Sinn Fein these days

yomchi

Pal wrote: »

Agreed

Debater of the year - 2nd place.

Irlbo

Camelot wrote: »

Not forgetting the High Priest of Irish Republicanism, the 'Davros' of Sinn Fein, the Almighty IRA Demigod, the bearded commander of his black beret wearing Volunteers, the Supreme Republican, who carried many a coffin of dead Bombers after failed & successful 'Missions', hence the metaphorical whiff of sulphur off his tweed 'smoking' jacket )

Of course, these days he is just the President of SF.

Who is elected every year overwhemely by the community he represents,who is held in extremely high regard by republicans,socialists,community activists and all manners of people throughout the 32 counties,a man if he was in the running for president of the 26 counties would win overwhemely,this is the man who you are talking,tell me,which politician represents your political views and how well does he/she poll at elections?

K-9

Jon wrote: »

Debater of the year.

Somethings need no debate.

yomchi

ionix5891 wrote: »

power corrupts, none of the above would happen if they ever get into power

just look how quickly the greens abandoned their principles

any party that raises the corpo tax will take the floor from under our falling economy, im still waiting on an answer to that issue but seems the thread keeps turning into shouting match over part of another country that happens to share our isle and none of the issues affecting people here in the Republic are being addressed :mad:

Thanks for bringing the thread back to some political normality!
Yes this is a concern, but only if you create an economy totally dependant on multinational corportations, who have no interested in any countries economy and only exist to screw workers and make huge profits.

Let's look at the likes of Pakistan and regional parts of India where multinationals are in their droves. Take the likes of Nike, who make the trainers and the sports clothes. They are a multinational who are operating in countries where their workers are paid disgusting low wages, in inhuman working conditions. Nike are only there because they make most profit out of it. Does it care about working conditions or wages? Does it fcuk.

These same multinationals come to Ireland based on the same principles. Thankfully we are not as poor a country as some of the one's being exploited. That is why there are more technology based multinationals here than there are in the like of Pakistan, we have an educated work force.

But remember this, a multinational corporation will only go where the profit is. Hence why Dell upped and left, hence why Ericsonn are on the way, hence why Intel etc are now posturing. They are using the economic down turn to create a smoke screen to locate elsewhere, where the pay is less and the profit is more. They feck off out with the bank account over flowing, leaving a decemated work force behind.

You CANNOT build an economy on these people. Simply, it is unsustainable. Why? Because capitalism is a self destruct system. It will ALWAYS collapse an economy at some point - hence the term BOOM then BUST. It is a cycle, a common one at that.
There are other ways of running the economy, based on self reliance. Why can't we have a Silicon Valley? Why can't we have a booming Irish car industry, with so many homeless people in Ireland, why can't we have a nationalised work force of tradesmen building homes.
The answer is simple, because capatilism and it's bogeymen will say no. We are too reliant on what others say, do and think, and until that changes we will be children of Boom and bust years.

ionix5891

Jon wrote: »

Thanks for bringing the thread back to some political normality!
Yes this is a concern, but only if you create an economy totally dependant on multinational corportations, who have no interested in any countries economy and only exist to screw workers and make huge profits.

Ok my company (indigenous Irish grown, employing Irish) has to do business with companies here in Ireland such google, microsoft, adobe and other companies in US and EU

if these companies go, i would have no choice but to follow them, there are dozens of other small companies working with these large multinationals, SF would condemn thousand of people (if not more) to unemployment with something as simple as raising corpo tax, we already have 400,000 unemployed, whose gonna be left paying the taxes to support these people?

Jon wrote: »

There are other ways of running the economy, based on self reliance.

Cuba and Northern Korea are based on "self reliance" ask anyone living there for an opinion please

Jon wrote: »

Why can't we have a Silicon Valley?

my company is IT based, the costs of things such as bandwidth are 10x what you get on the continent or US, electricity is expensive, and there isnt enough educated people (alot of students opt for commerce and arty farty crap) in science and engineering

Jon wrote: »

Why can't we have a booming Irish car industry,.

a market of 2-3 million? there are cities across the world where Ireland would be the size of a suburb, business can not "boom" in a tiny closed market

Jon wrote: »

with so many homeless people in Ireland, why can't we have a nationalised work force of tradesmen building homes..

theres enough homes, the problem once again is greed, but taking homes from the rich and giving to the poor is communism (i see a general trend emerging in your post)

Jon wrote: »

why can't we have a nationalised work force of tradesmen building homes.

