Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Bass Reeves

Amprodude wrote: »

Really think Fitzmaurice is a good call for managing this Kerry team and should stay on. He did very well for managing a very average group of footballers and I think he has got the best out of them. At the moment there are just better teams ahead of Kerry no fault of Fitzmaurice.

I have to disagree he has been too slow to bring young players in over the last tywo years. We now have a situation where we are in a final to do 4 in a row minor and none are starting with the Kerry team that have won these minor finals. Not only have they not started he has kept a lot of palyers on the bench that are past there sell by date.

PARlance

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have to disagree he has been too slow to bring young players in over the last tywo years. We now have a situation where we are in a final to do 4 in a row minor and none are starting with the Kerry team that have won these minor finals. Not only have they not started he has kept a lot of palyers on the bench that are past there sell by date.

It's very soon to be expecting things from any of those minor teams imo. The members of the first team in that sequence are only turning / turned 21 this year.

The way the game is gone, you won't be getting too many lads younger than 21 breaking onto Senior teams.

Fr Tod Umptious

PARlance wrote: »

It's very soon to be expecting things from any of those minor teams imo. The members of the first team in that sequence are only turning / turned 21 this year.

The way the game is gone, you won't be getting too many lads younger than 21 breaking onto Senior teams.

Three of the Mayo minor winners from 2013 are playing senior championship this year, and have been since last year, and adding value too.

How many of the Kerry minors from 2014 appeared this season ?

Now Kerry may have a broader range to pick from so the urgency to get minors up to senior may not be as big as in Mayo, but I agree with the other poster who said that Fitzmaurice is slow to integrate the younger lads.

Same As

People seem to be overlooking the fact that he actually has integrated younger players over the past season, but obviously not to the same extent that people would want.

In 2016, Tadhg Morley (22) & Brian O Beaglaoich (19) were introduced both held down places/were introduced pretty much for the season.

This year, he used a lot of younger players throughout the league campaign, and from those Jack Savage (22), Jack Barry (22) & Kevin McCarthy (23) were still featuring regularly come championship (McCarthy would likely have held his place aside from injury).

I'm not sure what people want, and I'm in no means here to defend Fitzmaurice, but would people prefer if we just got rid of all of our supposed "dead wood" and throw in all the young lads from 14, 15 & 16 a la Donegal and let them get a baptism of fire/slaughtering?

We're a tough bunch to please.

PARlance

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Three of the Mayo minor winners from 2013 are playing senior championship this year, and have been since last year, and adding value too.

How many of the Kerry minors from 2014 appeared this season ?

Now Kerry may have a broader range to pick from so the urgency to get minors up to senior may not be as big as in Mayo, but I agree with the other poster who said that Fitzmaurice is slow to integrate the younger lads.

Ya but the original point was that there was no starters for Kerry this year.

We have Diarmuid O Connor who was a bit of a freak in terms of readiness. A bit like his brother Cillian who at 25 seems to have have been around for a decade. I think Diarmuid has suffered from being played so much at such an age too. Us needing to progress such players more so than Kerry is a very good point.

For the other 2: Loftus is still a good bit away from being ready S&C wise for us. Coen has come on leaps this year. Both on the bench though.

My point was that expecting Fitzmaurice to be starting 20/21 year olds is unrealistic in the modern game. There will be the odd exception but I think that 22/23 is when I would expect a good young player to be breaking into a good County's starting team.

I just find that criticism of him harsh, he has lost a lot of experience and class since taking over. Who are people saying should have been chopped?
Personally, I would be hanging onto Donaghy, O'Sullivan and anyone else to get every last bit from them tbh.

The main gripe I would have if I was in Kerry is that Fitzmaurice and his team seem to have been completely left behind / not kept up to pace with the changes of the modern game in terms of S&C and possibly tactics too. From the outside looking in, there doesn't seem to be a lot of focus on the science side of things. Being good footballers isn't good enough anymore.

I wouldn't expect many 2014 Minors to have started for Kerry this year but I sure would expect 4 or 5 of them to be on a program to have them ready in the next few years. I just get the feeling they're not giving it the attention that the likes of Mayo or Dublin are.

Same As

PARlance wrote: »

I wouldn't expect many 2014 Minors to have started for Kerry this year but I sure would expect 4 or 5 of them to be on a program to have them ready in the next few years. I just get the feeling they're not giving it the attention that the likes of Mayo or Dublin are.

