Anybody else completely disillusioned with Irish Politics?

Running Bing

I have been thinking about this a lot recently and just who do you vote for?

Fianna Fail: Stand for nothing now except incompetence and cronyism. If people still feel the need to vote for them after what they have done to this country it really is a sad indictment of the state of politics in Ireland.

Fianna Gael: If I ever need somebody to bitch, moan, criticise and complain Enda Kenny would be my first port of call but can you imagine FG in power? Their like Fianna Fail Lite. Even less inspirational than the clowns we have in charge at the moment.

Labour: Do people still take socialism seriously in this day and age? Great at rhetoric but can you imagine them trying to dig us out of the hole we are in?

Green Party: Can you imagine an Ireland under the control of the greens? I can.....shudder.

Sinn Fein: I actually think they are the most sincere and intelligent bunch out there (dont laugh) but they live in a fantasy land. I could never bring myself to vote for a party with such fantastical economic policies.

Some time in the next few years I will vote for the first time in a general election and I have absolutely no idea who I will vote for. I look at that list above and it rouses nothing but apathy in me. Nothing exciting, nothing to give the country hope, nothing that even meets the bare level of competence needed to push the country forward.

It seems like anybody I talk to about this says things like "Ill vote for x party...they have to be better than the other bunch" or "Ah sure we'll give y party a try and see how it goes". Is that what it has come to? It is a sad state of affairs that people come to vote for the government of this country simply because they aren't as bad as the other incompetent fools on offer.

dizzywizlw

I know how, you feel, especially considering that all the parties don't actually differ in the slightest except for the sinners who would love to see an uber nationalist argi-economic sess pitt for an ireland.

Greens-pointless, have no political substance and have failed as part of the current government.

Fianna Fail- Greedy and ineffective, people who voted for them were either bored to death by enda or on the gravy train, if ever there was a party to be called the Blackrock Free Ride party this is them.

Labour-Socialism is falwed in even its basic premise (class systems) and Trade Unions are disgracful and greedy in modern ireland, a workers party?

Fine Gael- Such a poor oposition, I can't believe that i joined them for awhile, Enda couldn't give a speech to a room full of deafs

The Sinners- Ill-informed Euro-Sceptics whose idea of politics is a red-diesel development plan, would emigrate permanently if they were ever to get to power.

Voting in Ireland has reached its lowest ebb, therefore either spoil your vote or go independent either way, we get the government that we deserve as a bunch of idiots afraid of change and distracted by shinny things.

You could always start a new party.:D

garrincha62

dizzywizlw wrote: »

The Sinners- Ill-informed Euro-Sceptics whose idea of politics is a red-diesel development plan, would emigrate permanently if they were ever to get to power.

+1

yomchi

Babybing wrote: »

I have been thinking about this a lot recently and just who do you vote for?

Fianna Fail: Stand for nothing now except incompetence and cronyism. If people still feel the need to vote for them after what they have done to this country it really is a sad indictment of the state of politics in Ireland.

Fianna Gael: If I ever need somebody to bitch, moan, criticise and complain Enda Kenny would be my first port of call but can you imagine FG in power? Their like Fianna Fail Lite. Even less inspirational than the clowns we have in charge at the moment.

Labour: Do people still take socialism seriously in this day and age? Great at rhetoric but can you imagine them trying to dig us out of the hole we are in?

Green Party: Can you imagine an Ireland under the control of the greens? I can.....shudder.

Sinn Fein: I actually think they are the most sincere and intelligent bunch out there (dont laugh) but they live in a fantasy land. I could never bring myself to vote for a party with such fantastical economic policies.

Some time in the next few years I will vote for the first time in a general election and I have absolutely no idea who I will vote for. I look at that list above and it rouses nothing but apathy in me. Nothing exciting, nothing to give the country hope, nothing that even meets the bare level of competence needed to push the country forward.

It seems like anybody I talk to about this says things like "Ill vote for x party...they have to be better than the other bunch" or "Ah sure we'll give y party a try and see how it goes". Is that what it has come to? It is a sad state of affairs that people come to vote for the government of this country simply because they aren't as bad as the other incompetent fools on offer.

It great to see that you're taking the whole idea of voting in this country with a serious note. Fair play. The Irish electorate are a fickle bunch with the majority of them voting for who they 'like' the most as opposed to any actual policies.
What do you not like about SF's economics? Maybe I could send you some helpful links to read. Let me know what part of the economics you disagree with.

