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Post Cowen Plan debate:

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    #182
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    truthflyer wrote: »
    The public sector have been ripping the rest of us off for years. Now they are crying like a bunch of spoiled brats - when they are asked to pay for their pensions. Public sector pensions are absolutely ludicrous. A retired public servant gets a pension equal to the salary of his replacement. If his replacement gets a payrise for that elusive concept called 'public sector productivity improvement' then the retired public servant will get a pension increase of the same amount. Then we have the ESB. The ESB have the highest paid employees in Europe in the sector. And how do they accomplish this, when half of them are idle-very simple - they charge the most expensive electricity in Europe. If you set up a windmill and asked to get paid for unused power, you would get a payment equal to 40% of what you get charged by the ESB - and you would have to pay a 200K "connection fee" even though you would have already been connected to the network in the first place - and even though in countries like Germany and Denmark there is none of this connection fee nonsense - to sell electricity to the grid. The system is completely rigged by vested interests in Ireland - including public sector trade unions and the interests of their careers....

    so far its all been very shouty shouty from you......whats your plan then? what do we do to get things back on track?


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    #183
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    The next step is to reduce the public sector workers by 70,000 or a 20% pay cut.

    The private sector has taken all the pain of this recession thus far.


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    #184
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    so far its all been very shouty shouty from you......whats your plan then? what do we do to get things back on track?

    and the fact that his example of a 'public sector vested interest' is a private company... :rolleyes:


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    #185
    Tripmann
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Tripmann


    truthflyer wrote: »
    The public sector have been ripping the rest of us off for years. Now they are crying like a bunch of spoiled brats - when they are asked to pay for their pensions. Public sector pensions are absolutely ludicrous. A retired public servant gets a pension equal to the salary of his replacement. If his replacement gets a payrise for that elusive concept called 'public sector productivity improvement' then the retired public servant will get a pension increase of the same amount. Then we have the ESB. The ESB have the highest paid employees in Europe in the sector. And how do they accomplish this, when half of them are idle-very simple - they charge the most expensive electricity in Europe. If you set up a windmill and asked to get paid for unused power, you would get a payment equal to 40% of what you get charged by the ESB - and you would have to pay a 200K "connection fee" even though you would have already been connected to the network in the first place - and even though in countries like Germany and Denmark there is none of this connection fee nonsense - to sell electricity to the grid. The system is completely rigged by vested interests in Ireland - including public sector trade unions and the interests of their careers....


    Are you actually serious with this post or did you forget to put the 'winky' smilie in?


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    #186
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    so far its all been very shouty shouty from you......whats your plan then? what do we do to get things back on track?

    That's easy, start blowing out public sector workers........


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    #187
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    So this is the easy part. When are the real cuts going to happen. In 2 months? You think its bad now. LOL!


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    #188
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Tripmann wrote: »
    Are you actually serious with this post or did you forget to put the 'winky' smilie in?

    At last justice for all. About time the public sector pays. They are not loosing their jobs like everyone else


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    #189
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    If public sector emplyees are so unhappy why don't they stop bitching and quit your jobs and get a job in the private sector.


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    #190
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    truthflyer wrote: »
    That's easy, start blowing out public sector workers........

    i see.........so we should sack a load of em, stick em on the dole and then.........pay through the nose for it all anyways. Interesting buddy.

    Any other plans? :rolleyes:


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    #191
    gnxx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭gnxx


    Take the FAS case for example.

    The various expense claims were either fraud or the internal auditing processes were flawed.

    If they were fraud -- I would expect the Gardai to perform a timely investigation.

    If it was an internal auditing problem, then I would expect both FAS and Dept. Of Finance to be firing people.

    In a private organisation, if it transpired that staff were abusing expenses or the guidelines allowed spouses to travel with employees, the staff involved and the accounting department would be advertising for new staff.
    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    As for the financial regulator, Central Bank and Dept of Finance, whose head would you like to see roll?


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    #192
    Tripmann
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Tripmann


    truthflyer wrote: »
    That's easy, start blowing out public sector workers........

    Public sector workers like the midwives who deliver your kids? Like the nurses who treat you in hospital? Like the gardai who protect you? Like the care-assistants who will wash you, clothe you and wipe your ar$e when you're old and infirm? Like the firemen who will pull your family out of a burning house? Like the dole office workers who will pay you if you end up like the people you want to lose their jobs?

    Do I need to go on?


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    #193
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    i see.........so we should sack a load of em, stick em on the dole and then.........pay through the nose for it all anyways. Interesting buddy.

    Any other plans? :rolleyes:

    Why if you work for the government have you an automatic right to extra benefits- its time to get real public wages have to be brought back in line, no life time employment and not guarnteed 100% pension- what planet are we living on its crazy. let the unions rot they obviously couldnt care less, when things are good they demand more when things are bad they also demand more.


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    #194
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    truthflyer wrote: »
    At last justice for all. About time the public sector pays. They are not loosing their jobs like everyone else

    You know, truthflyer, all you seem to do is rant. If you have nothing better to post than abuse of the public sector and the people who work in it, it might be a valuable contribution to the quality of debate if you stopped posting.

    It is a bad thing for a person in the private sector to lose a job or a business. You seem to suggest that it would be a good thing if it happened to somebody in the public sector.


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    #195
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    gnxx wrote: »
    Take the FAS case for example.

    The various expense claims were either fraud or the internal auditing processes were flawed.

    If they were fraud -- I would expect the Gardai to perform a timely investigation.

    If it was an internal auditing problem, then I would expect both FAS and Dept. Of Finance to be firing people.

