Victorian Bushfires ***may make upsetting reading***

Crumble Froo

Sammag wrote: »

After reading the above posts the tears are streaming down my face.

this.^

watna

Checked in to this thread after watching the news earlier. The footage is just crazy and I can't get over fast it as taken hold and how many people it has affected.

I sincerely hope that nobod deliberately started any fires. That would really be an act of evil or extreme stupidity. God help them when they are caught. I read what Rudd had to say about them earlier on and there really will be baying for blood.

Zambia

WWman you and those crews are worth every once of praise heaped on you.

If there is anything that you think a few extra hands can do for anyone near you please let us know.

Diamondmaker

seachto7 wrote: »

Australia. One of the few countries in the world where nature and its ways can make humans as insignificant as a fly on the wall.....

Its amazing how one area can be flooded yet in drough meanwhile another area is burning away.

I have never experinced rain as I have expercinced since I came here, yet I am being asked to conserve water.

Nature is playing some cruel tricks here to scales we can never imagine in tiny Ireland.

dcr22B

Have to say it's been gut wrenching reading all the posts and looking at the news. My brother is working outdoors in Perth Airport preparing cars for rental and I'm just praying that he's wearing plenty of sun protection as he would have a fairly light complexion.

Fair play to all those carrying out rescue operations and all associated services.

Finally, my thoughts are with all those who have suffered loss during this tragic time.

Mother nature really has a strange way of operating!

The Sweeper

7.30pm, WWMan is out on a cfa truck doing blacking out work - a simple term for making already burned areas safer. It's messy, grubby work, cleaning up basically.

I'm waiting for the technical debriefing at the hospital where we identify areas where we could work more efficiently or be more useful. We're just a small country hospital, but we're the only hospital in the locality of the bush fires - we're first aid and second aid, if you will, with more serious burns victims coming into us for stabilisation before being sent onwards to the hospitals in the city.

If anyone wants the local news updates, ABC Australia are best online:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/

In the midst of all this, you see the goodness in people.

One chap who lost his house announced philosophically on Sunday "You know, there were a lot of problems with that house, and now I don't have to fix them. We had rats in the roof, for instance. We don't have rats in the roof any more!"

If you can still make jokes when you don't even own a pair of shoes any more - that's when the person you really are shines through.

seachto7

just read some more accounts of it this morning. shocking stuff. I can't imagine what it must be like to come through something like this.
I'm trying to think of where I'm from in county limk to just go up in flames over a weekend and literally disappear....How would you get over something like this??
Just read one account where a guy put his 2 kids in the car, went back to the house to get something, came back out and the car had gone up in flames..
shocking stuff..:(:(

gandalf

Majd and WWM fair play to you both and thanks for the updates was wondering how you are doing.

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

One chap who lost his house announced philosophically on Sunday "You know, there were a lot of problems with that house, and now I don't have to fix them. We had rats in the roof, for instance. We don't have rats in the roof any more!"

That man put a big smile on my face this morning. He has his perspectives on life right

Thanks for the updates MajD.

The Sweeper

I'm not a supporter of the fire tourism thing, where people drive through the bushfire struck areas for a rubberneck. However, I started having difficulty getting my head in order today - adrenalin ran out, shock set in. I asked Eamo to drive me through some of the areas he'd been through, just so I could see for myself.

Again, this is rural land, and we didn't go into the sectioned off areas or interfere with people's grief or privacy, but I took some pictures of what the place looks like to give you some small idea of how it looks generally, outside the serious warzone areas.

It's very surreal - blue skies today, clear, around 21 degrees, pleasant. The burnt out areas don't look like much - I've tried to give a before and after idea in the following images.

This image gives you a good idea of what Australia in summer looks like - tinderbox dry, these golden fields are green in winter. Usually the landscape is golden and brown in summer. You can see the fires smoulder in the distance.

This next one, over the hill the evidence of burning starts to appear on the distant hills, black with burnoff.

Note how the highway is still golden on the left, but burned on the right - roads like this act as a natural fire break, assuming the wind is blowing the right way.

These used to be paddocks.

And this used to be a plantation forest.

