Liverpool v Everton FA Cup Replay

ntlbell

Mr Alan wrote: »

he was sent off after 77 mins Nuxx. He got a yellow for nothing, wasnt even a foul. Nothing he could have done about it.

Did you even watch the match?

to be fair it was a bad tackle not to mention it was in the middle of the park with a full defence behind him there was no need to be so reckless

Warper

kingshankly wrote: »

as you said it cant happen give me tens and ill go a monkey

Childish remarks, like dealing with a 5 year old.

newballsplease

Im a Utd fan but anyway...... do liverpool fans rate Babel?? I think he should be given a good run in the team from the start of games.

themont85

Dissapointing game, hilarious how ITV managed to mess up in different regions accross the UK for the only good moment of the game.

Leeds fans think they're great anyway;

joe123

shane86 wrote: »

Cant believe I forgot to mention Lucas. He is a spare, an injury crisis man, the Jonathan Douglas and Liam Miller/Lawrence of the side. Why the **** was he starting?

Rafa is truly losing the touch, and cant keep riding on the back of the 2005 CL forever. Im not sure I can see past Real despite their traditional CL form, and at the moment I think a change is in order.

Unfortnately I dont think Jose will come back to England just yet

Were 2nd in the league. In the title race AHEAD of chelsea and Arsneal and 2 points behind the leaders...and you want rafa out?? Some fans :rolleyes:

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan he may have been better then his usual self but I wouldn't call his performance fúcking good. The guy is a walking accident waiting to happen. He's a defensive midfielder and he is shíte in the air, cant tackle and gives the ball away too much (although he was better keeping the ball tonight). How any Liverpool fan can think this guy deserves to wear the shirt is somehow being blind sighted.

I thought he was ok but if a 21yr old can't get a chance in an fa cup game when your competing for the PL AND CL when do you suggest he does he get one?

Mr Alan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

His second booking was stupid and a certain yellow once he had commited the foul. Regardless of the merits for, or lack there of, the first yellow, he knew he had got it and should have played accordingly. He didn't, and deserved the second card.

so we are in agreeance, he got one yellow card tonight that he deserved & one for something that wasnt even a foul.

therefore, he should not have been sent off.

cool.

Deleted User wrote: »

The guy is a walking accident waiting to happen. He's a defensive midfielder and he is shíte in the air, cant tackle and gives the ball away too much (although he was better keeping the ball tonight). How any Liverpool fan can think this guy deserves to wear the shirt is somehow being blind sighted.

1. he is a young fella. 2. he is not first choice. 3. he is not a defensive midfielder.

Deleted User wrote: »

How any Liverpool fan can think this guy deserves to wear the shirt is somehow being blind sighted.

i wonder how many great players have had that said about them in their youth? i'd imagine a lot.

Mr Alan

ntlbell wrote: »

to be fair it was a bad tackle not to mention it was in the middle of the park with a full defence behind him there was no need to be so reckless

i was refering to the first one, it wasnt a foul, there wasnt even any contact.

kingshankly

Warper wrote: »

Childish remarks, like dealing with a 5 year old.

whatever the offer stands to the weekend if you want easy money:)

whatawaster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So, he is used to playing in a massively defensive team... whats the problem?:p;)

What do you base that on? Udinese were probably the most attacking team in Italy last year. And Dossena was a big part of that at wing-back.

Nuri Sahin

kingshankly wrote: »

one thing i must say jagielka is one of the best center half i have seen his season . cant admit to have seen him week in week out but he put in incredible performances over the 3 games

True. Deserves a call up to the international team vs Spain next week based on the season he has had.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

so we are in agreeance, he got one yellow card tonight that he deserved & one for something that wasnt even a foul.

therefore, he should not have been sent off.

But he should have adjusted his game once he got the first, he was stupid to put in the tackle that got him the second and it was a deserved card. Also, we are not in agreement, as i didn't see the first yellow (the reason I didn't say if i felt he deserved it or not)

Mitch Connor

whatawaster wrote: »

What do you base that on? Udinese were probably the most attacking team in Italy last year. And Dossena was a big part of that at wing-back.

