C.I.D's and Pro-Rate

TheDriver

I agree, unless the principal put it in writing, then it means nothing

born2bwild

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What exactly does your 'Fixed Purpose' contract entail? How is it different from a Fixed Term contract? Do you get paid during the holidays? Are the hours your own?

I wouldn't be reliant on what the principal said. It's not in writing so it doesn't count. Also he's not the one giving out the contracts, the CEO is.

Why do you say the union is useless? Have you contacted them? Have you asked them to contact the VEC on your behalf to question your contract?

You haven't given enough information about your position for anyone to be able to advise you, but here is my take on it currently:

If you have been teaching in the school for four years without a break, the hours are all your own and this is your fourth year and you are contracted until August 2011 then you should be entitled to a CID in the 11/12 academic year. If they have paid you for work for four consecutive years that in itself constitutes a contract between you and the VEC, regardless of what the paper contract says. I am working off the assumption that those contracts run from Sept - August each year.

Perhaps if you could clarify the points above it would be easier to see what your position is.

The 22 hours I'm teaching are -on paper - someone's career break. In reality I'm teaching some stuff that that someone never taught since some of the subjects I'm teaching are new to the school - I'm the only person ever to have taught them in the school. Those constitute 6 hours of my timetable.
Union sucks because we should be out on strike right now, right away because the government smells weakness and is going to keep on taking. Sorry utterlly off-topic.

rainbowtrout

born2bwild wrote: »

The 22 hours I'm teaching are -on paper - someone's career break. In reality I'm teaching some stuff that that someone never taught since some of the subjects I'm teaching are new to the school - I'm the only person ever to have taught them in the school. Those constitute 6 hours of my timetable.

It doesn't matter what subjects you are teaching. As you said on paper they are someone else's hours. Once they constitute part of another teacher's timetable they are his/her hours. If they come back in the morning you will have no hours. Under those conditions you are not entitled to a CID.

From Circular 0050/2006

. An employer can refuse to award a cid if the post will not be viable within a reasonable period and this ground has been specified in writing in a previous contract or if the individual on a fixed term contract is covering for the holder of a post who is absent on an approved scheme of leave of absence.

This usually covers sick leave, maternity leave, career breaks and secondments.

A friend of mine taught in a school in Dublin for 8 years until May 2010. He then lost his job because the job he had arose from a teacher going on secondment to the Department. All those secondments were cut last year and the teacher returned this September. My friend was let go and had to look for another job. He had no recourse for a CID or anything because it was never his job to begin with.


In reference to what your principal said: you shouldn't read too much into it. He may not have been prioritising other staff. It may well be the case that he was expecting the teacher on career break to retire/resign their position and would have been in a position to offer you the hours as your own. This situation has not materialised and he is not in a position other than to offer you what you've had for the past three years.

born2bwild wrote: »

Union sucks because we should be out on strike right now, right away because the government smells weakness and is going to keep on taking. Sorry utterlly off-topic.

Not at all relevant to your situation. You have to start separating your opinion on what the union should be doing in the wider situation and what they can do for you within your school.

implausible

born2bwild wrote: »

Principal is vague about what happened but there is something very fishy going on.'It's not you' principal says cryptically, meaning I presume that other staff member(s) were prioritised somehow, someway?

Nothing fishy, the 'other staff member' is the returning career-breaker.

This is a rotten situation to be in, but I'm afraid that Rainbowtrout is right. This is a serious information vacuum when you have been in this job four years without realising that you could never get a CID out of it. It's hateful, but not illegal and it's what's on paper that counts.

Is there a chance that the career-breaker might not come back? You might be in with a chance of working up to a CID if s/he does not return.

born2bwild wrote: »

Union sucks because we should be out on strike right now

Have you not noticed that the country is in the sh*tter?

Dionysus

ulysses32 wrote: »

People here seem to know a lot about CID contracts. I currently have a CID contract on full hours and have had since the inception of the FTW Act.
Is this contract a permanent contract under a new name or should I still be looking for permanent vacancies?

I'm also very interested in the difference between a CID contract and a permanent contract. Why, in particular, are permanent contracts often being replaced by the CID contract?

rainbowtrout

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm also very interested in the difference between a CID contract and a permanent contract. Why, in particular, are permanent contracts often being replaced by the CID contract?

Don't know if it's earlier in this thread or in a different thread that there was a bit of debate on CID: Permanent or not?

On one hand we are told it's the same as permanent, on the other one little word in the wording of what a CID is changes that. It says a CID is in effect the same as a permanent contract. Now to me that means it's pretty much the same but at the same time it's not the exact same.

VECs (don't know about Department schools) are still advertising jobs as Permanent so they obviously see a difference. Why not advertise CID jobs?

If you are to take the meaning that CID is not exactly the same as permanent well then there must be a get out clause that allows schools to leave teachers go that have CID contracts. No case has come up yet but maybe if there are more cutbacks in the next year or two we will see some.