All hail comrade Stalin

Jon wrote: »

The answer is simple, because capatilism and it's bogeymen will say no. We are too reliant on what others say, do and think, and until that changes we will be children of Boom and bust years.

once again I would have to point out your are mixing up political and economic systems, even communist China is more capitalist than Ireland now, hell they dont have any socialist features that we do such as Dole and Medical Card

Liam Byrne

TOMASJ wrote: »

does that include british army regiments involved in the murder of innocent people in the six counties, Iraq, and Afghanistan,. and by association the british government and their supporters.

Where did I say that it didn't ?

Irlbo wrote: »

In what regard are Sinn Fein corrupt

If the McCabe murder was an IRA operation, then (while they would have been hypothetically due a release under the GFA) it would have meant that they broke the ceasefire; if it wasn't, SF had no reason to campaign for their release.

So the day someone from SF says for definite which it was, and stops switching over and back to suit itself, is the day they're starting to be credible.

Jon wrote: »

What about the rest of your points you made inaccurately, which I've read straight out of the Indo

They're my opinion. I don't read the "Indo".

Pal

Jon wrote: »

Debater of the year - 2nd place.

I see you are a mod and expect you would know better.

Perhaps some civil decorum to your fellow posters might be appropriate. thank you.

yomchi

ionix5891 wrote: »

Ok my company (indigenous Irish grown, employing Irish) has to do business with companies here in Ireland such google, microsoft, adobe and other companies in US and EU

if these companies go, i would have no choice but to follow them, there are dozens of other small companies working with these large multinationals, SF would condemn thousand of people (if not more) to unemployment with something as simple as raising corpo tax, we already have 400,000 unemployed, whose gonna be left paying the taxes to support these people?

It can be done. There are countries already and succesfully using a higher rate of corporation tax.

Sinn Féin's analysis is that cutting corporation tax is not the best way to create a favorable enterprise environment. It looks at the ability of the Nordic states, who hold five of the top ten positions amongst the most competitive economies in the world, and provides evidence in relation to the Nordic model which challenges the conventional wisdom that high taxes and large safety nets undermine competitiveness.


It is also not sustainable to compete with other states by engaging in a race to the bottom on corporation tax if we want to maintain and enhance the desired levels of public services and infrastructure.

More from here - http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13143

ionix5891 wrote: »

Cuba and Northern Korea are based on "self reliance" ask anyone living there for an opinion please

North Korea is a distaster. Kim Jong Il is a fruit case. North Korea is a prime example of how NOT to do it, they're philosophy of 'Juche' is good in principle but man have they failed miserably.
I've been to Cuba, it's a remarkable country and really shouldn't used in the same sentence as NK. They have a great structure for a country that has to create it's own sustainability. Remember they have a cruel trade embargo imposed on them from the USA.
Outside of that, they have free health care, a doctor assigned to every community, free education, free milk for every house hold that children reside, free doctor visits to house holds, state funded sports programmes - Cubans are exceptional sports people. And a very low crime level. I could go on.

ionix5891 wrote: »

my company is IT based, the costs of things such as bandwidth are 10x what you get on the continent or US, electricity is expensive, and there isnt enough educated people (alot of students opt for commerce and arty farty crap) in science and engineering

Another product of the system this country embraces.

ionix5891 wrote: »

theres enough homes

There are NOT enough AFFORDABLE homes. Try telling that to the 2000+ people who are homeless in Ireland, and to those living in shelters.
http://www.icsh.ie/eng/housing_in_ireland
http://www.mqi.ie/homeless_awareness1.htm

ionix5891 wrote: »

All hail comrade Stalin

Thats a silly comment, really. Stalin was a nut. He inherited a communist system that he went on to destroy. Lenin was the man :cool:

ionix5891 wrote: »

once again I would have to point out your are mixing up political and economic systems, even communist China is more capitalist than Ireland now, hell they dont have any socialist features that we do such as Dole and Medical Card

No no, you don't have to point it out to me chara. Whether a country is communist or capitalist this will be defined by it's fiscal policies as opposed to what it calls itself.