The Sinners- Ill-informed Euro-Sceptics whose idea of politics is a red-diesel development plan, would emigrate permanently if they were ever to get to power.

Ill informed / irony. Euro sceptics? How much do you know about the European Union? what parts do you agree with and let me know what parts SF work against, would you do that? - thanks.

Red diesel development plan - thats a great response, full of facts, good job :rolleyes:

turgon

I think a more pertinent question would be is there anyone not disillusioned by Irish politics.

But in fairness I like Eamon Gilmore. Hes passionate, without sounding dogmatic. Hes a long shot better then Enda.

thebman

I think people are being unfair on the labour party TBH.

They aren't like a classic labour party from what I can see.

FG aren't all bad either. There are some bright people there. Sure they'd get corrupt once in but so will all politicians.

I think the trick with politics is to change often. I don't think a party should be in for too long. FF definitely are in power too long.

ChocolateSauce

I was never under the illusion that any Irish political party was any good.

We need a Lib dems-style party, one that sticks to its ideals and doesn't change policy based on what will get them the most votes.

li@mo

Fianna Fail - Broken Promises but yet they saw us through the good times.
If politics was a football team I'd still want more of theses guys than lasds from Fine Gael

Fine Gael - Hold one of the best politicians in the land with Richard Bruton but Enda Kenny just isnt cut out to be Taoiseach. Can they end the recession? In one word - No

Labour - Too many feckin eejits really....except Eamon Gilmore who is a fine leader.

Greens - I admire John Gormely, Trevor Sargeant and Eamon Ryan for their initiative but I think Governemt was a big mistake for them. Too many Fianna Fail policy issues overpowering the Greens.

Sinn Fein- = IRA......and I cant vote for murderers. Maybe Im extreme but Ill die before I ever see these in power.

ednwireland

i moved here in 1997 i was never illusioned to become disillusioned. i've always thought that the talent pool for politicians is so small how do you get round it ?

nesf

ednwireland wrote: »

i've always thought that the talent pool for politicians is so small how do you get round it ?

Short of rejoining the UK, there's not much we can do about it.

dizzywizlw

Jon wrote: »

What do you not like about SF's economics? Maybe I could send you some helpful links to read. Let me know what part of the economics you disagree with.



Ill informed / irony. Euro sceptics? How much do you know about the European Union? what parts do you agree with and let me know what parts SF work against, would you do that? - thanks.

Red diesel development plan - thats a great response, full of facts, good job :rolleyes:

I Know a fair bit about the EU and its bodies, considering that I am studying them as part of my course.Do you mean what parts of the EU do I agree with that SF work against? If so;
I agree with the EMU wholeheartedly except fro the corporation tax (Which sinn fein would raise to 30 odd precent.)
direct from their website
"The role of the European Union in Irish society has been an everincreasing one, to the extent that there are few aspects of Irish political, social and economic life that the EU does not have a dominant and often negative influence over."
It is not a negative effect, in fact we are all the better for our membership of the EU, and after the Billions that we have recieved we could be a little more accepting (not meant in a bribe way but in a,they didnt have to but they did).

The implications of Enlargement- aka dem bleedin forinners!

this ones a peach "The EU to use its influence to ensure that Irish social spending is increased in order to come in line with European standards"- says the party that sput sovereignty and nationalism

Not to mention their opposition to the Lisbon Treaty (and know before you ask I haven't read the full document only a 'summary'- its fookin long) which really was idiotic no matter what you may say, especially the soldiers and abortion bollox.

Tihs isn't meant to be some sort of attack, just thought I'd put that in there before I moved on to Economics.

-SF actively seeks a more welfare than capitalist state which I disagree with

-the say they are a left party economiclly while bemoaning 'surviavl of the fittest capitalism' which is part of Neo-Liberal economic thought I.E. left wing. Thats a big factor I reckon.

Also they contend that they want to lead ireladn towards social justice with help from the UN, and then give out about federalism.

You tell me how that makes sense?

Red-Diesel was a joke man, don't kneecap me

Coillte_Bhoy

Babybing wrote: »

I have been thinking about this a lot recently and just who do you vote for?

