36,000 Jobs lost yet mass imigration contines

Morlar

realcam wrote: »

Now let's try not to become stupid racist bigots repeating rightwing nonsense on economy matters when cause and effect is so obvious and we're so guilty ourselves....

Sorry, got carried away and it turned into a bit of a rant I'm afraid...:D

The 'lets just bury our heads in the sand' way of dealing with this does not appeal to everyone and the people who think that a different approach might be in need are not 'stupid racist bigots' for thinking so.

Degsy

Is that Nigerian woman who was refused asylum still here?
It would be interesting to see how much that one case with appeals,legal fees and all the rest has cost the taxpayer.

Mena

Degsy wrote: »

Is that Nigerian woman who was refused asylum still here?
It would be interesting to see how much that one case with appeals,legal fees and all the rest has cost the taxpayer.

Still here. She is however afforded due process and is using the legal avenues afforded her under the law. The cost of same, while high, is of no consequence.

Morlar

Mena wrote: »

The cost of same, while high, is of no consequence.

Nice of you to decide that.

Yes she is still here - several appeal court, high court, and now a supreme court and european court of human rights actions later and she will presumably turn around and ask for permission to stay on the grounds that her kids are now used to going to school here.

You should add on the cost of giving her a free house and free everything for the last several years. Oh - thats right we shouldnt bother ourselves with such details the costs to Irish taxpayers is 'of no consequence'.

Mena

Morlar wrote: »

Nice of you to decide that.

Yes she is still here - several appeal court, high court, and now a supreme court and european court of human rights actions later and she will presumably turn around and ask for permission to stay on the grounds that her kids are now used to going to school here.

You should add on the cost of giving her a free house and free everything for the last several years. Oh - thats right we shouldnt bother ourselves with such details the costs to Irish taxpayers is 'of no consequence'.

So we need to deny people their rights under law because you think it's too costly?

Morlar

Mena wrote: »

So we need to deny people their rights under law because you think it's too costly?

It depends on how you define 'rights'.

Are you still saying the overall cost of all this nonsense is something Irish people shouldnt concern themselves with ?

diverdriver

There are a lot of people on this thread who are quite clearly thick. So I'll make it obvious:

Foreigners cannot sign on the dole as soon as they arrive

Are we clear? Good.

There is abolutely no need to do something about immigration because soon one of our biggest problems will be emigration. Where they'll go is anybody's guess as our traditional destinations are as badly off as ourselves.

As for living off €200 a week maybe some of you heroes should try it. You won't last long. There are now 326,000 people on the dole, all spongers according to certain people here who seem to think there are 326,000 jobs to be had. Try applying for a few and see how you get on. You might be shocked.

It's amazing how many xenophobic bigots come out of the woodwork as soon as there's a change in the economy. The worst bigots are the one who put it across as if they're being reasonable and dress it up in fine words.

During the boom years, I noticed and it was pointed out to me that the Irish had changed particularly when abroad. We became arrogant and began behaving in a way we used to complain about when we saw it in others from certain countries. Now the boom is gone and it turns out we are ignorant and bigoted as everyone else. Maybe a few years of bad times will cure us, who knows?

But we Irish have a lot of growing up to do.

Degsy

Mena wrote: »

So we need to deny people their rights under law because you think it's too costly?

Would this be the "right" to tell lies in order to claim a cushy living in a foreign country?
The "right" to appeal against the decision of the courts of that country?
The "right" to waste the money of the taxpayers of that country?

Far too many "rights" are being affored these foreign chancers,the system needs to be t igthened up and legal aid withdrawn.
I've lived here for 37 years and if i wanted to take a case in the high court it would cost me a minimum of 25 grand.

Mena

Morlar wrote: »

It depends on how you define 'rights'.

Are you still saying the overall cost of all this nonsense is something Irish people shouldnt concern themselves with ?

To be fair, I think she is taking the piss at this stage, but this is no reflection on her, but on our failed asylum system. From the perspective of her personally, or anyone for that matter, yes, costs are inconsequential. They have the legal right to take their case as far as is allowed.

That being said, it's perhaps time the entire process was looked at. If it wasn't so flaky this type of thing would not happen and we'd better be able to control said costs. Part and parcel of this is the legal profession, but that's another thread.

Degsy wrote:

Would this be the "right" to tell lies in order to claim a cushy living in a foreign country?