Someone will have to clear these up - property owners or the clean up crew. Forests are dangerous during clean-up - the trees can topple or drop branches on you with little provocation.

Here and there, things are still smouldering enough to make driving around dangerous.

This is what I mean when I talk about radiant heat - the fire is erratic, it left the grass untouched and burned the supports.

I'm not certain, but this could be an example of controlled back-burning. The CFA ignite a stretch of grassland and control the burning and then put it out - it stops fires spreading across the road, because there's nothing left to catch fire close to the road.

To finish up, here's a bizarre picture of the full moon that the CFA boys are working under tonight - eerie, yet fitting.

Trojan

Hey Gemma, Eamo, delighted to hear you guys are safe & helping other folks out. Can only imagine (but imagine quite accurately thanks to your descriptions & pics) what it's like. And keep that couch safe, I'll be needing it one of these years!

Mingey

I can't believe people think it is arson...could it be?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/09/australia-bushfires

Toll is at 135 now. RIP

The Sweeper

Last confirmed total according to ABC Oz is 166 people dead.

It's just after 3am here - I've been asleep, Eamo's out on a CFA truck - he was blacking out and then got a call that there was a fire at a place called Reedy Creek, so he was part of a five-vehicle strike team. They went and sat atop a ridge, got stuck in and waited for the fire to come to them - goal was to prevent it crossing the ridge.

They seem to have succeeded - the CFA website shows that fire as now 'safe'. Last I spoke to Eamo was about 10.30pm when he rang me, and the CFA firemen were laughing and joking about how it was bloody cold, but still good because they had home-made sausage rolls.

Firemen are mad.

Eamo texted me back a few mins ago saying all was good and he'd be home in 90 minutes. He's got dispensation from work to do these hours, because for those who aren't in Oz, the CFA, which stands for Country Fire Association, is made up of mainly volunteers. Lots and lots of these guys and girls have day jobs. They train in their own time, and are only allowed out on a tanker after completing quite rigorous training, which given the circumstances is a good thing.

Still takes a while for your sleep pattern to get anywhere close to 'back to normal'!

silverski

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Last confirmed total according to ABC Oz is 166 people dead.

It's just after 3am here - I've been asleep, Eamo's out on a CFA truck - he was blacking out and then got a call that there was a fire at a place called Reedy Creek, so he was part of a five-vehicle strike team. They went and sat atop a ridge, got stuck in and waited for the fire to come to them - goal was to prevent it crossing the ridge.

They seem to have succeeded - the CFA website shows that fire as now 'safe'. Last I spoke to Eamo was about 10.30pm when he rang me, and the CFA firemen were laughing and joking about how it was bloody cold, but still good because they had home-made sausage rolls.

Firemen are mad.

Eamo texted me back a few mins ago saying all was good and he'd be home in 90 minutes. He's got dispensation from work to do these hours, because for those who aren't in Oz, the CFA, which stands for Country Fire Association, is made up of mainly volunteers. Lots and lots of these guys and girls have day jobs. They train in their own time, and are only allowed out on a tanker after completing quite rigorous training, which given the circumstances is a good thing.

Still takes a while for your sleep pattern to get anywhere close to 'back to normal'!

Good to hear that you are doing ok.

We are heading out to Perth on the 21st of Feb and then moving down to Dunsborough,WA where I hear that there are more bushfires. Have not told my wife that story yet.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this terrible tragedy.

Regards and keep safe
Silverski

dSTAR

I don't think there are many people in Australia as whole who haven't been touched by the sheer destructiveness and loss of life from these bushfires. I shudder to think about how I would cope if my own children who were camping a week before in a fire affected area were caught up in such a disaster.

An ex girlfriend who lives in Bendigo wrote this to me this morning ...

...it was a horror of a weekend! One in which I wouldn't want repeated. Connor was with his dad, who as you know lives in Wallan! I was terrified that the fire was going to head towards Wallan from Kilmore. Instead it made its way to Whittlesea and Kinglake..and all because of a wind change! I'm still concerned about my house in Wallan because it's located next to a cattle farm, and also has a forest behind it. I think even though Bendigo was hit with fires, we got out of it lightly compared to other towns.

Its stories like these amongst many others that really drives it all home.

