UNMARKED CAR SPEEDING PROCEDURE

towel401

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I personally think the ANPR is a great thing as it will allow the guards to target cars involved in crime and cars with no NCT or insurance rather than wasting their time catching minor speeders while some buck drives past with no insurance!

no its just one more step toward a police state like England. do you really care if someone goes around with no NCT? that thing is a joke anyway - give your car to a few polish cowboys so they can have a go at trying to break it.

kraggy

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

AGS do not have to stop you but generally we do out. Think about it. How do you get a parking fine. Number plate is all thats needed and then the fine is sent out to the registered owner. Under Section 107 of Road Traffic Act 1961-06 the registered owner must then declare the driver at the time. As i said though cars are normally stopped and details taken to be sure to be sure and to let people know that they have been detected and wont need to think where they were at that time two weeks later.

Secondly ANPR is calibrated and is certified. Travelling behind the offending vehicle shows correct speed. Also there is case law for un calibrated garda vehicles travelling behind cars to prosecute for speed. All that needs to be done is after the detecting the PSV inspector must ''clock'' the vehicle using the speed gun to show how far out the speedo is. Hope it helps:)

Does your first paragraph apply to speed guns when an unmarked car is parked at the side of the road? If they don't stop you or follow you and ask you to stop, can you still get points and fined?

Seth Brundle

jedijonvtec wrote: »

well i was caught with a speed gun at 11 one night doin 85 in dense fog on motorway. thats how i know they still work in bad weather. got fcn off cop and went to try challenge decision.

In fairness, doing 85 (hopefully you are talking km/h) in dense fog is pretty stupid and be grateful that a garda pulled you over!

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Im not saying its incorrect, but it sounds illogical, where in the law does it say that speed gun doesnt need to be proven to work or proven to be calibrated correctly?

IIRC the Road Traffic Act 2004. It doesn't state that it doesn't have to be calibrated. It says that there will be a presumption that it is calibrated thereby removing the possibility of a claim against its accuracy

D_murph

kbannon wrote: »

IIRC the Road Traffic Act 2004. It doesn't state that it doesn't have to be calibrated. It says that there will be a presumption that it is calibrated thereby removing the possibility of a claim against its accuracy

I dont like the sound of that. For all we know, the Guard could have damaged the gun by accidentally dropping it or something and then gets an erroneous speed reading on your car and, BAM!! You're done and cant prove you're innocent because the law says that they need not bother to ensure their equipment is working ok to convict you :rolleyes:.

Better chance of getting away with a murder in this country than a speeding ticket and at least you can try and defend yourself if charged with that.

TheNog

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

do not surrender you license in acknowledgement that points will be put on it.

This is bad advice and definitely would not recommend it to anyone because there is 2 offences you could be done for.

If a Garda asks you for your licence and you say "No", it is automatically an offence not allow a Garda to read your licence. You would be summonsed to court along with your speeding and whatever other offences. You would get hammered in court for it.

Secondly if you say you dont have it with you, you are again committing an offence as you must carry your licence with you at all times while driving. I have never seen anyone prosecuted for it as people are given the 10 days to produce instead but the piece of legislation is still there.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

In relation to the guards issuing whats called a producer, this is true but if they take license details at the side of the road, the automatic process of assumed guilt by the driver in question has been started and is much more difficult to stop the prosecution process and issuing of penalty points than it is to make a formal written objection at the station when producing your license.

Again you assume the guilt when you pay the fine. If you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish.

stealthyspeeder

TheNog wrote: »

This is bad advice and definitely would not recommend it to anyone because there is 2 offences you could be done for.

If a Garda asks you for your licence and you say "No", it is automatically an offence not allow a Garda to read your licence. You would be summonsed to court along with your speeding and whatever other offences. You would get hammered in court for it.

Secondly if you say you dont have it with you, you are again committing an offence as you must carry your licence with you at all times while driving. I have never seen anyone prosecuted for it as people are given the 10 days to produce instead but the piece of legislation is still there.



Again you assume the guilt when you pay the fine. If you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish.