Cushy living? I think you need to a ) take another look at the case and b ) get a better understanding of how asylum seekers are housed. A shared room and 19 euro a week.... really cushy yeah.

Degsy wrote:

The "right" to appeal against the decision of the courts of that country?

Well of course. Are you saying we need to remove the rights of people to appeal a courts decision?

Degsy wrote:

The "right" to waste the money of the taxpayers of that country?

This is a reflection of the current legal and asylum systems. You want change, that's where it's needed to be made. She is doing what she can under our current laws.

Degsy wrote:

Far too many "rights" are being affored these foreign chancers

Withdraw from the UNCHR?

Degsy wrote:

the system needs to be t igthened up and legal aid withdrawn.

For everyone or just for Foreigners?

Another edit: You may want to follow this thread as well: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055261880

Morlar

diverdriver wrote: »

There are a lot of people on this thread who are quite clearly thick.

Couldnt agree more.

diverdriver wrote: »

Foreigners cannot sign on the dole as soon as they

In addition to what has been covered on the thread there are also the costs of housing and feeding and providing for every little detail for every illegal immigrant/asylum seeker and each of thier children, food, education, healthcare etc. Many of these cases are bogus and drag through our legal system at great expense for YEARS.

diverdriver wrote: »

There is abolutely no need to do something about immigration because soon one of our biggest problems will be emigration.

Thats a matter of opinion which we are discussing here. No one has said that large numbers of eu and non eu immigrating while Irish and mainly eu emigrating can not happen concurrently. Its just not a desirable situation in my view. If Irish people have to leave to find jobs then we need to look at inward migration if that is the case.

diverdriver wrote: »

As for living off €200 a week maybe some of you heroes should try it.

What makes you think that people here have not had to live on a lot less previously ? Aside from which no one is saying its easy to live on that - what is being said (I think) is that while its €40 per week in some eu countries the fact that its €200+ per week here might concievably encourage some to come here and then fall back on our welfare system which is being paid for by an ever decreasing circle of Irish workers/taxpayers. Dont you think thats at least possible ? IF so do you think we should maybe think about maybe trying to have that situation changed ?

diverdriver wrote: »

You won't last long. There are now 326,000 people on the dole, all spongers according to certain people here who seem to think there are 326,000 jobs to be had. Try applying for a few and see how you get on. You might be shocked.

The problem here is that there is NO JOBS our economy is circling the drain.

diverdriver wrote: »

It's amazing how many xenophobic bigots come out of the woodwork as soon as there's a change in the economy. The worst bigots are the one who put it across as if they're being reasonable and dress it up in fine words.

Its just too easy for leftie/pc twits to dismiss anyone who mentions subjects like this as xenophobic/bigoted/racist etc. Its an 'argument' that is not as intimidating as you might think.

diverdriver wrote: »

During the boom years, I noticed and it was pointed out to me that the Irish had changed particularly when abroad. We became arrogant and began behaving in a way we used to complain about when we saw it in others from certain countries. Now the boom is gone and it turns out we are ignorant and bigoted as everyone else. Maybe a few years of bad times will cure us, who knows?

But we Irish have a lot of growing up to do.

Literally Irish society is very young (independent republic of Ireland I mean) so its factual to say that our society has a lot of growing up to do. For decades we saw things through a protected prism of our own making - the troubles and our bat**** crazy economy meant we could look at other countries and cast a critical eye over how they handled things we never had to deal with. Those days are over in my view. But I agree we do have a lot of growing up to do and we can start by easing off on slinging the 'RACIST' attacks at anyone who mentions subjects you are not comfortable with or think have the potential to be incendiary if not handled well. As I said imo the 'bury our heads in sand' plan is not doing very well at the moment and our elected representatives are paralysed by a fear of politically correct criticism which isnt helping anyone.

Boskowski

Mena wrote: »

So we need to deny people their rights under law because you think it's too costly?

Well, there is rights and there is taking the piss. She is taking the piss. Her intention is simply to draw out the process by as long as possible on some bogus claim that she knows it's bogus and we know it's bogus and she knows that we know and so on but our legal system is too fkn retarded to deal with it.