Overheal

Id be skeptical of arson but anythings possible. They always suspected the Florida fire storm in 98' was arson caused but frankly, the months of drought, it wouldnt have taken anything to get a fire started. For all we know today it was a lighting bolt on tinder or a tossed cigarette on the highway. To think that someone drove around and a bunch of areas off is just crazy to me.

That was a hell of a summer. Whole swaths of 95 were closed for weeks, and Hurricane Season came late that year. 10 years later the damage isnt noticeable, save for new forestry. I was quite young though and couldnt cite off what the actual aftermath was.

brendansmith

Apparently they were witnessed lighting them or something.

A lad in works daughter lives in one of the bush fire areas and had to drive through the police barrier and the fire to get out of the danger area.
They saw 6 bodies in a burning car as the drove.

Its scary to thing of being in the situation where the fire takes your oxygen and the smoke takes your vision. Very frightening stuff.

The Sweeper

To be perfectly frank, a tossed cigarette on the highway is arson in this country. We have fire awareness, total fire ban days, big placards at the entrances and exits of each town with fire risk indicators on them - saying a tossed cigarette is an accident is like it's an accident when a drunk driver hits a pedestrian.

Police are treating every town in which a fire started as a crime scene.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if it's arson, and indeed when police are announcing that some of the fires are arson and they have suspects - well.

The Australian term is 'fire bugs' - mentally ill people who set things alight because they believe they're helping 'test' the emergency services. The Saunders Road fire that killed people in Wandong and then moved on down through Heathcote Junction and so on - just as we're getting that under control, a grass fire starts a few streets away. Why do they think it's arson? Because the wind is all wrong for it to be embers and I can only assume they found other evidence at the scene.

A local Kilmore firebug has been operating, uncaught, for years - his method is to tape unlit matches around a cigarette. Light cigarette, start to smoke it, then flick it into a tinder-dry paddock and drive on. When the cigarette hits the matches, the flare is enough to ignite the grass.

You just need one successful fire for its embers to ignite hundreds of other fires - it doesn't have to be an arsonist starting 100 fires.

hussey

MJD & WWMan after reading your stories I was extremely moved, on the verge of tears.

My company are matching a dollar for dollar donation to the red cross, I plan to dig deep.

After this weekend, I can really see the true Australia term 'mateship' people go beyond the call of duty just to help others, it is truly amazing.

Like so many I had no real idea about bush fires until this weekend, I came back to Aus after a long holiday on sunday morning to read 70 people lost their lives, I honestly thought this was over the week rather than just one weekend.
After watching and reading some horror stories I am truly moved.

http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/services_emergencyservices_victorian-bushfires-appeal-2009.htm

amacachi

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

To be perfectly frank, a tossed cigarette on the highway is arson in this country. We have fire awareness, total fire ban days, big placards at the entrances and exits of each town with fire risk indicators on them - saying a tossed cigarette is an accident is like it's an accident when a drunk driver hits a pedestrian.

Police are treating every town in which a fire started as a crime scene.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if it's arson, and indeed when police are announcing that some of the fires are arson and they have suspects - well.

The Australian term is 'fire bugs' - mentally ill people who set things alight because they believe they're helping 'test' the emergency services. The Saunders Road fire that killed people in Wandong and then moved on down through Heathcote Junction and so on - just as we're getting that under control, a grass fire starts a few streets away. Why do they think it's arson? Because the wind is all wrong for it to be embers and I can only assume they found other evidence at the scene.

A local Kilmore firebug has been operating, uncaught, for years - his method is to tape unlit matches around a cigarette. Light cigarette, start to smoke it, then flick it into a tinder-dry paddock and drive on. When the cigarette hits the matches, the flare is enough to ignite the grass.

You just need one successful fire for its embers to ignite hundreds of other fires - it doesn't have to be an arsonist starting 100 fires.

Dead right man.

People might be surprised how many pyros there are in Ireland. Just because there aren't huge levels of damage doesn't mean they aren't around. Over there it just takes one nut or idiot to cause dozens of deaths.

