36,000 Jobs lost yet mass imigration contines

the bolt

Morlar wrote: »

There is no rule which says we can only try one approach at any given time and not try a variety of measures ALL aimed at reducing fraud and restoring integrity to the public perception of our welfare system.

If the govt cant 'find a way to stop/prevent fraudulent access to the system' then they should lose the fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist and try some newer more radical initiatives.

I would include mandatory jail time for people making fraudulent claims for example - this would include Irish born and non Irish born - I could care less.

Likewise there are some measures which would primarily target non Irish born which the govt should not shy away from as they are a considerable part of the problem and what this thread was originally about.

how much would it cost to keep the dole-fiddlers safe from the skangers in mountjoy?

djpbarry

Morlar wrote: »

The Media also pander to political correctness/display an artificial sense of enlightened liberalism (again give it any label you like) in this country - they are generally left leaning.

I couldn’t disagree more. Irish media is by-and-large a subsidiary of British media, which is overwhelmingly right-wing.

Morlar wrote: »

The fact is that the issue of population movement into Ireland (either from asylum seekers or welfare tourists or genuine potential workers/immigrants) has been the biggest single issue to hit us in the last decade.

You mean it has become an issue over the last year or so as people look for an easy target to blame for this country’s ills.

Degsy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who excactly did you vote for in the last general election?

And you are..?
The last i recall it was a private ballot so who i voted for is none of your damned business.

Morlar

djpbarry wrote: »

I couldn’t disagree more. Irish media is by-and-large a subsidiary of British media, which is overwhelmingly right-wing.

There are 2 parts to that statement - neither of which are true.

djpbarry wrote: »

You mean it has become an issue over the last year or so as people look for an easy target to blame for this country’s ills.

No if that was what I had meant then that is what I would have said.

That's an exmple of you taking what one person says and then 'translating' it into something different and posting it in place of an actual response.

snubbleste

djpbarry wrote: »

..
You mean it has become an issue over the last year or so as people look for an easy target to blame for this country’s ills.

It's been an issue for years, ever since economic refugees were discovered dead coming through a container in Rosslare in 2001 and non-EU mothers were coming to Ireland specifically to give birth to an Irish citizen.

Morlar

the bolt wrote: »

how much would it cost to keep the dole-fiddlers safe from the skangers in mountjoy?

Not to be rude but who gives a fcuk ? Who says they should be kept seperate ? Put them in a low security prison if it makes you feel better.

Degsy

djpbarry wrote: »

I couldn’t disagree more. Irish media is by-and-large a subsidiary of British media

Now thats bollocks!

I suppose as a country we're governed secretly by downing street?

Students:rolleyes:

djpbarry

Morlar wrote: »

There are 2 parts to that statement - neither of which are true.

It's an opinion, no more true or false than your opinion that Irish media is generally left-wing. It all depends on where one places the centre, doesn't it?

Morlar wrote: »

That's an exmple of you taking what one person says and then 'translating' it into something different and posting it in place of an actual response.

Country goes to ****, people point the finger at immigration rather than looking at themselves. It's a tired old tune.

Dudess

National print media: Independent Newspapers has a generally right-wing ethos, the Mail papers are very much right-wing, the red tops are right-wing... The Irish Times is left-wing, Irish Examiner didn't wear its politics on its sleeve before but it's starting to have a left-wing feel about it, the Tribune is left-wing, The Sunday Business Post - well it ain't marxist (just check out the title!) but in terms of its political leanings... fairly leftie.

Overall, about half and half, it would seem.

RTE - fairly leftie.

the bolt

Morlar wrote: »

Maybe you should have reported them ?

What is your point ?

No one has said that Irish people are/were entitled to defraud other countries welfare systems.

Nor is anyone entitled to defraud ours.

You seem to be saying that because an undetermined number of Irish people may have been involved in criminality in the past therefore we cant complain about anybody else engaging in similair criminality here now.

Your completely wrong.

i didnt know signing on the dole was a crime,sorry:rolleyes:
its not up to me to do the goverments job(finding fraud) in the welfare system

Morlar

snubbleste wrote: »

It's been an issue for years, ever since economic refugees were discovered dead coming through a container in Rosslare in 2001 and non-EU mothers were coming to Ireland specifically to give birth to an Irish citizen.

I agree that it has always been an issue. The difference now is that the PC (sorry d) stock answers to those questions no longer have any credibility.

Morlar

the bolt wrote: »

i didnt know signing on the dole was a crime,sorry:rolleyes:

Did I say signing on to the dole was a crime ? :rolley-eyes:

Degsy

Morlar wrote: »

I agree that it has always been an issue. The difference now is that the PC (sorry d) stock answers to those questions no longer have any credibility.