This might help once open.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/kerry-preparing-to-hand-over-the-keys-to-new-centre-of-excellence-431368.html

JohnBoy26

Same As wrote: »

People seem to be overlooking the fact that he actually has integrated younger players over the past season, but obviously not to the same extent that people would want.

In 2016, Tadhg Morley (22) & Brian O Beaglaoich (19) were introduced both held down places/were introduced pretty much for the season.

This year, he used a lot of younger players throughout the league campaign, and from those Jack Savage (22), Jack Barry (22) & Kevin McCarthy (23) were still featuring regularly come championship (McCarthy would likely have held his place aside from injury).

I'm not sure what people want, and I'm in no means here to defend Fitzmaurice, but would people prefer if we just got rid of all of our supposed "dead wood" and throw in all the young lads from 14, 15 & 16 a la Donegal and let them get a baptism of fire/slaughtering?

We're a tough bunch to please.

Ya but what good is that when he isn't using the players in the championship and instead always seems to revert to the same old team that has fallen short on every occasion to dublin.

I wouldn't be expecting miricles by introducing new players but at least it would be a start. There is a few on the current team who are very questionable as far as intercounty standard goes yet they keep getting picked.

A few fresh faces might invigorate the team which has gone very stale recently imo.

This isn't the only reason though why people aren't happy with the current setup. Fitzmaurice seems to be a very stubborn guy who made a few mistakes on the line in high pressure matches despite what looked to be different advice from other members of management.

This was most notably evident in the 2015 all ireland final when he took off all of the players that would most likely make a difference if a chance presented itself infront of goal. You could see diarmuid murphy trying to advise him, in the end literally pleading with him but falling on deaf ears. This cost kerry a replay imo even though dublin were the better team and deserved the win.

Don't get me wrong fitzmaurice deserves praise for what he has achieved with kerry but he is fair game for some criticism too.

Bass Reeves

I think the telling scene this year was in the first match against Mayo. If you have the match recorded watch it. With two minutes Bryan Sheahan was warmed up and itching to get on. Hassett was on the side line with him> Now 2-3 occasions came and went whereby he could have come on but they held him and held him. IMO I think they did not have faith on him to contribute in open play and were holding him for a long range free or a 45.

I am all for getting the last out of players but that took the biscuit. I was involved at underage for years and know the pressure of making substitution and trying to keep a squad together not just for one year but for two or three. This in a club situation where you are dealt a hand to play with. At County level you have much more choice but keeping a player on a panel to take a longe free or a 45 is stupid.

Napoleon when looking to appoint a new general used to ask the question ''was he lucky''. IMO this was not a superstition but rater a harking to the saying ''that you make your own luck''. Fitzmaurice did this in 2014 with some superb choice's in the final against Donegal. But since then he has shown feet of clay. In 2015 with his failure to start Donoghy against Dublin and not bringing him on soon enough. In 2015 and 2016 his failure to take Gooch off rather than other players. This year he blinked against Mayo in the replay by removing Donoghue.

Between 1987 and 1992 we made the mistake of holding onto players and allowing them to hold spots on benches and on the field that were too old. We are doing the same thing now. For all the talk taht some of these lads are 20/21 look at the panel. Some of these lads were 22/23 this year such as O'Luing, Gavin Crowley, Daly and Spillane will they be ever good enough. Brendan O'Sullivan was 27 as is Lyne and Shanahan is 25 and have never started at the business end of the championship and Lyne is the only one ever involved will they at this stage you can add BJK to that list as well.

http://www.kerrygaa.ie/playerProfiles

I might seem harsh but lads are eith good enough at that stage or are warming a seat. We had a panel of 38 but about 8-10 seem to be keeping seats warm. The goalie situation is a case in point. Will Donoghy, Maher, DOS, Enright, Fionn Fitz, Walsh, Sheahan and Young all warm seats for another 3-4 years. At least the Gooch and Declan O'Sullivan walked away when they felt they could no longer contribute. However sometimes a manager has to make hard decisions and Fitmaurice seems incapable of it.

Same As

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Brendan O'Sullivan was 27 as is Lyne and Shanahan is 25 and have never started at the business end of the championship and Lyne is the only one ever involved will they at this stage you can add BJK to that list as well.

Just to correct, Lyne started every game in Championship in 2015.

