HOPE & DREAMS versus REALITY & FACTS

Pocono Joe · 03-02-2009 4:12pm #1

How about a thread dedicated to what the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy guys or those evil Neo-Cons would deem DEMOCRAT HYPOCRISY, but what we, the “TRULY ENLIGHTENED ONES,” would prefer to call “I WON, SO SHUT UP AND LIVE WITH IT.”

HOPE and DREAMS
THERE WILL BE NO LOBBYISTS IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION
Mr. Obama barred officials of his administration from lobbying their former colleagues "for as long as I am president." He barred former lobbyists from working for agencies they had lobbied within the past two years and required them to recuse themselves from issues they had handled during that time.

REALITY and FACTS
FINE PRINT: BARACK OBAMA IS ALLOWED A MINIMUM OF ONE WAIVER PER DAY ON ANY STANDARD.
Barack Obama has already issued 17 exceptions to his no-lobbyist rules in less than two weeks. Some might considered this No-Lobbyist standard to be a sad joke played on the saps who fell for Obama’s grandiose vision, but in reality he is going to keep his promise and ban lobbyists from his administration - except when he isn't. That’s easy enough to understand, isn’t it?

Next up: Paying your taxes is a patriotic duty (but only when caught, and even then only when you are appointed to an Obama Administration post).

I dedicate this thread to the MIA PRESS.

Otacon · 03-02-2009 5:38pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Barack Obama has already issued 17 exceptions to his no-lobbyist rules in less than two weeks.

I'm sure you have one but source?

Pocono Joe · 03-02-2009 5:52pm

Otacon wrote: »

I'm sure you have one but source?

After all this time you still doubt I would state something without sources? (You’d think by now you would just take my information as being self-evident.)

Unfortunately you have to go all the way to the Times of India (India Daily) to find out about it. One might joke that it’s rather strange that you would have to go to India to find out this information about Obama’s Administration... AND I AGREE! And where is the US Media in all this... trying to grab some of that Stimulus money perhaps.
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/20471.asp

Overheal · 03-02-2009 7:19pm

So you don't think an Indian journalist might not have a colored view after Obama proclaimed to the Muslim World that the US was not their enemy? After all, this Adrian Nathan doesn't sound implicitly impartial in his rant.

Pocono Joe · 03-02-2009 7:41pm

Overheal wrote: »

After all, this Adrian Nathan doesn't sound implicitly impartial in his rant.

You’re right, this Adrian Nathan dude isn’t impartial at all... he hates G.W.Bush. And I quote “One good silver lining – if Obama Adminsitration’s corruption index is 10, Bush Administration’s was 95.” So if this information comes from a Bush hating author, just think how bad things must really be in the Obama Administration.

And in anticipation of the next question... here are 12 for you. I’ll let it up to ya'll to find the other 5 (at least).

Eric Holder, attorney general nominee, was registered to lobby until 2004 on behalf of clients including Global Crossing, a bankrupt telecommunications firm.

Tom Vilsack, secretary of agriculture nominee, was registered to lobby as recently as last year on behalf of the National Education Association.

William Lynn, deputy defense secretary nominee, was registered to lobby as recently as last year for defense contractor Raytheon, where he was a top executive.

William Corr, deputy health and human services secretary nominee, was registered to lobby until last year for the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, a non-profit that pushes to limit tobacco use.

David Hayes, deputy interior secretary nominee, was registered to lobby until 2006 for clients, including the regional utility San Diego Gas & Electric.

Mark Patterson, chief of staff to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, was registered to lobby as recently as last year for financial giant Goldman Sachs.

Ron Klain, chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden, was registered to lobby until 2005 for clients, including the Coalition for Asbestos Resolution, U.S. Airways, Airborne Express and drug-maker ImClone.

Mona Sutphen, deputy White House chief of staff, was registered to lobby for clients, including Angliss International in 2003.

Melody Barnes, domestic policy council director, lobbied in 2003 and 2004 for liberal advocacy groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, the American Constitution Society and the Center for Reproductive Rights.

Cecilia Munoz, White House director of intergovernmental affairs, was a lobbyist as recently as last year for the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group.