I was messing. I just read he was part of a 5 man defense.

kingshankly

whatawaster wrote: »

What do you base that on? Udinese were probably the most attacking team in Italy last year. And Dossena was a big part of that at wing-back.

i will defend liverpool players and rafa as best i can but i have to draw the line with dossena,id rather traore:eek:

Mr Alan

whether or not he should have adjusted his game is irrelevant, if he got sent of for one foul deserving of a yellow, its hardly fair is it? :rolleyes:

whatawaster

nuxxx wrote: »

I dont mean to be rude but how can a team but cant hold the ball for longer than 1 minute expect to be title challengers..

that's odd. in the game at Anfield we'd something like 75% possession and have the ball for long spells in most games we play. Funny that seeing as we are incapable of keeping it. Our problem is not passing the ball, it's being incisive and clinical in the final third where, like it or not, we're still short of the quality of United and even Arsenal

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

i was refering to the first one, it wasnt a foul, there wasnt even any contact.

FYI - there doesn't need to be contact for it to be a foul. (Fowler against Arsenal)

mayordenis

Remember Lucas was being Trolled by a few everton players for the whole first half, The match actually mirror's boards quite well.

Mr Alan

they were two seperate points-it wasnt a foul...ie:no rules were broken....and there wasnt even any contact, so i cant even fathom wat the ref was thinking.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

I thought he was ok but if a 21yr old can't get a chance in an fa cup game when your competing for the PL AND CL when do you suggest he does he get one?

I suppose so but it was a derby. I cannot see why he didn't start Masch in a game like this.

Mr Alan wrote: »

1. he is a young fella. 2. he is not first choice. 3. he is not a defensive midfielder.

i wonder how many great players have had that said about them in their youth? i'd imagine a lot.

That's where he is being played though.

Ok he is young and we should be giving him a chance but not in a derby & certainly not in the PL & CL(although admittedly he did well vs Newcastle & Bolton). With good young players you can see potential pouring out of them especially at 21 & with midfielders. I have NOT seen that with Lucas yet & these stupid fúcking tackles just make it worse. He was on a yellow and he should have the common sense not to make a tackle like that.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

whether or not he should have adjusted his game is irrelevant, if he got sent of for one foul deserving of a yellow, its hardly fair is it? :rolleyes:

it is clearly not irrelevant, you just want it to be cause it suits you. It is harsh on the lad, and no, it is probably not fair, but the facts are he was on a yellow and committed a stupid tackle clearly deserving of a yellow.

shane86

joe123 wrote: »

Were 2nd in the league. In the title race AHEAD of chelsea and Arsneal and 2 points behind the leaders...and you want rafa out?? Some fans :rolleyes:

He has not capitalised on the lead he had obtained, with some awful decisions re lineups and substitutions. Lucas should not have been playing. He should not have sold Keane when he did, and his man management of him during his spell there was awful. Who cares if they are ahead of an out of form Chelsea and a past it Wenger? The big test is how he is performing against Fergie and, at the moment, it is poorly. Barring an injury nightmare for Man Utd (and I am talking Berb, Rooney and Vidic out all at once, and Rio remaining out) they WILL NOT catch up, and that is a fact (at the mo I dont see Ronaldo as a vital player, he is still regaining his form). Now, I dont read anything into the "Fergie rant", in fact I watched it for the first time today (when he made it originally I was near on dying with flu and unable to get out of bed to reach a tv, never got around to youtubing it). All he said was pretty much spot on and has had zero effect on his team performance. Lineup choices, bad sales, lack of buys and sub decisions, have, however, had their say.

whatawaster

joe123 wrote: »

I dont know how you thought he was our best midfielder. Kuyt is muck also but i would of had Alonso and riera ahead of him tonight.

that's because you "dislike" Lucas as you said earlier and went into the game with preconceptions, failed to notice anything good he did and only remember his bookings.

