Wind turbine experiences - please post here

drunken_munky52

Build your own.

Most companies provide power curves based on wind speeds near open sea, so obviously you wont get that sort of distribution further inland. You will end up paying a fortune and payback will be long.

You can build your own 1-3kW for a few hundred euro. Look up Hugh Piggott's book "Wind turbine recipe book". Most of it can be made with scrap heap stuff and the only hard bit is some welding.

I am current building a 200-300watt (hopefully). Using a DC motor from a treadmill to charge 12V batteries. Pretty fun so far, can wait to see this baby in action.

quentingargan

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Build your own.

Most companies provide power curves based on wind speeds near open sea, so obviously you wont get that sort of distribution further inland. You will end up paying a fortune and payback will be long.

You can build your own 1-3kW for a few hundred euro. Look up Hugh Piggott's book "Wind turbine recipe book". Most of it can be made with scrap heap stuff and the only hard bit is some welding.

I am current building a 200-300watt (hopefully). Using a DC motor from a treadmill to charge 12V batteries. Pretty fun so far, can wait to see this baby in action.

If you properly assess the mean wind speed for your site at the hub height you plan to use, you should get a reasonably accurate forecast of what your turbine will produce. If you were near the sea, that would be reflected in the "roughness class" that you put into the table. The calculator takes the power curve and allocates it to the predicted wind speed distribution at your location.

That said, I love Hugh Piggotts designs. A friend of mine has built a 300w one that has been working for many years without any problem. There is a 6kw one that can be seen on the road heading into Omagh bulit by a bloke who lectures on wind in the college there. If you are a keen hobbyist, it is definitely a fun option, but I wouldn't be so keen to dismiss commercial wind turbines provided the site assessment is done properly. Q

bladespin

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Build your own.

Most companies provide power curves based on wind speeds near open sea, so obviously you wont get that sort of distribution further inland. You will end up paying a fortune and payback will be long.

There are a few companies who label their machine based on it's maximum output (not average), they don't use coastal sites to gauge this however, it's generally a theoretical figure given by their generator suppliers.

Most companies power curves reflect the performance of their turbine through a range of windspeeds, it's up to you to find the windspeed for your site (corrected to the turbine height and any terrain issues you may have) and find where that puts your site on the power curve.

That said, I don't know many people who spend a fortune without having done some investigation into what they're buying first, a survey for a site only costs a couple of hundred euros, money well spent.

drunken_munky52

Thanks for both replies.

I use the Danish Wind Energy Association calculator:

http://guidedtour.windpower.org/en/tour/wres/pow/index.htm

Has most known manufacturers on its data base, as well as a number of default European locations with roughness class and shape parameter included.

bladespin

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Thanks for both replies.

I use the Danish Wind Energy Association calculator:

http://guidedtour.windpower.org/en/tour/wres/pow/index.htm

Has most known manufacturers on its data base, as well as a number of default European locations with roughness class and shape parameter included.

That site is primarily for large turbines, their terrain calculations are for heights of over 50m, the results for a domestic turbine would be very vague TBH.

It doesn't contain power curves for any domestic turbines that I've heard of, Fortis, Proven, Turbotricity, Mini wind seem to be missing.

The parameters at 50m hub height bear no relation to what a 13m turbine would be experiencing, caution is advised on any calculations produced.

SEI's wind maps would be a better place to start, combine that with your blades potential at different rpm (windspeeds) and use that against the power curve from your generator first then use a terrain aproximation to calculate potential output.

razor4scobies

richiekilkelly wrote: »

Hello, has anybody installed a wizzmill turbine, if so does it do what it says on the tin? http://www.wizzmill.ie thanks.

I have and it certainly does not do what it says on the tin. I have it installed with a year and in that time it has blown over twice and I have been left to my own devices by the company. Since the arrival of summer and switching off my oil heating I have noticed that the wizzmill was not heating any water at all. ollie came to see the problem but left without speaking to me. I am now not getting any replies to any calls I am making to them including their office which is giving the cut off tone when one calls. I wonder have they gone out of business. I can safely say that I have not made any payback on the 3000 euro I gave them in fact I had to pay others to rectify the problem when the wizzmill blew over any have not been re-imbursed by the company. I wonder did it ever heat water as it is hard to tell when you have other heating systems running alongside. I only found out it was not heating any water when I switched my oil off with the advent of summer. The are an amateur company who dont seem to know what they are doing. Gavin Duffy you had a lucky escape because yes they are that amateur and clueless. My only hope rests with the salesman who seems to be conscientious and is calling with a qualified electrician to see if he can do anything for me and he doesnt work for them anymore. Be careful how u proceed.

thebigredmachin

quentingargan wrote: »

You can certainly self-build a turbine if you are an enthusiast. See http://www.scoraigwind.com/