D'Agger

Sheehan coming on was a large gripe of mine, granted, the man may still have it in his Arsenal to pop frees from inside sixty odd yards, but that's really it. If I'm Sean O'Shea or Gavin White etc. then I'm fuming for not being given a crack at the business end of the year. You can say that youth players must be patient and wait to be given a crack, and that's understandable if you're behind some great servants like D.Walsh or Killian Young as might be the case for O'Shea & White in particular, but you see Sheehan coming on, not in shape, a hail mary being thrown to win the match and you surely resent the manager somewhat for making that decision.

Even taking Sheehan out of the equation - put O'Shea on against Galway, let him showcase his skills and he goes into this winter with the mentality that if he has a good league, then he'll get more time come championship, he'll get another crack - you keep him hungry and breed competition. Instead he might be wondering if he'll have Fitzmaurice picking Mikey Geaney or other less equipped forwards ahead of him again next year.

Poor_old_gill

I agree that Fitz has brought through some players to an extent but my issue would be that when it came to the championship- he hasnt backed them and has almost seemed to lose his nerve in this respect.

Shurimgreat

I know its probably not a good comparison, but the average age of the Kerry team that won the 1975 All-Ireland was something like 21 or 22. Kerry might have to sacrifice short term success for long term success. The auld lads have the ability and knowhow to win Munsters for Kerry and get them to AI semis and finals. After that they come up short.
Maybe a few years in the "wilderness" might suit Kerry where the young lads can build a team. Kerry spent a lot of the 90s in the wilderness but a golden generation came together in the early 2000s.

Shurimgreat

D'Agger wrote: »

Sheehan coming on was a large gripe of mine, granted, the man may still have it in his Arsenal to pop frees from inside sixty odd yards, but that's really it. If I'm Sean O'Shea or Gavin White etc. then I'm fuming for not being given a crack at the business end of the year. You can say that youth players must be patient and wait to be given a crack, and that's understandable if you're behind some great servants like D.Walsh or Killian Young as might be the case for O'Shea & White in particular, but you see Sheehan coming on, not in shape, a hail mary being thrown to win the match and you surely resent the manager somewhat for making that decision.

Even taking Sheehan out of the equation - put O'Shea on against Galway, let him showcase his skills and he goes into this winter with the mentality that if he has a good league, then he'll get more time come championship, he'll get another crack - you keep him hungry and breed competition. Instead he might be wondering if he'll have Fitzmaurice picking Mikey Geaney or other less equipped forwards ahead of him again next year.

From watching Kerry in recent years, he's missed more of those long range frees than he scored. Definitely a player whose picked on past reputation than current form.

Same As

Shurimgreat wrote: »

From watching Kerry in recent years, he's missed more of those long range frees than he scored. Definitely a player whose picked on past reputation than current form.

Completely agree on this. I'd be very interested to see his scoring percentages over time.

keane2097

Same As wrote: »

Completely agree on this. I'd be very interested to see his scoring percentages over time.

Dontfoul had something about him a few years ago. His numbers were nothing special if I recall correctly.

Kerrydude1981

THE Kerry Minor Football Team to play Derry in the Electric Ireland GAA All Ireland Minor Football Championship Final at Croke Park on Sunday has been named and it shows one change from the side that defeated Cavan in the semi-final.

Jack Griffin of Dr Crokes comes in at full forward in place of Donnchadh O’Sullivan.

Diarmuid O’Connor of Na Gaeil starts again at midfield with his club mate Ryan O’Neill on the bench. Three Austin Stacks players are also on the subs bench — Dylan Casey, Michael Slattery and Ciaran O’Reilly.

The team, captained by David Clifford, is as follows:

1. Deividas Uosis — Dingle

2. Sean O’Leary — Kilcummin

3. Chris O’Donoghue — Glenflesk

4. Cian Gammell — Killarney Legion

5. Patrick Warren — Gneeveguilla

6. Michael Potts — Dr Crokes

7. Niall Donohue — Firies

8. Barry Mahony — St Senans

9. Diarmuid O’Connor — Na Gaeil

10. Adam Donoghue — Castleisland Desmonds

11. David Clifford (C) — Fossa

12. Donal O’Sullivan — Kilgarvan

13. Fiáchra Clifford — Laune Rangers

14. Jack Griffin — Dr Crokes

15. Brian Friel — Rathmore

Fir Ionaid:

16. Nell O’Doherty — Dr Crokes

17. Donchadh O’Sullivan — Firies

18. Eddie Horan — Scartaglen

19. Ciarán O’Reilly — Austin Stacks

20. Ryan O’Neill — Na Gaeil

21. Michael Slattery — Austin Stacks

22. Michael O’Leary — Renard

23. Dylan Casey — Austin Stacks

24. Cathal Ferriter — Annascaul

Same As

Best of luck to the minors today!