Labour: Do people still take socialism seriously in this day and age? Great at rhetoric but can you imagine them trying to dig us out of the hole we are in?

Do poeple still take capitalism seriously after the meltdown we are living through? And seconsly what has the Irish Labour party got to do with socialism??

mike65

Not that much these days! Just as well, the party of beards that wanted local radio to be state controlled is long gone.

*Honey*

Personally, if there was election tomorrow, I'd vote for Labour (specifically Eamon Gilmore as he's in my area). I've never in my life voted for FF and I'm sure as hell not going to start now. FG ... no way, not under the, ahem, "leadership" of EDNA Kenny. SF ... not in a billion years. The Greens - I really feel they let us down in the last election, I would have sworn they'd never side with FF and I'm very disappointed that they did.

It's Labour or no-one for me to be honest. If FG changed it's leadership, I might vote for them too but not with that moany old woman in charge (Edna I mean).

yomchi

dizzywizlw wrote: »

I Know a fair bit about the EU and its bodies, considering that I am studying them as part of my course.Do you mean what parts of the EU do I agree with that SF work against? If so;
I agree with the EMU wholeheartedly except fro the corporation tax (Which sinn fein would raise to 30 odd precent.)
direct from their website
"The role of the European Union in Irish society has been an everincreasing one, to the extent that there are few aspects of Irish political, social and economic life that the EU does not have a dominant and often negative influence over."
It is not a negative effect, in fact we are all the better for our membership of the EU, and after the Billions that we have recieved we could be a little more accepting (not meant in a bribe way but in a,they didnt have to but they did).

The implications of Enlargement- aka dem bleedin forinners!

this ones a peach "The EU to use its influence to ensure that Irish social spending is increased in order to come in line with European standards"- says the party that sput sovereignty and nationalism

Not to mention their opposition to the Lisbon Treaty (and know before you ask I haven't read the full document only a 'summary'- its fookin long) which really was idiotic no matter what you may say, especially the soldiers and abortion bollox.

Tihs isn't meant to be some sort of attack, just thought I'd put that in there before I moved on to Economics.

-SF actively seeks a more welfare than capitalist state which I disagree with

-the say they are a left party economiclly while bemoaning 'surviavl of the fittest capitalism' which is part of Neo-Liberal economic thought I.E. left wing. Thats a big factor I reckon.

Also they contend that they want to lead ireladn towards social justice with help from the UN, and then give out about federalism.

You tell me how that makes sense?

Red-Diesel was a joke man, don't kneecap me

Keep studying my man! Good work.

However Neo-liberalism is not in any way left wing, infact it is the exact opposite. Reagan and Thatcher were neo-liberalists. Neo-liberalism is the precursor to globalisation.

Neo-liberalism is a set of economic policies that have become widespread during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is rarely heard in the United States, you can clearly see the effects of neo-liberalism here as the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer....Around the world, neo-liberalism has been imposed by powerful financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank and the Inter- American Development Bank....the capitalist crisis over the last 25 years, with its shrinking profit rates, inspired the corporate elite to revive economic liberalism. That's what makes it 'neo' or new.

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalDefined.html

So Sinn Féin would raise corporation tax to 30 odd %?? WRONG - 17.5%. Seems that word odd can mean anything between 1 and 30?

this ones a peach "The EU to use its influence to ensure that Irish social spending is increased in order to come in line with European standards"- says the party that sput sovereignty and nationalism

What has sovereignty and Nationalism (a dangerous concept) got to do with social spending?
Sinn Féin do espouse sovereignty but not nationalism, they are not a nationalist party. They are Republican Socialist. And why should the EU be ignored on the basis of that - We are members of this EU, we are working within it to change it. If only the amount given to infrastructure was given to social spending.

Also they contend that they want to lead ireladn towards social justice with help from the UN, and then give out about federalism

I think you're confusing two issues here. Absolutely, a Federal super state is be avoided.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/9585

Seems you've gotten a good bit mixed up on SF's stance on Europe and economics, well the 'odd' economic bit.

Keep studying

yomchi

li@mo wrote: »

Fianna Fail - Broken Promises but yet they saw us through the good times.
If politics was a football team I'd still want more of theses guys than lasds from Fine Gael

Fine Gael - Hold one of the best politicians in the land with Richard Bruton but Enda Kenny just isnt cut out to be Taoiseach. Can they end the recession? In one word - No

Labour - Too many feckin eejits really....except Eamon Gilmore who is a fine leader.

