Late Late Show

Delta Kilo

hawker wrote: »

If my levy means that it will help people like the chap mentioned find a way out of this mess, then so be it.

Problem is, it isn't. It is going to be used to try and sort out the new bank that we now all own so that FFs property developer "friends" wont be hit as hard. It would be better if the government used our taxes to pay peoples mortgages who are now unemployed until they find a job again. I know we need a functioning bank system but i think it is crazy putting billions into a system without any mention of trying to reform it-> No mention of making the bank change its reserve/liquidity ratio or forcefully removing the CEOs and holding them accountable for what they did so the next generation will NOT follow suit.

Lizzykins

pokerface_me wrote: »

Well since you have the Answer's Mr Breathnach can you help me out. My brother was laid off last month after 13 years hard work to the same building company, married with 3 children, nice house in Tallaght. He took home 750 a week and with household bills a mortgage and 4 mouths to feed it was enough. He has no debts other than the mortgage, she drives 99 fiesta, he drives 96 renault megane, 1 holiday a year and 1 night out a month, but they were happy. Now his world is in turmoil still has 4 mouths to feed given 3000euro payoff company was broke, he put it straight of the mortgage, social welfare gives him 340 a week to cover everything, the guy was in tears on thursday at my table looking for a loan of a 100 euro to get shopping in tesco's. My point is Dunphy is right about Joe Public and till you experience it you know absolutly nothing about it my friend.

I never thought much of Eamon Dunphy up to now but he's the only person i've seen thats been real about whats going on in this country, and till your the one on the dole que wondering where the kids lunches, yes lunches for school the next day are coming from, i don't feel you can have a go at somebody for standing up for them, you never know you might see my brother down the dole office next week and you might know how it feels.

Jail them all every one of them.

Couldn't agree more. I had the same opinion of Dunphy but he's caught the public mood like no one else has.

P. Breathnach

pokerface_me wrote: »

Well since you have the Answer's Mr Breathnach can you help me out. My brother was laid off last month after 13 years hard work to the same building company, married with 3 children, nice house in Tallaght. He took home 750 a week and with household bills a mortgage and 4 mouths to feed it was enough. He has no debts other than the mortgage, she drives 99 fiesta, he drives 96 renault megane, 1 holiday a year and 1 night out a month, but they were happy. Now his world is in turmoil still has 4 mouths to feed given 3000euro payoff company was broke, he put it straight of the mortgage, social welfare gives him 340 a week to cover everything, the guy was in tears on thursday at my table looking for a loan of a 100 euro to get shopping in tesco's. My point is Dunphy is right about Joe Public and till you experience it you know absolutly nothing about it my friend.

I never thought much of Eamon Dunphy up to now but he's the only person i've seen thats been real about whats going on in this country, and till your the one on the dole que wondering where the kids lunches, yes lunches for school the next day are coming from, i don't feel you can have a go at somebody for standing up for them, you never know you might see my brother down the dole office next week and you might know how it feels.

Jail them all every one of them.

Why are you taking this up with me? I didn't cause it.

I am sorry about your brother and all those in trouble. Dunphy's emotive outbursts are unlikely to improve their situation.

pokerface_me

P. Breathnach wrote: »

But I don't think Waters has a clue about what to do; nor has Dunphy; nor has Harris (whose only message seemed to be "Trust Brian Cowen").

I turned it off.

Sorry i thought when i read this post earlier i thought you had the answer, nobody had a clue according to you what they were on about. And as for my brother yes it is terrible but there are 10's of thousands of stories the exact same, its called the real world that some people don't see, and Eamon Dunphy was trying to get this point across and every word he said was the truth, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean its not happening.

juuge

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Dunphy's emotive outbursts are unlikely to improve their situation.

The point is that he has expressed in very strong and emotional terms the feelings of a great majority of Irish citizens and he must be commended for that. Cowen presided over the economy for years as minister of finance and look what happened. Now he's part of the solution, I think not. His look and demeanour is one of a man out of his depth he does not instil confidence and really should be ousted immediately. F**k the likes of Eoin Harris, he is blindly supporting Fianna Fail irrespective of what they do and frankly that's not good enough. How the hell did he become a Senator?

deadhead13

juuge wrote: »

How the hell did he become a Senator?

By blindy supporting bertie irrespective of he did.