Nuri Sahin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I was messing. I just read he was part of a 5 man defense.

Udinese played 3-5-2 or 5-3-2(as some would consider) in the games I saw them play. He was their wing back

whatawaster

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose so but it was a derby. I cannot see why he didn't start Masch in a game like this.



That's where he is being played though.

no he plays central midfield. A holding midfielder, a la Makelele, sits in front of the back four and that is his only job. Lucas does actually go forward, despite what commentators say.

SlickRic

memo to pool fans:

let's please PLEASE support the team. we were down to 10 men tonight, with lucas sent off, away to our merseyside neighbours.

either way tonight was not the end of the world

let's not lambast the team and let's keep things in perspective.

seriously, we don't need to do the work of the anti-pool people for them. they're ready enough to jump on us whenever we falter a little anyway. i know everything's not perfect, rosy and whatever.

i don't expect people to defend the indefensible whenever such circumstances arise, but a lot of the criticisms and conclusions people have come to on here have been ludicrous.

for instance, 'what's lucas doing near the team?', or 'rafa should be sacked', or 'we're a one-man team'. all ludicrous imo.

lucas was our best midfielder tonight, and has been in a couple of games this season. he's a great squad player.
rafa is the only one in power at that club who should stay right now.
no team is a one-man team.

first and foremost let's support the team, and not get dragged into kicking the team when it's down...or kicking it when it's actually doing well as can happen.

Hank Scorpio

whatawaster wrote: »

that's odd. in the game at Anfield we'd something like 75% possession and have the ball for long spells in most games we play. Funny that seeing as we are incapable of keeping it. Our problem is not passing the ball, it's being incisive and clinical in the final third where, like it or not, we're still short of the quality of United and even Arsenal

Im neutral btw, i would like to see liverpool win the league. I used to support chelsea in the hasselbaink/gudjohnson days but now i have no team.

Any game i watch liverpool play this season ( quiet alot ) they seem to have no control across the middle of the park, its always panicky passes to gerrard who in turn gives it out wide, which in turn leads to loss of possesion.

Benitez, the man who plays arbeloa, lucas, kuyt, donena, benyoun and others ships keane off who he barely gave a game too, keane scores 2 good goals, next 2 games hes not even in the squad. Now i may add when it comes to manchester UTD , they have flechter, carrick playing alot, players not as good as alonso and gerrard, but seem to have a natural control of the game and work rate.

Problem is with liverpool, there is potential there to be a good side imho, torres is good, as is gerrard and alonso. Riera is being hailed as a excellent player. Would he get into the utd or chelsea side, there is no way he would, he dodges 1 player then lunges out and looses the ball. but in liverpool terms hes the first choice left midfieler. Kuyt, the work horse, does NOTHING to the attacking side of liverpool. So instead of 4 midfiedlers, you have two, who cannot work together properly imho

Liverpools defence, the two wingbacks, no matter who benitez plays from the squad are going to be brutal. He gets rid of riise and finnan, who were miles ahead of where they are now.

I can sum it up to a extent, liverpool have a mix of tital contenders, and a mix of mid to uefa position players league wise. This will not win you or get you close to the league.

I said it all this season, liverpool are LUCKY to find themselves in the position there in now, robbie keane was treated like a dogs dinner.

If you dont pay you dont play, or in rafas case you pay for the dogs dinner and continuing playing them to guide you away from the title.

Gerrard should have gone along time ago but now it too late. Look back to morientes , gerrard would hug and smile at him and run to him if he scored. Same thing for torres, imo gerrard doesnt rate his team and nos himself the squad is no where good enuff to be up with Man UTD.

Dont mean to upset you but its just my opinion

oh and p.s Saying its only one game , or we still this, or its not the end of the world is brinking of averageness, and its quiet a silent plee from fans to say" We no were not good enuff, but hold on tight, maybe we`ll win the carling cup"

whatawaster

whatawaster wrote: »

no he plays central midfield. A holding midfielder, a la Makelele, sits in front of the back four and that is his only job. Lucas does actually go forward, despite what commentators say.

