All that hard work, gone ..

patftrears

Neiler21 wrote: »

Hi,

Ive got a full excel sheet of projections done,maybe it would be easier to pm to you ? and any feeback would be good, even if it is not going ahead now.

to answer your questions, in the expenditure we tried included every possible cost and tried to be as modest and realistic as we could with all the projections,

staff - €2,016 per month = €24,192 per year
electricity - €600 per month = €7,200 per year
rent - €2,500 per month = €30,000 per year (had an agreement with the landlord that we would pay no rent for the first 7 months)
Insurance - €300 per month = €3,600 per year
Rates - €167 per month = € 2,004 per year
Phone/Broadband/Supplies - €400 per month = € 4,800 per year
Advertising - €250 per month - € €3,000 per year
Entertainment Machines (kids) - €660 per month - €7,920
Maintenance - €1,000 per month = €12,000 per year
Miscellaneous (inc hygiene) - €500 per month = €6,000 per year
Loan repayments (from set up costs) - €1,200 per month = €14,400 per year

Note : Loan Repayments from set up costs based on €120,000 over 10 years

Bowling Alley - Weekly Monthly

monday - thursday : €576 - €2304

friday €900 €3,600

saturday €1,080 €4,320

sunday €936 €3,744

Total Bowling €3,492 €13,968


Pool Tables

monday - thursday €50 €200
friday €96 €384
saturday €64 €256
sunday €96 €384

Total Pool €306 €1,224


Entertainment Machines

monday - thursday €100 €400
friday €100 €400
saturday €150 €600
sunday €200 €800

Total Entertainment €550 €2,200

Vending Machines €200 €800
(50% off income to supplier)

Total Income = €4,548 €18,192


Comments :

bowling alley- monday - friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night
friday - based on 4 persons at €6 for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night
saturday - based on 4 persons at 6 euro for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night + 3 persons at 6 euro for 4 lanes * 5 hrs during day
sunday - based on 4 persons at 6 euro for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night + 3 persons at 6 euro for 4 lanes * 5 hrs during day


Projected Turnover = € 225,568

Projected Profit = € 62, 452

Target market - teens - young adults - familys

our bowling alley would be great for a family day out and has the benefit of having the new kids adventure centre newly opened and doing very well,next door,combining both would bring alot of spotlight on this area,thus increasing possible profits.

Why come to our bowling alley- Its simple, for a fun day out, nice relaxed home away from home atmosphere with the latest in kids machines aswell as bowling of course,and being there is no other bowling alley within a 40 minute distance of this, would be very welcome in town (which has been stated in 2 recent local newspapers where they took to the streets to ask people "what does this town need and what would you like to see" 80% said Bowling Alley,market is without a doubt there.

start-up costs aren't of huge importance if you have a profitable, cash generating business.
If the income is good you can get a the loans to cover them.

OP - can you break down the bowl income for me, I can understand them
"Friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night"
is it ????
5(customers) * 6(charge per lane) * 3(number of lanes) x 2 hrs

2k salary is barely more than minimum wage for one person.

EDIT: break it down like the attached, banks will stress test these figures down to 20%
You need to know how many people you need through the door
How much they will spend
You could run the business for a year and realise, the pool tables make more money and you would have saved massive set-up costs by opena pool hall instead.

Neiler21

stepbar wrote: »

It's no wonder banks are negative towards startups. I mean are some people living in dreamland or what?

I look at some of the figures there and think to myself WTF???