Greens - I admire John Gormely, Trevor Sargeant and Eamon Ryan for their initiative but I think Governemt was a big mistake for them. Too many Fianna Fail policy issues overpowering the Greens.

Sinn Fein- = IRA......and I cant vote for murderers. Maybe Im extreme but Ill die before I ever see these in power.

Yes you are extreme and also wrong. Who did Mary Lou McDonald Murder?

Viva la Revolution!! See you at the wall so :pac::P

Running Bing

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Do poeple still take capitalism seriously after the meltdown we are living through?

They should do considering we are in the throes of a recession, the blackest moments of capitalism, and yet we still have it relatively good.

And seconsly what has the Irish Labour party got to do with socialism??

The first three lines of the "who we are" section of Labours website:

The four principles on which Socialism is based are Freedom, Equality, Community and Democracy.

From its first election programme in 1920 to the present day, these principles have been at the centre of the policies which the Labour Party has offered to the Irish people.

Sorry if Im being superficial but it seems pretty clear cut to me.

Sinn Fein- = IRA......and I cant vote for murderers.

You would have quite a time finding somebody to vote for in the US or UK.

It great to see that you're taking the whole idea of voting in this country with a serious note. Fair play. The Irish electorate are a fickle bunch with the majority of them voting for who they 'like' the most as opposed to any actual policies.
What do you not like about SF's economics? Maybe I could send you some helpful links to read. Let me know what part of the economics you disagree with.

Hi, Jon

I tend to stand well to the right on the economic scale. I believe in a low corporate tax rate and generous treatment for large firms and multinationals. I believe more in equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome. I believe in a smaller government, fiscal restraint, deregulation and a more laissez-faire approach to the economy with a reliance on the free market.

I think its many of those principles that gave Ireland its economic success and it has been the incompetence of the incumbent government that has almost destroyed it.

Im not an extremist in those beliefs, I do think there are times when all bets are off (exceptional cases, like now) when the government simply has to play a larger role and when we have to focus more on the most vulnerable in society at the expense of business and economic growth but I still think a lot of my beliefs on the economy are at odd's with those of SF.

Aside from that I find myself agreeing with a lot of SF's policies and I definitely feel they are one of the more genuine and sincere parties. The economic issue is a deal breaker though. Its the most important issue for me and I just could not vote for a party so at odds with my view's on the issue.

trentf

Simply put they are all short sighted individuals who lack the true capacity to lead. We don't have leaders in this country we have followers who follow what europe, the usa, uk or any other country we think is 'better then us' tells us to do.

I don't pay any attention to the leaders in this country at all. Nothing they say or do affects anything i care about. Look at them ffs brian cowen is a hog, enda kenny is a mannequin and mary harney well no comment. Then we have the charlie chaplin minister of defence. Need i go on? If you picked the most comicial looking and sounding bunch of people off the street in any town or city in ireland, lined them up and choose them to lead you wouldn't get a funnier set of people.

Eloquent speakers they are not. In any other country in the world these people wouldn't even be serving on local councils. Here though, the general population seems to elect people based on how loud they can shout and based on how much bloodlines he has to the local community i.e ' begora tis a grand thing he can swig pints like the locals' ffs. We seriously need to grow up as a nation. Nobody is ever elected in this country based on what they can do for the country. Its all based on this small clanish, infighting way we have of going about things. Have you ever seen a dail debate? Its cringeworthy the way these people conduct themselves in public. Fighting like a bunch of children in a playground. They get paid to spend hour apon hour ranting and raving about nothing. Embarrassing.

Anyone that seems like they have any sort of intelligence, is eloquent or worse threatens their schoolyard bully positions i.e declan gormley is immeadiately lambasted or has a media campaign directed against them to englighten the 'thicko's' and party one line swallowers of the country as to the threat this person poses. And the worst thing is most people fall for it. Nope they are all the same and any outsiders to the polictical game that might wake the people up is definetely not welcome.

Thats why politics in this country doesn't matter and never will.

yomchi

Babybing wrote: »

Hi, Jon

I tend to stand well to the right on the economic scale. I believe in a low corporate tax rate and generous treatment for large firms and multinationals. I believe more in equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome. I believe in a smaller government, fiscal restraint, deregulation and a more laissez-faire approach to the economy with a reliance on the free market.

