some help is/are

qt9ukbg60ivjrn

"The reason for this is that there is a finite number of questions."

"The reason for this is that there are a finite number of questions."

Which one and why?

Thanks

FlutterinBantam

"Is" I'd have to say myself

Not too confidently however.

I'd base it on "finite number" which is singular and which is the object of the sentence.

Good question sir.

Permabear

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qt9ukbg60ivjrn

donegalfella wrote: »

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but not me!:rolleyes:

thanks for the help people

deman

There are a... Wrong.
There is a... Correct

Simple as

MathsManiac

My first reaction was exactly the same as Donegalfella's. There is no doubt that "A number of [plural noun]" takes the plural and "The number of [plural noun]" takes the singular, as any number of references will tell you. But I think that this does not necessarily imply that "A [modifier] number of..." should always take the singular.

My reason for suggesting this is as follows. The reason that "a number of" takes the plural is that it's considered to be more or less synonymous with the quantifier "some". The group of words (including the governed noun) is considered to be a noun phrase with plural force. This is because the weight of meaning in the phrase is more on the noun than on the word "number". However, if you insert an adjective or other modifier into "a number of", you can, I would argue, disrupt this sense and shift the emphasis back onto the word "number", depending on the modifier and the context.

If, for example, the sentence continued as follows, then the singular would surely be necessary:
"The reason for this is that there is a finite number of questions, and it can be determined by simply counting those questions."

Even with a given adjective, I think you'd have to look at the whole sentence. For example, "a large number of" still takes the plural most of the time, and I think that this is because it is almost as familiar a modifier as "a number of". E.g., "A large number of people are worried about their jobs these days." However, I think singular is required here: "For the purposes of marching on the Dáil, a large number of people is more desirable than a small number." (It's not the people that are desirable but the number!)

In the OP's example, it's tricky without the surrounding sentences to be sure about the context, but it seems to me the sentence is almost meaningless if you delete the word "finite"; it becomes an incomplete thought, begging for more. This is why, in this sentence, it's hard to say that "a finite number of" is playing a role that is sufficienly like "a number of" to warrant plural force. It seems to me that the main purpose of the sentence is to tell us something about the number, which is not usually true in constructions with "a number of".

In pondering possible contexts, I imagined the sentence might have been in a paragraph like this:

My inquisitiveness sometimes annoys Dad, even though he's a scientist himself. I keep asking him stuff because he seems to know everything, although yesterday I'm sure he was wrong. Any meaningful sentence in English surely has less than, say, a hundred words, and there certainly aren't infinitely many English words. So he was wrong to say that my bloody questions were never-ending. They aren't never-ending. The reason for this is that there is a finite number of questions. It might be a very big number, but it is certainly finite.

Conclusion: I'm plumping for the singular here.

Permabear

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The Raven.

I must say that there are a few very intelligent posts in this thread, and it is indeed a good question. Generally speaking, there is a considerable amount of opposing views on the matter. There are a number of things to be considered, but there is not an infinite number of choices, nevertheless.

In my view, it all depends on which noun is the object to which the verb ‘is’ relates.

Thus, if the adjective ‘finite’ is removed, there is no doubt that the verb would be plural i.e. ‘there are a number of questions’, as the object phrase would be the plural ‘number of questions’. However, if the adjective is used, it emphasises the word ‘number’ as the object, which is singular.

Therefore, I would say: ‘…there is a finite number of questions.’

Alternatively, one could say: ‘…there are not infinite numbers of questions.’

However, some of this may seem contradictory and my spell checker doesn’t entirely agree with me :D.

Permabear

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FlutterinBantam

The Raven. wrote: »

I must say that there are a few very intelligent posts in this thread, and it is indeed a good question. Generally speaking, there is a considerable amount of opposing views on the matter. There are a number of things to be considered, but there is not an infinite number of choices, nevertheless.

In my view, it all depends on which noun is the object to which the verb ‘is’ relates.

Thus, if the adjective ‘finite’ is removed, there is no doubt that the verb would be plural i.e. ‘there are a number of questions’, as the object phrase would be the plural ‘number of questions’. However, if the adjective is used, it emphasises the word ‘number’ as the object, which is singular.

Therefore, I would say: ‘…there is a finite number of questions.’

Alternatively, one could say: ‘…there are not infinite numbers of questions.’

However, some of this may seem contradictory and my spell checker doesn’t entirely agree with me :D.

I think I agreed with you in four lines in post number 2:D

The Raven.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I think I agreed with you in four lines in post number 2:D

Actually, I agreed with you at first, but then Donegal put forward some interesting points, so I decided to have a rethink about it. Finally, I went back to my original decision, which concurred with your argument !!

The Raven.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't know what to make of that. It certainly puts a spanner in the works. Perhaps the proofreader is hedging his/her bets !!

MathsManiac

The Raven. wrote: »

I don't know what to make of that. It certainly puts a spanner in the works. Perhaps the proofreader is hedging his/her bets !!

...or maybe just missed it!