Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Fr Tod Umptious

patk72 wrote: »

Kerry looked a bit leggy to me yesterday and they will be up against a superfit Tyrone team,a big ask even with home advantage. 1 thing about yesterday...why was O'Donoghue taken off when at least 3 other players could have been taken off before him?

Fitness will have a huge influence on it.

IMO this Kerry team cannot go toe to toe with a hard running fit team.
A lot of them were flat on their feet after 60mins v Cork, and having to dig out a win yesterday will not have helped them.

I do not know what Tyrone are like fitness wise but as said before Kerry could have done without having to get up to 100% on July21st.
The carrot is that you have a relatively easy 4th round game if you win this, but the intensity will have to be upped again to play Mayo, Cork , (probably) Dublin or (probably) Donegal.

gaffer91

I'd say we're pretty much fúcked tbh. We're not going well and they've traditionally had the psychological edge on us for whatever reason. The fact it's in Killarney is a boost but I just think we're not good enough at the moment. Hopefully I will be proved completely wrong.

margio

Mostly worried about Kerry' midfield. Yestersdays performance is not good enough, to get anywere in this years championship. Hopefully Galvin an co can clean up in the breaking ball.

wonga77

not too optimistic about this tbh. This Kerry side has not shown any sign yet that they can up it a few gears if needed. If Westmeath had any experience and bottle the last day then they could have closed it out. If we fall 2 or even 3 behind the next day we are in big trouble so a good start is vital. The tinkering about with the team has me baffled, Killian is not a corner back, Donaghy is not playing well enough and Joc is too quick to make the young lads such as Donaghue, Crowley, Enright etc scapegoats.
Dont get me wrong, I will be there roaring my head off for the kingdom but I cant see where the big improvement that is obviously needed is going to magically appear from.

teednab-el

wonga77 wrote: »

not too optimistic about this tbh. This Kerry side has not shown any sign yet that they can up it a few gears if needed. If Westmeath had any experience and bottle the last day then they could have closed it out. If we fall 2 or even 3 behind the next day we are in big trouble so a good start is vital. The tinkering about with the team has me baffled, Killian is not a corner back, Donaghy is not playing well enough and Joc is too quick to make the young lads such as Donaghue, Crowley, Enright etc scapegoats.
Dont get me wrong, I will be there roaring my head off for the kingdom but I cant see where the big improvement that is obviously needed is going to magically appear from.

Everyone I speak to in the Kingdom is playing Kerry chances down. Last time that happened was 2009 before the Dublin match and see what happened. Tyrone are playing Kerry away, so that will have to stand to Kerry. Tyrone have had more physical games under their belt and did well against a hard defence of Donegal so it is a tough one to call. So far in 2012 Tyrone have played better in their matches as opposed to Kerry. Pressure is still on Kerry to deliver and Tyrone won't make it easy thats for sure. One things for sure if Kerry loose the next day out they will be sick of the sight of Tyrone.

homerjay2005

margio wrote: »

Mostly worried about Kerry' midfield. Yestersdays performance is not good enough, to get anywere in this years championship. Hopefully Galvin an co can clean up in the breaking ball.

i would have thought midfield is the least of kerrys worries to be honest. we dominated the all ireland final last year at midfield and i think maher and sheehan are as good a pairing as there is.

D'Agger

teednab-el wrote: »

Everyone I speak to in the Kingdom is playing Kerry chances down. Last time that happened was 2009 before the Dublin match and see what happened. Tyrone are playing Kerry away, so that will have to stand to Kerry. Tyrone have had more physical games under their belt and did well against a hard defence of Donegal so it is a tough one to call. So far in 2012 Tyrone have played better in their matches as opposed to Kerry. Pressure is still on Kerry to deliver and Tyrone won't make it easy thats for sure. One things for sure if Kerry loose the next day out they will be sick of the sight of Tyrone.

While this may be considered a typical Kerry tactic of playing ourselves down, quietly confident that we can still do it - I think there's a number of differences between the 2009 and 2012 teams.

For one - leadership - while he wasn't fit in 2009 at this stage of the competition, you can be damn sure Dara O'Sé provided plenty of character in the dressing room - same goes for Mike McCarthy when he came in.

Another was that we had a manager picking his players in their best positions - wtf Jack is doing persevering with Young in the corner is beyond me, clipping an all star wing backs wings is utterly stupid, especially when we have a young player of the calibre of Enright sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs. I don't know what's going on with Donnaghy either tbh!

