FC Barcelona Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Dolph Starbeam

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Never liked him personally. Played well in Italy but meh couldn't play for Barca and the deal we got for him was terrible:(

Sorry but what? Ibra gets way too much stick for this, are you trying to tell me that in 42 games he played for Barca that 22 goals and 10 assists is not good? 16 league goals in his first season is a very good return imo.

This you also have to remember in a season where Messi could not stop scoring, sorry but i love Barca but they have made a mistake in getting rid of a player of Ibra's ability especially considering all the money they just wasted.

Warper

MOG7 wrote: »

Sorry but what? Ibra gets way too much stick for this, are you trying to tell me that in 42 games he played for Barca that 22 goals and 10 assists is not good? 16 league goals in his first season is a very good return imo.

This you also have to remember in a season where Messi could not stop scoring, sorry but i love Barca but they have made a mistake in getting rid of a player of Ibra's ability especially considering all the money they just wasted.

Pep obviously had some sort of falling out with him and didnt speak for 6 months which left Ibra's position untenable. I agree though, I was hoping they kept him for another 12 months as he might have improved. One year in a new league is not enough these days but as Pep has shown he is pretty ruthless when you fall out with him.

flahavaj

MOG7 wrote: »

Sorry but what? Ibra gets way too much stick for this, are you trying to tell me that in 42 games he played for Barca that 22 goals and 10 assists is not good? 16 league goals in his first season is a very good return imo.

This you also have to remember in a season where Messi could not stop scoring, sorry but i love Barca but they have made a mistake in getting rid of a player of Ibra's ability especially considering all the money they just wasted.

In all fairness with the kind of supply Barca get and the goals they rack up every season, any player worth his salt should be scoring 20 plus goals playing predominantly as their central striker. To put Ibra's stats in context, Pedro scored more than him last season from the wider areas in his first full season in the team, and Messi scored twice as many. I have no doubt Villa will easily outdo him over this season as well.

As someone said theres no doubt Ibra has unbelieveable talent - but there still is that question mark about him in games - He could be incredible, or he could be totally ineffective. He was very very disappointing over the second half of last season.

Dolph Starbeam

flahavaj wrote: »

In all fairness with the kind of supply Barca get and the goals they rack up every season, any player worth his salt should be scoring 20 plus goals playing predominantly as their central striker. To put Ibra's stats in context, Pedro scored more than him last season from the wider areas in his first full season in the team, and Messi scored twice as many. I have no doubt Villa will easily outdo him over this season as well.

As someone said theres no doubt Ibra has unbelieveable talent - but there still is that question mark about him in games - He could be incredible, or he could be totally ineffective. He was very very disappointing over the second half of last season.

Ye i'd have to agree, he did have a hard second half of the season, i remember a couple goals Messi scored when Ibra was going through a dry patch and he couldn't even celebrate the goals. Anyways best of luck to him at AC and i'm sure Villa will more than fill the space left behind.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

In all fairness with the kind of supply Barca get and the goals they rack up every season, any player worth his salt should be scoring 20 plus goals playing predominantly as their central striker. To put Ibra's stats in context, Pedro scored more than him last season from the wider areas in his first full season in the team, and Messi scored twice as many. I have no doubt Villa will easily outdo him over this season as well.

As someone said theres no doubt Ibra has unbelieveable talent - but there still is that question mark about him in games - He could be incredible, or he could be totally ineffective. He was very very disappointing over the second half of last season.

You could say the exact same about Berbatov - his goals scoring at United has been incredibly poor. 29 goals in 90 apperances. That from a chap who scored 115 goals in 220 apperances in the five seasons prior to his move is even worse especially when you consider he is now in a far better attacking side with far better service.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

You could say the exact same about Berbatov - his goals scoring at United has been incredibly poor. 29 goals in 90 apperances. That from a chap who scored 115 goals in 220 apperances in the five seasons prior to his move is even worse especially when you consider he is now in a far better attacking side with far better service.

Yes you could - absolutely. But I'm not sure why I'd want to talk about Berbatov on the Barcelona thread, in a conversation about Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

Yes you could - absolutely. But I'm not sure why I'd want to talk about Berbatov on the Barcelona thread, in a conversation about Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

The point I was making is that all clubs suffer from buying big money players that dont workout from time to time. Some are worse than others. It is an inevitable part of the game.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

The point I was making is that all clubs suffer from buying big money players that dont workout from time to time. Some are worse than others. It is an inevitable part of the game.

I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. Everyone makes bad signing, obviously, thats not an earth shattering revelation in fairness. I was simply trying to put his stats in context in response to the chap who said they were an indication that he was a signing that had worked out well.