I think its many of those principles that gave Ireland its economic success and it has been the incompetence of the incumbent government that has almost destroyed it.

Im not an extremist in those beliefs, I do think there are times when all bets are off (exceptional cases, like now) when the government simply has to play a larger role and when we have to focus more on the most vulnerable in society at the expense of business and economic growth but I still think a lot of my beliefs on the economy are at odd's with those of SF.

Aside from that I find myself agreeing with a lot of SF's policies and I definitely feel they are one of the more genuine and sincere parties. The economic issue is a deal breaker though. Its the most important issue for me and I just could not vote for a party so at odds with my view's on the issue.

Hi Babybing,
So you'd be more a neo-liberalist? No probs, at least you know where you stand and why!
SF's economics will inevitabley veer away from NLism and towards the left with socialist policies.

Personally I believe it wasn't the multinationals or the free market that gave Irelands it's recent and short lived wealth - it was the Irish workforce. The reason it was short lived and one sided is because of the multinationals and NLism.

Equality of opportunity is fine, if you mean equality in it's broadist terms. Not everyone on Ireland has an opportunity, and that depends effectively on where you're born and to whom you're born to. Essentially, on what side of the tracks you live.
Opportunity breeds opportunity, larger sections of our population have no chance of even a small opportunity to start with.

Why should someone be left behind because of that? Especially if it's meant to be written into the states constitution.

They should do considering we are in the throes of a recession, the blackest moments of capitalism, and yet we still have it relatively good.

You'll have to define who 'we' actually are! If I went into certain parts of Dublin Central or even South west and said - "well you still have it relatively good" - I'm sure I'd be greeted with confusion on that. There are huge sections of Irish society that have seen nothing of the so called Celtic Tiger (RIP) - why? Simply because a capitalist NList economy dictates that the distribution of wealth will remain within the elite. Therefore the poor get poorer - as the saying goes.

yomchi

trentf wrote: »

Simply put they are all short sighted individuals who lack the true capacity to lead. We don't have leaders in this country we have followers who follow what europe, the usa, uk or any other country we think is 'better then us' tells us to do.

I don't pay any attention to the leaders in this country at all. Nothing they say or do affects anything i care about. Look at them ffs brian cowen is a hog, enda kenny is a mannequin and mary harney well no comment. Then we have the charlie chaplin minister of defence. Need i go on? If you picked the most comicial looking and sounding bunch of people off the street in any town or city in ireland, lined them up and choose them to lead you wouldn't get a funnier set of people.

Eloquent speakers they are not. In any other country in the world these people wouldn't even be serving on local councils. Here though, the general population seems to elect people based on how loud they can shout and based on how much bloodlines he has to the local community i.e ' begora tis a grand thing he can swig pints like the locals' ffs. We seriously need to grow up as a nation. Nobody is ever elected in this country based on what they can do for the country. Its all based on this small clanish, infighting way we have of going about things. Have you ever seen a dail debate? Its cringeworthy the way these people conduct themselves in public. Fighting like a bunch of children in a playground. They get paid to spend hour apon hour ranting and raving about nothing. Embarrassing.

Anyone that seems like they have any sort of intelligence, is eloquent or worse threatens their schoolyard bully positions i.e declan gormley is immeadiately lambasted or has a media campaign directed against them to englighten the 'thicko's' and party one line swallowers of the country as to the threat this person poses. And the worst thing is most people fall for it. Nope they are all the same and any outsiders to the polictical game that might wake the people up is definetely not welcome.

Thats why politics in this country doesn't matter and never will.

You're obviously pizzed off
But remember voter apathy is major factor in these gombeens being elected to govt in the first place. Make an informed decision and go and vote them out, thats your day in the sun chara - starting June 5th this year

Running Bing

Equality of opportunity is fine, if you mean equality in it's broadist terms. Not everyone on Ireland has an opportunity, and that depends effectively on where you're born and to whom you're born to. Essentially, on what side of the tracks you live.
Opportunity breeds opportunity, larger sections of our population have no chance of even a small opportunity to start with.

Why should someone be left behind because of that? Especially if it's meant to be written into the states constitution.

