Sinn Fein these days

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

Yes some killings by the UDR ect were accidental, most were deliberate.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do you have proof ?

TOMASJ wrote: »

Check out the UDR guys from Armagh city who shot Adrian Carroll. in broad daylight,

You said "most were deliberate", and gave ONE example ?

Might I at this stage refer any objective readers back to when K-9 said that targetting Gardai was "common" - just "common", mind, as in "fairly frequent", which isn't even remotely close to claiming "most" - and posted a list of dead Gardai.....he didn't even get away with having 6 valid examples.

So TOMASJ, you're DEFINTELY not getting away with just the one. :rolleyes:

I'll ask the question again....you said

TOMASJ wrote: »

Yes some killings by the UDR ect were accidental, most were deliberate.

Do you have proof that most were deliberate ?

Dyr

can you stop SHOUTING?

theres a good chap

K-9

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You said "most were deliberate", and gave ONE example ?

Might I at this stage refer any objective readers back to when K-9 said that targetting Gardai was "common" - just "common", mind, as in "fairly frequent", which isn't even remotely close to claiming "most" - and posted a list of dead Gardai.....he didn't even get away with having 6 valid examples.

LOL, That was just seizing on an obvious mistake to deflect an unanswerable point. Basically shooting an armed Garda on one occasion deflects the substantive point that unarmed, uniformed Gardai were murdered.

I don't think anybody defended it in fairness, just ignored the point.

Liam Byrne

Bambi wrote: »

can you stop SHOUTING?

theres a good chap

Was that aimed at me ?

Two words in capitals for emphasis and you're posting that as a contribution to the discussion ? What's this - Liveline ? :rolleyes:

K-9

Bambi wrote: »

can you stop SHOUTING?

theres a good chap

Can you punctuate properly?

Like a good girl.

TOMASJ

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You said "most were deliberate", and gave ONE example ?

Might I at this stage refer any objective readers back to when K-9 said that targetting Gardai was "common" - just "common", mind, as in "fairly frequent", which isn't even remotely close to claiming "most" - and posted a list of dead Gardai.....he didn't even get away with having 6 valid examples.

So TOMASJ, you're DEFINTELY not getting away with just the one. :rolleyes:

I'll ask the question again....you said



Do you have proof that most were deliberate ?

Have a look at those responsible for the Mimi show band

TOMASJ

K-9 wrote: »

Was it UDR sanctioned?

I dont know if it was or not, your are going to have to educate yourself on that one and make up your own mind

TOMASJ

and Seamus Ludlow,
they're not hard to find just Google UDR Killers

K-9

TOMASJ wrote: »

I dont know if it was or not, your are going to have to educate yourself on that one and make up your own mind

I think it was a splinter force.

Think it was the Force of Armagh City Council .

FARC.

K-9

TOMASJ wrote: »

and Seamus Ludlow,
they're not hard to find just Google UDR Killers

YEP, were is this going?

TOMASJ

Patsy Kelly
Co Tyrone stopped by a UDR patrol 1974, body found weight down in a lake a few weeks later,

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

and Seamus Ludlow,
they're not hard to find just Google UDR Killers

It's late, so I'm going to take you at your word that they were deliberate.
But rather than simply asking you to keep going til you get to 6 and beyond, can I ask this :

How many killings in total were there ?
How many of those do you know for a fact were deliberate (no assumptions, no guesswork, no "gut feelings", since I'm not allowed those for McCabe's "manslaughter")

Only by providing those 2 figures can you support your statement that most were deliberate

BTW, I'm not actually sure what this has to do with Sinn Fein being photographed with criminals, or how it relates to Sinn Fein......like I said, we could probably make thousands of pages of examples for loads of different terrorists and scum and Bush, but they'd all be off-topic.

TOMASJ

K-9 wrote: »

YEP, were is this going?

Ask Liam post *272 he asked for incidents where the UDR killed innocent people.

K-9

TOMASJ wrote: »

Ask Liam post *272 he asked for incidents where the UDR killed innocent people.

How innocent?

I mean on another thread, Gd. McCabe wasn't that innocent.

Liam Byrne

K-9 wrote: »

Was it UDR sanctioned?

Maybe not - even TOMASJ didn't say "UDR", he said "UDR guys", which means they were members but not necessarily acting under orders from the UDR.....

Maybe it was just like the IRA guys that shot Det McCabe..... :rolleyes:

neil_hosey

I just read pages 1-3 of this thread, and skipped to page 19.. seriously? is this really about Sinn Fein getting in on the gov? is this forum modded? i am probably wrong as usual though

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

Ask Liam post *272 he asked for incidents where the UDR killed innocent people.