Don't get me wrong - I think we can beat Tyrone, I'm expecting a close, tough game where the team coming out the other side will feel like they've won a war. However, Tyrone have had tougher games - i.e. better preparation, whereas we've stumbled by Tipp, lost to Cork and barely fell over the line against Westmeath, while I do admit we showed character to come back from 6points down - we should be holding ourselves to a better standard than allowing ourselves get into that position.

We're due a performance, but if we stay at the level we're at right now we'll get a beating from our fiercest rival over the past 10 years or so at home - it'd be disastrous.

DDC1990

PaulieC wrote: »

While this may be considered a typical Kerry tactic of playing ourselves down, quietly confident that we can still do it - I think there's a number of differences between the 2009 and 2012 teams.

For one - leadership - while he wasn't fit in 2009 at this stage of the competition, you can be damn sure Dara O'Sé provided plenty of character in the dressing room - same goes for Mike McCarthy when he came in.

Another was that we had a manager picking his players in their best positions - wtf Jack is doing persevering with Young in the corner is beyond me, clipping an all star wing backs wings is utterly stupid, especially when we have a young player of the calibre of Enright sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs. I don't know what's going on with Donnaghy either tbh!

Don't get me wrong - I think we can beat Tyrone, I'm expecting a close, tough game where the team coming out the other side will feel like they've won a war. However, Tyrone have had tougher games - i.e. better preparation, whereas we've stumbled by Tipp, lost to Cork and barely fell over the line against Westmeath, while I do admit we showed character to come back from 6points down - we should be holding ourselves to a better standard than allowing ourselves get into that position.

We're due a performance, but if we stay at the level we're at right now we'll get a beating from our fiercest rival over the past 10 years or so at home - it'd be disastrous.

I agree, Its not impossible, but Tyrone at 2/1 is something that I couldn't pass up.

I can't see how our forwards are going to magic up a workrate high enough to track the Tyrone backs, when they raid up the field.

Our midfield was one positive aspect, but against a physical pairing in Páirc Uí Chaoimh, we were outmuscled (without Sheehan), and I can see the likes of Joe McMahon doing likewise.

I'd suggest leaving Killian Young on, and putting him on Martin Penrose if he starts. Penrose will roam all over the place, and a fella like Killian would be thrilled to get a chance to move around the field and try to nullify him.

Mahoney should mark Mulligan. Neither have exceptional pace, and I think Mahoney would relish taking a few lumps out of Muggsy.

There is a corner forward spot up for grabs I feel, with James O'Donaghue or BJK starting if we are going for pace, or Curtin/Kieran O'Leary starting if we want a more experienced, clever footballer used to physical challenges.

I'll be worried if Donaghy starts in full forward. It doesn't work anymore with sweepers and fullbacks getting away with hanging off the full forward under the high ball.

Donaghy out the middle wouldn't bother me as much, because I think his work rate triples out there, and he'd be right where he wants to be, in the thick of the action. The only thing is, that he slows the game down when on the ball, something that would kill us against Tyrone. I'd like to see two clever cornerforwards, Curtin and Declan O'Sullivan maybe, winning ball and laying it off straight away to the Gooch, to put it over the bar. Donegal have worked this system very well, where they draw the men in on them, and pass the ball out to the 45 m line where a free forward is to put the ball over.

Kerry will need to be at 100% to get over this challenge, as Mickey Harte will be more motivated then ever to get through this challenge. Both managers really have their Jobs on the line (though I think Mickey will walk away this year regardless, and certainly won't be pushed even if they lose). I'd love 30-40,000 to turn up, and to light up Fitzgerald Stadium in green and gold.

I don't think it'll be a classic, but hopefully it'll be close. If there is only a point or 2 in it coming towards Full Time, then I'd expect Kerry to grind out a win.

If Kerry continue in the same vain as they have been so far this year, then I could see a drubbing, with Tyrone getting goals through the middle, which would make the difference.

keane2097

4/7 is an amazing price for Kerry in this game.

DDC1990

keane2097 wrote: »

4/7 is an amazing price for Kerry in this game.

Amazing good or Amazing bad?

I cannot see how in gods name we are favourites the way we have been going this year.

keane2097

DDC1990 wrote: »

Amazing good or Amazing bad?

I cannot see how in gods name we are favourites the way we have been going this year.

Amazing good. Boots = filled.

