted User wrote: »

Would be wary about introducing him too soon and heaping the whole pressure of "next best thing" on him. It looks like he has it all, but it's such a huge jump from minor to senior, bypassing u21s...I'd be more for very careful cultivation. Maybe we should focus on seeing if the likes of Killian Spillane and others who passed through minors in previous years can cut it, bringing in Gavin Crowley and Sean O'Shea (albeit he's still on the young side too)...

We seem to be gone very slow in Kerry to introduce young players into the intercounty team. Look at the way Dublin and Tyrone have thrown in 19 and 20 year olds. Over the last 6-10 years we seem to have wanted younger players to serve too long an apprenticeship. Too many older player's warming a seat on the bench instead of a younger player chomping at the bit to make the team. We then seem to lose them. BJK is now in his late twenties, a good servant but he has never started a game at the business end of the championship, for the last 3-4 years BS has been holding a position on the bench to be popped on to take a few long range frees.

Before that MOS and TOS spend two years longer on the panel than they should. Management need to be more ruthless and cull older players earlier and use the bench to blood new players. JL has spend 3+ years on the bench he is either good enough or keeping a seat warm use him or get rid of him. How come when SE was getting such a roasting from AM we did not seem to have a back capable of coming on to release either Crowley or Murphy to mark AM.

I am not sure about Morley at centerback. I think Crowley brings much more to that position. Would Morley be better at FB. Players like O'Beaghaoich, Gavin Crowley, Tom O 'Sullivan, Gavin White and Adrian Spillane have to be thrown in at the deep end, same with the Goalkeeper position we cannot go through another season with a K between the sticks. Up front even if Donoghy is good enough for another 1-2 years can we afford to carry him for that long rather than blooding a younger replacement. The same with DOS, I feel sorry for DW a great servant but age is against him as well. AM is too slow to play in the middle of the field and again it would be wrong to allow him to warm a seat for a few years before retiring. Over the last 4+ years we seem to have developed a situation where on match day we have 5-6 older player's on the match day panel. When push came to shove last week we had too few new players that we could start. As well this led to the situation where we seem to have no replacement for what seems are some very average backs.

In a county like Kerry we should have no issues finding them. Forwards might be a problem now and again but coaching good stoppers not as hard

JohnBoy26

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

6. Fitz is a great manager. He has brought on the players. No one can ever get it right all the time and I'm sure after that pasting he will not be trying any sweeper stupidity for quite some time. Re-organise the Defensive structure. Dont drop in one of our best players in no mans land where he is ineffictive and worst allows Lee Keegan off the shackles.

Mayo got the benefit of the ref yesterday. We got it in 2014.

Is fitzmaurice really a great manager though? Don't get me wrong 5 munster titles, 1 all ireland and 1nfl is a good achievement but to me he has been poor enough on the sideline taking off the wrong players at vital times and has been too stubborn sticking with the same players all the time and not bringing fresh blood into the team, or at least not enough of it.

Regarding the ref, I always thought he was terrible, constantly nit picking, blowing up for silly things not leaving the game flow and missing glaring fouls.

But lets be honest he wasn't at fault for kerry's loss the last day. In truth mayo were miles ahead of kerry and should of really won it the first day out.

Kerry were very flat on both days and had a lack of flair in their play that they usually have at this stage of the championship.

Doltanian

Would there anything to be said for bringing back Jack O'Connor again?

Bass Reeves

Doltanian wrote: »

Would there anything to be said for bringing back Jack O'Connor again?

I am not really sure. Jack was loyal to older players as well. He bough back Eoin Brosnan for the 2011 championship and did not start Enright or bring him on when we were under pressure in defence. He will be six years away from championship football in real terms. Not sure if he is the man.We need a new broom but from where I do not know

cms88

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am not really sure. Jack was loyal to older players as well. He bough back Eoin Brosnan for the 2011 championship and did not start Enright or bring him on when we were under pressure in defence. He will be six years away from championship football in real terms. Not sure if he is the man.We need a new broom but from where I do not know

The only thing is there won't be any or too many older players this time for him to bring back. Plus he'll have worked with most of the minor and U21 players from the last few years

Jippo

Amprodude wrote: »

Tomas O Se justifying Donaghey red was nothing saying aidan o ae was stamping on his foot and giving out about the ref. Poor call by him the green and gold tainted glasses on Tomas there.

They were more than 5 points a better team than Kerry.

TÓS was explaining not excusing (KD should have pushed him instead of punching).

Agreed on the second point: a ref that let the game develop a lot more would have seen Mayo score more imo.

The_Honeybadger

Amprodude wrote: »

Tomas O Se justifying Donaghey red was nothing saying aidan o ae was stamping on his foot and giving out about the ref. Poor call by him the green and gold tainted glasses on Tomas there. Kerry I thought were very scrappy at the start of the game trying to rough up the Mayo boys. Unfortunately for them Mayo the class team that they are had other ideas. They were more than 5 points a better team than Kerry.