RiverWilde

I liked Dunphys stance on the Late Late, he said everything that the rest of the establishment don't like to mention. Namely that the incompetance and greed of the banks/business sector/govt. etc has now come home to roost. As usual it the flac won't hit those who caused the mess. It'll hit those in society who a) never caused the mess b) were never exposed to the 'celtic tiger' in the first place and c) are now expected to pay for the clean up.

Harris' attitude that those responsible shouldn't be chased down and made to accept their culpability for this mess is deplorable.

I suppose in his mind they should be left alone so that they can line their pockets and eat steak dinners while the rest of us struggle to buy chicken burgers and hope to god there's enough money to pay the bills at the end of the week/month etc.

Riv

juuge

deadhead13 wrote: »

By blindly supporting bertie irrespective of he did.

That's exactly right! We really are a banana republic and the laughing stock of the world. Thanks bertie and your FF pals, enjoy your outrageous pension we're all paying for it.:D

Burtchaell

This country has been a ticking time bomb ever since Bertie stepped down from power... Its the dogs of bankers, politicians, developers and buddy appointed senators that banjaxed this country not to mention the leader!

Always remember: "If you lie with dogs you wake up with fleas"

Tom

P. Breathnach

Look folks, I'm not unfeeling and I don't think I'm stupid. Where people have done wrong, I believe they should be dealt with as wrongdoers. But the problems we now have are not entirely due to a handful of people being dishonest or incompetent; they are also partly due to ordinary people making honest mistakes (some not-so-ordinary people making honest mistakes, too).

If we identify and punish wrongdoers, people might feel some satisfaction. But that won't fix our problems.

I stopped watching the three sages on The Late Late Show because they didn't get anywhere near discussing what needs to be done. I did hear something (I think from John Waters, but I'm not sure) about giving some sort of credit or gift to people who are in debt; it was nowhere near being a thought-through idea.

AlekSmart

If we identify and punish wrongdoers, people might feel some satisfaction. But that won't fix our problems.

This particular line is one which is beginning to emerge with some regularity of late.
I suppose it does fit in with the old notion of Ireland as a caring,sharing and deeply religious society where forgiveness always trumped retribution.

Its worth remembering that in a society which has taken the vast bulk of its higher Civil Servants and Judiciary from a handful of "good" (usually run by Jesuits) schools this ethos of forgiveness is unsurprising.

My belief is that some serious attempts at,not alone,seeking justice,but also very public retribution is now a pre-requisite to securing the Countrys future.

Let us be clear,this desire of mine is NOT based upon "feeling some satisfaction" but is based upon the hard reality that if Ireland is to once again attain any credibility as a stand-alone functioning democracy then it will have to satisfy those real,tangible and powerful political and financial interests that it CAN protect the integrity of its own basic democratic systems.

The current "ah sure,what good would that do" campaign in relation to strident investigation of these top-layer financial despots must be nipped in the bud NOW.

The really serious Financial High Rollers who can be proven to have manipulated or directed their financial positions to achieve personal aggrandisment should be punished to the fullest possible extent.

However,as of today,all we have are some VERY specific and punitive measures being swiftly enacted on the ordinary street-level working person,whether public or private sector and the funds thereby raised going to prop up decidedly private looking banking operations.......Whether Brian Cowen and his troupe realize it or not this is the stuff of which revolutions are made ! :eek:

CtrlSource

Burtchaell wrote: »

You have to admire the way in which Eamonn Dunphy handled Eoghan Harris on the late late show. Must say Eoghan Harris really is the most accomplished political prostitute in the history of the Irish state. He started as a communist, then freewheeled in the workers party, did standup comedian for the blueshirts and finished up appointed by Bertie to the Senate.

I rest my case!

... not to mention his stint 'advising' the UUP! What an arse

P. Breathnach

AlekSmart wrote: »

This particular line is one which is beginning to emerge with some regularity of late...

If your sense of justice is in line with the way you selectively quoted from my post and misrepresented my message, I don't want any of it.

juuge

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If we identify and punish wrongdoers, people might feel some satisfaction. But that won't fix our problems.