Like for example how many lanes are in this place? A T/O of 225k in the first year :eek: Do you plan to give yourself a wage? It's not just as simple as saying you're going to spend X on maintence / miscellaneous / advertising per month etc without knowing what you would have to spend it on. You would nearly need to know the nuts and bolts of a machine in a bowling alley. How much does it cost to service? how often does it have to be done based on an average usage cycle? What media are you going to use for advertising because some are effective and others are useless for your target market. Simply saying that an advert in the local paper once a week is not good enough when building up a contact list on bebo / facebook might be as effective. My point is that there's as many questions as answers. You need someone who can take a good cold hard view on things, someone who is not involved as you are and who can give a view based on a lack of bias.

sorry but what are you talking about? i think those figures are very modest to say the least, and maintenance was added in those figures at costing €1,000 per month,we both know it wont cost that each month,maybe the odd month you will have trouble with a machine but not each month will you spend that money on it, that's the best part of a bowling alley business, it continues to generate revenue on the same equipment week after week, month after month, year after year. The bowling equipment requires virtually no inventory. Everything you do is paid cash or credit card. No chasing people for money. This is why it's such a great investment if it is done correctly, as for your advertising comment, who mentioned a simple paper once a week, as i sure didn't, i said on average we PROJECT to spend €250 per month on advertising,this will cover us for a weekly slot in our 3 local newspapers aswell as the odd slot maybe once a month on the radio, aswell as sites like bebo and facebook both of which ive been a member of since they started, as we know word of mouth is also a great tool and will be effective also.

I find it hard to see why you and some others in here feel the need to attack, ive explained as best i can and if you read my last post it says how we calculated our initial start up costs wrong,solely because of a companys inacurate estimate,still on our behalf we should have known better,that being said, as this project isnt going ahead we feel we have learned from any mistakes made and it can only be of benefit to us in any future venture.

Neiler21

patftrears wrote: »

start-up costs aren't of huge importance if you have a profitable, cash generating business.
If the income is good you can get a the loans to cover them.

OP - can you break down the bowl income for me, I can understand them
"Friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night"
is it ????
5(customers) * 6(charge per lane) * 3(number of lanes) x 2 hrs

2k salary is barely more than minimum wage for one person.

EDIT: break it down like the attached, banks will stress test these figures down to 20%
You need to know how many people you need through the door
How much they will spend
You could run the business for a year and realise, the pool tables make more money and you would have saved massive set-up costs by opena pool hall instead.

I broke them down to read as " figures based on 5 persons at 6 euro per person for lanes,for 2 hrs a night " etc . . these are pure projections from our behalf, we sat and tried to be realistic and think "right, from our experience of bowling alleys over the years and recent months as we have spent alot of time in time checking numbers etc, we believe our 6 lanes will be full on a friday,saturday and sunday evening from the hours 5 pm - 11 pm closing time"

as said, they are projections after all and none of us have that crystal ball to look into to tell us exactly how much we will make, but what we can do is calculate as best and realistic as we possibly can, and i believe we done that with those figures, i will add that i cant take sole credit for these projections either, my sister in law who is well clued up on her excell skills lol, is a project manager for the HSE and gave some great insight and help in calculating these figures up with myself.

Neiler21

patftrears wrote: »

start-up costs aren't of huge importance if you have a profitable, cash generating business.
If the income is good you can get a the loans to cover them.

OP - can you break down the bowl income for me, I can understand them
"Friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night"
is it ????
5(customers) * 6(charge per lane) * 3(number of lanes) x 2 hrs

2k salary is barely more than minimum wage for one person.

EDIT: break it down like the attached, banks will stress test these figures down to 20%
You need to know how many people you need through the door
How much they will spend
You could run the business for a year and realise, the pool tables make more money and you would have saved massive set-up costs by opena pool hall instead.

Attached are the financial projections.

stepbar

I see 48k in the first year start up costs would pay youse 2 wages. In other words a little under half the money you would borrow would go back to yourself. Seriously, is it any wonder the bank knocked you back?

Bandara

Neiler

I'm not having a pop at you here but them figures are so off the beam its a blessing that you never got this project setup.

I've only given it a brief look but you have one member of staff employed (other than 2 directors)?

You have 14 shifts a week to cover, also your lone staff member has 6 weeks off a year, at least another week off sick. So 7 weeks a year you have no staff other than you two. Your wage budget would be much more realistic at 60k minimum.