I would not drive with my license on me for two reasons, Firstly if I kept it in the car and the car got stolen, I would lose it and if I kept it on my person, there is a high chance that it could fall out of my pocket or I could lose my wallet or have my wallet stolen. A drivers license is gold to a fraudster and I would not want it to fall into their hands. For this reason I would keep it in a safe at home. The law (along with most reasonable guards) recognise this and will issue you with a producer if they really want to see your license.

This is a valid point on its own but the second reason I would not carry it, is that if I do not have it, the guard will have to issue the producer if he wants to take it further, this is hassle for them and will only do it if they believe the outcome to be beneficial. It also gives me more time to gather my thoughts and make a formal written complaint at the station if charges were to be brought forward.

In reference to the point, "you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish" I swould say this would be inconvienent, stressfull and a lot of hassle, I would prefer that the incident did not go any further than a chat and a letter to the Guard in charge at the station.

If you have not been speeding, but you have been accused of speeding by a guard, if you give your license details, you will get a ticket and you will be summoned to court if you refuse to pay. If you deny speeding and do not have your license to hand (if the guard wants to he may) ask you to produce your license at a station. When you arrive, speak to Guard in charge, give him a letter (take a copy and ask him to sign that he recieved it) which outlines the incident in your terms, and requests a summary of the evidence against you, also inform him that you will contest any prosecution against you. If you do this it is much more likely that the incident will not be taken further and you will not have the stress, hassle and worry of a court apperance.

TheNog

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

This is a valid point on its own but the second reason I would not carry it, is that if I do not have it, the guard will have to issue the producer if he wants to take it further, this is hassle for them and will only do it if they believe the outcome to be beneficial. It also gives me more time to gather my thoughts and make a formal written complaint at the station if charges were to be brought forward.

ok so you do all this if you were stopped for speeding?

Have you done this before and it worked out for you?

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

In reference to the point, "you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish" I swould say this would be inconvienent, stressfull and a lot of hassle, I would prefer that the incident did not go any further than a chat and a letter to the Guard in charge at the station.

What would the letter say?

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If you have not been speeding, but you have been accused of speeding by a guard, if you give your license details, you will get a ticket and you will be summoned to court if you refuse to pay. If you deny speeding and do not have your license to hand (if the guard wants to he may) ask you to produce your license at a station. When you arrive, speak to Guard in charge, give him a letter (take a copy and ask him to sign that he recieved it) which outlines the incident in your terms, and requests a summary of the evidence against you, also inform him that you will contest any prosecution against you. If you do this it is much more likely that the incident will not be taken further and you will not have the stress, hassle and worry of a court apperance.

I dont get this part. Why would you be stopped for speeding only if they didnt or couldnt show you the speed on the speed gun?

Orla K

stealthyspeeder

I'm less inclined to trust or even believe anything you say given your username.

TheNog

Orla K wrote: »

stealthyspeeder

I'm less inclined to trust or even believe anything you say given your username.

hahahaha funny

Orla K

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

And that my dear will keep you out of court if you do ever get caught speeding. Thank god some have sense!!!;)

What'll keep me out of court is my uncle who was a detective garda or garda detective (can't remember which is right) and he knows most of the top gardai. I'm also only learning so I have him as my accomping driver.

donvito99

From Garda .ie


Automatic Number Plate Recognition [/FONT]
An Garda Síochána is in the process of fitting Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) systems to Garda Traffic Corps vehicles. This system is used in patrol cars by many police forces worldwide. Systems can scan number plates at around one per second on cars travelling up to 160 kilometres per hour
ANPR systems also include a speed detection capability. This allows for the measuring of the speed of a vehicle travelling in front of a patrol vehicle. The video camera records on-the-scene evidence of speeding, and offences such as dangerous driving, crossing continuous white lines and breaking red light.

One of the main benefits of the system is that the plate recognition can run in the background while Gardaí are measuring speed or attending to other issues as demands dictate.

All vehicles fitted with ANPR camera systems will be able to identify vehicles as being stolen, untaxed, suspect, cited as connected with terrorist suspects, crime groups, drug trafficking, people trafficking and/or persistent offending.

The systems therefore make a significant contribution to the fight against serious and organised criminal activity.

stealthyspeeder

TheNog wrote: »

ok so you do all this if you were stopped for speeding?