Patrick Gaspard, White House political affairs director, was a lobbyist for the Service Employees International Union.

Michael Strautmanis, chief of staff to the president’s assistant for intergovernmental relations, lobbied for the American Association of Justice from 2001 until 2005.

Now if you’re going to ask me for their spouses and children’s ages and birthdays in order to give credence to the information... then I must admit... you got me there.

Overheal · 03-02-2009 7:51pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

And in anticipation of the next question... here are 12 for you.

Touché.

So they're on-board but are they breaking these rules?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/12/siu.lobbyists/index.html

The rules, which transition co-chairman John Podesta announced Tuesday, bar federal lobbyists from contributing to or raising money for the transition effort. Those who leave the transition team will be barred for a year from lobbying the incoming administration on matters related to their transition jobs, and current lobbyists who join the team are barred for 12 months from working in policy fields related to their lobbying work.

Pocono Joe · 03-02-2009 7:59pm

To quote and old favorite...
"It all depends on what your definition of is is."

Overheal · 03-02-2009 8:04pm

.....k

well, he's hired lobbyists, we have to wait and see if they break the rules before we can pull out anybody's pubic hair.

Pocono Joe · 03-02-2009 8:58pm

Dang that Daschle... he probably saw my post warning of this impending notice about Paying Taxes as a Patriotic Duty... and just felt he had to drop out of running for Health and Human Services Secretary.

- - -
HOPE and DREAMS
Joe Biden insisted during the presidential campaign, that paying your taxes is a patriotic duty.

REALITY and FACTS
Joe might want to talk to his fellow Democrats about paying taxes. And knowing Joe, he might also consider paying higher taxes to be a religious obligation. Seems somewhat legitimate from a man who gave an average of $369 a year to charity over the previous decade.

And here’s the $64,000 question. Who said "Make no mistake, tax cheaters cheat us all, and the IRS should enforce our laws to the letter." If you said Tom Daschle... you are correct! Oooops, is that the same Tom Daschle who failed to pay more than $100,000 in back taxes? Well that is to say until he realized he might receive a job in the Obama administration.

And then there’s Tim Geithner, who was just confirmed and runs the Internal Revenue Service, who also failed to pay taxes he owed. I wonder if Obama would mind if I stopped paying taxes until he nominates me as Secretary of the Treasury.

Oh, I almost forgot about that kooky Rep. Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.), the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, who is under investigation for dodging taxes. I guess he was too busy writing the tax laws to pay them himself.

But I think its time to switch sides. If you’re a Republican and don’t pay your taxes, you wind up in jail. But if you’re a Democrat, then it’s just sad and disappointing, but not that big a deal... and you might get nominated to a top level administration post. Man, what a No-Brainer!

I guess it’s the ultimate in “DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO” (but we won’t call that hypocrisy, now will we

)

sceptre · 04-02-2009 1:49am

Pocono Joe wrote: »

If you’re a Republican and don’t pay your taxes, you wind up in jail.

What, like the Spirograph?

jank · 04-02-2009 2:58am

In fairness PJ there are loads of Republicans who are just as guilty of not paying taxes as as Daschle and co.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/manhattan-gop-leader-admits-tax-evasion/
http://alaskapride.blogspot.com/2008/04/rasmussen-poll-shows-alaska-republican.html

We could play this game all day and night, but gets one nowhere. Daschle has given up his nomintation and criminal charges should follow.

Pocono Joe · 04-02-2009 11:31am

sceptre wrote: »

What, like the Spirograph?

You had to go back 35 years to find one? And Agnew resigned, never to serve in government again... not get appointed to new gov't posts.

jank wrote: »

Daschle has given up his nomintation and criminal charges should follow.

Want to bet he doesn't get charged... not in the era of Obama?

Pocono Joe · 04-02-2009 3:43pm

The Senate is considering a $900+ (newest figure) billion bill designed to help a struggling US economy. But the Bill requires all "manufactured goods" purchased with stimulus money to be made in the United States. The House already has approved a bill mandating the use of domestic iron and steel.

HOPE and CHANGE
Labor Unions (one of the two biggest Lobbyists the Democrats are beholding to, with trial lawyers being the other) believe this requirement is just plain common sense at a time of economic crisis and rising unemployment. Spending billions of taxpayer dollars to get our economy up and moving again, it's obvious that money should be spent IN OUR ECONOMY.