Even then this leaves you with only ever having one staff member on duty. You think that this is safe? On a Thurs/Friday/Sat/Sun night when you have groups of 16-20 years olds with drink on them all grouped in a totally unploiced environment that your not goign to have World War 3 basically every night? Also with no one walking the floor and supervising things they are ALL going to bring alcohol in with them which will lead to more trouble, and will make your place a complete no go for people who will be intimidated by the scenario.

As has been said I'd imagine the actually fitout costs should be closer to €250k.

You have electricity at 7200 a year, I'd at least triple that.

Security system? Going to set you back about 12k for the basic basic system (which would not be sufficient for your type of business), and it'll cost you about 2k a year to maintain it. And your monitoring service will cost about a grand a year.

Finally you have turnover starting at full trading figures from month one??? You'll be lucky to do half of that for the first 3 months.

So that means your going to have a negative bank balance of about 15k, then the bank will be ringing you at 9am every morning wanting to know exactly how much your lodging that day. They will phone you every single morning.

Honestly, your blessed this didn't happen. The bank would never have even considered giving finance for a project like this without a minimum of 40% stake money from you. And I actualy think they'd look for 50%.

You can take this whatever way you want, I have nothing but admiration at you going for it, but you have to accept the reality, you spent 18 months on this but went in utterly unprepared and not understanding any of the business. Neither of you have ever worked in a Bowling Alley I presume? I know nothing about the business but I bet you its an awkward bast**d to run at times. Why didn't you get a job in a bowling alley for the last 6 months? For all you know you might absolutely hate the business.

Anyway, pick yourself up, accept you made a balls of it, dust yourself down, and go again.

Good luck.

p.s. You paying yourselves a total of 48K in year one????? Come on mate.

stepbar

Great post there Hammertime.

Chonker

OP you have just made it so easy for these guys to have a pop at you maybe myself included but then I thought....... your plans were pretty flawed thats true but you are 22. I currently work with 20 - 25 year olds and not many of them would have the neck to get as far as you did which is pretty much just a plan, a dream & some projections. You are 22 mate I was told I couldn't do it either after my first failed business and my projections were in dreamland like yours. I left school at 16 had a child at 19, two jobs and very little else but a silly dream to build my own business. I'm 35 now, not super wealthy but have more than most and I have it because one day I wrote a stupid spreadsheet which made a hell of a lot less sense than yours did.

Take the cr8p and eat a bit of humble pie on this one but kudos to you for even trying.

People who believe will always shine at some stage. Dont ever get offended by people knocking your plan's or hard work. I really believe you will not win untill you fail many many times.

Seriously good luck.

jack90210

My one question I can't get out of my head is how it took you 18 months of your life to arrive at this point? Please tell me you were doing something else with your time during this period. Your financial projections look extremely rough and amateurish. I.e. it's only for one year, no investment decision estimators etc etc. Also, it seems all the market research you did was read in the local rag that 80% of people want a bowling alley more then anything else. They could have asked only 10 people, there might have been only 3 options on the survey etc etc. That's not market research.

Also, €120K to start a bowling alley come on now that's crazy stuff and with your inital investment only 1/12 of this clearly wrong figure you were never even at the peak of the boom of booms going to get this loan. Average people (i.e. not multimillionaires) don't just open bowling alleys, supermarkets, cinemas, ice skating rinks etc. because the inital investment so high. If your still convinced you can run a successful bowling alley go to the rich guy and see if he will fund it.

Perhaps you should go to college and do a business course.

By the way I really admire your spirit etc but your spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill.

Also, about people ringing you "gloating". Maybe they were just letting you know not to go ahead with any investment surely knowing someone else was planning on doing the same thing was relevant info. If I had a "great" business idea I wouldn't go around telling the world about it either btw!

Neiler21

stepbar wrote: »

I see 48k in the first year start up costs would pay youse 2 wages. In other words a little under half the money you would borrow would go back to yourself. Seriously, is it any wonder the bank knocked you back?

never approached a bank.

Vertakill

I think there's a lot of harsh words being thrown about but ultimately, they're pretty accurate, especially Hammertime's post.