You're right it will not!, but it still needs to be done to show that there is some justice left in our society.

mirror mirror

MrMiyagi wrote: »

The media are building up the negativity and yet dunphy only takes a 10% pay cut on €300k

its a lot more than some other overpaid presenters are doing

Darragh29

pokerface_me wrote: »

Well since you have the Answer's Mr Breathnach can you help me out. My brother was laid off last month after 13 years hard work to the same building company, married with 3 children, nice house in Tallaght. He took home 750 a week and with household bills a mortgage and 4 mouths to feed it was enough. He has no debts other than the mortgage, she drives 99 fiesta, he drives 96 renault megane, 1 holiday a year and 1 night out a month, but they were happy. Now his world is in turmoil still has 4 mouths to feed given 3000euro payoff company was broke, he put it straight of the mortgage, social welfare gives him 340 a week to cover everything, the guy was in tears on thursday at my table looking for a loan of a 100 euro to get shopping in tesco's. My point is Dunphy is right about Joe Public and till you experience it you know absolutly nothing about it my friend.

I never thought much of Eamon Dunphy up to now but he's the only person i've seen thats been real about whats going on in this country, and till your the one on the dole que wondering where the kids lunches, yes lunches for school the next day are coming from, i don't feel you can have a go at somebody for standing up for them, you never know you might see my brother down the dole office next week and you might know how it feels.

Jail them all every one of them.

+1, Dunphy hit the nail on the head. There is this myth out there that that prostitute Harris was trying to pedal the other night, "sure we were all at it, we all had a piece of the Celtic Tiger, we were all overdoing it". My boll*x we were all at it, most of us were just getting by...

mirror mirror

Darragh29 wrote: »

+1, Dunphy hit the nail on the head. There is this myth out there that that prostitute Harris was trying to pedal the other night, "sure we were all at it, we all had a piece of the Celtic Tiger, we were all overdoing it". My boll*x we were all at it, most of us were just getting by...

WELL SAID[ WRITTEN]:mad::mad:

The Raven.

Burtchaell wrote: »

Must say Eoghan Harris really is the most accomplished political prostitute in the history of the Irish state.

Well said!

Dunphy’s melodrama may have been somewhat forced, but he was definitely on the right track.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If we identify and punish wrongdoers, people might feel some satisfaction. But that won't fix our problems.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The current "ah sure,what good would that do" campaign in relation to strident investigation of these top-layer financial despots must be nipped in the bud NOW.

The really serious Financial High Rollers who can be proven to have manipulated or directed their financial positions to achieve personal aggrandisment should be punished to the fullest possible extent.

Punishing wrongdoers, in accordance with the law, should not be for the sake of providing ‘satisfaction’ for society, but rather to protect society from these wrongdoers and ensuring that they do not repeat the offence.

I agree with AlekSmart. These ‘’top-layer financial despots’ should undergo the full measure of the law. They are at the core of a problem that is so serious that they need to be flushed out and permanently removed from their posts, so that it never happens again. This would send a clear message to like-minded parasites in the future. It would also serve to recoup some semblance of credibility.

Of course it won’t solve the current financial crisis, but this ‘do-gooder’ attitude of forgiveness and brushing it under the carpet is gravely misplaced in this instance.

AlekSmart

If your sense of justice is in line with the way you selectively quoted from my post and misrepresented my message, I don't want any of it.

P Breathnach,I don`t see how quoting your post misrepresents you in any way,if you believe it does then I assure you that is unintentional.

Accepting MY sense of justice should not be necessary for you at all,but accepting that the Concept of justice can and should be visited upon those FEW who have deliberately used their high flying financial positions to set up self aggrandising mechanisms which have now collapsed leaving EVERYBODY else to foot THEIR bill.

I believe that Èire does not have an alternative but to pursue this èlite and seek recompense or retribuition.
Not to do so will send a very clear message to the rest of the world that we actively condone and protect this type of behaviour.

We as a country cannot afford to pour whats left of our resouces into a tainted pool.

OhNoYouDidn't

deadhead13 wrote: »

Dunphy the millionaire crying over the plight of the common man - f**k off yah spoofer.

not any more, he lost his arse on Anglo.....

I really do not understand how Harris still gets wheeled out as being some sort of expert. The guy has not called one major event right in the last 30 years. This is the man who opposed the GFA on the basis it would start a civil war.

ferdi

Burtchaell wrote: »

This country has been a ticking time bomb ever since Bertie stepped down from power... Its the dogs of bankers, politicians, developers and buddy appointed senators that banjaxed this country not to mention the leader!

Always remember: "If you lie with dogs you wake up with fleas"

Tom

It was ticking long before bertie left office.