They never had any credibility,they were led by the nose of self-righteousnes,damnig all who opposed them with the epithet "racist".
Now people are starting to realise being called "racist" is not worse than being called "jobless".

djpbarry

Degsy wrote: »

Now thats bollocks!

Is it? Let's take newspapers for example - a pretty large chunk of papers sold in this country are Irish versions of British tabloids, e.g. The Mirror, The Sun, The Mail, etc. Even the pseudo-tabloid that is the Indo syndicates a large number of articles from British papers such as The Telegraph.

Degsy wrote: »

Students:rolleyes:

I'm not a student.

Morlar

djpbarry wrote: »

Country goes to ****, people point the finger at immigration rather than looking at themselves. It's a tired old tune.

Who said we cant multi-task ?

As mentioned before - population movement into Ireland in the last decade or so has been the most monumental since probably the founding of the state (even more so than the northern refugees during the border crisis).

This is also massively costly on an ongoing basis for all sorts of reasons as already outlined (including excessive ongoing legal appeals for unsuccessful asylum seekers etc etc) and in a time of unprecedented economic difficulty the inability or unwillingness of the government or opposition to address this wide area of issues is particularly noticeable.

Again your tactic of making people deny things they never said comes to the fore.

No-one is saying leave the public sector alone to their excesses, increase the HSE budgets even more etc Of course this isssue is a wide ranging one and there are all sorts of areas where cuts have to be made - blah blah.

You would have to be a monumental retard to think that the solution is in any one place. You would also have to be a bit slow to think that the solution in no way involves the massive population movement into our state over the last decade or so. Your response of 'tired old tune' has been noted. Thanks for that contribution to the discussion.

deadhead13

These 8621 immigrants will find it difficult to get and keep jobs. And they will be unable to claim benifits because they will not have work here for 2 years. 2009 is going to be far worse then last year. With as many as 200,000 people losing their jobs.

Events will overtake the story in the op. Many of these new immigrants, and foreigen workers already here, will have little choice but to leave. I doubt there will be anything like as many prsi number applications next january.

Its more than likely, we will also see mass Irish emigration. And there will be the same guff posted about the Irish on internet forums in the host countries.

djpbarry

Morlar wrote: »

This is also massively costly on an ongoing basis for all sorts of reasons as already outlined (including excessive ongoing legal appeals for unsuccessful asylum seekers etc etc) and in a time of unprecedented economic difficulty the inability or unwillingness of the government or opposition to address this wide area of issues is particularly noticeable.

Hang on their now - are we talking about immigrants or asylum seekers? Or are you going to lump immigrants, asylum seekers, refugees and illegal aliens all into the one category?

If it's immigrants we're talking about, then are you saying that the costs incurred by their presence in this country (presumably welfare payments for the most part, to which they are entitled) are greater than their contributions to the state coffers (as well as their contributions to the profits of landlords, retailers, etc.) over the last ten years or so, not to mention their labour contributions?

Morlar wrote: »

You would also have to be a bit slow to think that the solution in no way involves the massive population movement into our state over the last decade or so.

What “solution” are you referring to? What exactly are you proposing should be done?

Tha Gopher

KerranJast wrote: »

There are jobs. Irish people are just too stuck up to take menial work. They'd rather sponge off the Dole and watch Ricki Lake than clean toliets.

All foreigners are criminals.

I have just made a groundless generalisation. So have you. Yes, when there were better jobs the Irish were "too good" to work at x y and z. You have no proof whatsoever that Irish dole claimants are unwilling to take minimum wage labour. All you have is PC garbage.

Im going to say this once for the kids who werent listening down the back- just because the UK was stupid enough at a time of high unemployment in their own country to let in massive amounts of Irish people, many of whom were alcoholics who burdened the prison, health and housing system for years, and many of whom put their hardline republican views into action in the form of bombing the mainland,, it does not mean we owe anyone to make the same mistake. The Brits should not have allowed us to move to their country unchecked. Thank god they did, but it was immensely stupid of them.

The usual suspects are here in force I see. Djpbarry, Kintaro Hattori (he thanked every PC post for the first 3 pages, I gave up reading after that). As he at one stage reminded us every 3rd post, he apparently has strong links to Poland- I have to wonder what reaction he gives to Poles who, before the crash, told him things like "its great to be allowed to move here freely but it is irresponsible of the Irish government". Because alot of Poles Ive met cant believe there were no limits put in place.