I know that the allocation for my school is broken down into Permanent, CID and Part time staff. If CID is supposed to be the same why differentiate in the allocation?

born2bwild

deemark wrote: »

Nothing fishy, the 'other staff member' is the returning career-breaker.

This is a rotten situation to be in, but I'm afraid that Rainbowtrout is right. This is a serious information vacuum when you have been in this job four years without realising that you could never get a CID out of it. It's hateful, but not illegal and it's what's on paper that counts.

Is there a chance that the career-breaker might not come back? You might be in with a chance of working up to a CID if s/he does not return.


Have you not noticed that the country is in the sh*tter?

Yes I have noticed that the country is in the poops but we did not put it there. It's utterly off-topic as I said, but if we don't become more miltant then this government is going to devastate teaching as a profession. Ten years from now we'll be no better off than shop assistants.

implausible

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm also very interested in the difference between a CID contract and a permanent contract. Why, in particular, are permanent contracts often being replaced by the CID contract?

This has been done to death: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055981213&highlight=permanent

Toto Wolfcastle

born2bwild wrote: »

Yes I have noticed that the country is in the poops but we did not put it there. It's utterly off-topic as I said, but if we don't become more miltant then this government is going to devastate teaching as a profession. Ten years from now we'll be no better off than shop assistants.

Going on strike will do nothing. If cuts have to be made cuts will be made. Anyway, going on strike will just end up saving the government money by not paying us so I'm sure it would be a bit of a bonus at the moment.

Regardless of your opinion of what the unions should or should not be doing the reality here is that they can't help you. Unless the teacher that you are covering for decides they do not wish to return to teaching they will be that teacher's hours and you will not get a CID.

born2bwild

Janeybabe...Suffice it to say our positions on industrial relations diverge...however, on my contract I fear we're in agreement.:mad:

longlooker

Hi

I am a 'tutor' with a VEC and am waiting for my CID. They are dragging their heels.....My question is this. I expect to get a CID for 18hrs. I am told that I will not get paid during the hols, xmas, Easter or summer, so, therefore I will have to sign on, is this correct? Also, as a tutor (and not a teacher) I cannot (I'm told) apply for a 22hr conversion contract. It is all so confusing. I do have a degree and a masters

Thank you

Powerhouse

implausible wrote: »

Have you not noticed that the country is in the sh*tter?

In all fairness you are inverting logic. Industrial relations issues have always tended to rear their heads precisely when the country is in the sh*tter. If the country were in the pink with bags of money, creating loads of new jobs and not cutting salaries then it is unlikely that the word 'strike' would ever be mentioned.

Just heard on the radio now that the CEO of IRBC (Anglo Irish's new name) has a base salary of €500k, allowances of €38k, and a pension of €120. This is the bank that brought the country to its knees. This in a country where - as someone on the radio mentioned last night - Leo Varadker is on the same salary as David Cameron. Gulp! If we need to remind people that the country is in the sh*tter maybe we could start with the likes of these chaps.

The average teacher with mad future aspirations like having a full-time job with a full salary (who do they think they are anyway:rolleyes:) will get a constant reminder of where the country is when they look at their salary slip.

Powerhouse

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm also very interested in the difference between a CID contract and a permanent contract. Why, in particular, are permanent contracts often being replaced by the CID contract?

I can't directly answer the question but one obvious difference is that a Permanent contract implies full hours, a CID contract does not. Someone could have a CID for, say, 15 hours, thereby getting 15/22 of full salary.

Godge

Powerhouse wrote: »

I can't directly answer the question but one obvious difference is that a Permanent contract implies full hours, a CID contract does not. Someone could have a CID for, say, 15 hours, thereby getting 15/22 of full salary.

CID and permanent are one and the same in pay, pension, terms and conditions.

The only difference is that a CID refers to permanency gained by the effluxion of time in accordance with the 2003 Act whereas a traditional permanent post was permanent from the start.

rainbowtrout

Godge wrote: »

CID and permanent are one and the same in pay, pension, terms and conditions.

The only difference is that a CID refers to permanency gained by the effluxion of time in accordance with the 2003 Act whereas a traditional permanent post was permanent from the start.

But what Powerhouse is saying is not wrong. A permanent teacher would have full hours. A CID may have full hours but their CID can be for less than full hours also.

rainbowtrout

longlooker wrote: »

Hi

I am a 'tutor' with a VEC and am waiting for my CID. They are dragging their heels.....My question is this. I expect to get a CID for 18hrs. I am told that I will not get paid during the hols, xmas, Easter or summer, so, therefore I will have to sign on, is this correct? Also, as a tutor (and not a teacher) I cannot (I'm told) apply for a 22hr conversion contract. It is all so confusing. I do have a degree and a masters

Thank you

That doesn't sound right. If you get a CID you will be paid during the holidays. That is the whole point of it: security.

While I'm not looking to know where you work, what kind of work do you do as a tutor? Is it in a PLC centre, Youthreach etc?

Have you been paid during the holidays for your last four years of contracts?