    In a private organisation, if it transpired that staff were abusing expenses or the guidelines allowed spouses to travel with employees, the staff involved and the accounting department would be advertising for new staff.

    agree pretty much entirely. Is there not an ongoing investigation into this. But maybe the regulations within that organisation allowed for this sort of thing to happen. I suppose what I'm getting at is that root and branch reform needs to take place. Unfortunately during a recession is not the best time to do that. SHould have taken place years ago when money for redundancies and alternative employment were plentiful


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    #196
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Tripmann wrote: »
    Public sector workers like the midwives who deliver your kids? Like the nurses who treat you in hospital? Like the gardai who protect you? Like the care-assistants who will wash you, clothe you and wipe your ar$e when you're old and infirm? Like the firemen who will pull your family out of a burning house? Like the dole office workers who will pay you if you end up like the people you want to lose their jobs?

    Do I need to go on?

    Reality check......that it there job.........


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    #197
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. What a clamour from our public servants. This in contrast to the deafening silence and complicity of the same public servants with scandals in relation to the HSE, Financial Regulator,FAS etc, etc.ad infinitum. Sorry guys but as you sow......


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    #198
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    i see, so every worker in the public sector was complicit in such things?

    what you'd love now is for people to go on about bad things in the private sector that have happened, such as Anglo and then that'd stoke up the private Vs public debate again.

    your obviously not as stupid as some of your postings would suggest ;)


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    #199
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    The public sector should be paying at least 31% of their salary to qualify for these juicy pensions. Even with these new levies the public sector workers have their hands firmly in the pockets of the private sector workers. It's sickening....


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    #200
    Tripmann
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Tripmann


    truthflyer wrote: »
    Reality check......that it there job.........

    Reality check, whos going to do that job if you get your way?

    Have you anything useful to add or are you just going to keep trolling??


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    #201
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    Thanks truthflyer was a bit down after being hit with that new levy but you've cheered me up with your victor meldrew like ranting! Keep em coming bud!


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    #202
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    doncarlos wrote: »
    Thanks truthflyer was a bit down after being hit with that new levy but you've cheered me up with your victor meldrew like ranting! Keep em coming bud!

    exactly, he is on a wind up.


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    #203
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    doncarlos wrote: »
    Thanks truthflyer was a bit down after being hit with that new levy but you've cheered me up with your victor meldrew like ranting! Keep em coming bud!

    Happy to oblige, plenty more where that came from.....


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    #204
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    I think Eamonn Gilmore had it back on today during leader's questions, it should be about prevention rather than cure
    because when ireland loses another 180,000 jobs by the end of the year (and that's mr cowen's own words, sticking two fingers up to the working class by conceeding these job losses without a fight), that's going to be another €3.6bn that will have to be found from somewhere, and this could go on for another 4 years, by which point there will be no way back from whatever coalition takes over from fianna fail


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    #205
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    you think?


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    #206
    gnxx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭gnxx


    Probably. I would expect this report in 2012 and the conclusion will be "must do better". The conclusion will then be ignored until the next scandal.

    BTW: As I type this, I'm thinking that somewhere in the world, there is a high-ranking Irish civil servant and his lovely wife, sitting in first class on a BA flight, thinking "must get air-miles before 2012" :-) I'm joking obviously.

    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    Is there not an ongoing investigation into this.


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    #207
    bohsfc
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭bohsfc


    truthflyer wrote: »
    Weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. What a clamour from our public servants. This in contrast to the deafening silence and complicity of the same public servants with scandals in relation to the HSE, Financial Regulator,FAS etc, etc.ad infinitum. Sorry guys but as you sow......


    As a public servant I agree that there were too many scandals and failings and that created an unfair tarring brush for everyone.

    But all the failings were at the top and within the government and no heads roled which is so typical of our banana republic style of running the country. So until management and politicians attitudes change, nothing will change and we will never get out of this mess.


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    #208
    Dotsie~tmp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭Dotsie~tmp


    Tripmann wrote: »
    Public sector workers like the midwives who deliver your kids? Like the nurses who treat you in hospital? Like the gardai who protect you? Like the care-assistants who will wash you, clothe you and wipe your ar$e when you're old and infirm? Like the firemen who will pull your family out of a burning house? Like the dole office workers who will pay you if you end up like the people you want to lose their jobs?

    Do I need to go on?

    Public sector workers like the 3 supervisors who work on Saturday and Sunday in the hospital kitchen while 3 chefs (family member) who finish making the patients meals by 10am stand around till 2pm get paid a full day and given a day off (paid). Btw not one person actually comes into the kitchen on weekends. The chefs work hard and are well rewarded but WTF is up with 3 supervisors. How much are they costing.


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    #209
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Cut their pay! Immediately. A glance at these forums shows that the lazy, greedy sods have nothing to do but sit at their computers, during working hours, to whine in columns like these.


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    #210
    Tripmann
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Tripmann


    truthflyer wrote: »
    Happy to oblige, plenty more where that came from.....

    Great! Don't forget to stand up when you're pulling them out or you may do yourself an injury.......


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    #211
    truthflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭truthflyer


    Lets look at this rationally folks. What does the levy achieve? €1.4bn of an estimated €2bn required by Government next year. (Of course this amount is based on the estimates of the DoF Mandarins so expect it to come nowhere close to what is actually required) How is the pain being shared? Where is the equity in such a solution? The Public Service in this country can do us all a huge favour by taking to the streets because that is the only means by which a general election can be advanced. The clown shoes and santa hats running this economy constitute a royal family of sorts, priviliged children of political families who have zero real world experience. 85% of current sitting TD's are related to people who sat previously. Unless we radically alter the political landscape of this country immediately, I fear the worst.


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