As for the banks banjaxing the couintry -i dont completely agree.

for the last 10 years or so developers have been demanding massive loans from our banks which, following the downtune in property, has left us in part with this mess. so it was the banks irresponsible lending which caused it - right?

bring your mind back a few years...had the banks after a while said "hold on a second..." and clamped down on lending a few years into the cletic tiger, what would have happened? they would have been attacked from all sides for stifling and chocking the life out of our new booming economy - the tiger would have started to whimper and the banks would have been forced to revert by the sheer weight of the public outcry (no plasma tvs? no decking? no 4x4??) and if not THEN DEVELOPERS BUILDERS AND WHOEVER WOULD HAVE JUST GONE TO OTHER SOURCES LIKE FOREIGN/EUROPEAN BANKS AND OBTAINED THE CAPITAL ANYWAY.

in short, placing the blame squarerly at the feet of the banks is ultiamtely people's way of shifting responsibility for this situation from themselves. Every Developer, every politician, every captain of industry, everyone who bought multiple buy-to-rent properties, everyone who received stupidly inflated salaries and thought it was normal and their 'entitlement, every business owner who rubbed their hands with glee and jacked up the cost of living, thusly destroyed our international competitiveness- everyone who milked a blatanly unstable economic situation and is now crying because they gambled and lost.

this angry mob justice dunphy advocates agains the banks is the worst type of medieval populist drivel that will do nothing to get us out of this mess and serves only to inflate his ego and sell more papers and airtime.

that said, yes the banks colluded with the rest of society and contributed to the present state of the economy and senior officials should lose their jobs.

P. Breathnach

AlekSmart wrote: »

P Breathnach,I don`t see how quoting your post misrepresents you in any way,if you believe it does then I assure you that is unintentional.

You omitted the bit where I said "Where people have done wrong, I believe they should be dealt with as wrongdoers." and quoted only "If we identify and punish wrongdoers, people might feel some satisfaction. But that won't fix our problems." Then you responded to that by saying

This particular line is one which is beginning to emerge with some regularity of late.
I suppose it does fit in with the old notion of Ireland as a caring,sharing and deeply religious society where forgiveness always trumped retribution.

as if I had advocated that people not be punished.

Unintentional or not, it is a fundamental distortion of the position I took. And it is symptomatic of a dangerous tendency that I perceive, where people focus on fixing blame and exacting retribution as if that alone were all that is needed. Yes, it is needed, but it is very far from from being all that is needed.

Mr.Micro

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

not any more, he lost his arse on Anglo.....

I really do not understand how Harris still gets wheeled out as being some sort of expert. The guy has not called one major event right in the last 30 years. This is the man who opposed the GFA on the basis it would start a civil war.

If An Bord Gais ever run short of gas there is one untapped source in the form of the gas bag Harris.:D

niceirishfella

SOH32 wrote: »

But am I alone in thinking that the media are over playing the negatiivity, hyping up the bust as much as they hyped up the 'boom'. very little constructive commentary.

Well, the media themselves (newspapers) are loosing their shirts in the demise of the property and recruitment sections. It's not in their interests to over hype the bust - cos it might just bust them themselves.
In fairness, they are just reporting it as it is - this country is BANKRUPT!:(

niceirishfella

ferdi wrote: »

It was ticking long before bertie left office.

As for the banks banjaxing the couintry -i dont completely agree.

for the last 10 years or so developers have been demanding massive loans from our banks which, following the downtune in property, has left us in part with this mess. so it was the banks irresponsible lending which caused it - right?

none of this argument stands up as the banks were and are complicit with the developers, estate agents,land speculators,builders, all to SCREW the common man into buying a 400k shoebox in commuterville.
Their actions with others made the whole bubble, and it was going to blow eventually.

irish_bob

ferdi wrote: »

It was ticking long before bertie left office.