OPENROAD

What is the current situation with the illegal irish in the US?

galwayrush

After this week, the figure 36,000 will have to be revised up.:mad:

Tha Gopher

Degsy wrote: »

And you are..?
The last i recall it was a private ballot so who i voted for is none of your damned business.

Mother of god, you voted FF didnt you :pac:

OPENROAD

galwayrush wrote: »

After this week, the figure 36,000 will have to be revised up.:mad:

It will have to be revised up weekly for months to come imo. Some have suggested we will have up to 20% unemployment.

galwayrush

galwayrush wrote: »

After this week, the figure 36,000 will have to be revised up.:mad:

No change as far as i know.
Reminds me of a shocking story ,illegal Galway guy in the States gets pneumonia but is scared to go seek medical atention and dies , young guy in his 20's.

galwayrush

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Mother of god, you voted FF didnt you :pac:

Could he live with the shame?:D

the_syco

MagicMarker wrote: »

Let's kill all the scumbags to make room for hot eastern european wimminz.

Most of whom are probably life time dole members. Win-Win.:D:rolleyes::p

K-9

This is all very interesting and everything, seems like us Irish can't emigrate now.

redarmyblues

It is no coincidence that the it is mot the Christmas Islanders, the Belizans or the Papua new Gunians that are setting off bombs in this countyry the Greenlandic people are bombing us because of their intrinsicly simian and evil natuer.

They are hyped up by their left wing press to resent us calling ourselves the emerald isle. They love our warm climate, so Ok the dole here of 398 pw is leess than the 675 they get in the eastern settelment in Greenland (including big city supplement) They also want to come here for our lovlely fat pink women aand get them pregant so they can stay here an d sign on forever setting off bombs with impunity. I mean if we hadnt conkered greenalnd they woodn't even know how to make igloos sure d irsih built nearly all the igloos in greenland.

Dudess

Degsy wrote: »

Now thats bollocks!

I suppose as a country we're governed secretly by downing street?

Students:rolleyes:

Ah Degsy, you're just caricaturing yourself now. Can't you look at all the angles, instead of focusing rigidly on the ones you want to? The same goes for people who refuse to acknowledge there has to be a good deal of control on immigration right now (not that I'm saying it's a free-for-all for immigrants and they get "everytin for nuttin" - yawn).

Chucky the tree

Degsy wrote: »

And you are..?
The last i recall it was a private ballot so who i voted for is none of your damned business.

Thanks for voting in FF. I hope your proud of yourself.

the_syco

Dudess wrote: »

The same goes for people who refuse to acknowledge there has to be a good deal of control on immigration right now (not that I'm saying it's a free-for-all for immigrants and they get "everytin for nuttin" - yawn).

Look up the "Dublin Regulation". It's not a free-for-all, but anyone can come in.

green123

diverdriver wrote: »

I think there's a common misconception here that all Africans are asylum seekers. That's not true. Most Africans you see are here quite legally.

nearly all start out as asylum seekers surely ?
how else can they come here ?

diverdriver wrote: »

The other thing to remember is that once granted asylum, people can come and go as they please.

how very convenient for them :rolleyes:

so when they arrive they are fleeing from their country, but as soon as they get asylum, then all of a sudden things are ok again back in their country and they can go back on holidays.

at the same time one lot are going back on holidays another lot are fleeing the same counrty and claiming asylum here.

it simple does not add up, they are taking the piss with false claims, simple as that

K-9

green123 wrote: »

nearly all start out as asylum seekers surely ?
how else can they come here ?



how very convenient for them :rolleyes:

so when they arrive they are fleeing from their country, but as soon as they get asylum, then all of a sudden things are ok again back in their country and they can go back on holidays.

at the same time one lot are going back on holidays another lot are fleeing the same counrty and claiming asylum here.

it simple does not add up, they are taking the piss with false claims, simple as that

The problem is the system, not asylum seekers.

Don't get the 2 mixed up as some do.

Mena

green123 wrote: »

nearly all start out as asylum seekers surely ?
how else can they come here ?

Of all the Africans I know in Ireland, and we're talking plenty, most came here on work permits or the newer green card system the INIS introduced.

It's how I got here going on nine years ago, headhunted from the dark continent during the IT skills shortage initially on a work permit, now with permanent residence.

That's how else we can come here.

green123 wrote: »

how very convenient for them

so when they arrive they are fleeing from their country, but as soon as they get asylum, then all of a sudden things are ok again back in their country and they can go back on holidays.

at the same time one lot are going back on holidays another lot are fleeing the same counrty and claiming asylum here.

it simple does not add up, they are taking the piss with false claims, simple as that

I've missed a few posts, but how are you claiming " a lot " go back on holidays to the country they are fleeing?