LordSutch

Mary Lou as Vice Pres, that'll be interesting )

Fratton Fred

so who is going to fund this world class car industry, or the army of builders? what companies are going to set up this silicon valley?

Are you also proposing Ireland pull out of the EU, it sounds to me like you are making proposals that contradict EU competition laws.

FTA69

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If the McCabe murder was an IRA operation, then (while they would have been hypothetically due a release under the GFA) it would have meant that they broke the ceasefire;

No it wouldn't because they weren't on ceasefire.

LordSutch

Dont forget that Garda McCabe was only 'one of many' Policemen murdered by the IRA.

K-9

FTA69 wrote: »

No it wouldn't because they weren't on ceasefire.

So was it an IRA operation?

yomchi

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so who is going to fund this world class car industry, or the army of builders? what companies are going to set up this silicon valley?

Are you also proposing Ireland pull out of the EU, it sounds to me like you are making proposals that contradict EU competition laws.

I nominate you to lead the world class car industry!

I'm not anti EU, as long as it's an EU that isn't heading down the road of empire status with a military force to match that of the US. I'm for a Europe for the people, not the business classes, not the Sarkozy's of this world, for you, me and Mrs Murphy down the road.

Vadrefjorde

I am anti EU if thats any help.

marco murphy

ionix5891 wrote: »

power corrupts, none of the above would happen if they ever get into power

just look how quickly the greens abandoned their principles

any party that raises the corpo tax will take the floor from under our falling economy, im still waiting on an answer to that issue but seems the thread keeps turning into shouting match over part of another country that happens to share our isle and none of the issues affecting people here in the Republic are being addressed :mad:

Sinn Fein is in power in the Assembly, or haven't you noticed.
Sinn Fein has a lot of elected reps all across the country. They haven't abandoned their principles.
The Greens jumped into bed with FF. Something that SF wouldn't do.

Liam Byrne

K-9 wrote: »

So was it an IRA operation?

Looks like that's going unanswered, K-9......however, given that a previous post excused it by saying "they weren't on ceasefire", we might draw our own conclusions*

*Only permitted by Jon if similar conclusions have appeared in The Indo, so that he can claim that they're not ours.

yomchi

Vadrefjorde wrote: »

I am anti EU if thats any help.

Care to say why? I'd be interested

yomchi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Looks like that's going unanswered, K-9......however, given that a previous post excused it by saying "they weren't on ceasefire", we might draw our own conclusions*

*Only permitted by Jon if similar conclusions have appeared in The Indo, so that he can claim that they're not ours.

Liam your posts are tiring now on this issue, and you really are trolling in a thread that is about Sinn Féin.
However, I will for the sake of facts (something you choose to ignore) remind you of the statement issued by the IRA after Jerry McCabe was shot dead.

The statement said that the IRA Army Council did not sanction the robbery that took place on that day. The IRA were not on cessation at the time, but this is what was said in a statement released by them at the time.

Googles a great thing, try use it.

K-9

Jon wrote: »

Liam your posts are tiring now on this issue, and you really are trolling in a thread that is about Sinn Féin.
However, I will for the sake of facts (something you choose to ignore) remind you of the statement issued by the IRA after Jerry McCabe was shot dead.

The statement said that the IRA Army Council did not sanction the robbery that took place on that day. The IRA were not on cessation at the time, but this is what was said in a statement released by them at the time.

Googles a great thing, try use it.

So why did they campaign for their release? The fact that it wasn't officially sanctioned makes it even worse.

Can you not see that?

yomchi

K-9 wrote: »

So why did they campaign for their release? The fact that it wasn't officially sanctioned makes it even worse.

Can you not see that?