REALITY and FACTS
Obama, is now backtracking saying “We can't send a protectionist message." But one has to question why this controversial provision was in the spending bill in the first place. The simple answer might appear to be that Obama is putting the wants and desires of Labor Unions ahead of our nation and a suffering global economy. But we all know this cannot be the case... it has to be something far more complex than that. We keep hearing how this Democratic Administration’s brain trust is so highly intelligent. Surely they knew it would breach U.S. trade commitments and trigger a spiral of retaliation actions from other countries... many of whom are our (so-called) allies. Surely they knew this type of protectionism measures worsened the Great Depression of the 1930’s.

Somehow I think this Buy American boondoggle is the workings of the evil Darth Vader himself – Dick Cheney. I don’t know how for sure he has done it (and may be better left to the conspiracy forum), but it just has to be the evil influences of Dick Cheney to undermine the Pelosi/Reed/Obama mandate from God... don’tcha think?

The only thing I know for sure is (being from an area home to the once great Bethlehem Steel), that if we incorporate the Buy American mandate, I will no longer be bitter, cling to my guns, my religion, antipathy to people who aren't like me, have an anti-immigrant sentiment, or anti-trade sentiment anymore.

sceptre · 04-02-2009 3:56pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

You had to go back 35 years to find one?

No, I just picked the most obviously extremely high-up one I could remember and find without going near google. Plus I used to have a spirograph as a child for some reason. I could have poked around a bit but I assumed someone else would. Jank knocked in a few links above.

jank · 04-02-2009 4:05pm

Mods can we get PJ his own soap box/Forum. Maybe we can move to humour as his characterisation of a redneck might get some laughs there, but not here.

Pocono Joe · 04-02-2009 4:14pm

Sceptre... I might be mistaken, but all or most have been removed from office... not recommended for newer higher gov’t offices.

Also do me a favor (that is if you do dare go near google). Look up Barney Frank (D) and Larry Craig (R), and look at their somewhat recent and similar woes. Where are they both now politically, what are their situations, and what are their outlooks?

Sure there are bad Republicans, but they are culled from office, not promoted.

Pocono Joe · 04-02-2009 4:34pm

jank wrote: »

Mods can we get PJ his own soap box/Forum. Maybe we can move to humour as his characterisation of a redneck might get some laughs there, but not here.

Oh come on. Isn’t it sort of like a train wreck... knowing full well there is carnage, but interesting nonetheless... and you just have to look. And at times does it not spark some good debate?

But Redneck??? How did you determine that?

jank · 04-02-2009 5:14pm

It sparks good debate sometimes but your posts, sorry propoganda and agenda gets very tiring after awhile. It is clear you have an agenda here.

I picture you as someone that would jump up and down if there was an attack on the US again (preferably by an ex gitmo prisoner) on obamas term. I know rush, sean and the ann coulters of this world pray for this every night.

I know that there were left wing nuts out there that wish Bush cancer and that he should be deported for war crimes and hung up to dry etc.

We or should I say I and MOST of us here are not like that.

Yet you deride us for being like that lecturing us in ways like teenager that has read a few too many books to really undestand them. You want to fit the character of a right wing nut jub to wind us up and retort against your extreme views. When most of us when it comes to US politics are centerists but have a more favourable view to the dems than the reps. So that immediately makes us left wing liberals who have no clue and dont get it.

But the thing is I dont believe you. I dont believe what you say is actually you but your right wing alter ego.

We get it but please stop lecturing us. Debate if you want but take a step back and stop the act.

Pocono Joe · 04-02-2009 7:49pm

jank wrote: »

It sparks good debate sometimes but your posts, sorry propoganda and agenda gets very tiring after awhile. It is clear you have an agenda here.

Guilty as charged I’m sure.

I picture you as someone that would jump up and down if there was an attack on the US again (preferably by an ex gitmo prisoner) on obamas term. I know rush, sean and the ann coulters of this world pray for this every night.