You can hook up any turbine to the grid. The ESB is only concerned that the grid tie inverter is EN50438 compliant (with their unique variables for Ireland) but they don't care if it is getting its juice from Granny on a bicycle with a dynamo. Q

hi quentin/all,
im thinking of ordering hugh piggots book and learning how to build a turbine as a winter project.

im handy enough with electronics and my dad can weld and is pretty good with woodwork. how hard can it be??

would the metric wind turbine recepie book be a good starting point?

also will looking into planning permission for a house next year. have a site selected. has anyone any recommendations for a cheap wind logging kit i could install somewhere to get my average wind speeds/direction?

im liking this thread, any additional help much appreciated
barry

bladespin

thebigredmachin wrote: »

hi quentin/all,
im thinking of ordering hugh piggots book and learning how to build a turbine as a winter project.

im handy enough with electronics and my dad can weld and is pretty good with woodwork. how hard can it be??

would the metric wind turbine recepie book be a good starting point?

also will looking into planning permission for a house next year. have a site selected. has anyone any recommendations for a cheap wind logging kit i could install somewhere to get my average wind speeds/direction?

im liking this thread, any additional help much appreciated
barry

Hi Barry, I've been using a Lewl logger for some time and find it excellent, the SD card set up makes things very simple.

It records in CSV which imports into Excel very easily, it seperates results by date and you can set it to various time intervals: 2sec, 10 sec etc.

http://www.reuk.co.uk/LeWL-Wind-Logger.htm

Toplink

bladespin wrote: »

Hi Barry, I've been using a Lewl logger for some time and find it excellent, the SD card set up makes things very simple.

It records in CSV which imports into Excel very easily, it seperates results by date and you can set it to various time intervals: 2sec, 10 sec etc.

http://www.reuk.co.uk/LeWL-Wind-Logger.htm

Hi bladespin,

I am thinking of investing in one it not two of these. I have 2 sites in mind, one for a smaller turbine and one for maybe something larger in time. The site I have in mind for the smaller turbine should be ok, I can brace a pole from the edge of my shed and get the required height upto 12m - 15m.


Regarding the other site, I would be looking to get to the 40m - 60m height, is there anybody who can supply a reliable mast for the purpose of collecting wind data over a period of 18 months. I spoke a company in Scotland who could do it but they would be looking for 10K-15K.

SEI wind maps tell me that average ws is 7 m/s which makes feasibility on the poorer side but I'd prefer to collect my own data.

50m is a pretty high mast so I doubt I am going to get any cheap option here but said I'd ask anyway!

bladespin

Toplink wrote: »

Hi bladespin,

Regarding the other site, I would be looking to get to the 40m - 60m height, is there anybody who can supply a reliable mast for the purpose of collecting wind data over a period of 18 months. I spoke a company in Scotland who could do it but they would be looking for 10K-15K.

SEI wind maps tell me that average ws is 7 m/s which makes feasibility on the poorer side but I'd prefer to collect my own data.

50m is a pretty high mast so I doubt I am going to get any cheap option here but said I'd ask anyway!

Hi Toplink, I'm not aware of anyone offering a mast of that height, I work with a 12m mast that was built for us, it's seated into a foundation for security, I'm looking for the invoice at the moment for a costing.

I would imagine it would be easy enough to use another small mast on the 'large turbine' site and adjust your figures up to 50m height.

sbkenn

The ESB buy back scheme is crap IMO. There is little incentive, especially in comparison to the UK and continental Europe. The UK buy back at about 3x the price that they sell at, with little or no limit on how much they will buy. The ESB, when I looked anyway, buy at less than what they sell at, and even that is limited to a fairly small kWh figure.

sbkenn

1) Is there a proper name for the rotating part of a windmill ?
It isn't a propeller, and modern ones don't have sails.
2) Can anyone give any insight into the pro's & con's of horizontal and vertical axis devices ?
Darrieus ones obviously eliminate the need for slip-rings, but I believe are a bit more delicate and tend to disintegrate in high winds.

I am looking to build/buy a 1 - 1.5kW machine for my houseboat, and am considering using a pancake motor as the chassis for the generator.

S.

quentingargan

sbkenn wrote: »

1) Is there a proper name for the rotating part of a windmill ?
It isn't a propeller, and modern ones don't have sails.
2) Can anyone give any insight into the pro's & con's of horizontal and vertical axis devices ?
Darrieus ones obviously eliminate the need for slip-rings, but I believe are a bit more delicate and tend to disintegrate in high winds.

I am looking to build/buy a 1 - 1.5kW machine for my houseboat, and am considering using a pancake motor as the chassis for the generator.
S.