Another note, I've seen a good few posters saying it's easy to get into Ireland... as someone who has gone through the immigration process, and as someone who knows people who have gone (legitimately) through the asylum process, trust me, it's not easy. It's a nightmare. You try dealing with the INIS, as a legal immigrant. Seriously, the xenophobic and racist attitudes I and my wife have been subject to, year on year for seven years now is demeaning. It's not something I would wish on anyone (the attitudes get better the further away from Dublin you go however).

Legal immigration into Ireland is a farce and if it hadn't affected me directly I would laugh. The legislation is nothing short of pathetic and needs a total re-write. At this stage, I think you need to just copy the British or Australians, at least their systems are transparent. Here you're at the whim of whatever snotty little prick is lucky enough to be at the window when you need to re-register, year on year on year. Try living legally in a country for seven years not knowing from day to day what your revised status will be the next time you deal with the INIS.

Thank @£;$^% I no longer have to deal with them.

/rant

The Saint

green123 wrote: »

nearly all start out as asylum seekers surely ?
how else can they come here ?

People can obtain work permits to work here legally. Companies can sponsor people to stay. If these people live here long enough they can apply for citizenship. Also not all black people you see are African. There are many black Europeans that can work here perfectly legally.

green123 wrote: »

how very convenient for them :rolleyes:

so when they arrive they are fleeing from their country, but as soon as they get asylum, then all of a sudden things are ok again back in their country and they can go back on holidays.

at the same time one lot are going back on holidays another lot are fleeing the same counrty and claiming asylum here.

it simple does not add up, they are taking the piss with false claims, simple as that

Simple as that eh? I suggest you read up on the difference between an illeagal immigrant, an asylum seeker and a refugee. A refugee is someone who has been granted asylum as the authorities are suffieciently convinced that the asylum applicant is in danger in their own country. They are therefore here perfectly legitimately. We have obligations under international law through the UNHCR to aid genuine asylum seekers. If they are genuine asylum seekers it is highly unlikely that they will be returning to their own country due to the harm that might come to them. Do you have any evidence of someone granted asylum returning to their own country for holidays while the threat to them is still there?

Found this article quite interesting:

Exposed: The myth of Ireland's liberal asylum policy
Ken Foxe
Just 0.01% of Nigerians granted asylum in the past two years
NIGERIAN people arriving in Ireland have practically no chance of being granted asylum, according to figures obtained by the Sunday Tribune.

The figures, which also indicate that asylum applications from Chinese people are almost always refused, demolish claims by anti-immigrant groups that Ireland has an open-door immigration policy. Fewer than 20 Nigerian nationals have been recognised as refugees in the past two years, despite more than 1,500 applications, the figures show.

For an individual to be granted asylum in Ireland, they must meet very strict criteria, and their best chance of success appears to come if their country is at war.

Around 44% of Iraqis have been granted asylum over the past two years, making them the most successful nationality in terms of applications.

Sudanese nationals also have a high chance of success, with around 40% of applications accepted by immigration authorities.

Of 215 asylum applications received from would-be refugees from Sudan, 84 were granted, many of them from people fleeing civil war in the Darfur region.

By comparison, Nigerians have a less than 0.01% chance of being granted refugee status in Ireland, no matter what their personal circumstances.

In many cases, African nationals have told authorities how they could face execution, imprisonment or genital mutilation, but they simply are not being believed. Of 1,513 applications from Nigeria in the past 18 months, fewer than 18 have been successful.

The Nigerian embassy in Dublin said the figures were unsurprising, as the vast majority of asylum seekers from their country were in fact "economic migrants".

A spokesman said: "This low success rate is to be expected precisely because our country is not on any UN danger list. It is not a conflict zone; there are no disturbances within the country. We are running a democratic country".

However, Nigeria is sharply criticised in Amnesty International's latest report for human rights violations.

Chinese nationals also face a near blanket refusal for claims. More than 330 people from China, which has one of the worst human rights records in the world, have sought refugee status since the beginning of 2007 but no more than 18 have been successful.

The Irish Refugee Council said that Ireland had consistently one of the highest rates of refusal in the European Union for asylum seekers.

Caoimhe Sheridan, the Council's Legal Officer, said: "On any comparison, our rates are extremely low. If you look at the UK, between 18% and 21% of people are successful, in Germany, it's 25%, in Sweden, 48%. Our acceptance rate is between 9% and 10%".

Aine Ní Chónaill of the Immigration Control Platform said: "Nigeria may not be a particularly nice country to live in; unfortunately that does not translate into an entitlement to refugee status. Almost all cases involve economic migrants, mostly people of significant means who have managed to leave Africa in the first place."