Wrong and Wrong! We all live here, Dem, Rep, Left, Right, and Moderate. We all want our President to do what is necessary to protect our citizens. That is what he takes an oath to do as President. I’m pretty happy with most of Obama’s choices on national security, but not so much Holder the AG. I feel it is partly my job to make sure Obama does his.

I know that there were left wing nuts out there that wish Bush cancer and that he should be deported for war crimes and hung up to dry etc.

I don’t remember you calling them out or sending them to the mother superior's office as you did me.

We or should I say I and MOST of us here are not like that.

Glad to hear it!

Yet you deride us for being like that lecturing us in ways like teenager that has read a few too many books to really undestand them. You want to fit the character of a right wing nut jub to wind us up and retort against your extreme views. When most of us when it comes to US politics are centerists but have a more favourable view to the dems than the reps. So that immediately makes us left wing liberals who have no clue and dont get it.

No I don’t. I feel I do the job at times of a press that is so fixated on Obama succeeding that they are not fulfilling their obligations. Yeah I do it in a mean spirited and often borish manner. There are only a few people here I would consider Left Wing Liberals, you not being one of them (well that is till now anyway.

)

But the thing is I dont believe you. I dont believe what you say is actually you but your right wing alter ego.

You mean Pocono Joe rather than just an average Joe with a red state mentality living in a blue state. Okay, I admit it, some of my schtick is over the top. You won’t send me off to Gitmo will you?

We get it but please stop lecturing us. Debate if you want but take a step back and stop the act.

Chill dude. Or just ignore me. It's not worth the aggravation to get all worked up over.

jank · 05-02-2009 11:24am

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Wrong and Wrong! We all live here, Dem, Rep, Left, Right, and Moderate. We all want our President to do what is necessary to protect our citizens. That is what he takes an oath to do as President. I’m pretty happy with most of Obama’s choices on national security, but not so much Holder the AG. I feel it is partly my job to make sure Obama does his.

What so there is something you approve of him doing?:eek:

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I don’t remember you calling them out or sending them to the mother superior's office as you did me.

They dont come to this forum with a flag that says "look at me, look at me!"

Pocono Joe wrote: »

No I don’t. I feel I do the job at times of a press that is so fixated on Obama succeeding that they are not fulfilling their obligations. Yeah I do it in a mean spirited and often borish manner. There are only a few people here I would consider Left Wing Liberals, you not being one of them (well that is till now anyway. )

Why not write a blog or something so. Most of use dont have a vote in any US election, so why bother coming on here so, if as you have said so many times minds wont change.

Pocono Joe wrote: »

You mean Pocono Joe rather than just an average Joe with a red state mentality living in a blue state. Okay, I admit it, some of my schtick is over the top. You won’t send me off to Gitmo will you?

There are all out to get you arent they

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Chill dude. Or just ignore me. It's not worth the aggravation to get all worked up over.

Maybe you should say this to yourself sometimes about those commie democrats.

Overheal · 05-02-2009 8:53pm

HOPE AND DREAMS
Poconoe Joe is an omniprescent being that has flown down from a higher plane of existence to enlighten us with his wisdom

REALITY AND FACTS
Poconoe Joe is just a Joe, and should probably stop using text formats like this to sound like he's Moses on 'roids. Come down off the mountain Joesus and join the rest of us by the warm fire of Mutual Discussion. You're more than welcome to it.

/had to scratch my funny bone. im done now.

Pocono Joe · 05-02-2009 9:27pm

Overheal, now you owe me a new keyboard. Good one.

Oh yeah... almost forgot... do you have a source for that?

Overheal · 05-02-2009 11:28pm

I have sources in heaven but I'm not at liberty to disclose them.

GuanYin · 06-02-2009 12:41am

Pocono Joe wrote: »

You’re right, this Adrian Nathan dude isn’t impartial at all... he hates G.W.Bush. And I quote “One good silver lining – if Obama Adminsitration’s corruption index is 10, Bush Administration’s was 95.”

So if this information comes from a Bush hating author, just think how bad things must really be in the Obama Administration.

Maybe the math is too complicated for me but.....
9.5 times less bad than the previous 8 years of republican rule??

GuanYin · 06-02-2009 12:43am

Jank, overheal.... debate the issues.

If you want to make it personal, take it to PM.