I watched TSG and I didn't feel he was trying to justify it, he showed why it happened and was actually saying it was a crazy reaction but I think Cahill cut him off. It was indefensible in fairness.

shockframe

Speaking as a neutral I reckon Fitzmaurice has done fairly well with what is comfortably the weakest Kerry team of the Live TV era.

He's not the brilliant tactical mastermind that he was portrayed in 2014 but eventually Kerrys lack of underage success to go with replacing the exceptional talents would come back to bite.

It's more or less been like the late 80s/early 90s. Had they not won in 2014 they might have gone 10 years without an All Ireland.

Kerry have dipped since 2010 really and they've had to face arguably the best Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides ever since then. For as good as Dublin are Kerry have competed with them and have also remained in the top 4.

Fitzmaurice might go. Saturday had the end of the line feel about it. With Cork away next year should they meet it could be a tricky season for them.

Mayo qualified for back to back minor finals in 2008/09 beating kerry in the 08 semi final. Things like that are likely to progress that way in Senior. Could be a sign for your 3 (4?) in a row minor sides.

Bass Reeves

shockframe wrote: »

Speaking as a neutral I reckon Fitzmaurice has done fairly well with what is comfortably the weakest Kerry team of the Live TV era.

He's not the brilliant tactical mastermind that he was portrayed in 2014 but eventually Kerrys lack of underage success to go with replacing the exceptional talents would come back to bite.

It's more or less been like the late 80s/early 90s. Had they not won in 2014 they might have gone 10 years without an All Ireland.

Kerry have dipped since 2010 really and they've had to face arguably the best Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides ever since then. For as good as Dublin are Kerry have competed with them and have also remained in the top 4.

Fitzmaurice might go. Saturday had the end of the line feel about it. With Cork away next year should they meet it could be a tricky season for them.

Mayo qualified for back to back minor finals in 2008/09 beating kerry in the 08 semi final. Things like that are likely to progress that way in Senior. Could be a sign for your 3 (4?) in a row minor sides.

While Fitzmaurice inherited a team at the end of its lifespan his insistence at not looking at the long-term has come back to haunt him. In 2013/14 he bought Crowley, Murphy and the Geaney's into the team since then it was zilch until Morley last year. His allowing of older player's to warm a seat for 2-3 years before retiring has really weakened team selection. There seems to be a perception that you need to be 23ish to play inter county championship. His allowing of older forwards to hold position on the bench has left us bereft of hacksaw we discovered over the last two weekends.

The other issue is the practice of having extended panels and not allowing younger players to play for there clubs. Where will this end at 50-60 players siting around all summer long playing no football until late September/October. Players need to play games if they are not needed for the first 20 they should play for there clubs not be held in limbo.

danganabu

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The other issue is the practice of having extended panels and not allowing younger players to play for there clubs. Where will this end at 50-60 players siting around all summer long playing no football until late September/October. Players need to play games if they are not needed for the first 20 they should play for there clubs not be held in limbo.

Have seen this up close myself, it's incredibly counter productive and if a player is on a panel or extended panel but not in the top 15-18 he is in effect playing no competitive football/hurling at all and not only will said player stagnate they will actually go backwards and then of course it is ultimately the club, the ones who developed the player since he was U12 and before, who lose out.

wonga77

danganabu wrote: »

Have seen this up close myself, it's incredibly counter productive and if a player is on a panel or extended panel but not in the top 15-18 he is in effect playing no competitive football/hurling at all and not only will said player stagnate they will actually go backwards and then of course it is ultimately the club, the ones who developed the player since he was U12 and before, who lose out.

Absolutely this. It's crazy how players are wrapped in cotton wool and not allowed play with the club. They are just as likely to pick up injuries in Kerry training. What makes it worse is that there are several guys not allowed kick a ball with the club and get zero game time for Kerry. How the hell is that supposed to help them improve?
It would help matters across the county and you wouldn't get the likes of the North and South Kerry football finals going up to Christmas and beyond

cms88

Bass Reeves wrote: »

While Fitzmaurice inherited a team at the end of its lifespan his insistence at not looking at the long-term has come back to haunt him. In 2013/14 he bought Crowley, Murphy and the Geaney's into the team since then it was zilch until Morley last year. His allowing of older player's to warm a seat for 2-3 years before retiring has really weakened team selection. There seems to be a perception that you need to be 23ish to play inter county championship. His allowing of older forwards to hold position on the bench has left us bereft of hacksaw we discovered over the last two weekends.

The other issue is the practice of having extended panels and not allowing younger players to play for there clubs. Where will this end at 50-60 players siting around all summer long playing no football until late September/October. Players need to play games if they are not needed for the first 20 they should play for there clubs not be held in limbo.

Sean O Shea this year is a prime example not being left play in the U21 final. He also should have played with the Juniors this year would have been much better off.

Gavin Crowley is training with Kerry probably since last November and apparently has only played 5 games between club and county football in that time. How is a player supposed to be better?