Oh, I do agree there Jon. I think its unrealistic to say everybody in this country will be given equal opportunities tomorrow, or next week, or 50 years from now. Its an ideal that will probably never be achieved but it must always be the ultimate goal imo, what we strive for.

There will always be people who fall on hard times or who are born without the advantages some of us take for granted but I believe those who are willing to work for what they want, to put the extra effort in should always be given priority over those content to live on hand outs or the generosity of others (and I really hope that does not make me sound callous or uncaring because that is not my intention).

You'll have to define who 'we' actually are! If I went into certain parts of Dublin Central or even South west and said - "well you still have it relatively good" - I'm sure I'd be greeted with confusion on that. There are huge sections of Irish society that have seen nothing of the so called Celtic Tiger (RIP) - why? Simply because a capitalist NList economy dictates that the distribution of wealth will remain within the elite. Therefore the poor get poorer - as the saying goes.

Well you talk about people living in disadvantaged area's, those who have not experienced the effects of the Celtic Tiger, those living below the poverty line in appalling conditions but Id wager they dont have it as bad as the poorest and most vulnerable in countries like Laos, Vietnam, India or Cuba.

Im not trivialising the conditions some people in Ireland endure, Ive grown up near some of the most disadvantaged area's in Dublin with people in such situations and Ive seen the poverty first hand but I think when you look at the country as a whole even now, in bad times, the overwhelming majority have food on their table, a roof over their head and shoes on their feet!

yomchi

Babybing wrote: »

Oh, I do agree there Jon. I think its unrealistic to say everybody in this country will be given equal opportunities tomorrow, or next week, or 50 years from now. Its an ideal that will probably never be achieved but it must always be the ultimate goal imo, what we strive for.

There will always be people who fall on hard times or who are born without the advantages some of us take for granted but I believe those who are willing to work for what they want, to put the extra effort in should always be given priority over those content to live on hand outs or the generosity of others (and I really hope that does not make me sound callous or uncaring because that is not my intention).



Well you talk about people living in disadvantaged area's, those who have not experienced the effects of the Celtic Tiger, those living below the poverty line in appalling conditions but Id wager they dont have it as bad as the poorest and most vulnerable in countries like Laos, Vietnam, India or Cuba.

Im not trivialising the conditions some people in Ireland endure, Ive grown up near some of the most disadvantaged area's in Dublin with people in such situations and Ive seen the poverty first hand but I think when you look at the country as a whole even now, in bad times, the overwhelming majority have food on their table, a roof over their head and shoes on their feet!

Great post, but I'm going to disect it a tad if you don't mind

I think its unrealistic to say everybody in this country will be given equal opportunities

It's not about giving opportunity or even hand outs. It's about creating equality among opportunities. Ensuring that every Irish citizen has the chance of an opportunity is enshrined in one of our very famous historical documents.
Thats not to say that everyone will avail of the chance, there are lazy arses in all walks of society - thats what goulags are for lol

I believe those who are willing to work for what they want, to put the extra effort in should always be given priority over those content to live on hand outs

You are assuming that certain parts of society or even certain individuals are 'content' with living on hand outs. This is not the case in the reality, although some have to make do with what they get inevitabley because of the lack of opportunity in the first place.

Well you talk about people living in disadvantaged area's, those who have not experienced the effects of the Celtic Tiger, those living below the poverty line in appalling conditions but Id wager they dont have it as bad as the poorest and most vulnerable in countries like Laos, Vietnam, India or Cuba.

It's not a fair comparison to say that really. You cannot say to a person, "yeh you're poor and not doing too well, but at least you're not in Vietnam" - it's not practical to think that way. You have to deal with the situation that is here and now in this country. Social inequality doesn't deserve a blase approach imo.
By the way Cuba is a fantastic place with a resiliant people, it suffers due to the US imposed trade blockade.