A criticism of a particular player is not a criticism of Barca as a club or as a whole.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. Everyone makes bad signing, obviously. I was simply trying to put his stats in context in response to the chap who said they were an indication that he was a signing that had worked out well.

A criticism of a particular player is not a criticism of Barca as a club or as a whole.

His stats from last season would tell you that he was not a flop though.

41 games
21 goals
10 assists

they are not they statistics of a player who would be considered a flop.

Pedro from last season has 23 goals but he appeared 11 times more than Ibra and didnt suffer a dip in form for half the season. Ibra compares favourably against him to be honest.

Ush1

flahavaj wrote: »

In all fairness with the kind of supply Barca get and the goals they rack up every season, any player worth his salt should be scoring 20 plus goals playing predominantly as their central striker. To put Ibra's stats in context, Pedro scored more than him last season from the wider areas in his first full season in the team, and Messi scored twice as many. I have no doubt Villa will easily outdo him over this season as well.

As someone said theres no doubt Ibra has unbelieveable talent - but there still is that question mark about him in games - He could be incredible, or he could be totally ineffective. He was very very disappointing over the second half of last season.

It doesn't put it into context as both Pedro and Messi played more games than him. Lets not forget the crucial goals aswell, Real Madrid, Arsenal, etc..

Ibra was playing in a new league, with a new team in a new position. The only thing that I can see was a failure was Pep selling him after one season.

Frisbee

redout wrote: »

Pedro from last season has 23 goals but he appeared 11 times more than Ibra and didnt suffer a dip in form for half the season. Ibra compares favourably against him to be honest.

So if Ibra hadn't have played shíte for half the season he would have had a better season?

Think that goes without saying tbh.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

His stats from last season would tell you that he was not a flop though.

41 games
21 goals
10 assists

they are not they statistics of a player who would be considered a flop.

Pedro from last season has 23 goals but he appeared 11 times more than Ibra and didnt suffer a dip in form for half the season. Ibra compares favourably against him to be honest.

Surely his dip in form which lasted the entire second half (and the crucial stages) of the season is the main reason he wasn't a success? It can't be used as a way to compare him favourably to other players!

I think my earlier assessment of his season was more than fair.

"Flop" is probably too harsh an assessment - but you're always gonna have people who are prone to hyperbole in such matters. He certainly did not live up to expectations IMO.

flahavaj

Ush1 wrote: »

It doesn't put it into context as both Pedro and Messi played more games than him. Lets not forget the crucial goals aswell, Real Madrid, Arsenal, etc..

Ibra was playing in a new league, with a new team in a new position. The only thing that I can see was a failure was Pep selling him after one season.

Part of the reason for that was Ibra being dropped in favour of Bojan towards the season's end though, no? Also factor in Pedro being a young kid in his first full season, playing wider on the pitch - his stats are much more impressive IMO.

gimmick

Ush1 wrote: »

The only thing that I can see was a failure was Pep selling him after one season.

Well if Ibra was acting the prick Pep was succesful in jettisoning him. And given the way he has behaved since leaving I cannot see that attitude as being a loss to the dressing room.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

Surely his dip in form which lasted the entire second half (and the crucial stages) of the season is the main reason he wasn't a success? It can't be used as a way to compare him favourably to other players!

I think my earlier assessment of his season was more than fair.

"Flop" is probably too harsh an assessment - but you're always gonna have people who are prone to hyperbole in such matters. He certainly did not live up to expectations IMO.

Henry scored 19 goals and 26 goals from the same position as Pedro in the two seasons prior and done so in less games than Pedro. Messi scores an awful lot from the other side also. Barca forwards always score a lot of goals regardless of whether they are the front man centre or up front the wings.

Of course his dip in form is the main reason people criticise him! I never said that it wasnt. If he had of carried on his form from the first half of the season he would have finished with a far higher goal count. Also you dont know the full story to be honest - Bojan didnt get in the team because Ibra was dropped - he got in the team because Ibra was injured toward the end of last season and missed several games - Bojan in that time came in and done well so kept his place. Nothing strange in that considering he was playing well and scoring. No injury to Ibra and Bojan wouldnt have gotten the chance.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

Henry scored 19 goals and 26 goals from the same position as Pedro in the two seasons prior and done so in less games than Pedro. Messi scores an awful lot from the other side also. Barca forwards always score a lot of goals regardless of whether they are the front man centre or up front the wings.

Of course his dip in form is the main reason people criticise him! I never said that it wasnt. If he had of carried on his form from the first half of the season he would have finished with a far higher goal count. Also you dont know the full story to be honest - Bojan didnt get in the team because Ibra was dropped - he got in the team because Ibra was injured toward the end of last season and missed several games - Bojan in that time came in and done well so kept his place. Nothing strange in that considering he was playing well and scoring. No injury to Ibra and Bojan wouldnt have gotten the chance.