The first thing that came to mind while reading this was.. What exactly have you done in the last 18 months? I'm not trying to knock you here but I did expect to hear that you'd done some serious work or lost serious money when I read the topic. You've gotten off very lightly.

The basics of the spreadsheet could've been knocked out in 1 night, leaving you a few nights of possible research where you monitored the average day in a bowling alley. Whether that be just lurking around a bowley alley all day examing how one is actually run, or getting a job there as Hammertime has stated.
Then a couple of days where you rang around getting quotes from companies.

Going by the initial plans, you would be working incredibly long hours without any breaks and you would also be earning very little money. This would be incredibly draining mentally and physically.

Also, bowling alleys can be a haven for scumbags so security would be absolutely paramount (and costly) if you were to stop families avoiding the place due to being intimidated.


As most people have mentioned, the first attempt is rarely successful and thankfully, you may have dodged a very big bullet here.


Fair play to you though - I'm 23 and wouldn't have the balls to do anything like this.
With your ambition, creativity and a little more experience... god knows what you could do!

stepbar

Neiler21 wrote: »

so this left us with the banks, I spoke to a good friend who works in a local bank and told him how we need €120,000 to get this open and he told me there is no way any bank would give us that amount, not in today's climate, no chance,

From your spreadsheet: *Note: Loan Repayment from set up costs based on 120,000 over 10 years*

I never said you did, but you based your projections on getting a loan and did mention it above.
The biggest mistake wannabe entrapreneurs make is trying to figure out much they should pay themselves. This will not wash well with anyone providing startup money. If anything you should be paying yourself little or nothing!

Neiler21

Chonker wrote: »

OP you have just made it so easy for these guys to have a pop at you maybe myself included but then I thought....... your plans were pretty flawed thats true but you are 22. I currently work with 20 - 25 year olds and not many of them would have the neck to get as far as you did which is pretty much just a plan, a dream & some projections. You are 22 mate I was told I couldn't do it either after my first failed business and my projections were in dreamland like yours. I left school at 16 had a child at 19, two jobs and very little else but a silly dream to build my own business. I'm 35 now, not super wealthy but have more than most and I have it because one day I wrote a stupid spreadsheet which made a hell of a lot less sense than yours did.

Take the cr8p and eat a bit of humble pie on this one but kudos to you for even trying.

People who believe will always shine at some stage. Dont ever get offended by people knocking your plan's or hard work. I really believe you will not win untill you fail many many times.

Seriously good luck.

Great Post Hammertime, I agree with you, as you have seen over my posts I know i have made mistakes in what i have done so all the critism i have been given has been vindicated, that being said you live and you learn, i have certainly learned.

Chonker - thank you very much, very sensible and straight talking replies from you all the way through this thread, i have messed up, i was careless and didnt inspect every aspect of the area i wanted to go into and by the fact i never worked in a bowling alley meant i really should have done alot more homework i guess, but lesson learnt, pride is dented but my spirit is not. Delighted to hear you have done well for yourself and I wish you continued success for the future.

Jack90210 - The last 18 months have not been spent with me just getting to a business plan and some research done, I participated in and completed a " start your own business course" which ran for 6 months, just to add to our experience and learn abit more about business in general and it did just that, so im pleased i done it, about your research remark, i`ll give you a tip now, never assume anything, you assumed that all i have done research wise was go to a paper who had printed that 80% of people in my town would like to see a bowling alley,well no, my partner and I, spent 2 full weeks visiting every major college in our town, thats 4, and asking them all to fill in our questionaire relating to what they would like to see and the results were 8 out of every 10 students said "bowling alley or some form of leisure activity like go karting". I have to say I have no problem with constructive critism what so ever, as its the only way we learn but I didnt like your comment >> "you spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill" , very sorry I have not got to your level of business, excuse me please as I am 22 and learning every day, more and more, when I get to your level maybe we can talk,right? get off your high horse!!! you know what i find funny about that though, one of my main mentors not only in business but life in general up to this point has been my brother, when my old man died in 1994 he took me under his wing since and has seen my want for nothing, hes been a rock,a true gent, always there to give great advice when i ask him and he told me some months back in fact that when he was starting off in business 15 years ago, he, like me, was at the bottom of the ladder and someone made a remark about his business acumen, similar to your remark, (thats what made me think about it) and he said it was true, but he never made on to anyone that he did know it all, just like i have done here, i held my hand up and admitted i was wrong, well today he owns a business valued at €4 million and with a number of propertys in this town, spain and a big devolpment in poland for a apartment complex coming this year, guess he built up his business acumen as he got older eh! Im learning i know that, you learn everyday you live, not only a 22 year but a 42 year old is still learning.