Right but he replaced Masch a defensive midfielder and has done before. The other games hes played was ahead of Alonso. Alonso would be in between Gerrard and Masch generally so ok CM but he generally sits back picking the ball up from the back four connecting it with the rest of the team. Players that did this in the past were known as DMs eg some masters at it Keane, Viera etc etc. So my view is that Rafa puts him in a DM role?

whatawaster

Gerrard should have gone along time ago but now it too late. Look back to morientes , gerrard would hug and smile at him and run to him if he scored. Same thing for torres, imo gerrard doesnt rate his team and nos himself the squad is no where good enuff to be up with Man UTD.

i don't get what you're saying. Morientes (who flopped here) and Torres are the only players Gerrard rated here during Benitez's era?

monkey9

shane86 wrote: »

He has not capitalised on the lead he had obtained, with some awful decisions re lineups and substitutions. Lucas should not have been playing. He should not have sold Keane when he did, and his man management of him during his spell there was awful. Who cares if they are ahead of an out of form Chelsea and a past it Wenger? The big test is how he is performing against Fergie and, at the moment, it is poorly. Barring an injury nightmare for Man Utd (and I am talking Berb, Rooney and Vidic out all at once, and Rio remaining out) they WILL NOT catch up, and that is a fact (at the mo I dont see Ronaldo as a vital player, he is still regaining his form). Now, I dont read anything into the "Fergie rant", in fact I watched it for the first time today (when he made it originally I was near on dying with flu and unable to get out of bed to reach a tv, never got around to youtubing it). All he said was pretty much spot on and has had zero effect on his team performance. Lineup choices, bad sales, lack of buys and sub decisions, have, however, had their say.

Berbatov cost over 30m, Rooney and Ferdinand both cost close to 30m each, Vidic would have been a Liverpool player except Coco Parry didnt trust Rafa to give him the sort of money that would have secured his signature.
This is the financial muscle Rafa is competing against and he's doing a great job of it

whatawaster

Deleted User wrote: »

Right but he replaced Masch a defensive midfielder and has done before. The other games he's played was ahead of Alonso. Alonso would be in between Gerrard and Masch generally so ok CM but he generally sits back picking the ball up from the back four connecting it with the rest of the team. Players that did this in the past were known as DMs eg some masters at it Keane, Viera etc etc. So my view is that Rafa puts him in a DM role?

Both Keane and Viera were wrongly labelled that. Both were so much more in their prime. Lucas played DM for Brazil in the Olympics, rarely ever straying over the halfway line. He never plays that role for Liverpool.

Hank Scorpio

whatawaster wrote: »

i don't get what you're saying. Morientes (who flopped here) and Torres are the only players Gerrard rated here during Benitez's era?

Gerrard is a big time player. IMO hes one of the top midfielders in the pl if not europe. What im trying to say is he had/has massive respect for morientes. Yes morientes flopped but gerrard still ran to him at any chance. Any game liverpool win at FT torres and gerrard hug and share the biggest smiles. Its a handshake for the rest of his team mates.
Rated no. Carregher is one ( spelled wrong obv ) but from players benitez is bought i can not see anyone on a level par with gerrard except for torres.

joe123

shane86 wrote: »

He has not capitalised on the lead he had obtained, with some awful decisions re lineups and substitutions. Lucas should not have been playing. He should not have sold Keane when he did, and his man management of him during his spell there was awful. Who cares if they are ahead of an out of form Chelsea and a past it Wenger? The big test is how he is performing against Fergie and, at the moment, it is poorly. Barring an injury nightmare for Man Utd (and I am talking Berb, Rooney and Vidic out all at once, and Rio remaining out) they WILL NOT catch up, and that is a fact (at the mo I dont see Ronaldo as a vital player, he is still regaining his form). Now, I dont read anything into the "Fergie rant", in fact I watched it for the first time today (when he made it originally I was near on dying with flu and unable to get out of bed to reach a tv, never got around to youtubing it). All he said was pretty much spot on and has had zero effect on his team performance. Lineup choices, bad sales, lack of buys and sub decisions, have, however, had their say.