And also (this has nothing to do with advocating legal decisions, this is just common sense speaking):
Forgive me but it cannot be a complete coincidence that a lot of Nigerians are regarded as gangsters. Most be something in the history of their country or their culture or for whatever reason. Something like the bandit country attitude in the North or so. Something that makes such behaviour acceptable to large parts of the Nigerian population. Of course it's a gross generalization and the poor honest Nigerians and all that but it can't be a coincidence that every scam under the sun comes from there. To an extent that it actually has become proverbial. It cannot be a coincidence that the moment the constitutional leak was discovered (the giving birth here thing) thousands of Nigerians arrived here all pregnant and all well schooled in what their rights where. I didn't see thousands of people from Costa Rica or Vietnam or Bangladesh or fkn Denmark arriving here. No it was Nigerians. I wonder why that is? Tell you why. They're scam and con artists and that's exactly what she is.

K-9

Morlar wrote: »

What makes you think that people here have not had to live on a lot less previously ? Aside from which no one is saying its easy to live on that - what is being said (I think) is that while its €40 per week in some eu countries the fact that its €200+ per week here might concievably encourage some to come here and then fall back on our welfare system which is being paid for by an ever decreasing circle of Irish workers/taxpayers. Dont you think thats at least possible ? IF so do you think we should maybe think about maybe trying to have that situation changed ?

Reduce the dole, say to UK Levels?

not yet

realcam wrote: »

Well, there is rights and there is taking the piss. She is taking the piss. Her intention is simply to draw out the process by as long as possible on some bogus claim that she knows it's bogus and we know it's bogus and she knows that we know and so on but our legal system is too fkn retarded to deal with it.

And also (this has nothing to do with advocating legal decisions, this is just common sense speaking):
Forgive me but it cannot be a complete coincidence that a lot of Nigerians are regarded as gangsters. Most be something in the history of their country or their culture or for whatever reason. Something like the bandit country attitude in the North or so. Something that makes such behaviour acceptable to large parts of the Nigerian population. Of course it's a gross generalization and the poor honest Nigerians and all that but it can't be a coincidence that every scam under the sun comes from there. To an extent that it actually has become proverbial. It cannot be a coincidence that the moment the constitutional leak was discovered (the giving birth here thing) thousands of Nigerians arrived here all pregnant and all well schooled in what their rights where. I didn't see thousands of people from Costa Rica or Vietnam or Bangladesh or fkn Denmark arriving here. No it was Nigerians. I wonder why that is? Tell you why. They're scam and con artists and that's exactly what she is.

Shush...........You can't go round saying things like that, you'll offend people.

asdasd

There are a lot of people on this thread who are quite clearly thick. So I'll make it obvious

You certainly made it obvious, i thought :-)

There is abolutely no need to do something about immigration because soon one of our biggest problems will be emigration. Where they'll go is anybody's guess as our traditional destinations are as badly off as ourselves.

This is not all all clear. Irish people will have nowhere to emigrate and what exactly is stopping employers getting cheaper labour during a bust, if they did so during a boom? Have a look at England. In recession. Look at the employers in Lancashire.

As for living off €200 a week maybe some of you heroes should try it. You won't last long.

I am sure a lot of people will be trying it soon, what with a recession and fewer jobs if immigrants are taking some of them

There are now 326,000 people on the dole, all spongers according to certain people here who seem to think there are 326,000 jobs to be had. Try applying for a few and see how you get on. You might be shocked.

The dole money is orthogonal to the real issue. Plenty of posters will be on the dole - a dole they most certainly deserve since they paid in - however it will be harder to get jobs if immigration continues.

It's amazing how many xenophobic bigots come out of the woodwork as soon as there's a change in the economy. The worst bigots are the one who put it across as if they're being reasonable and dress it up in fine words.

you just called us xenophobic!!!!! Clearly we have lost the argument. There is no comeback to such fine argumentative skills.

But we Irish have a lot of growing up to do.

if we were as grown up and as real politic as the Germans we would've controlled immigration from Easter Europe, as they have done. That would be grown up. Instead we listened to the infantile whines of the protected classes, and the Dublin 4 liberals from the millionaire suburbs, and other assorted hypocrites about "xenophobia" from the workers.

And yet I still cannot get cheap dentistry from a Hungarian dentist here, i ahve to go to Hungary. A consultant needs to be born in Ireland, or England to automatically work here. Lawyers need Irish law degrees, Poles cannot compete for Public Sector jobs.

The rant of "xenophobia" is ruling class horse****.

K-9

not yet wrote: »

Shush...........You can't go round saying things like that, you'll offend people.

That's the thing with generalisation, they generally do.

The irony is they are coming to Ireland to be SW fraudsters.