Pocono Joe · 06-02-2009 12:45pm

GuanYin wrote: »

Maybe the math is too complicated for me but.....
9.5 times less bad than the previous 8 years of republican rule??

Yeah I know what you mean about the math thing. If Obama’s is 9.5 less bad than Bush’s 8 years in only 14 days, I wonder what that calculates to in another 2,900 days.

When I read that almost half of the $900 billion stimulus package would end up in the pockets of Democratic-controlled unions, such as the Service Employees International Union, and federal, state, and municipal employee unions, I do wonder if it is just window dressing for a huge Democrat crap sandwich.

I saw Dick Durbin on the floor symbolically tear one page from the bill, complaining this is what the Republicans object to. My question is, if that’s all there is to getting bipartisan support, and it’s so small, then why not just get rid of the pork it represents?

Also, one has to wonder when Obama says it’s imperative we get the bill done within days, as the economy will collapse if quick passage is not completed, then he comes back and states he will not sign it if the bill is changed too much... I guess things aren’t so bad and quite imperative.

Currently Obama seems to be displaying the role of a quasi mediator in the process, which is admirable. But I keep going back to his history of talking one way and voting another. I hope he isn’t just putting on an act, letting Pelosi and Reed act as facilitators for an Obama socialist agenda. And letting them be the fall guys if it fails, while taking credit for the successes.

GuanYin · 06-02-2009 3:31pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Yeah I know what you mean about the math thing. If Obama’s is 9.5 less bad than Bush’s 8 years in only 14 days, I wonder what that calculates to in another 2,900 days.

In my experience, trends with unknown variables can go up or down, better or worse. Of course, if you try and skew it so it looks like the trend is going one way or another, you will usually succeed.

JohnMc1 · 17-02-2009 9:47pm

jank wrote: »

In fairness PJ there are loads of Republicans who are just as guilty of not paying taxes as as Daschle and co.

Yeah but our new President and controlling party are Democrats. And new President stated he wanted to usher in an era of "Honesty" and "Transparency"
as well as "Hope" and "Change" So far we haven't seen any of that.

Black Swan · 17-02-2009 10:22pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Next up: Paying your taxes is a patriotic duty (but only when caught, and even then only when you are appointed to an Obama Administration post).

"San Diego County officials, it turns out, have been sending out tax notices on the La Jolla property, an oceanfront condo, for four years without receiving a response. County records show the bills, which were mailed to a Phoenix address associated with Mrs. McCain's trust..."

Source: http://www.newsweek.com/id/143775

"Turns out that the man who was held up by John McCain as the typical, hard-working American taxpayer isn't really a licensed plumber. And court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes. 'Joe,' whose name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher..."

Source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6062246.html

Pocono Joe · 18-02-2009 1:00am

From your article, it looks like the Bank that manages the trust fell down on the job. Also the bank claims it had not been receiving tax bills on the property. Strange Newsweek didn’t list if the tax bills were sent to the bank’s address. It would be interesting to find out if the county was sending the bills to the wrong address. I highly doubt Newsweek would bother reporting on that if it is the case. Seems the McCains were unaware of the situation (can Obama’s administration picks say the same?) And it appears when the matter was brought up to the McCainn’s attention, they paid the bill.

And Blue, you got to get over your Joe The Plumber Derangement Syndrome. It’s not healthy for you.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/17/operation-destroy-joe-the-plumber/

Black Swan · 18-02-2009 10:34am

Pocono Joe wrote: »

And Blue, you got to get over your Joe The Plumber Derangement Syndrome. It’s not healthy for you.

Attempting to humour me? I see the craic in Republicans and Democrats pointing fingers at each other, claiming their rival is corrupt and they are completely innocent when it comes to the interpretation of the tax code regarding back taxes. Or receiving gifts, free flights to stay at posh resorts, and campaign contributions from rich donors, corporations, and special interest lobbies, claiming that such gifts or monies does not buy them. I believe the American two-party system of government has been totally corrupted, and in need of a complete overhaul, but I doubt that it will be changed any time soon, no matter what a politician says, be (s)he a Democrat or a Republican.

HOPE & DREAMS versus REALITY & FACTS

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