Its an Fa cup game. Its not our priority so playing lucas ahead of mascherano tonight wasnt the worst choice in the world.

However when he plays him in league games which he has done alot this season i agree I dont know what hes thinking.

As regards lack of buys sure the club has no money to buy players so you cant blame him for that. I agree selling Keane was a bad choice and the way he treated him even worse.

But your a liverpool fan. This is the closest we have been in years to winning the title. Surely you can put the benitez out rants to rest for the rest of the season?

As slickRick said going out of the fa cup is not the end of the world. Just get behind the team!

whatawaster

whatawaster wrote: »

Both Keane and Viera were wrongly labelled that. Both were so much more in their prime. Lucas played DM for Brazil in the Olympics, rarely ever straying over the halfway line. He never plays that role for Liverpool.

whatawaster wrote: »

no he plays central midfield. A holding midfielder, a la Makelele, sits in front of the back four and that is his only job. Lucas does actually go forward, despite what commentators say.

I dont mean to be a smart arse here but what was you're initial point then? I said he's a defensive midfielder.

whatawaster

nuxxx wrote: »

Gerrard is a big time player. IMO hes one of the top midfielders in the pl if not europe. What im trying to say is he had/has massive respect for morientes. Yes morientes flopped but gerrard still ran to him at any chance. Any game liverpool win at FT torres and gerrard hug and share the biggest smiles. Its a handshake for the rest of his team mates.
Rated no. Carregher is one ( spelled wrong obv ) but from players benitez is bought i can not see anyone on a level par with gerrard except for torres.

that's because he's one of the best players, if not the best, that Liverpool have ever had. How the f*ck could they be at his level?

whatawaster

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont mean to be a smart arse here but what was you're initial point then? I said he's a defensive midfielder.

and i said he's not

PHB

Tell that to the similar net spends.

SlickRic

nuxxx wrote: »

oh and p.s Saying its only one game , or we still this, or its not the end of the world is brinking of averageness, and its quiet a silent plee from fans to say" We no were not good enuff, but hold on tight, maybe we`ll win the carling cup"

if that's what you think we're doing you really are missing the point entirely.

we're second, behind a team and squad who we admit is currently better than ours. saying losing an fa cup game against everton away with a man sent off and our best player injured is not the end of the world is not settling for averageness, as you seem to imply.

some of us live in reality though. we don't have the funds or players to compete with utd's quality and depth unless we consistently play above ourselves. we need to not get carried away when results don't go perfectly, because if we do, you get ridiculous calls for the gaffer's head, and mass hysteria.

pool fans' problem in the past has been over-optimism, setting ourselves up for a horrible fall. don't lambast us now for trying to set ourselves in reality, and adjust our goals accordingly.

let us be thankful we're challenging as we are, because it's what we have been longing to do for a while now. we can finally start to expect big success.

the fa cup was unfortunate but we've bigger fish to try and fry now. so be it. we'll keep seeing where the season takes us.

we're not settling for average, trust me.

Mr.Nice Guy

monkey9 wrote: »

Berbatov cost over 30m, Rooney and Ferdinand both cost close to 30m each, Vidic would have been a Liverpool player except Coco Parry didnt trust Rafa to give him the sort of money that would have secured his signature.
This is the financial muscle Rafa is competing against and he's doing a great job of it

He's not doing that great a job of it considering he incurred a reported £8m loss this week by selling a guy he brought in for some £20m. If we're talking about having to deal with financial muscle then let's give huge credit to David Moyes. What he's achieved on his resources has been nothing short of outstanding. He also has had limited options up front but the difference is he hasn't brought it on himself.