1) Usually called a rotor, the sticky out bits of the rotor are normally called blades.
2) is really a matter of opinion. Vertical axis machines have their fan base. The theory is that in an area with very variable winds, particularly built up areas, the turbine catches the wind, regardless of its direction. In such a situation, a horizontal axis machine would be yawing to and fro, trying to get the right wind direction for its blades.

BUT

In built up areas, the main issue is not just wind direction, but also turbulence. The blade of a wind turbine doesn't get simply pushed by the wind, but works like the sail of a boat or the wing of an airplane, getting lift from low pressure. In turbulent conditions, this dynamic is somewhat impaired.

The other downside to vertical axis machines is that although one blade is working in the right direction, its energy is somewhat offset by another blade that is working against the wind. Thus to achieve the same output, they need to have a larger overall area.

This leads to a third problem, which is that because they tend to be bulkier for the same output, it is more difficult to put them on a tall mast.

But there is no "one-size-fits-all" in wind turbines, and in some situations, a vertical axis machine may perform well - particularly in areas where there is good wind at a lower height. They are also less visually obtrusive, and there is a lot of development work going on.

Lack of slip rings is another benefit alright, though I don't have slip rings on one of my (horizontal axis) turbines, and I'm thinking of taking them off the other one. It is so seldom that the wind direction goes more than one or two full 360s in the one direction, at least in our climate, that I don't consider them necessary. Just one more thing to go wrong.

sbkenn

Has anyone used a truck radiator fan as a rotor ? How about with it's duct ? Would putting a 2nd fan on the other end of the shaft produce anything like double the output ?

Thanks

quentingargan

sbkenn wrote: »

Has anyone used a truck radiator fan as a rotor ? How about with it's duct ? Would putting a 2nd fan on the other end of the shaft produce anything like double the output ?

Thanks

The fan on the other end of the shaft would get very turbulent wind from the first set of blades. But you aren't the first person to think along these lines, and incredibly enough, there was one such turbine on display at the Ploughing Match this year. Blades are hugely affected by turbulence - the second set would just be a drag.

Fan blades have the wrong dynamics in many ways for wind turbines. If you want to do a DIY job, you would be better off looking at Hugh Piggotts site on how to carve your own blades. If you don't want to do that, if you PM me, there are some companies who sell blade sets with hubs that you can mount onto a suitable generator.

sbkenn

I have looked at blade sections and required AOA at speed. I guess though, that bought blades would be far more efficient that home made ones, so I'll stick to experimenting with the alternator bit.

Thanks
Shane

kevthegaff

Toplink wrote: »

Hi bladespin,

I am thinking of investing in one it not two of these. I have 2 sites in mind, one for a smaller turbine and one for maybe something larger in time. The site I have in mind for the smaller turbine should be ok, I can brace a pole from the edge of my shed and get the required height upto 12m - 15m.


Regarding the other site, I would be looking to get to the 40m - 60m height, is there anybody who can supply a reliable mast for the purpose of collecting wind data over a period of 18 months. I spoke a company in Scotland who could do it but they would be looking for 10K-15K.

SEI wind maps tell me that average ws is 7 m/s which makes feasibility on the poorer side but I'd prefer to collect my own data.

50m is a pretty high mast so I doubt I am going to get any cheap option here but said I'd ask anyway!

Hi i have a wind monitor about 30-40 metres in height if your interested in it- check out buy and sell- the renewable section

keepitreal

keepitreal wrote: »

<SNIP>.

Mod edit: You can PM those details if you wish but please dont post them here. Read the forum charter.

quentingargan

Toplink wrote: »

Regarding the other site, I would be looking to get to the 40m - 60m height, is there anybody who can supply a reliable mast for the purpose of collecting wind data over a period of 18 months. I spoke a company in Scotland who could do it but they would be looking for 10K-15K.

SEI wind maps tell me that average ws is 7 m/s which makes feasibility on the poorer side but I'd prefer to collect my own data.

50m is a pretty high mast so I doubt I am going to get any cheap option here but said I'd ask anyway!

You will have quite a few issues with the planners putting a turbine at that sort of height. I agree with getting turbines as high as you can, but there aren't many domestic turbines at that sort of height, and the planning exemptions of 13M to blade tip for domestic or 20M for farms is probably all you will be allowed. Its worth a try if you can make your own planning application etc., but my instinct would be to test at lower heights - maybe hub height of 18m or so.

As regards doing tests, there are companies doing this work. I would caution though that turbulence, which affects turbine blades quite dramatically, doesn't affect the cups of an anemometer. So an anemometer might record a mean wind speed of 6m/sec, but the turbine's output might not reflect that wind speed.

You have to accept that there is always a degree of risk in putting up a wind turbine. There is no guarantee of a return on investment. That's why I would prefer to see people taking a punt with smaller turbines than the big 6kw to 15kw ones that are being sold at prices of up to €40K.