Jeez, I hate having to educate you on the facts all time. Listen, do me a favour and go research what was going on at that time and come back to me.

ok?

ionix5891

Vadrefjorde wrote: »

I am anti EU if thats any help.

without the EU Ireland would be like a bigger badder version of Iceland now ...

anyways what can i say, SF are anti EU too, good thing no one listened to them at every EU referendum before god know where we would be now :rolleyes:

K-9

Jon wrote: »

Jeez, I hate having to educate you on the facts all time. Listen, do me a favour and go research what was going on at that time and come back to me.

ok?

You don't agree. Explain to the stupid. You seem to have a problem with logic on 2 threads now when it doesn't suit you. Personal abuse makes YOU look bad.

yomchi

ionix5891 wrote: »

without the EU Ireland would be like a bigger badder version of Iceland now ...

anyways what can i say, SF are anti EU too, good thing no one listened to them at every EU referendum before god know where we would be now :rolleyes:

Yeh! Imagined if they had of listened.. they just might have elected TWO MEP's on this Island... imagine. Good job they didn't listen hey, otherwise the Lisbon treaty would have been passed?

:rolleyes: Christ.

yomchi

K-9 wrote: »

You don't agree. Explain to the stupid. You seem to have a problem with logic on 2 threads now when it doesn't suit you. Personal abuse makes YOU look bad.

lol, now you claim personaly abuse. Where exactly?

You're tripping yourself up in two threads where you thought you knew everything except when reality and fact is placed in front of you, you go off on a tangent.
You quite obviously DO NOT know or remember the political posturing and events of 1996 when Jerry McCabe was shot. You either do not know, nor remember the relevance of statements issued by the IRA at the time nor understand the political climate approaching the 2nd ceasefire.
So instead of me clogging up your thread with facts, just go and search them out and then come back with your opinion, once you base your opinion on fact then your going somewhere, whether anyone agrees with it or not, you can rely on fact.

Deal?

K-9

Jon wrote: »

lol, now you claim personaly abuse. Where exactly?

You're tripping yourself up in two threads where you thought you knew everything except when reality and fact is placed in front of you, you go off on a tangent.
You quite obviously DO NOT know or remember the political posturing and events of 1996 when Jerry McCabe was shot. You either do not know, nor remember the relevance of statements issued by the IRA at the time nor understand the political climate approaching the 2nd ceasefire.
So instead of me clogging up your thread with facts, just go and search them out and then come back with your opinion, once you base your opinion on fact then your going somewhere, whether anyone agrees with it or not, you can rely on fact.

Deal?

Don't even need to do that. The robbery wasn't sanctioned as you posted yourself, no excuses.

SF campaigned for bank robbers release. Simple as. That is not the behaviour of an acceptable political party. Do all the whataboutery you want, a Guard was murdered and one seriously injured.

I see the distinction, you obviously don't. Think we'll leave it there and let others make their mind up.

yomchi

K-9 wrote: »

Don't even need to do that. The robbery wasn't sanctioned as you posted yourself, no excuses.

SF campaigned for bank robbers release. Simple as. That is not the behaviour of an acceptable political party. Do all the whataboutery you want, a Guard was murdered and one seriously injured.

I see the distinction, you obviously don't. Think we'll leave it there and let others make their mind up.

Case in point. It was a post office not a bank. No it wasn't sanctioned by the AC as they stated, but it was claimed as an IRA operation.
Do yourself a favour and read up on it, I'll take it up with you when you do.

Again, deal?

K-9

Jon wrote: »

Case in point. It was a post office not a bank. No it wasn't sanctioned by the AC as they stated, but it was claimed as an IRA operation.
Do yourself a favour and read up on it, I'll take it up with you when you do.

Again, deal?

LOL, An post, I give up if you are going to be that childish about it.

yomchi

K-9 wrote: »

LOL, An post, I give up if you are going to be that childish about it.

Nothing childish here. You just haven't a bogs even about the very simple parts of what you're trying to argue.

You have no clue, nor any facts.

K-9

Jon wrote: »

Nothing childish here. You just haven't a bogs even about the very simple parts of what you're trying to argue.

You have no clue, nor any facts.

We aren't going to agree. IMO, Morally there is no grey area. There is for you, not for me.

That does not mean I've no clue or don't know the facts. Any party that campaigns for the release of Garda murderers are wrong to me.

They are a step up from child abusers as far as I'm concerned, so we aren't going to agree.