We're favourites because our players are of a level of quality comfortably above that of Tyrone. We were at least as good as Dublin 10 months ago, against whom a seven point loss was flattering for Tyrone. We were probably the most impressive team in the National League along with Mayo and have basically underperformed in our last three games to great weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Tyrone have been eulogised over because they went unbeaten in a Division 2 group stage that was very light on quality. In the league final they were comfortably accounted for by a Kildare team that all of a sudden people think are useless (which by the way is obv similar to the attitude to Kerry a lol overreaction based on a tiny sample). Tyrone were lucky to stumble over an average Armagh team, did very well tactically against a Donegal team who looked comfortably a level above them once they made some tactical adjustments of their own and accounted for Roscommon who are bad without any fuss.

Kerry haven't looked fussed since the league semi final against Mayo when most of the panel was dying sick, but they pulled a win out of a six point deficit against the wind in the second half the other day. This game will come down to how much Kerry are interested, and the signs from the second half the last day are positive, while the opposition will be a red rag to a bull in this one. This is the only draw Kerry should have wanted.

DDC1990

keane2097 wrote: »

Amazing good. Boots = filled.

We're favourites because our players are of a level of quality comfortably above that of Tyrone. We were at least as good as Dublin 10 months ago, against whom a seven point loss was flattering for Tyrone. We were probably the most impressive team in the National League along with Mayo and have basically underperformed in our last three games to great weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Tyrone have been eulogised over because they went unbeaten in a Division 2 group stage that was very light on quality. In the league final they were comfortably accounted for by a Kildare team that all of a sudden people think are useless (which by the way is obv similar to the attitude to Kerry a lol overreaction based on a tiny sample). Tyrone were lucky to stumble over an average Armagh team, did very well tactically against a Donegal team who looked comfortably a level above them once they made some tactical adjustments of their own and accounted for Roscommon who are bad without any fuss.

Kerry haven't looked fussed since the league semi final against Mayo when most of the panel was dying sick, but they pulled a win out of a six point deficit against the wind in the second half the other day. This game will come down to how much Kerry are interested, and the signs from the second half the last day are positive, while the opposition will be a red rag to a bull in this one. This is the only draw Kerry should have wanted.

Fúck me, I wish I was as positive as you.

Any idea how we are going to stop the quick handpassing game that Tyrone play, which Westmeath used in the first half to rip us open.

Or how we are going to stop the likes of Peter Harte ripping through the middle past Eoin Brosnan, who will be dragged out of position by his man, as he has been several times over the last year?

If Tyrone played one on one football, like the 80's then individually Kerry would account for them easily. However football has become more then individual skill and the bigger, fitter team with the better system will win.

Thats why I think Tyrone will beat us. No slight on Jack, his system has won us All Irelands, but thats a bygone era. I just hope Jack has something up his sleave for us on Saturday.

wonga77

amazingly bad I would say, I would want at least evs to even consider backing us in our current form

JFlah

I'm actually pretty confident ahead of the game, while yes Kerry have not performed so far in the championship I think we have more than enough quality to overcome an average enough Tyrone side. I,m not sure why we are fearing THIS Tyrone team so much , they have'nt improved on recent seasons in which they have been distinctly average and we as Kerry people seem to forget that this is not the Tyrone nemesis of the 00's. Tyrone have overcome a POOR Armagh side , given Donegal a decent game until the last 10mins when Donegal increased the tempo and destroyed a woeful Roscommon , surely not terrifying form, pretty much on par with our own really. We have better players a better panel surely better motivation considering our history against them , our Achilles heel if we have one will be our baffling selections and tactics but even those can be overcome!! Kerry by 4/5 relatively comfortably

keane2097

DDC1990 wrote: »

If Tyrone played one on one football, like the 80's then individually Kerry would account for them easily. However football has become more then individual skill and the bigger, fitter team with the better system will win.

Or like they did against Armagh.

