Public v Private : how clever of the Government

Sand

The electorate is ultimately responsible for the governments they get. They dont punish corruption and they dont punish incompetence so they get corrupt, incompetent government.

However, running a modern state is well beyond the means of a bunch of teachers, publicans and solicitors regardless of whether they are with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael or Labour. They rely very heavily on the civil service and state institutions. The wider electorate are even less informed than the politicians they elect. And no alternative government offered a different approach to the last 10 years - nobody wanted to threaten the property bubble, even though it couldnt last. In terms of massive waste of public funds such as decentralisation, FG didnt disagree, they were simply bitter with envy that Fianna Fail could engage in such a blatant vote buying exercise with public money and that FG could not.

The Financial Regulators job, in their own words, is as follows:

A fundamental protection for consumers is the solvency and safety of financial institutions. The Financial Regulator has a key responsibility in this area by giving confidence to consumers that their deposits and investments are safe and that their claims can be met. In turn, this contributes to a stable financial system and to the reputation and good standing of the Irish financial sector.
The financial services industry is increasingly global in scale and influence. This poses challenges to both the industry and its regulator. Monitoring global financial and economic developments is an important element of our job.

The focus of work in this area will be on:

The refinement of a regulatory approach based on risk profile and impact of default;
Risk assessment, measurement and control techniques in all sectors of the industry;
Data collection associated with developing better early warning indicators of prudential stress;
A programme of on-site inspections.

By any measure, the Financial Regulator completely failed in its role over oversight on the Irish banks. The private sector is supposed to maximise shareholder value, and everyone knows there is a risk that greed will blind them to risks - thats exactly why there is a financial regulator in the first place. Up until 2006-2007 the Financial regulator continued to insist that the Irish banking system was completely sound, which was either a lie or evidence of their complete failure to get an accurate measure of the risks the banks were taking on. I tend towards the latter, because having dealt with the financial regulator I can assure you their inspections and follow throughs are minimal and follow the path of least resistance.

The government has a lot to answer for, and the electorate do to - but given that the institutions formed at public expense with the express purpose of ensuring the health of the Irish financial sector completely fail to supply an accurate analysis of the situation, and indeed a completely wrong one then surely the electorate can be forgiven for feeling a little let down by their government and its institutions. The electorate isnt paid to manage the risk of the banking sector - thats what they pay their taxes for, so that they dont have to bail out the banks later.

There is however, no guarantee that voting out Fianna Fail and voting in Fine Gael will lead to any better regulation of the Irish banking sector. [ Though Fianna Fail MUST be voted out at the next election - there is simply no excuse whatsoever for them retaining power. FG might not be any better, but in the interests of fairness should be given their opportunity to be just as corrupt and incompetent].

silverharp

Sand wrote: »

The Financial Regulators job, in their own words, is as follows:



By any measure, the Financial Regulator completely failed in its role over oversight on the Irish banks. The private sector is supposed to maximise shareholder value, and everyone knows there is a risk that greed will blind them to risks - thats exactly why there is a financial regulator in the first place. Up until 2006-2007 the Financial regulator continued to insist that the Irish banking system was completely sound, which was either a lie or evidence of their complete failure to get an accurate measure of the risks the banks were taking on. I tend towards the latter, because having dealt with the financial regulator I can assure you their inspections and follow throughs are minimal and follow the path of least resistance.

The impression I got from people in the industry was that they used to give the IFSC banks a hard time but it hands off as far as the Irish banks were concerned. Regulation in this country gets to chummy for it to be effective

Sand

The impression I got from people in the industry was that they used to give the IFSC banks a hard time but it hands off as far as the Irish banks were concerned. Regulation in this country gets to chummy for it to be effective

I dealt with them in the IFSC and my own impression was the FR accepted whatever they were told without any serious followthrough or actual checking. There just seemed to be the implicit trust that "these guys know what they were doing, dont rock the boat". If Irish banks get it easier then the FR is even worse than I thought.

In terms of the risks the banks were taking with loans, it cant be too hard to demand to see the banks debtors and weight up the risks the banking sector as a whole were taking on and demand remedial action to ensure the health of the Irish financial institutions. But from what I encountered, Id believe their check on Anglo-Irish financial position probably amounted to ringing them up and asking "Hi guys, how is everything over there?....Fantastic? Grand - Ill issue you a pass then. See you next year!"

ChewChew

I work for the HSE. personally, I am rather upset that I have to pay this extra levy on my pension but I am willing to do so. I am 25 years old and I have to pay into my pension because in 40 years time when my time to retire comes along, I doubt very much that there will be a state pension entitlement so I have to look ahead for my future. This being difficult at the moment, but a difficulty that I am prepared to engage in nonetheless.

I am also very very lucky. Apart from being down some cash every pay day, I have no kids. No mortgage. No bills. So yes, I know I am in a very fortunate position. Job security is now a non existent issue with me as I received my permanency this week which I am but of course thrilled over as temporary staff will be something of the past I fear.