Vertakill - thank you for taking the time out to answer in the thread.

As I have said, venture over and for the best we agree, im just not ready .... yet ! thanks to all who posted.

delllat

Neiler21 wrote: »

Great Post Hammertime, I agree with you, as you have seen over my posts I know i have made mistakes in what i have done so all the critism i have been given has been vindicated, that being said you live and you learn, i have certainly learned.

Chonker - thank you very much, very sensible and straight talking replies from you all the way through this thread, i have messed up, i was careless and didnt inspect every aspect of the area i wanted to go into and by the fact i never worked in a bowling alley meant i really should have done alot more homework i guess, but lesson learnt, pride is dented but my spirit is not. Delighted to hear you have done well for yourself and I wish you continued success for the future.

Jack90210 - The last 18 months have not been spent with me just getting to a business plan and some research done, I participated in and completed a " start your own business course" which ran for 6 months, just to add to our experience and learn abit more about business in general and it did just that, so im pleased i done it, about your research remark, i`ll give you a tip now, never assume anything, you assumed that all i have done research wise was go to a paper who had printed that 80% of people in my town would like to see a bowling alley,well no, my partner and I, spent 2 full weeks visiting every major college in our town, thats 4, and asking them all to fill in our questionaire relating to what they would like to see and the results were 8 out of every 10 students said "bowling alley or some form of leisure activity like go karting". I have to say I have no problem with constructive critism what so ever, as its the only way we learn but I didnt like your comment >> "you spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill" , very sorry I have not got to your level of business, excuse me please as I am 22 and learning every day, more and more, when I get to your level maybe we can talk,right? get off your high horse!!! you know what i find funny about that though, one of my main mentors not only in business but life in general up to this point has been my brother, when my old man died in 1994 he took me under his wing since and has seen my want for nothing, hes been a rock,a true gent, always there to give great advice when i ask him and he told me some months back in fact that when he was starting off in business 15 years ago, he, like me, was at the bottom of the ladder and someone made a remark about his business acumen, similar to your remark, (thats what made me think about it) and he said it was true, but he never made on to anyone that he did know it all, just like i have done here, i held my hand up and admitted i was wrong, well today he owns a business valued at €4 million and with a number of propertys in this town, spain and a big devolpment in poland for a apartment complex coming this year, guess he built up his business acumen as he got older eh! Im learning i know that, you learn everyday you live, not only a 22 year but a 42 year old is still learning.

Vertakill - thank you for taking the time out to answer in the thread.

As I have said, venture over and for the best we agree, im just not ready .... yet ! thanks to all who posted.

I missed the part where someone asked "if you forgot about the fit out costs ?" and you siad it doesnt matter since its not going head anyway

thats a pretty big fcuk up

also the staff wages amongst other things were way too low

as someone mentioned youd need at least one security guard working at all times and possibly more than one security guard during peak times

if something kicks off a minimum wage cashier isnt going to get involved in it and 1 security giuard would have great difficulties kicking out a crowd of rowdy drunks

jack90210

Neiler21 wrote: »

Jack90210 - The last 18 months have not been spent with me just getting to a business plan and some research done, I participated in and completed a " start your own business course" which ran for 6 months, just to add to our experience and learn abit more about business in general and it did just that, so im pleased i done it,