Yes, doing what Ibra had failed to do for quite some time beforehand.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

Yes, doing what Ibra had failed to do for quite some time beforehand.

Try and get your facts right next time.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

Try and get your facts right next time.

Easy mistake to make tbf - the upshot being the same - Bojan took his place and played better. The injury to Ibra was a blessing in disguise for all concerned really and his not getting back in the team amounts to almost the same as being dropped in essence.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

Easy mistake to make tbf - the upshot being the same - Bojan took his place and played better. The injury to Ibra was a blessing in disguise for all concerned really.

Easy to make for someone who didnt know what they were talking about and hoping others didnt aswell. If you didnt know then you shouldnt have said it. As regards Bojan - he done good at the end but in general his senior career at Barca is far from a success and not someone you would have banked on especially for a player who came through la masia as the highest scoring youth player of all-time.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

Easy to make for someone who didnt know what they were talking about and hoping others didnt aswell. If you didnt know then you shouldnt have said it. As regards Bojan - he done good at the end but in general his senior career at Barca is far from a success and not someone you would have banked on especially for a player who came through la masia as the highest scoring youth player of all-time.

I edited my post afterwards as I had a moment of inspiration as is my wont. As I said, getting injured and not winning your place back from a player that in your words has been far from a success at Barca is tantamount to being dropped.

But you will of course focus on a minor factual error rather than the bigger debate. Classic redout.

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

I edited my post afterwards as I had a moment of inspiration as is my wont. As I said, getting injured and not winning your place back from a player that in your words has been far from a success at Barca is tantamount to being dropped.

But you will of course focus on a minor factual error rather than the bigger debate. Classic redout.

You are some man for editing posts and changing your comments around.

You've done it about half a dozen times in this thread over the past few days if you care to check.

You saying that Ibra being injured basically amounts to the same as being dropped is complete tripe. Had he never of been injured then Bojan would never have featured so it is not the same at all.

flahavaj

redout wrote: »

You are some man for editing posts and changing your comments around.

You've done it about half a dozen times in this thread over the past few days if you care to check.

You saying that Ibra being injured basically amounts to the same as being dropped is complete tripe. Had he never of been injured then Bojan would never have featured so it is not the same at all.

No, but his not getting back in the team instead of Bojan (a player you yourself seem to think is a disappointment yourself) when he regained fitness isn't far off being the same.

A player playing at the top if his game would have gotten back in no problem - its not as if Bojan was playing incredibly well or anything, merely better than Ibra. Which goes back to the original point I was making before you needlessly clouded the issue in classic fashion - any strikers worth their salt could score 1 in 2 like Ibra did last season, playing for Barca, in their style with the service they provide. I'd say Bojan could have in 42 games anyway.;)

redout

flahavaj wrote: »

No, but his not getting back in the team instead of Bojan (a player you yourself seem to think is a disappointment yourself) when he regained fitness isn't far off being the same.

A player playing at the top if his game would have gotten back in no problem - its not as if Bojan was playing incredibly well or anything, merely better than Ibra. Which goes back to the original point I was making before you needlessly clouded the issue in classic fashion - any strikers worth their salt could score 1 in 2 like Ibra did last season, playing for Barca, in their style with the service they provide. I'd say Bojan could have in 42 games anyway.;)

Fair enough - you are entitled to your opinions.

I dont happen to share them but sure the soccer forum is full of differing ones.

Ush1

flahavaj wrote: »

Part of the reason for that was Ibra being dropped in favour of Bojan towards the season's end though, no? Also factor in Pedro being a young kid in his first full season, playing wider on the pitch - his stats are much more impressive IMO.

So how is Ibra gonna score if he's dropped for Bojan?

Pedro is impressive no doubt but why not have both?

Ush1

gimmick wrote: »

Well if Ibra was acting the prick Pep was succesful in jettisoning him. And given the way he has behaved since leaving I cannot see that attitude as being a loss to the dressing room.

Well if Ibra has an axe to grind why not? Pep is not infallible. Who knows what happened, isn't the first time with Pep though.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

So how is Ibra gonna score if he's dropped for Bojan?

Pedro is impressive no doubt but why not have both?

Because one of them does not get on with the coach.

And really, who in their right mind would choose Ibrahimovic's side over Guardiola?

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

Because one of them does not get on with the coach.

And really, who in their right mind would choose Ibrahimovic's side over Guardiola?

Or the coach doesn't get on with him?

Maybe Ibra was in the right and the manger was ignoring him?

redout

Ush1 wrote: »

Or the coach doesn't get on with him?

Maybe Ibra was in the right and the manger was ignoring him?