So all in all, apart from being down in money and having to take the burden of someone elses cock-up in my pay pack, it is something I am more than willing to do right now because I have a job for life. Simple as. I dont think the trade unions will get to take much if any action on this. But understandably, there are couples working for the public sector with mortgages and children and bank loans and bills that are going to find this levy a little difficult to manage and those are the people I feel sorry for!

Hillel

Unshelved wrote: »

You know what? You just swallow the propaganda hook, line and sinker. It's just like a public sector worker saying "Everyone in the private sector received huge bonuses, got flown to Paris for their Christmas parties and got company cars".

I have worked in both sectors. I've seen dossers and hard workers in both. So have you, if you've got any honesty. You should be taking as much pleasure in yesterday's measures as the public sector takes in somewhere like Dell or Waterford Glass closing down - absolutely none.

We're all going to get hit. And those actually responsible will laugh at us while we bicker among ourselves.

I too have worked in both sectors and agree that there are dossers and hard workers in both. I take no pleasure in cutbacks in either sector. However, there ARE differences between the two sectors and, in my opinion, these justify the pension levy.

The defined benefit pension and the job security of established Civil Servants have been well aired. The differences don't end there. Incremental scales, where salary increases are guaranteed regardless of contribution or aptitude, are one example. This doesn't happen, at least not widely, outside the public service. What does happen in the private sector is that many of us get NO guaranteed pay increase, regardless of national wage agreements et. al. Rather we have to justify any increase in terms of our contribution over the year. Little room for dossers there!

We then had a "benchmarking" exercise where the most favourable elements of the private sector Terms & Conditions were compared to those prevailing in the public sector. There was then no serious attempt to bring in performance management or any element of individual responsibility - despite lip service to the contrary. This wouldn't really matter if the private sector, where much more onerous conditions generally prevail, wasn't picking up the tab!

Now conditions have changed and the private sector is in real trouble. Any legitimate benchmarking process would track the private sector pay, and adjust downwards, as well as up. Instead, a craven government, is trying to achieve some level of parity through the pension levy. I hope they succeed.

NewDubliner

ChewChew wrote: »

I work for the HSE. personally, I am rather upset that I have to pay this extra levy on my pension but I am willing to do so. I am 25 years old and I have to pay into my pension because in 40 years time when my time to retire comes along, I doubt very much that there will be a state pension entitlement so I have to look ahead for my future.

You're not actually paying into a pension fund. You are being levied on your salary to bail out the government. The money will be used to cover the bad debts of property speculators. It's not ring-fenced or credited in your name to any future pension entitlement. If you decide to move to a private sector job, you have nothing to take with you into a private pension fund.

As to future pension entitlements, who knows what kind of government we'll have in 40 years time?

Pal

ChewChew wrote: »

there are couples working for the public sector with mortgages and children and bank loans and bills that are going to find this levy a little difficult to manage and those are the people I feel sorry for!

Let them eat cake









(its a joke ok. dont go banning me )

Hillel

Pal wrote: »

Let them eat cake

(its a joke ok. dont go banning me )

Unfortunately, there's nothing funny about the mess we're in or the painful cutbacks that are required.
I've been that bunny, and its tough.
However, not taking tough action now is no longer an option.

Pal

Hillel wrote: »

I've been that bunny, and its tough.

Carrot cake for you

Akrasia

gnxx wrote: »

Do you think that the government planned this? I don't think that this government has planned anything in the last 10 years.

they didn't plan the crisis, but they don't hang around with all those PR experts and 'spindoctors' for the pleasant company.

Politicians might not be able to plan an economy, but they're experts at blaming other people and diverting responsibility from themselves.

Pal

This whole thread debate is spurious.

We are all in the Gary Glitter. Public and Private.

There's no divide.
Its not worthy of debate.
The subject matter is just diversionary nonsense and deflects from the isuue.

And the Government are not clever. that's just confusiing things further.

Nothing to see here.

Next.......

Mcloke

Humria wrote: »

I wonder why people are so dismissive of the opposition. After 10 years of FF being in power you cannot automatically assume an alternative will be as ineffective. At least the oppositiion have some plans and measures that could help. Measures that the government wouldn't listen to because like an egotistical child Cowen has to do it his way.

It is FF spindoctoring....for most of my life FF have been in power and I am sick of hearing the "no opposition" argument....it is the same old better the devil you know argument which I do not agree with either!
I am not a FG fanatic nor any other party really but I am well and truly sick of FF being in power :rolleyes:
The only thing I am happy about is that FF did get back in power in the last election for one reason only.....so that all of this fell in their lap and they couldn't sit back and go....when we were in power everything was just fine, it is all the oppositions fault! They allowed this situation to get as bad as it is and so they need to take the full whack of the backlash. The greens self destructed when they joined up with them.

I hope people just remember at the next election to not keep on voting the same way as their great granddad did and get a mind of their own for once :rolleyes:

Mcloke

NewDubliner wrote: »

As to future pension entitlements, who knows what kind of government we'll have in 40 years time?

An FF one if history is anything to go by

Hillel

Pal wrote: »

Carrot cake for you

I love carrot cake