My thoughts are with everyone over there, not just those who have lost friends and possessions, but those working their balls off to minimise the damage and loss.

dSTAR

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

The Australian term is 'fire bugs' - mentally ill people who set things alight because they believe they're helping 'test' the emergency services.

Or according to a leading forensic psychologist and criminologist...

...their motivation is for excitement or a revenge against something that has happened to them, or some person which they take out by lighting a fire.

Amachi wrote:

Dead right man.

People might be surprised how many pyros there are in Ireland.

The same expert goes on to say that ...

The vast majority are not pyromaniacs, only about 1 or 2 per cent are. They are people who have no remorse whatsoever for what they have done.

Source

Btw Amachi MAJD is a girl.

One Cold Hand

Some photos here:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/bushfires_in_victoria_australi.html

WhiteWashMan

last night we had planned to do some blacking out around kilmore east, but with fires still not under control around clombinane, our tanker was called to help with asset protection and to help hold a line against the small community of Reedy creek.

We were on the tanker at about 5ish and while it was still light we set about putting out some tree trunk fires in kilmore east. the tree was about 30ft high, hollow at the top, and was on fire. to get to it, we had to chainsaw through undergrowth and branches, put out some random smaller fires, and have a go at the tree. a standard 38mm hose wouldnt do the trick, and for the first time ever, we took out the 64mm hose. it takes 2 of us to properly use the 64mm. one to hold the hose, and one to hold the person. it is long hard tedious work.

we returned to the staging area for water and desiel and are called to assist clonbinane CFA and the DSE (department of sustainability and the environment - kind of full time rural fire brigade). its a trek that takes us through the areas we were firefighting on saturday. i see that the while we had to pull out on saturday, we did enough to save the homes.

we hit the area where we were supposed to go at about 9ish. it was dark at this stage and the moon was as minesajackdaniels has shown it. the whole area to the south of the road sloped downwards, and it was all on fire. there was perhaps 20 yards between the road and the fire. we got into position. on saturday night, i was on the back of the truck fighting a running fire. today, we were going to try and stop the fire from cresting the hill and spotting over the other side of the road. that area was full of forest and scrub and houses.

the wind wouldnt settle down and it was a constant battle to figoure out which way it was blowing. at times it blew from the north and the whole fire would just die down and it would like like ou could pick your way between embers. then the wind would turn and suddenly the flames were 30 feet high and crowning in the tree tops and we would have a rain of embers dropping on us. embers are not those nice sparks you get from your bbq. they are large pieces of red hot bark, leaves, small branches. they can float for kilometers in front of a raging bush fire and cause spot fires. we had 2 slip on (a ute with a water tank and hose for quick reaction fire fighting) in the field behind us to mop up any spot fires that appeared, and we waited for the fire to come to us.

our job was to make sure that the fire burned right up to the road onthe ground, and that any front row trees didnt catch fire. in other words, we were going to try and let it burn itself out, but if it got into the trees and cause embers to cross the road, we were finished. people kep coming out to us with hot coffe, biscuits, soups, suasage rolls. and each of them had their own stories of neighbours and friends, of near misses, and sad losses, and then were protecting our areas. its funny how important a tree trunk can become, how a wooden fence post, or a telecoms relay becomes your entire world. for 2 hours i went back and forth. alternatively putting out fire, and willing it to burn down the grass so i wouldnt have to worry about it again. the constant crashing of branches, and the deisel engine, and calling between crew is the background noise to the sound of the fire. the constantly changing winds make it hard to see and at times you realise that this isnt your best look. your eyes are streaming, and your vision is almost blinded from a mixture of sweat, condensation on your goggles, and tears. the smoke gets everywhere. its in your eyes, in your ears, in your mouth and your nose. the face mask helps, but most of the time you just have a face full of smoke induced tears and smoke induced snot.

when at last we have kept the fire at bay, there are areas that havent burnt as quickly. when it is safe, we back burn perhaps 10-20 feet along a front of about 300m. backburning is controlled burning to create an area where there is no fuel for fires to catch. when that is done, it is time to black out.

we walk 50 feet into the embers with a hose, and we put out everything in our path. the crack of tree limbs breaking off and falling remind us to look up continually.
it is hard work. it is back breaking work. carring a hose full of water up to 50 feet, back and forth, back and forth, down the fire line. the people who's homes we have been protecting come back, with more food, and i am starving. its 3am.