Well done doing the course. How much did that cost by the way and how many contact hours was there? What modules did it cover? Again though: 6 months doing course (I doubt it took up more than 8 hours a day!), 2 weeks market research. What happened to other 50 weeks of your life?

about your research remark, i`ll give you a tip now, never assume anything, you assumed that all i have done research wise was go to a paper who had printed that 80% of people in my town would like to see a bowling alley,well no, my partner and I, spent 2 full weeks visiting every major college in our town, thats 4, and asking them all to fill in our questionaire relating to what they would like to see and the results were 8 out of every 10 students said "bowling alley or some form of leisure activity like go karting".

4 major colleges?? Only place i can think of with 4 major colleges is Dublin. Where we talking about here because I presume its not Dublin. I would have thought surely the target market would be familys during the day and kids aged 14-18 at night who can't go to pubs yet. College students may well go bowling every once in a while but on a student budget the vast vast majority of excess funds go on booze.

I have to say I have no problem with constructive critism what so ever, as its the only way we learn but I didnt like your comment >> "you spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill" ,

That should read: you will spend your life....

very sorry I have not got to your level of business, excuse me please as I am 22 and learning every day, more and more, when I get to your level maybe we can talk,right? get off your high horse!!!

I'm not on a high horse. Sorry if I came across as cruel or whatever but sometimes you gotta be cruel to be kind. Business is the cruelest thing in the world.

you know what i find funny about that though, one of my main mentors not only in business but life in general up to this point has been my brother, when my old man died in 1994 he took me under his wing since and has seen my want for nothing, hes been a rock,a true gent, always there to give great advice when i ask him and he told me some months back in fact that when he was starting off in business 15 years ago, he, like me, was at the bottom of the ladder and someone made a remark about his business acumen, similar to your remark, (thats what made me think about it) and he said it was true, but he never made on to anyone that he did know it all, just like i have done here, i held my hand up and admitted i was wrong, well today he owns a business valued at €4 million and with a number of propertys in this town, spain and a big devolpment in poland for a apartment complex coming this year, guess he built up his business acumen as he got older eh! Im learning i know that, you learn everyday you live, not only a 22 year but a 42 year old is still learning.

Fair play to your brother. I'm sure he took advice and didn't get emotive about it though.

Chonker

jack90210 wrote: »

Fair play to your brother. I'm sure he took advice and didn't get emotive about it though.

Mate I dont think your offering advice, you seem to be picking holes in an already agreed (By the OP himself) flawed business plan/structure.

I dont see one piece of advice in your last post.... actually it seems to be a very "emotive" piece. The OP must have upset you somewhere along the way. Or maybe you think he is lying. Either way why does it matter to you.

Neiler21

Chonker wrote: »

Mate I dont think your offering advice, you seem to be picking holes in an already agreed (By the OP himself) flawed business plan/structure.

I dont see one piece of advice in your last post.... actually it seems to be a very "emotive" piece. The OP must have upset you somewhere along the way. Or maybe you think he is lying. Either way why does it matter to you.

Thank you very much Chonker, was thinking the same thing, what is his problem? I have already held my hands up and admitted my mistakes and that i am not perfect, but he and delllat cant seem to let it go.

Cheers Chonker!

DubTony

Neiler, it's all been said here, so I've nothing to add regarding your numbers. But here's what I'd have to say about projecting figures. Always exaggerate your expenses, and reduce your expected turnover. When you work out the staff costs, add another member or two. Take your electricity, phone etc. and add 50%. Work out maintenance costs and add more. Keep doing this with each area of cost until you eventually have something close to your worst case scenario (excepting catastrophic unforseen circumstances). Then undersetimate your turnover. e.g. a ten lane bowling alley could have a quarter of the lanes used a quarter of the time etc.