Still ticketless up here, as rare as hens teeth, but going to give one last look again this morning. Any suggestions as to where the Kerry contingent might be gathering pre game? O Sheas perhaps?

Ciarraí Abú!

Bass Reeves

Same As wrote: »

Best of luck to the minors today!

Still ticketless up here, as rare as hens teeth, but going to give one last look again this morning. Any suggestions as to where the Kerry contingent might be gathering pre game? O Sheas perhaps?

Ciarraí Abú!

The Royal Dublin Hotel is a huge loss. Go to the Oval first now after that who knows.

DDC1990

I was lucky enough to secure a couple of Nally Tickets for my Mayo fiancee and I. Had to pull every string I had though. Very lucky in the end. It's funny, I've been to nearly as many Mayo games as Kerry games this year. 14 (I think) Kerry games including McGrath Cup and League. 9 Mayo games.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the minors and I hope they play to their ability, because this Derry side are very strong. The way they cruised past the Dublin team in the second half was very impressive.

It might be the last time we see David Clifford in a Kerry jersey, if OZ comes calling so I hope he does himself justice. Last year he was having a bit of a nightmare with his shooting, before he unleashed his wonder goal. 6-64 he's scored in 11 Minor matches in the last 2 years. 6-44 from play. Incredible.

As for the Senior match. I was sure that Mayo would have a good chance after they beat us, but attended the Dublin v Tyrone game the day after and it sucked the hope out of me. Dublin play the game on their terms. They bully, they block, they harry and get 15 men behind the ball. Then they turn the ball over and counter at ferocious pace. Then in an instant they push up and keep men high up and lash footpasses into the corner forwards. Then they change and slowly pick gaps in your defence, with Ciaran Kilkenny seemingly doing nothing- going over and back before delivering a killer pass.

Their forwards are frighteningly accurate. Their bench is frighteningly strong. Their defenders are tough and fast. To top it all off they have 5 or 6 plans, which they can put in place at any moment of the match.

Have no doubt Dublin are well versed in the dark arts as well. They body check, pull down runners, stand on toes, sledge, the whole 9 yards. Peter Harte got an awful doing against Tyrone. They will target Boyle and Keegan. They will rough up O'Connor. They will do anything it takes to win and that is why they are on the brink of 3 in a row. They are are the best at everything in the game at the moment- good and bad. We saw a few examples in the Kerry game that Mayo are well able to rough things up themselves.

I can see Mayo coping with some of the plans. I can't see them coping with all of them.

Having said all of that, Mayo just won't die. They've struggled past far worse teams than Dublin, but still they are here at the final step. They know Dublin will try to kill their belief early and get the doubts in their minds. If they ride out the first half without taking a fatal blow then, their belief will grow and grow.

Heart says a draw, head says Dublin by 7.

Powerhouse

Logically this is beyond Mayo. In this championship they lost to a Division 2 team and were taken to extra time by two other Division 2 teams one of which will play in Division 3 next year. All three teams lost to Tipperary in last year's championship. They also needed a replay to beat the team that finished bottom of Division 1. That tells something about their standard. The assumption would be that Dublin would wipe all these teams.

Having said that Mayo did well to beat an albeit limited Kerry team - if was the kind of game Kerry have often spluttered through successfully in the past. And Mayo were behind for all the closing stages the first day. Defeat was there inviting itself but they survived. Their form has improved in recent games but they will be tested more than ever today.

It can also be argued that Dublin haven't played much on the way to the final but allowing for that they were far more convincing than Mayo and three of the teams they played will play Division 1 football next spring.

Many people are saying that if Mayo are in it late on they have a great chance but I see it the other way - Dublin are the ones with 14 All-Star awards and two Footballers of the Year on the bench. Logically, despite what some people appear to be implying, they should finish the stronger in a tight finish. Dublin's minds will also be focussed by their non-performance against the same opposition last year and I'll go with Martin McHugh's prediction of Dublin by 8+.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Best of luck to the minors today.

Ciarraí Abú

ShamoBuc

Clifford really is a gifted footballer.

Royal Legend

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Clifford really is a gifted footballer.

Over the years there have been minor teams that have stood out as been special usually with great players and one special one that is electric.