Have you done this before and it worked out for you?



What would the letter say?



I dont get this part. Why would you be stopped for speeding only if they didnt or couldnt show you the speed on the speed gun?

Firstly, I am aware my username is doing me no favors here!:o

I wouldnt encourage people to do what I do, but from my own experience (which I'll get to in a sec) I have found it has it benefits. I am always polite and courteuous towards any guard who is doing his job in a proffesional way (there have been occasions where I have found the service of the guards to be unreasonable or unsatisfactory, but I this is a good thread that should not descend in guard bashing.)and I have found that guards will only go out of their way to piss you off (eg summons you to court for failing to have your license on you at that momment) if you go out of your way to piss them off with poor manners and lack of respect. The fact that there guards do have the power to issue a producer really seems to indicate to me the laws understanding of peoples need to keep their license in a safe place.

If I was stopped for speeding when I was sure I was not speeding I would inform the guard that I was not speeding, I would inform him that I didnt have my license on me, I would explain to him why I was sure that I not speeding, and I would ask him to explain why he thought I was speeding and ask him if he could prove that I was speeding.

I have been stopped by the guards (i refered to it in an earlier post on this thread), when the guard realised that I was not going to accept his version of the incident, was adament that I was innocent, did not have my license on me and he could not prove in any way that I was speeding, he did not even issue a producer.

My letter would contain all the facts that I could remember about the incident, my speed, time, road numberplates etc, guards approach, conversation that we had, what proof the guard informed me he had. Outline my understanding that if the guard thought I was speeding, he had to act, but seek understanding that sometimes guards can make mistakes as well, and my dissatisfaction that a mistake has occured at my inconvience, Inform the guards that I intend to contest any prosecution against me and a request for a signature (in case it went to court, this could be used as evidence that a second reasonable attempt has been made by myself to vindicate myself)

As for why I would be stopped for speeding if it couldnt be shown a gun? I assume that accelation under high rev's up to (but not exceeding) the speed limit could give the illusion of speed to an overzealous guard? I cannot know for sure as I only guard how stopped me can know for sure why he stopped me for speeding when I wasnt.

stealthyspeeder

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

And that my dear will keep you out of court if you do ever get caught speeding. Thank god some have sense!!!;)

not trusting someone because of their name will keep you out of court? nice one ballyb!

peasant

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I assume that accelation under high rev's up to (but not exceeding) the speed limit could give the illusion of speed to an overzealous guard? I cannot know for sure as I only guard how stopped me can know for sure why he stopped me for speeding when I wasnt.

In other words ...you were tearing away from somehwere, got stopped by a guard for speeding and didn't take their word for it because you didn't exceed the speed limit.

Fair enough ...but now stop "advising" people not to carry their licence with them.

CLADA

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

My letter would contain all the facts that I could remember about the incident, my speed, time, road numberplates etc, guards approach, conversation that we had, what proof the guard informed me he had. Outline my understanding that if the guard thought I was speeding, he had to act, but seek understanding that sometimes guards can make mistakes as well, and my dissatisfaction that a mistake has occured at my inconvience, Inform the guards that I intend to contest any prosecution against me and a request for a signature (in case it went to court, this could be used as evidence that a second reasonable attempt has been made by myself to vindicate myself)

Could you elaborate a bit on what the purpose of the letter is and who it's addressed to?

The request for a signature as well, what's that about?

stealthyspeeder

peasant wrote: »

In other words ...you were tearing away from somehwere, got stopped by a guard for speeding and didn't take their word for it because you didn't exceed the speed limit.

Fair enough ...but now stop "advising" people not to carry their licence with them.

Thats pretty much why I was stopped, and I was not going over the speed limit. I would not advise people to not carry their licenses when driving, but I will say I do not carry mine, and I have explained the reason.

Ballyb - which of my comments about the topic of speeding do you find ridiculous? I have not said I speed, I have not encouraged others to speed, I have merely outlined my response to an incorrect allegation of speeding. Do you find taking every effort to ensure the states resourses are not wasted on pursuing an incorrect allegation ridiculous?