Im not trivialising the conditions some people in Ireland endure, Ive grown up near some of the most disadvantaged area's in Dublin with people in such situations and Ive seen the poverty first hand but I think when you look at the country as a whole even now, in bad times, the overwhelming majority have food on their table, a roof over their head and shoes on their feet

I see your point, however just by circumstance i'm from one of those disadvantaged areas.
When you're in the business of talking about equality of opportunity, the over whelming majority isn't enough.
Put that into context with how the super rich live here in Ireland, most of whom pay shag all in taxes, contribute little and exploite the rest of us. Compare them, a small minority to the over whelming majority.
I've no doubt you're an honest working class person, your heart is in the right place no doubt, but your missing the point slightly with an 'i'm alright jack' mentality - I say that with utmost respect to you.

lmtduffy

Babybing wrote: »

Labour: Do people still take socialism seriously in this day and age? Great at rhetoric but can you imagine them trying to dig us out of the hole we are in?

are you aware of what happen in Finland and Sweden during the last depression of the 30's, their social democratic(left parties) got into power and have had quiet some influence to this very day and coincidentally those in Sweden also enjoy the greatest quality of life you can measure.

Leftist policies are exactly what we need now.

lmtduffy

dizzywizlw wrote: »

Labour-Socialism is falwed in even its basic premise (class systems) and Trade Unions are disgracful and greedy in modern ireland, a workers party?

the labour party in Ireland is not the communist party in 1930's russia,
labour has alot more to it than removing class systems, and by the way the distance between the poor of this country and the rich is still needlessly vast, and is a source of many problems in this country.

The trade unions I feel are in for a big jolt of energy, through out the celtic tiger days many people didnt need their unions, or else only used them to safe guard or increase their wages in order to keep up with the greed of their employers.

as far as im aware very few union members vote for labour despite the fact that their the only party with official links. This is sad as I feel that they were sucked in by the greed of their employers and this limits my sympathy some what.

lmtduffy

li@mo wrote: »

Labour - Too many feckin eejits really....except Eamon Gilmore who is a fine leader.

this attitude is a big part of what's wrong with how people vote in this country.

Care to explain how Labour td's are feckin ejits?

care to comment on their policy and how it isn't adept or appropriate in this climate?

juuge

lmtduffy wrote: »

Care to explain how Labour td's are feckin ejits?
QUOTE] because they want us to vote for them yet will not give an undertaking that they will NOT go into coalition with FF after the next election. They can therefore F**k Off!

RiverWilde

Ah FF - they're a bit like a dog with a bone. They're not quite sure what to do with it; but they'll be damned if anyone else gets it.

Riv

Liam Byrne

After watching FF waste the boom, I was all on for seeing what FG could do.

Unfortunately, from what I read in the Examiner today, Kenny IS indeed a plank.

Firstly, when asked about pensions for serving TDs, he said "it's always been that way", as if that was justification! If politicians were meant to think like that, there'd be no point in having politicians, FFS! No changes to be made = no politicians required. Also, if the U.S. or South Africa thought that way, black people would still be suppressed.

As if that wasn't bad enough, he then went on to ask "What do you want us to do ? Hand it back ?"

Well, Mr Kenny, there's an answer to that and it's the same answer as you would have to my following question:

"What do you want us to do ? Vote for your party ?"

Well ?



So, having read that crap today, the answer to the OP's question / thread title is a firm ...

YES.

thebigcheese22

Babybing wrote: »

Labour: Do people still take socialism seriously in this day and age? Great at rhetoric but can you imagine them trying to dig us out of the hole we are in?

Well tbh I don't think the whole financial meltdown has exactly endeared capitalism to the masses...

And regarding Labour, Eamonn Gilmore is the most popular political leader in Ireland today and i honestly think he can become an Obama-lite - powerful rhetoric, and the ideas and know-how to back it up.

Just look at Labour's policies and see for yourself that they are the only party to dig us out of the hole we are in

thebman

juuge wrote: »

lmtduffy wrote: »

Care to explain how Labour td's are feckin ejits?
QUOTE] because they want us to vote for them yet will not give an undertaking that they will NOT go into coalition with FF after the next election. They can therefore F**k Off!

Nobody should go in to FF. Have you seen what they have done with 10 years of power?

They are just as big muppets as FG. If people can't see that now then I don't know what it will take to convince them to take off the beer goggles.

lmtduffy

juuge wrote: »

lmtduffy wrote: »

Care to explain how Labour td's are feckin ejits?
QUOTE] because they want us to vote for them yet will not give an undertaking that they will NOT go into coalition with FF after the next election. They can therefore F**k Off!

thats because labour unlike last time does not want to limit its options, wouldn't you disagree with the complete no to FF, and the complete yes to FG last time.

I would absolutely prefer if FF are completely eradicated as a party next election,
but we'll have to wait and see.

so who would you vote for now?