on the way back to the station, we have to stop off near where we put out the tree stump earlier. there is, was, a bridge used by locals that has collapsed, and at 3:30 we put tape up to make sure they are aware it is gone, and then its back to the station.
we clean down the fire truck. we remove the numerous bottles of water and staminade drink that have been drunk and reset all of the hoses and the nozzles.
those hoses that have been used for black out duty need to be washed, and dried. not a great job when its 4am, and its freezing, and you are soaked.

today, i am tired, and i am sore. my eyes feel like i have rubbed handfulls of sand directly into them and i have a constant taste of ash right at the back of my throat. and i cant seem to shake the smell of woodfire.

i have had so many people phone me, mail me, facebook me, text me all with words of support, of concern, and of praise. i dont consider myself special or even heroic. i am sure that most members of an organisation such as this have moment of daydream where there are awards, and shulder carrying and the saving of seventeen cockerspaniel dogs under one arm whilst towing a broken down bus of old age pensioners with your teeth, but in reality, i think its the feeling of belonging.i do it because i feel like i belong to something. the emotion and the experience bonds you to people, a family. a community.
one girl i worked with told me that i was a hero and that it was people like me that australia was built on. which is a good thing really. because i like living in a country built on average people. i like living in a country where everyone gets a chance. i like living in a country where one person, no matter how small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, can make a difference when you work with so many other people.

i need to wash my fire gear. i need to clean my boots and replenish my mentos chew sweet supply.

WhiteWashMan

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Some photos here:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/bushfires_in_victoria_australi.html

some good pictures there.

looking at some of those, you look at the guys on the truck and think 'faaaack!', and then i think 'hey, i do that', and then i think 'faaaack!' again!


that first picture is amazing.

and you can see a picture of someone doing some blacking out in picture 5, while picture 12 shows back burning.

WhiteWashMan

oh, and i hope to get some photos soon. of the guys had a camera and took some really good shots last night.

dSTAR

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

one girl i worked with told me that i was a hero and that it was people like me that australia was built on. which is a good thing really. because i like living in a country built on average people. i like living in a country where everyone gets a chance. i like living in a country where one person, no matter how small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, can make a difference when you work with so many other people.

*Lump in throat*

All I can say is keep up the good work mate. You are doing an epic job.

Mahatma coat

WWM wrote:

i have had so many people phone me, mail me, facebook me, text me all with words of support, of concern, and of praise. i dont consider myself special or even heroic. i am sure that most members of an organisation such as this have moment of daydream where there are awards, and shulder carrying and the saving of seventeen cockerspaniel dogs under one arm whilst towing a broken down bus of old age pensioners with your teeth, but in reality, i think its the feeling of belonging.i do it because i feel like i belong to something. the emotion and the experience bonds you to people, a family. a community.
one girl i worked with told me that i was a hero and that it was people like me that australia was built on. which is a good thing really. because i like living in a country built on average people. i like living in a country where everyone gets a chance. i like living in a country where one person, no matter how small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, can make a difference when you work with so many other people.

Snap dSTAR

WWM I think you just summed up everything I love about this country


on a more somber note the death toll is now 231

Crumble Froo

****ing hell WWM. fair ****s. i have no idea what to say beyond that, but fair ****s.

Crumble Froo

lads... clayton, where is it with relation to the fires?

we're not sure, but it looks from our crap estimations on google maps and the news maps, that it was close enough, if not hit

one of the guys off another message board im on lives there, and we're trying to figure out if he's alright... not seen him online in a few days.

The Sweeper

Clayton in VIC is fine. If you mean Clayton Vic, it's SE of St Kilda by about seven or eight miles, and you can be damn sure if the bush fires were that close to Melbourne this'd be a whole other thread.

Crumble Froo

ah, sweet. the lads were referencing google maps, and reckoned it didnt look too far away, but i was almost sure he lived closer to melbourne city... thanks to my fella's darling son, we're out of broadband, so google maps wasnt exactly my friend, but thanks, majd, tis good to know, i can report back now