PML

Morlar

K-9 wrote: »

Reduce the dole, say to UK Levels?

I honestly dont know but I think its an idea we should be able to consider without the 'racist' taunts coming out.

It would overnight knock on the head any newer instances of cross border welfare abuse from cropping up. We could then (ie the welfare system) look at catching those already engaged and fining them massively or jailing them to deter anyone else from engaging in fraudulent claims.

It would also reduce our international profile among those who are engaged in welfare tourism. We would be on a par with the UK which would be a good thing in my view.

Mena

Morlar wrote: »

I honestly dont know but I think its an idea we should be able to consider without the 'racist' taunts coming out.

It would overnight knock on the head any newer instances of cross border welfare abuse from cropping up. We could then (ie the welfare system) look at catching those already engaged and fining them massively or jailing them to deter anyone else from engaging in fraudulent claims.

It would also reduce our international profile among those who are engaged in welfare tourism. We would be on a par with the UK which would be a good thing in my view.

Surely, instead of lowering the amount, we should be looking at ways to stop the fraud? Lowering the amount simply punishes those unlucky enough to be on JB/JA because the government can't find a way to stop/prevent fraudulent access to the system.

twinytwo

KerranJast wrote: »

There are jobs. Irish people are just too stuck up to take menial work. They'd rather sponge off the Dole and watch Ricki Lake than clean toliets.

And what job may i ask do you have??

Morlar

Mena wrote: »

Surely, instead of lowering the amount, we should be looking at ways to stop the fraud? Lowering the amount simply punishes those unlucky enough to be on JB/JA because the government can't find a way to stop/prevent fraudulent access to the system.

There is no rule which says we can only try one approach at any given time and not try a variety of measures ALL aimed at reducing fraud and restoring integrity to the public perception of our welfare system.

If the govt cant 'find a way to stop/prevent fraudulent access to the system' then they should lose the fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist and try some newer more radical initiatives.

I would include mandatory jail time for people making fraudulent claims for example - this would include Irish born and non Irish born - I could care less.

Likewise there are some measures which would primarily target non Irish born which the govt should not shy away from as they are a considerable part of the problem and what this thread was originally about.

green123

this question was posted earlier and still not answered.

how is it possible for asylum seekers to go home to the country they are fleeing from on holidays ?

Boskowski

Morlar wrote: »

I would include mandatory jail time for people making fraudulent claims for example - this would include Irish born and non Irish born - I could care less.

Only that someone on the dole costs the taxpayer around 20k a year whereas someone in prison costs the taxpayer around 100k a year.

So, good idea but actually makes it worse on all fronts.

Morlar

realcam wrote: »

Only that someone on the dole costs the taxpayer around 20k a year whereas someone in prison costs the taxpayer around 100k a year.

So, good idea but actually makes it worse on all fronts.

That might be true - but it would also deter others as well and not just the person in jail.

As things stand they are milking the system indefinitely - a 3 or 6 month prison sentence and barring them from welfare eligibility for say 15 yrs would do wonders imo.

diverdriver

Morlar don't accuse me of being a leftie. I'm more often accused of being right wing. I prefer middle ground. Which probably means I'm all over the road.

You mention asylum seekers, that's not the same thing as legal immigration which in reality is what most people are complaining about. The asylum system is a mess. But the truth is that some people are genuine. The problem being that they get lost among the chancers. But legal immigration from other EU countries will fall because the word is out. There is nothing for them or us here. They always came here to work. If there isn't work they won't come. Simple as that. The 'problem' will solve itself.

As for people coming for here for better dole money. You did read the big red letters in my post didn't you? However attractive it might seem to someone from a poorer country. It's a pittance here. I've been on the dole, believe me it's no picnic.

We agree on the jobs situation. In fact I think that potentially this will be worse than anything seen in the 70's or 80s. Because the fall from grace is that much quicker.

Not everyone who argues the point is racist or xenophobic. But there are plenty who are. That's undeniable. There also the old 'I've nothing against (fill in the blank) but...'

It's easy to say something should be done, but before you know it people are being scapegoated. So you have to be careful. That is not PC. The last thing we need is thugs targeting foreigners. Remember people were objecting to immigration even when times were good. Saying that Irish were losing jobs to foreigners. Ask any employer about it. They'll tell you that far from excluding Irish. They had trouble finding them and then keeping them. I know of a situation where jobs were advertised and literally no one applied. Not one person, Irish or foreign.