Fr Tod Umptious

JFlah wrote: »

I'm actually pretty confident ahead of the game, while yes Kerry have not performed so far in the championship I think we have more than enough quality to overcome an average enough Tyrone side. I,m not sure why we are fearing THIS Tyrone team so much , they have'nt improved on recent seasons in which they have been distinctly average and we as Kerry people seem to forget that this is not the Tyrone nemesis of the 00's. Tyrone have overcome a POOR Armagh side , given Donegal a decent game until the last 10mins when Donegal increased the tempo and destroyed a woeful Roscommon , surely not terrifying form, pretty much on par with our own really. We have better players a better panel surely better motivation considering our history against them , our Achilles heel if we have one will be our baffling selections and tactics but even those can be overcome!! Kerry by 4/5 relatively comfortably

I do not know anything about Tyrone's panel but I seriously doubt the strength of Kerry's when they have to bring on an injured Darran O' Sullivan v Westmenath while the likes of BJK and Curtain still sit on the bench.

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I do not know anything about Tyrone's panel but I seriously doubt the strength of Kerry's when they have to bring on an injured Darran O' Sullivan v Westmenath while the likes of BJK and Curtain still sit on the bench.

Yep, bringing a guy who was nominated for player of the year last year off the bench to score a goal and provide a few assists is a bad sign alright.

JFlah

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I do not know anything about Tyrone's panel but I seriously doubt the strength of Kerry's when they have to bring on an injured Darran O' Sullivan v Westmenath while the likes of BJK and Curtain still sit on the bench.

Just because it has,nt been utilized properly does not mean that the quality is'nt there , being an eternal optimist I am hoping management will realize how to use our bench to better effect sooner than later i.e Saturday

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

Yep, bringing a guy who was nominated for player of the year last year off the bench to score a goal and provide a few assists is a bad sign alright.

You are deliberately missing the point.
If the likes of BJK, Curtain etc were any good then you would not have to risk deploying an unfit player to get you out of a hole in Westmeath

And the fact they were in a hole in the first place shows just how poor this team have become this year

Fr Tod Umptious

JFlah wrote: »

Just because it has,nt been utilized properly does not mean that the quality is'nt there , being an eternal optimist I am hoping management will realize how to use our bench to better effect sooner than later i.e Saturday

For whatever reason Jack has no faith in the young guys when it comes to the crunch.
The introduction of Galvin after 20mins in the all Ireland last year showed that.
Whatever way Kerry exit this year it will be the end of Jack and after that you might get a chance to see if the next generation are up to it

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You are deliberately missing the point.
If the likes of BJK, Curtain etc were any good then you would not have to risk deploying an unfit player to get you out of a hole in Westmeath

And the fact they were in a hole in the first place shows just how poor this team have become this year

Do we reckon Dublin would bring Eoghan O'Gara or an 80% fit Bernard Brogan off the bench if they were struggling in a game? Are Donegal bringing on an 80% fit Michael Murphy before or after they bring on Marty Boyle?

You know yourself, it was an utterly standard substitution that proves nothing more than the fact that an almost fit Darren O'Sullivan is still one of the best players around. He'd be the first name on the Mayo team with one leg.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

Do we reckon Dublin would bring Eoghan O'Gara or an 80% fit Bernard Brogan off the bench if they were struggling in a game? Are Donegal bringing on an 80% fit Michael Murphy before or after they bring on Marty Boyle?

You know yourself, it was an utterly standard substitution that proves nothing more than the fact that an almost fit Darren O'Sullivan is still one of the best players around. He'd be the first name on the Mayo team with one leg.

Not for one minute questioning Darran o' Sullivans ability.
But what I am questioning is the quality of this Kerry panel and why they need to play a half fit Darran O' Sullivan to get out of a hole.

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Not for one minute questioning Darran o' Sullivans ability.
But what I am questioning is the quality of this Kerry panel and why they need to play a half fit Darran O' Sullivan to get out of a hole.

You play your best players in tight spots. Darren O Sullivan at 80% fitness is better than almost every other forward in the country.

I know you actually understand this perfectly well.

margio

premierstone wrote: »

Paulie pretty much has hit the nail on hte head there, he had absolutely zero to do with teh underage success in Tipp and all that was in place long before he's arrival, he then tried to take credit for it all and even tried to take over the minors last year untill David Power put he's foot down and told him where to go, my own club qualified for a munster final last year and lo and behold here he was down at our last training before hand trying to get in on it and doing interviews in the paper as if he was involved.

Dont get me wrong he did some very good work with Tipp initially, but if he was half the man he thought he was he'd be a great man!