I've read plenty of 'this cup isn't important to us' comments and so on but how about actually giving this patched-up Everton team praise for knocking out a title-chasing team. Fair play to them.

whatawaster

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

reported £8m loss

The Liverpool Echo, who are usually right about things like this, say it's
an absolute max of 4m and could rise to breakeven depending on certain factors (including Spurs winning things, so we obviously won't get that much)

SlickRic

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I've read plenty of 'this cup isn't important to us' comments and so on but how about actually giving this patched-up Everton team praise for knocking out a title-chasing team. Fair play to them.

you should probably note that most of us have, though i'm not going to dredge up the quotes.

moyes has been incredible for that club.

Hank Scorpio

whatawaster wrote: »

that's because he's one of the best players, if not the best, that Liverpool have ever had. How the f*ck could they be at his level?

only torres is close to him. Please name players from liverpools best 11 compared to Man UTD best 11 who would make Man UTD`s starting 11.

All i can see is gerrard and torres. Now thats a comparison of 2 vs 9, which in turn means man u have 8. something times stronger side.

jesus_thats_gre

Adnan Alves wrote: »

Udinese played 3-5-2 or 5-3-2(as some would consider) in the games I saw them play. He was their wing back

He played as part of a back 5..

whatawaster

nuxxx wrote: »

only torres is close to him. Please name players from liverpools best 11 compared to Man UTD best 11 who would make Man UTD`s starting 11.

All i can see is gerrard and torres. Now thats a comparison of 2 vs 9, which in turn means man u have 8. something times stronger side.

I know United have a stronger side, better individual players etc. Nobody on this forum will dispute that. I'm not sure, therefore, what you're trying to say.

If it's that Liverpool have 2 good players then you're wrong. If it's that we've 2 world class players, then i'd argue for Mascherano and Reina, but respect your opinion.
But hey, if that's what you think, you must think Rafa's doing some job with this bunch of duffers.

whatawaster

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

He played as part of a back 5..

he was as much a winger as a defender at Udinese. They were renowned for their attacking attitude.

themont85

More on ITV's terrific coverage;

Pyjamarama

nuxxx wrote: »

only torres is close to him. Please name players from liverpools best 11 compared to Man UTD best 11 who would make Man UTD`s starting 11.

All i can see is gerrard and torres. Now thats a comparison of 2 vs 9, which in turn means man u have 8. something times stronger side.

Seriously lads does no-one read the mods posts??? This is a game thread...

Anyway i'll stop the back seat modding as that's also against the rules, just frustrated.

Pool were poor tonight for most of the game. Everton battled hard (sometimes a bit too hard imo) and deserved the win. They'll give Villa some problems with it being in Goodison.

As for Pool, a win against Pompey next weekend and all will be forgiven. Hopefully Nando and Stevie won't be out for too long (maybe Nando is actually ok to go on sat).

Oh and one last thing as I can't resist, on the net spend thing, Rafa had to get rid of players bought by Gez who were for want of a better term terrible. Fergie has been able to sell youth players he brought through which obviously means they'll go for larger sums than their ability might warrant because of Uniteds great(and rightly so) rep.

Third_Echelon

Mr Alan wrote: »

whether or not he should have adjusted his game is irrelevant, if he got sent of for one foul deserving of a yellow, its hardly fair is it? :rolleyes:

I didn't get to see the game live as I was working unfortunately...

I did however record it and have watched every minute of the game with the knowledge of the events that happened.

Lucas's first yellow card was for what refs call "persistent fouling", it wasn't just for the one incident where he actually received the booking.

The second one was a lazy/synical foul. Lescott was breaking away and Lucas knew what he was doing, so I don't see grounds for complaint from Liverpool fans....

I thought the red had a very good match and handled incidents well and with common sense...

ciaran76

Find it strange that Benitez complains about a "wrong" sending off and only last Sunday his same team benefited from a "wrong" sending off.

Ok I dont find it strange but it did make me laugh.

kida

MementoMori wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised to see this appealed on the basis of the first yellow card.

you can't appeal a 2 yellow sending off and also I thought the first was for persistent fouling