If you find you can break even (or come near it) on those figures you can go ahead and put a proper business plan together (this is back of an envelope stuff). When you put your business plan together you should be then adding what you believe you yourself will bring to the business in monetary terms. i.e. how much turnover will be directly attributed to your efforts. IMO, the golden rule should be overestimate costs and underestimate turnover and work from there.

edit: Snooker halls were huge business during the last recession. (That one's free )

delllat

DubTony wrote: »

Neiler, it's all been said here, so I've nothing to add regarding your numbers. But here's what I'd have to say about projecting figures. Always exaggerate your expenses, and reduce your expected turnover. When you work out the staff costs, add another member or two. Take your electricity, phone etc. and add 50%. Work out maintenance costs and add more. Keep doing this with each area of cost until you eventually have something close to your worst case scenario (excepting catastrophic unforseen circumstances). Then undersetimate your turnover. e.g. a ten lane bowling alley could have a quarter of the lanes used a quarter of the time etc.

If you find you can break even (or come near it) on those figures you can go ahead and put a proper business plan together (this is back of an envelope stuff). When you put your business plan together you should be then adding what you believe you yourself will bring to the business in monetary terms. i.e. how much turnover will be directly attributed to your efforts. IMO, the golden rule should be overestimate costs and underestimate turnover and work from there.

edit: Snooker halls were huge business during the last recession. (That one's free )[/QUOTE

its hard to believe snooker and pool halls arent more popular in this country

Bandara

delllat wrote: »

DubTony wrote: »

Neiler, it's all been said here, so I've nothing to add regarding your numbers. But here's what I'd have to say about projecting figures. Always exaggerate your expenses, and reduce your expected turnover. When you work out the staff costs, add another member or two. Take your electricity, phone etc. and add 50%. Work out maintenance costs and add more. Keep doing this with each area of cost until you eventually have something close to your worst case scenario (excepting catastrophic unforseen circumstances). Then undersetimate your turnover. e.g. a ten lane bowling alley could have a quarter of the lanes used a quarter of the time etc.

If you find you can break even (or come near it) on those figures you can go ahead and put a proper business plan together (this is back of an envelope stuff). When you put your business plan together you should be then adding what you believe you yourself will bring to the business in monetary terms. i.e. how much turnover will be directly attributed to your efforts. IMO, the golden rule should be overestimate costs and underestimate turnover and work from there.

edit: Snooker halls were huge business during the last recession. (That one's free )[/QUOTE

its hard to believe snooker and pool halls arent more popular in this country

The key to them imo is getting a full bar license for them. Then your laughing.

dandelion

As a first project it was ambitious, thats an observation, not a criticism. I also cannot see how you could make it work with such little money, the rent on the premises should come to €120k alone, thats a question rather than a criticism.

I believe everyone who has said no has done you a favour and stopped you from losing your €10k.

Bowling alleys don't make money in Ireland. Existing ones rely on complimentary good sales to survive.

Have either of you ever run a bowling alley or worked in one?

Did you do much market research to see what the interest would be?

What were the fit out costs?

I am waiting for the bank to renew my overdraft for this year, waiting since last December in fact. Banks are saying no to everyone, don't take it personally... I've never forgotten the first guy who said no to me... that was in 1982. I'm still in business.

Come up with a simpler cheaper idea for your first go. You'll learn just as much and mistakes will cost you less.
If you're really serious I'll look over your next project and show you where the holes are.
Successsful entrepreneurs start off with something they know.
Did you know bowling?

Best of luck in the future

delllat

Hammertime wrote: »

delllat wrote: »

The key to them imo is getting a full bar license for them. Then your laughing.

is it that difficult to get a licence ?

when i was young ,we used to play in the bridge snooker club in dundalk

it was so laid back there we used to bring 12 beer each and a pint glass and play a few hours at a time

any lads who wanted to smoke da reefer were also welcome

this was in about 96-97

god I miss that place...:rolleyes:

Neiler21

I hear its alot more difficult to get one nowadays, that being said, im sure it could be done, last I heard it was in the €150,000 region to buy one.

Edit : Dandelion - Thank you for your post and as with most of this thread, some great advice, i`ll be sure to keep some guys from here in the loop with any future venture.

Cheers