I wasn't talking about what he did in Tipperary. I want him because of what he did in Kerry. It's obvious that he had nothing to do with underage success in Tipp, an All Ireland Minor team just doesn't appear out of somewhere,,He brought an All Ireland club to Laune Rangers, ok they had talent but every team that has talent doesn't always bring home glory. There was plenty of clubs in Kerry that had just as much talent if not more than Laune Rangers had at the time, but they went nowhere. Evans brought out the best in those players.

keane2097

It's interesting how little talk there's been of the collapse in Mayo football considering how they struggled to a similar degree to Kerry against a team that's by all measurable standards worse than Westmeath.

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

It's interesting how little talk there's been of the collapse in Mayo football considering how they struggled to a similar degree to Kerry against a team that's by all measurable standards worse than Westmeath.

Did they ever really look like loosing that game though, while the bare result is dissapointing from the highlights I seen they were alway reasonably in control, whereas Kerry really did get a genuine fright and should have been put away by Westmeath *

*Just to say I haven't seen either game in full as I was having my knees re-aligned in that sh*thole PUC, so am open to correction.

keane2097

premierstone wrote: »

Did they ever really look like loosing that game though, while the bare result is dissapointing from the highlights I seen they were alway reasonably in control, whereas Kerry really did get a genuine fright and should have been put away by Westmeath *

*Just to say I haven't seen either game in full as I was having my knees re-aligned in that sh*thole PUC, so am open to correction.

Jesus they were given enough of it alright tbf. They weren't in as dire a situation as Kerry were when six points down but like I said struggled comparably against a team who are certainly no better, probably a little worse.

The media narrative however is that Mayo are an up and coming team who are borderline contenders for the AI, while Kerry are finished (and have been since 2003). The fact I'm just pointing out is that journalists in GAA are writing a story and can be regularly seen to interpret (not to say twist) certain events to fit that story. Gullible people take it as objective truth and use things like Darren O'Sullivan coming off the bench as a sign that Kerry's younger players aren't up to scratch as if one thing following from the other was even slightly logical because it fits the narrative, while the fact of something like Mayo's forwards looking as clueless as they ever have is fobbed off to a large extent, again for the sake of the narrative.

Kerry stumble over Westmeath, poor performance shows they're finished. Mayo stumble over Sligo, getting the result is all that matters but good to see the team have developed a gritty resolve to get over the line without playing well.

Good example:

http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2012/07/mayo-among-contenders-again.html

keane2097

Funnily enough I literally just came across this piece here bemoaning the same issue:

http://www.anfearrua.com/topic.aspx?id=1229406#.UALCJqQnKbo.twitter

Carraig95

With regards to the Darrren argument, I have no doubt that Jack knew the only man to truly make a quick impact was O' Sullivan. Curtin and Keane are still young bucks finding their feet and would not nearly have had as much of an instant impact as Darren, even at 80%. Both himself and Cooper showed wise heads when linking up for the dubious free kick, plus the two usurpers don't have that lightening burst of speed we needed to run in a goal, and at six points down, a goal was what we needed.

When it comes to confidence I would be more concerned with James O'Donoghue, who had a great game, kicking two points and then was substituted for O'Leary. Walking off the field, shaking his head wasn't great. He was the best of the full forward line and should have been left on the field.

Either way, Saturday is just around the corner and it could be the start of a beautiful summer or the end of the road for a team that owes us nothing.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

Jesus they were given enough of it alright tbf. They weren't in as dire a situation as Kerry were when six points down but like I said struggled comparably against a team who are certainly no better, probably a little worse.

The media narrative however is that Mayo are an up and coming team who are borderline contenders for the AI, while Kerry are finished (and have been since 2003). The fact I'm just pointing out is that journalists in GAA are writing a story and can be regularly seen to interpret (not to say twist) certain events to fit that story. Gullible people take it as objective truth and use things like Darren O'Sullivan coming off the bench as a sign that Kerry's younger players aren't up to scratch as if one thing following from the other was even slightly logical because it fits the narrative, while the fact of something like Mayo's forwards looking as clueless as they ever have is fobbed off to a large extent, again for the sake of the narrative.

Kerry stumble over Westmeath, poor performance shows they're finished. Mayo stumble over Sligo, getting the result is all that matters but good to see the team have developed a gritty resolve to get over the line without playing well.

Good example:

http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2012/07/mayo-among-contenders-again.html

What exactly is your problem with the media narrative ?

Does it upset you that it does not conform to your 'everything will be all right on the night' optimism ?

The reality of the situation is that on each occasion this championship season Kerry have failed to impress.
And it's only natural that the media will focus on the age of this team and the lack of quality off the bench.