A statement from the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner said: "Each application is considered on its own merits. Applicants are advised of their entitlement to consult with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and to seek legal assistance in connection with their application."

As for bogus and failed asylum seekers, they should be shipped home and given no support. The system to do this should be strengthened.

green123

Mena wrote: »

Of all the Africans I know in Ireland, and we're talking plenty, most came here on work permits

headhunted from the dark continent during the IT skills shortage initially on a work permit

well of all the africans that i know, and again we are talking plenty, almost none could have been headhunted because most of them are working in unskilled jobs at minimium wage.

so i still believe almost all came to be here through false asylum claims through our weak system, which they choose to take advantage of

Mena wrote: »

I've missed a few posts, but how are you claiming " a lot " go back on holidays to the country they are fleeing?

i work with lots of them, they regurlarly go back to mainly nigeria and other african countries on holidays.

how is it possible for so many to go back on holidays, while so many others are coming in the other direction claiming asylum ?

MIN2511

green123 wrote: »

nearly all start out as asylum seekers surely ?
how else can they come here ?



how very convenient for them :rolleyes:

so when they arrive they are fleeing from their country, but as soon as they get asylum, then all of a sudden things are ok again back in their country and they can go back on holidays.

at the same time one lot are going back on holidays another lot are fleeing the same counrty and claiming asylum here.

it simple does not add up, they are taking the piss with false claims, simple as that

How do you generalise stuff like that....
I am African-I am Nigerian
I AM NOT AN ASYLUM SEEKER!

OPENROAD

green123 wrote: »

well of all the africans that i know, and again we are talking plenty, almost none could have been headhunted because most of them are working in unskilled jobs at minimium wage.

What about working permits? When you say you know plenty, how many?

Mena

MIN2511 wrote: »

How do you generalise stuff like that....
I am African-I AM NOT AN ASYLUM SEEKER!

Don't burst his perfect little bubble!!

green123 wrote:

i work with lots of them, they regurlarly go back to mainly nigeria and other african countries on holidays.

how is it possible for so many to go back on holidays, while so many others are coming in the other direction claiming asylum ?

How do you know they claimed and received asylum? How do you know they did not get here via work permits? Or are actually Irish, or EU citizens, despite being the wrong colour? You do know that less than 1% of Nigerians actually become refugees? You seem to have met all of them.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

What about working permits? When you say you know plenty, how many?

This thread is all about generalisations, you pinko, liberal, pc'er.

It doesn't need your type of FACTS.

The Saint

green123 wrote: »

well of all the africans that i know, and again we are talking plenty, almost none could have been headhunted because most of them are working in unskilled jobs at minimium wage.

so i still believe almost all came to be here through false asylum claims through our weak system, which they choose to take advantage of

i work with lots of them, they regurlarly go back to mainly nigeria and other african countries on holidays.

how is it possible for so many to go back on holidays, while so many others are coming in the other direction claiming asylum ?

Um, if these people you supposedly work with are asylum seekers who have not been granted refugee status or have had their applications rejected then they are working illegally. If this is the case I'd suggest you report your employer and these workers to the authorities as what they are doing is illegal. If, as I assume is the case, that you don't actually know the true circumstances of these people I'd suggest you refrain from bringing it up as evidence.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

This thread is all about generalisations, you pinko, liberal, pc'er.

It doesn't need your type of FACTS.

eh?

The Saint

OPENROAD wrote: »

eh?

Um, I think that was sarcasm.

Mena

The Saint wrote: »

Um, I think that was sarcasm.

It's always so much funnier when you don't have to explain it

K-9

LOL

I asked the ould Degser did he report the SW fraudsters he moans about.

He just kept moaning and never answered the question, plus as shown on this thread, he doesn't read responses.

He's on ignore.

The Saint

Mena wrote: »

It's always so much funnier when you don't have to explain it

Woops. Is that like someone telling a joke and forgetting the punchline? Maybe an approriately inserted emoticon would have helped.

K-9

Mena wrote: »

It's always so much funnier when you don't have to explain it

LOL, I did hope it was self explanatory.

Seeing some of the contributions on this thread, I see why it needs to be explained.

There are some pinko, liberal, pc'ers on this thread I'd guess, no doubt, I'd guess there are racists on here too, NO doubt.

Mena

I bet there's an appropriate lolcat floating around somewhere for this!

K-9

Read my sig.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

LOL, I did hope it was self explanatory.

Thought so but reading some of the comments on this topic, their was an element of doubt.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

Thought so but reading some of the comments on this topic, their was an element of doubt.

Indeed, I did say that in the rest of my post you didn't quote.

Goodnight.