Bass Reeves

cms88 wrote: »

Sean O Shea this year is a prime example not being left play in the U21 final. He also should have played with the Juniors this year would have been much better off.

Gavin Crowley is training with Kerry probably since last November and apparently has only played 5 games between club and county football in that time. How is a player supposed to be better?

This is becoming a real problem. With the super eight next year it will be amplified as Coaches( it is not just a Kerry problem) try to have total control over bigger and bigger panels. Really coaches have to be instructed that players are available to clubs unless on the first 20. TBF to Brian Cody he insisted taht county championship was played and released players as he considered friendly's a waste of time. Managers play a lot of meaningless friendly's rather than release players to play competitive football and hurling abeit at a lower level. But players have a responsibility as well they have to start insisting that County Championship is played during the summer and that they are released.

BonnieSituation

Prop Joe wrote: »

Fitz has to go,New manager to be brought in and all this bull about Jack holding off for another few years has to stop,If he wants the gig give it to him,If not put the new man in place for a 4 year term.

Most importantly is the players need to be seen more with their clubs,The vice like grip Fitzmaurice has on the county CCC has to be done away with.

The Sean O Sé debacle should of been grounds for his dismissal

What was this?

cms88

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What was this?

He wasn't left my in the U21 county final as Fitz said he'd be on the panel for the Galway game. He was on the panel but obviously didn't play a single minute in any of the games he was on the panel

Fr Tod Umptious

I’ve always thought of Fitzmaurice as an “accidental” manager

He left the U-21 setup a few years back due to family commitments but then ended up as senior manager because it seemed there was very little else to choose from, and it’s not really an opportunity ones turns down.

I recall when he got the job that there was a worry that he would be to loyal to his contemporaries that were still playing, the two O’Se brothers, Aiden O’ Mahoney, Donaghey.

I have many times on this thread wondered about his selections during the league wondering, why he was not just throwing young guys and let them play
In the early years of his tenure early league losses meant that he reverted to tried and trusted to secure Division 1.

He made some very odd decisions in big games at important times, Jack Sherwood in 2013, Galvin in 2015, Mar O’ Se for Ganey in 2016 (did he really get 4 and 14 mixed up ?).

However his stock did rise after the league final just as Jack O’ Connor’s dropped after the U-21 SF.

Not sure if he will stay on, if he does they he really will have to throw cation to the wind next league season and pack the team with as many debutants as needed and let it fly.

BonnieSituation

cms88 wrote: »

He wasn't left my in the U21 county final as Fitz said he'd be on the panel for the Galway game. He was on the panel but obviously didn't play a single minute in any of the games he was on the panel

Ah yes. I remember the bleating over that. Shocking carry-on.

Poor_old_gill

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah yes. I remember the bleating over that. Shocking carry-on.

You'll need a bigger spoon to stir this sh*t

danganabu

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

You'll need a bigger spoon to stir this sh*t

So you dont agree that a guy being denied the opportunity to play with his club in a county final so he could warm the bench for the county is shocking carry-on?? Or are you just having ago at the poster because he's a Dub?

PARlance

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah yes. I remember the bleating over that. Shocking carry-on.

It'll always happen though as long as there's an overlap between Club & County fixtures. Wasn't there a good bit of fuss with your first round Club Championship fixtures and the U21 final?

Iirc it was left to the players to decide if they wanted to play for their Club a week before the final. I think that's worse.

Poor_old_gill

danganabu wrote: »

So you dont agree that a guy being denied the opportunity to play with his club in a county final so he could warm the bench for the county is shocking carry-on?? Or are you just having ago at the poster because he's a Dub?

Well I agree that its not ideal- however if he is empowered to make that deicsion then its his perogative.

On Bonnie- i find him entertaining but he is regularly expressed his hatred of all things Kerry GAA so when he comes on and expresses how aghast he is at something going on in Kerry GAA then I, for good reason, presume it to be sh*t stirring.

danganabu

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Well I agree that its not ideal- however if he is empowered to make that deicsion then its his perogative.

On Bonnie- i find him entertaining but he is regularly expressed his hatred of all things Kerry GAA so when he comes on and expresses how aghast he is at something going on in Kerry GAA then I, for good reason, presume it to be sh*t stirring.

Empowered to make that decision?? Isn't that the problem sure, and who empowered him? The county board that was elected by the clubs I assume. And what was the rush with the U21, there is no provincial or National competition, why not simply postpone it or alternatively run it off earlier in the year.

Your paranoia as opposed to Bonnie's correct observation would then be the problem. Don't shoot the messenger and all that!

Stoner

Poor_old_gill wrote:

On Bonnie- i find him entertaining but he is regularly expressed his hatred of all things Kerry GAA so when he comes on and expresses how aghast he is at something going on in Kerry GAA then I, for good reason, presume it to be sh*t stirring.

It's true, he hates Kerry football, I've read his posts about it. Shocking stuff.
I'm different though, I'm your Dub BFF I've only eaten coddle once and it was manky.