Please refrain from misquoting. I asked you for proof that most were deliberate

I didn't ask for a list of those killed, since (if we apply IRA standards and equivalents) loads of those may not have been deliberate.

I asked you for proof to back up your claim that most were deliberate.

Given that you've changed my request without my knowledge, I now have to revoke my assumption that the ones that you posted already were actually deliberate and go check them.....I had (as I said) accepted those in good faith, but if you were only listing "incidents where the UDR killed innocent people", and not "incidents where the UDR deliberately killed innocent people", even the 4 listed so far are irrelevant to my question.

TOMASJ

It's late, so I'm going to take you at your word that they were deliberate.
But rather than simply asking you to keep going til you get to 6 and beyond, can I ask this :

How many killings in total were there ?
How many of those do you know for a fact were deliberate (no assumptions, no guesswork, no "gut feelings", since I'm not allowed those for McCabe's "manslaughter")

Now thats the 64 million question since even the relatives of most people killed by the brits cant even get a date for an inquest,
you are asking me to answer a question, that the british establishment would go to any length conceal.

TOMASJ

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Given that you've changed my request without my knowledge, I now have to revoke my assumption that the ones that you posted already were actually deliberate and go check them.....I had (as I said) accepted those in good faith, but if you were only listing "incidents where the UDR killed innocent people", and not "incidents where the UDR deliberately killed innocent people", even the 4 listed so far are irrelevant to my question.

Very convenient,

K-9

TOMASJ wrote: »

you are asking me to answer a question, that the british establishment would go to any length conceal.

Indeed, substitute, IRA for British and I think you may actually get an agreement on this thread!

TOMASJ

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Maybe not - even TOMASJ didn't say "UDR", he said "UDR guys", which means they were members but not necessarily acting under orders from the UDR.....

Maybe it was just like the IRA guys that shot Det McCabe..... :rolleyes:

Ill fix that for you
This was a UDR unit on patrol that day, they left their land rover shot Aidan Carol, got back into their land rover and drove off.

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

Very convenient,

What are you waffling about now ? What's "very convenient" ?

I merely pointed out to you what I had originally asked for - the remotest chance of you backing up your claim that most were deliberate

Convenience doesn't come into it. In order to have come to that conclusion, you must already have proof....otherwise your original post where you claimed that is pure conjecture, opinion and/or fiction - something you have repeatedly criticised other posters for posting as fact.

So back up your statement so that we can go back to discussing the merits of Sinn Fein and whether they should be in government given their stance on certain matters, or else please start a new thread - this one's far enough off topic as it is, without some abstract "very convenient" rubbish...... :rolleyes:

TOMASJ

Originally Posted by TOMASJ
and can you say this has not happened in the past?

Can you say it has ? And unlike an earlier example the photo has to come AFTER they have been convicted and jailed. Give me an example and I'll gladly question their morals and call them scum too - as I said, I treat like with like.

Cant at this moment get you a photograph, I can provide you with a name of a RUC man who murdered innnocent people and a buddy of the DUPs Peter Robinson and was written to in prison by Ian Paisley and invited to join the DUP on release from prison,
Now you going to have to do some work yourself, Google Billy McCaughy RUC, UVF, killer

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

Ill fix that for you
This was a UDR unit on patrol that day, they left their land rover shot Aidan Carol, got back into their land rover and drove off.

But did they just see him, recognise him, and decide to shoot him then and there, or were they actually under orders ?

Actually, scratch that - I don't expect you to spot the parallels between that and how you view IRA - sorry, non-IRA - operations.

And it'd be even further off topic......2 pages ago, you were asked to back up a claim that you made; that should have been a single reply from you, and we'd have been back on topic.

As it is we're WAYYYYYYY off-topic, so don't bother with the above.....

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

Cant at this moment get you a photograph, I can provide you with a name of a RUC man who murdered innnocent people and a buddy of the DUPs Peter Robinson and was written to in prison by Ian Paisley and invited to join the DUP on release from prison,
Now you going to have to do some work yourself, Google Billy McCaughy RUC, UVF, killer

Thank you. That's that aspect sorted, and rest assured I'll suss that out and - like I said - would immediately disrespect and have no time for supposed representatives who choose to pose with killers

Unfortunately, I can't show my displeasure by not voting for the above, because they're not running for election here, but I will treat the above the same way as I would treat Sinn Fein.

And I trust that you will do likewise, and have the same view of both, since they have both posed with killers.