My letter would be addressed to the superindentant of the station to which the guard who made the allegation was based. The first purpose of the letter would be to highlight in a formal way that you believe a mistake has been made and your reasons for this belief. Second to request that the charges are dropped, thirdly to inform him that if they are not dropped, they will be contested. And finally the signature on the letter will certify that it has been read (if the superindendant decided not to drop the case (which would not have started yet as I would only just have produced my license!)) This will show a judge in court that not only did you contest the descion with the officer at the roadside, but that you have highlighted to the guards you objection formally and rationally, if the guards were not to respond to this letter before the court date, this would be looked on unfavourably by a judge. With this in your favour and and no presentable evidence from the guard other than his contested word I percieve the likelyhood of conviction to be less than taking no action.

peasant

peasant wrote: »

...but now stop "advising" people not to carry their licence with them.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I would not advise people to not carry their licenses when driving, but I will say I do not carry mine, and I have explained the reason.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I wouldnt encourage people to do what I do, but from my own experience (which I'll get to in a sec) I have found it has it benefits.

You can get as smart arsed with the cops as you like, but not with me, buddy.

People are required to carry their driving licence at all times no matter how "beneficial" you think it is to do otherwise.
Your whole strategy that you outline so eloquently is based on breaking the law in the first place (even if you aren't speeding)

Now shuddup ...final warning

Seth Brundle

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Firstly, I am aware my username is doing me no favors here!:o

I think its your posts rather than your username!

dingding

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

By the letter of the law yes. Again all we need is the reg number. But i've never never heard of anyone doing it. Its better to stop the person and outline the offence, location etc. They can then tell you why they were speeding. (We do have hearts you know. excuses are listened to but might not always work!!!):D

What would be a good excuse

What was the best one you heard

CLADA

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

My letter would be addressed to the superindentant of the station to which the guard who made the allegation was based. The first purpose of the letter would be to highlight in a formal way that you believe a mistake has been made and your reasons for this belief. Second to request that the charges are dropped, thirdly to inform him that if they are not dropped, they will be contested. And finally the signature on the letter will certify that it has been read (if the superindendant decided not to drop the case (which would not have started yet as I would only just have produced my license!)) This will show a judge in court that not only did you contest the descion with the officer at the roadside, but that you have highlighted to the guards you objection formally and rationally, if the guards were not to respond to this letter before the court date, this would be looked on unfavourably by a judge. With this in your favour and and no presentable evidence from the guard other than his contested word I percieve the likelyhood of conviction to be less than taking no action.

That's interesting, but it's not the first time I've come across this. I wish you the best of luck if and when you do take this course of action. You will actually be doing the prosecuting Garda a favour, he will give his evidence, you will outline your well prepared defence, the judge will read this famous letter, look down at you in that way only judges can and tear you a new one....

There's a half price sale in Clerys at the moment buy a comfortable pair of hush puppies, I predict a lot of walking in your future.

bryanmurr

think ur watchin too many tv shows horse.

no such thing as issuing a producer, a verbal demand is made for the production of documents. the guard doenst have to wait till u produce said documents either. we can input the offence there and then on the side of the road with the FCPS handheld machine. which means by the time u produce ur licence and letter, the FCPS notice could be in the post to u.

were you shown the gun when u were stopped for "alleged" speeding?

techi

Hi Guys,
Maybe someone can give me some advise, I was stopped last night for speeding. I am pretty sure I was not doing speed alledged and a work mate was in car behind me called me shortly after to confirm same.

The garda was very polite etc.. and continued to tell me he had given other drivers the benefit of doubt earlier and went on to say in particular about a taxi driver that he and 2 other gardai had let go at different times and mentioned the other gardai by name. He then went on to say he can tell if a car is speeding just by looking at it.
My work mate behind me is fully convinced the two gardai were looking at speed gun like something was wrong with it.

I stated to him I was not going the speed indicated his response was "sure your driving an Audi A4" I stated "and" he said " they can easiy get to xx"

Now dont get me wrong if im caught fair and square I'll take the slap but I do believe an error has occured.

So I'm at an odds what to do, some constructive advise would help guys.

Cheers
techi

L-M

Zombie thread. Please start a new thread in the Motors section.