As for the banks banjaxing the couintry -i dont completely agree.

for the last 10 years or so developers have been demanding massive loans from our banks which, following the downtune in property, has left us in part with this mess. so it was the banks irresponsible lending which caused it - right?

bring your mind back a few years...had the banks after a while said "hold on a second..." and clamped down on lending a few years into the cletic tiger, what would have happened? they would have been attacked from all sides for stifling and chocking the life out of our new booming economy - the tiger would have started to whimper and the banks would have been forced to revert by the sheer weight of the public outcry (no plasma tvs? no decking? no 4x4??) and if not THEN DEVELOPERS BUILDERS AND WHOEVER WOULD HAVE JUST GONE TO OTHER SOURCES LIKE FOREIGN/EUROPEAN BANKS AND OBTAINED THE CAPITAL ANYWAY.

in short, placing the blame squarerly at the feet of the banks is ultiamtely people's way of shifting responsibility for this situation from themselves. Every Developer, every politician, every captain of industry, everyone who bought multiple buy-to-rent properties, everyone who received stupidly inflated salaries and thought it was normal and their 'entitlement, every business owner who rubbed their hands with glee and jacked up the cost of living, thusly destroyed our international competitiveness- everyone who milked a blatanly unstable economic situation and is now crying because they gambled and lost.

this angry mob justice dunphy advocates agains the banks is the worst type of medieval populist drivel that will do nothing to get us out of this mess and serves only to inflate his ego and sell more papers and airtime.

that said, yes the banks colluded with the rest of society and contributed to the present state of the economy and senior officials should lose their jobs.

well said , its a cliche at this stage to pin all the blame on the bankers , the bankers didnt go out and force people at gunpoint to take out hefty mortgages , perhaps we should ditch our silly mindset of having to own our own house and do like other europeans so , rent for 40 years if nesscessery

ferdi

niceirishfella wrote: »

none of this argument stands up as the banks were and are complicit with the developers, estate agents,land speculators,builders

did you even read my post?

ferdi wrote: »

that said, yes the banks colluded with the rest of society and contributed to the present state of the economy and senior officials should lose their jobs.

if the banks had decided to cease large loans to developers, land speculators, builders - what do you think would have happened? the hysterical greed feeding-frenzy created a climate in which these loans were seen, not only as acceptable, but as entirely necessary for the economy and for the purchasing of plasma tvs.

gurramok

irish_bob wrote: »

well said , its a cliche at this stage to pin all the blame on the bankers , the bankers didnt go out and force people at gunpoint to take out hefty mortgages , perhaps we should ditch our silly mindset of having to own our own house and do like other europeans so , rent for 40 years if nesscessery

Yes, the bankers colluded with borrowers if thats the correct word to use. Both sides tried their best to give out maximum mortgages a borrower could afford, it smacks of lack of regulation.

Rent for 40 years? We can't have that, FF will go bankrupt through lack of donations from the construction sector!

Regarding the Late Late, Dunphy with all his dramatics spoke of whats going on in the real world unlike the Bertie appointed lunatic and the other fella who writes in the Mail On Sunday.

Still alot of denial out there. Alot of pain to come to shift mindsets to help lift the head out of the sand.

dresden8

ferdi wrote: »

and if not THEN DEVELOPERS BUILDERS AND WHOEVER WOULD HAVE JUST GONE TO OTHER SOURCES LIKE FOREIGN/EUROPEAN BANKS AND OBTAINED THE CAPITAL ANYWAY.

Good. Then those foreign banks would need bailing out with other people's tax money, not ours

ferdi wrote: »

Every Developer, every politician, every captain of industry, everyone who bought multiple buy-to-rent properties, everyone who received stupidly inflated salaries and thought it was normal and their 'entitlement, every business owner who rubbed their hands with glee and jacked up the cost of living, thusly destroyed our international competitiveness- everyone who milked a blatanly unstable economic situation and is now crying because they gambled and lost.

There are millions of people excluded from that group and they are now severely p1ssed off that they have to pick up the tab for the above losers. (Sorry, I forgot, we're going to cushion them from their losses.)

ferdi wrote: »

that said, yes the banks colluded with the rest of society and contributed to the present state of the economy and senior officials should lose their jobs.

I can tell you I colluded with fnck all and will be right royally screwed over this. You might be surprised by how much extra property I don't own or how many millions I don't have squirelled away.

Cowen's WE all must take a 10-12% cut in our lifestyle won't mean much to him and his mates on their several pensions and huge Ministerial salary but a lot of people were only keeping their heads above water at the best of times. 10-12% will mean a lot to those.

MrMiyagi

Hello,

If the government want to save €300 million a week all they have to do is cut the dole from €198 to €98.

The dole is way to high in Ireland no wonder 300,000 people are willing to sign on for €200 and rent allowance. €100 a week is more than enough money to survive espescially went your rent is paid.