Was lucky enough to witness players such as Richie Hogan, Graeme Geraghty, James McCartan and Austin Gleeson at minor level, but this guy Clifford is like the Star, Gooch and the Bomber all rolled into one

You can imagine, like all the previous teams youse have met that the Derry Manager would have given instructions on marking him tight, cutting out the supply, and god knows what else and then straight from the throw in he gathers a long delivery and sticks it in the back of the net, not even 30 seconds gone, by the 15th minute mark he has scored a further goal and made another, game well and truly over :eek:

keane2097

An Ciarraioch

In terms of raw talent, can we already put him in the same class as Fitz and Gooch? He certainly looks ready for the seniors on this display! One worry - the official AFL twitter a/c is already sniffing around:

https://mobile.twitter.com/AFL/status/909266437201567744

Amprodude

He will be snapped by the AFL. It be in the interest of Kerry management to prevent this happening and have one of the greatest upcoming stars to be playing on a Kerry team and not an AFL one. Great player definately in Sheedy, Cooper, Fitzgerald and Listons league.

dobman88

Amprodude wrote: »

He will be snapped by the AFL. It be in the interest of Kerry management to prevent this happening and have one of the greatest upcoming stars to be playing on a Kerry team and not an AFL one. Great player definately in Sheedy, Cooper, Fitzgerald and Listons league.

If he gets the chance to play pro sport he should take it. Kerry and his club, Fossa, should be compensated financially by whoever signs him for producing the talent. Can't turn down a move to afl, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity

Doltanian

dobman88 wrote: »

If he gets the chance to play pro sport he should take it. Kerry and his club, Fossa, should be compensated financially by whoever signs him for producing the talent. Can't turn down a move to afl, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity

There is more to life than money, AFL stars often get life changing injuries and are crippled old men before they ever hit thirty. I hope that David Clifford stays in the Kingdom and helps Kerry raise to the top once again and nothing would give us greater joy than to watch him put several goals into the Dublin net next year.

keane2097

Doltanian wrote: »

There is more to life than money, AFL stars often get life changing injuries and are crippled old men before they ever hit thirty. I hope that David Clifford stays in the Kingdom and helps Kerry raise to the top once again and nothing would give us greater joy than to watch him put several goals into the Dublin net next year.

Posted this elsewhere a while back.

I think we ought to be skeptical about this land of milk and honey professional lifestyle a lot of people seem to be swallowing whole.

People often ask 'why would a young lad stay home when given the opportunity to XYZ', I think there are a lot of reasons why someone would stay home.

You can go and live thousands of miles from your friends and family, spending all day every day thinking about a game of ball, statistically having very little chance of making it, coming home broke up, with a few quid but having to find a career to start in your late 20s, missing all the good times you could have had playing GAA with your county etc. You might make it but you're still giving up everything you dreamed about growing up for money. You're committing to a life where you no longer live near any of the people you love for money.

It might be a brilliant decision for some guys, but it could be a terrible call for others. If we're all too dazzled by the bright lights of Geelong or whatever other random place in Australia to bring a bit of balance to it we're doing the young fellas in the country a disservice.

I think it's a sad indictment of the modern world that people could think there's no question you would go if you were asked.

It's not even EPL money we're talking about where you're basically loaded for life. I'm sure the likes of Tommy Walsh and Marty Clarke come home with the price of a house in their bank accounts but they have to get jobs after like.

You're just giving up your plans for your 20s for maybe half a million if you do unbelievably well. That's not for everyone.

Doltanian

keane2097 wrote: »

Posted this elsewhere a while back.



I think it's a sad indictment of the modern world that people could think there's no question you would go if you were asked.

It's not even EPL money we're talking about where you're basically loaded for life. I'm sure the likes of Tommy Walsh and Marty Clarke come home with the price of a house in their bank accounts but they have to get jobs after like.

You're just giving up your plans for your 20s for maybe half a million if you do unbelievably well. That's not for everyone.

What I think is a disgrace is how Dublin treats its players who are paid professional athletes in all but name, they are certainly not amateurs. Yet counties who have a great talent often lose them to AFL, Dublin won't lose their players because the GAA ensures they have the financial power to pay their players and hold them. Its a two speed system and the sooner millions is diverted out of Dublin to encourage Hurling in Donegal and Football below in Kilkenny then its obvious the GAA are a corrupt organisation with money and corruption in their very heart.