I firmly believe this fear about inward migration is overblown. No one will come here if there are no jobs. It's easy to get carried away and start pointing fingers and scapegoating people. This fear can easily be manipulated by people with an agenda. History has plenty of examples of what happens when that gets out of hand.

Morlar

diverdriver wrote: »

This fear can easily be manipulated by people with an agenda. History has plenty of examples of what happens when that gets out of hand.

12 pages to Hitler !! Well we had a good run....

Boskowski

diverdriver wrote: »

Saying that Irish were losing jobs to foreigners. Ask any employer about it. They'll tell you that far from excluding Irish. They had trouble finding them and then keeping them. I know of a situation where jobs were advertised and literally no one applied. Not one person, Irish or foreign.

I second that. We were looking for people everywhere, no luck. We were just short of being desperate, we organized bloody job fares. People were either not remotely qualified or simply not interested or non-existent. This is decent office IT jobs I'm talking about. Eventually the agencies got us CV's from people not living in Ireland but willing to consider relocating. Didn't work out with those either but you can't exactly say that these jobs were snatched by foreigners while Irish people lost out.

paulg1770

realcam wrote: »

Where I was going with my reply was that in the EU everyone is allowed to move everywhere within the EU and seek a job there without restrictions (more or less anyway). That's why we don't call EU citizen immigrants to begin with.
We can't just restrict this all of a sudden to people whose skills suit us. Is like saying to someone from Galway that he can't move to Dublin 'cos he's an electrician and we already have enough of them in Dublin. Under EU law I have exactly the same employment rights in Ireland that you have (assuming you're Irish) and vice versa if you were coming to my country. We can only restrict immigration for people coming here from countries outside the EU.

And once again your jumping to conclusions who said I was talking about European citizens?
To ad to my point i live in clondalkin and im on the dole at the min and when i sign on its not far off 50/50 European and non Europeans signing on. When i went to the post office dis morning to collect my 204 euro the same applied.
The old Jensen hotel in clondalkin is rented by the government at a ridiculous amount to accommodate non Europeans/refugees when they land in Ireland while they decide what to do with them. I know thats not the best conditions to live in but they get well fed and waited on and im sure this is not the only one of these operations around. This sort of do good behaviour is milking our money.
We've surely do enough for these countries and should close the gates on them until we can support ourselves again

diverdriver

this question was posted earlier and still not answered.

how is it possible for asylum seekers to go home to the country they are fleeing from on holidays ?

Simple answer: They can't. A genuine asylum seeker wouldn't. A false asylum seeker would have to explain where they went but in any case they would be stopped at the airport on the way back here.

I think there's a common misconception here that all Africans are asylum seekers. That's not true. Most Africans you see are here quite legally. As such they have every right to go home on holidays. This I think is also how the myth came about that asylum seekers are given cars. People would see an African driving a car, assume that they were asylum seekers, put two and two together and made three.

The other thing to remember is that once granted asylum, people can come and go as they please. I had a friend who fled Croatia during the war and got asylum here. He eventually went back when things had settled. But he brought a gun with him just in case.

diverdriver

12 pages to Hitler !! Well we had a good run....

You mentioned Hitler, not me. Hitler was merely one of many. In fact we don't have to leave the island for examples. 1969 and onwards might be worth considering. It happens everywhere in all forms.

Paulg, well if they are signing on they must have been here at least two years working AND importanly must have qualified just like you. Not only that far from taking the jobs off the Irish, it appears they are out of work too. They must also be in dire straits because most of them rent accomodation or even have mortgages. They won't have their parents here to move back with.

Asylum seekers are a separate issue as I pointed out above. That issue really does need to be dealt with.

the bolt

CiaranC wrote: »

For the bazzilionth time, you need two years PRSI contributions before you can sign on the dole. But dont let that get in the way of your xenophobic nonsense.

i dont know about that,where did you get that info from?i signed on a few weeks ago and quite a few non nationals were doing the same,had the all worked here for two years?

jimmmy

mike65 wrote: »

Sure where did the Irish go in the 80s? Britain was in recession and had 3 miilion unemployed in the mid 80s.

True....it amazes me how tolerant the average British person was in that era. At least a small minority of the Polish / eastern europeans do not let off bombs etc

Degsy

jimmmy wrote: »

True....it amazes me how tolerant the average British person was in that era. At least a small minority of the Polish / eastern europeans do not let off bombs etc

REAL tolerant

http://dogonablog.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/no_irish_no_blacks.jpg


People whinging about racism in this country havnt got the first idea of the meaning of the word.

jimmmy

I know many relations and friends who went to Britain to get work decades ago....none saw any signs like the one you show one home made example of....even if its genuine. All spoke of how tolerant the English / British people were and how they got jobs over there, when they could not get jobs in this country. Remarkable really, when there were 3 million unemployed in Britain at the time, and other troubles too.

What about the signs in Poland now...no Irish need apply !

the bolt

Biggins wrote: »

Tue.

I can understand both sides of the coin to be fair.
Yes, we were in the same boat many years ago.
BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system. I know not all are coming here to do this but SERIOUSLY, right now, why are they still coming otherwise in such numbers?

When we invaded England, America, Australia, etc we went with the knowledge that when we got there, we wouldn't be relying upon the state to fill our pockets. Food and shelter was to be gained by the blood and sweat of our own effort.

If we are still going to allow that many to stay, now that things are VERY bad economic-wise, maybe we should adopt a system that they have to wait, say six months before they can apply for state benefits, etc.
That way at least, they have to come to our island with a basic contingent of money to survive for a while. Maybe in those six months they might find even a basic job!

It not about picking on immigrants - it's about Ireland's economic survival.

I'd like to throw out there another thought.
When we went to other countries, the majority of the time like America and Australia, etc the economic status of the places were on the up. The building of America, the building of Australia, etc...

For the coming time at least, there has to be changes in the way things have to be done.
When we are back on more solid ground, I'll gladly welcome more in.
We just can't keep feeding everyone till the larder is bare - and meanwhile still let the awaiting line still get bigger!

anyone who thinks the irish didnt fiddle the dole in uk is in la la land ,seen it myself many times,how many came back here and built houses on the back of 714/715 scams?

the bolt

blackgold>> wrote: »

yes and they treated them like ****ing dogs.

apart from a few (too many) very well known cases i would have to disagree

Morlar

jimmmy wrote: »

Remarkable really, when there were 3 million unemployed in Britain at the time,

First of all we dont have any former colonies knocking on our door.

Secondly thats 3 million out of a population of what what 55-60 Million ? It is just not the same thing for all sorts of reasons including the SCALE of their economy which is on a par with most former economic and military superpowers. Our economy is not even close to the scale of theirs - therefore our capacity for absorbing non nationals of one flavour or another is not comparable.

Morlar

the bolt wrote: »

anyone who thinks the irish didnt fiddle the dole in uk is in la la land ,seen it myself many times,how many came back here and built houses on the back of 714/715 scams?

Maybe you should have reported them ?

What is your point ?

No one has said that Irish people are/were entitled to defraud other countries welfare systems.

Nor is anyone entitled to defraud ours.

You seem to be saying that because an undetermined number of Irish people may have been involved in criminality in the past therefore we cant complain about anybody else engaging in similair criminality here now.

Your completely wrong.

Dudess

It's not racism or xenophobia, it's a legitimate concern. But Jesus, can you just give up on the tedious "they're only appeasing the PC, bleeding-heart whatever" lines? I mean, it's VERY unoriginal, and... not very intelligent really. Oh and it's not because "they" are "afraid" of the "liberals". Stop saying stupid things.

Degsy

The liberals have very nearly destroyed this country due to thier influence on government and media.

Dudess

In what way?

Ally Dick

We've now reached the point in this country of JUSTIFIABLE xenophobia. Enoch Powell gave the warnings about unchecked immigration over 40 years ago with his famous "Rivers Of Blood" speech. The warnings weren't heeded and look what happened. Ireland signed uP to the Nice treaty (at the second time of asking, urged on by the great emancipator Bertie). We didn't know that we were signing up to the mass immigration of Soviets and other mud people from the far reaches of the EU. Now they are coming in their droves still and our own people are losing their jobs !

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

The liberals have very nearly destroyed this country due to thier influence on government and media.

Yeah damn them feckin' liberals for voting in Fianna Fáil again and again. Not a day goes by without another story of some corrupt politician taking a backhander to reroute a road around some airy fairy historical site etc.

Degsy

Dudess wrote: »

In what way?

Financially.
Liberal attitudes to economic migrants,bogus asylum seekers and foreign criminals.
Liberal attitudes to welfare fraud perpetrated by irish people.
Liberal attitudes to travellers and thier tendencey to ride roughshod over the law on the basis that thier behaviour forms part of thier culture.I'm not talking about ALL travellers,but a significant number,as featured on Prime Time investigates a while back.

javaboy

Ally Dick wrote: »

We've now reached the point in this country of JUSTIFIABLE xenophobia. Enoch Powell gave the warnings about unchecked immigration over 40 years ago with his famous "Rivers Of Blood" speech. The warnings weren't heeded and look what happened. Ireland signed uP to the Nice treaty (at the second time of asking, urged on by the great emancipator Bertie). We didn't know that we were signing up to the mass immigration of Soviets and other mud people from the far reaches of the EU. Now they are coming in their droves still and our own people are losing their jobs !

Banned. This is not a joke.

Morlar

Dudess wrote: »

It's not racism or xenophobia, it's a legitimate concern. But Jesus, can you just give up on the tedious "they're only appeasing the PC, bleeding-heart whatever" lines? I mean, it's VERY unoriginal, and... not very intelligent really. Oh and it's not because "they" are "afraid" of the "liberals". Stop saying stupid things.

I think a big part of our problem is that our politicians are terrified of being labelled as politically incorrect, reactionary, xenophobic, 'playing to our baser instincts' etc etc

Put it any way you like but that is a big part of the problem in my view.

The Media also pander to political correctness/display an artificial sense of enlightened liberalism (again give it any label you like) in this country - they are generally left leaning. Myers would probably be an exception.

The fact is that the issue of population movement into Ireland (either from asylum seekers or welfare tourists or genuine potential workers/immigrants) has been the biggest single issue to hit us in the last decade.

Yet in relation to the biggest economic crisis in the history of the state this (this; one of the more costly of factors to our exchequer) is pretty much never mentioned by either the govt or opposition.

It is the elephant in the room so to speak and the inability/unwillingness of politicians/media to address it is hard to understand. It also creates a dangerous vacum that shouting accusations of 'racism' will not make go away. imo.

I believe the reason for this is at least related to their sense of political correctness. I could be wrong on that but there is an equal chance you could be too.

Dudess

Well from what I've seen, it's become "the thing" in the past decade or so for journos to become all "anti-PC" - it's not just Myers. You've Mary Ellen Synon, Brendan O'Connor, Eoghan Harris, even John Waters.

Degsy

Its the fear of being seen to be racist that has made the government and media pander to the left wing.
How often do those crackpots in Residents Against Racism get a slot on the telly?
Too bloody often.. they're actually an offensive group of fruitcakes,the thought police in our society,championing the cause of criminals and liars who happen to be foreign,black or whatever.
The people they're defending must be laughing up thier sleeves at the whole situation..they must be thanking thier lucky stars that the irish are so afriad of racism we'll make a mockery of the asylum process and the justice system.

Degsy

Dudess wrote: »

Well from what I've seen, it's become "the thing" in the past decade or so for journos to become all "anti-PC" - it's not just Myers. You've Mary Ellen Synon, Brendan O'Connor, Eoghan Harris, even John Waters.

its not the "in" thing at all.
Its people finally getting abit of common sense after the years of nonsense.

Morlar

Dudess wrote: »

Well from what I've seen, it's become "the thing" in the past decade or so for journos to become all "anti-PC" - it's not just Myers. You've Mary Ellen Synon, Brendan O'Connor, Eoghan Harris, even John Waters.

Would you say their influence is as endemic as the influence of the dogma (for want of a better word) of political correctness in seeping into every local newspaper in our land and in dictating the policy of our national news broadcasters ? Not comparable - the above (from your post) would be the exceptions to the overall rule they are not the rule itself.

Chucky the tree

Degsy wrote: »

Financially.
Liberal attitudes to economic migrants,bogus asylum seekers and foreign criminals.
Liberal attitudes to welfare fraud perpetrated by irish people.
Liberal attitudes to travellers and thier tendencey to ride roughshod over the law on the basis that thier behaviour forms part of thier culture.I'm not talking about ALL travellers,but a significant number,as featured on Prime Time investigates a while back.

Who excactly did you vote for in the last general election?

snubbleste

Immigration is a huge issue in Ireland but it not talked about in the media, parliament or other public platforms.
It came up at the doorsteps with canvassing politicians at the last vote(Lisbon) so they are fully aware that this issue exists.

I'm currently trying to get a breakdown of the nationality of social housing applicants with my local authority, but it's very difficult information to get!