It was reported that Ibra told Pep that he should treat him like Messi because he is as good a player as him and that left Pep stunned. It was reported in the Catalan press on sunday I think it was. This happened back last season and could possibly be source of the whole thing though that was never confirmed.

Warper

flahavaj wrote: »

I edited my post afterwards as I had a moment of inspiration as is my wont. As I said, getting injured and not winning your place back from a player that in your words has been far from a success at Barca is tantamount to being dropped.

But you will of course focus on a minor factual error rather than the bigger debate. Classic redout.

Form asides, the fact that he and Pep weren't even speaking at that stage obviously had a major bearing on dropping him.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

Or the coach doesn't get on with him?

Maybe Ibra was in the right and the manger was ignoring him?

Maybe he was, but how does that matter?

Should they get rid of Pep and keep Ibrahimovic? No, they shouldn't.

There are very few situations where Barca would be justified in pissing off their coach in order to keep Ibrahimovic.

He has not proven himself to be a player you need to keep at all costs.

If it was Messi, then sure. But not Ibrahimovic, who was more of a luxury than an essential cog in the team.

Ush1

redout wrote: »

It was reported that Ibra told Pep that he should treat him like Messi because he is as good a player as him and that left Pep stunned. It was reported in the Catalan press on sunday I think it was. This happened back last season and could possibly be source of the whole thing though that was never confirmed.

If that's the truth why Pep sold him it doesn't say a whole lot for his man management skills. Big players(literally in this case) have got big personalities. If he really thought Ibra was a good addition to the squad and got rid of him or didn't talk to him after that it's ridiculous.

Fair enough if he said "I f*cked your wife" or something, but it's fairly typicaly fare from fiery competitive players.

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

Maybe he was, but how does that matter?

Should they get rid of Pep and keep Ibrahimovic? No, they shouldn't.

There are very few situations where Barca would be justified in pissing off their coach in order to keep Ibrahimovic.

He has not proven himself to be a player you need to keep at all costs.

If it was Messi, then sure. But not Ibrahimovic, who was more of a luxury than an essential cog in the team.

It's still no slight on Ibra being a failure though. Pep got rid of Eto'o and a vast amount of cash to recruit this guy, you'd think he'd do everything possible in his power to make it work.

Warper

Ush1 wrote: »

If that's the truth why Pep sold him it doesn't say a whole lot for his man management skills. Big players(literally in this case) have got big personalities. If he really thought Ibra was a good addition to the squad and got rid of him or didn't talk to him after that it's ridiculous.

Fair enough if he said "I f*cked your wife" or something, but it's fairly typicaly fare from fiery competitive players.

Wha? Any player that undermines the manager must go or you asking for upheavel in the dressing room. A load of top managers have let good players go for the sake of the team. That is what good managers do. Pep is the boss, if he wants to let someone go, then let him go. No other manager can match his record since he took over 2 years ago, what has he won, just the 8 trophies was it? All this from a rookie manager and you question his man management system?

Ush1

Warper wrote: »

Wha? Any player that undermines the manager must go or you asking for upheavel in the dressing room. A load of top managers have let good players go for the sake of the team. That is what good managers do. Pep is the boss, if he wants to let someone go, then let him go. No other manager can match his record since he took over 2 years ago, what has he won, just the 8 trophies was it? All this from a rookie manager and you question his man management system?

If any player was sold for one thing they said like that, nevermind a 70 million euro rated player, I would certainly question everything about their motives for getting rid of the player.

redout

Ush1 wrote: »

If that's the truth why Pep sold him it doesn't say a whole lot for his man management skills. Big players(literally in this case) have got big personalities. If he really thought Ibra was a good addition to the squad and got rid of him or didn't talk to him after that it's ridiculous.

Fair enough if he said "I f*cked your wife" or something, but it's fairly typicaly fare from fiery competitive players.

Hold on - Pep didnt even want Ibra.

Laporta bought Ibra and it was his idea - Pep wanted rid of Eto'o and accepted him.

Its not as though he was ever his target - Pep wanted Villa last season as his number 1 but Barca nor Real could match Valencias asking price.

If you tell the manager what to do then you deserve the door in my opinion. Cruyff commented the same and also said that Ibra cant say stuff about the manager and what his agent says is also his responsibility.

Ush1

redout wrote: »

Hold on - Pep didnt even want Ibra.

Laporta bought Ibra and it was his idea - Pep wanted rid of Eto'o and accepted him.

Its not as though he was ever his target - Pep wanted Villa last season as his number 1 but Barca nor Real could match Valencias asking price.

If you tell the manager what to do then you deserve the door in my opinion. Cruyff commented the same and also said that Ibra cant say stuff about the manager and what his agent says is also his responsibility.

If he didn't want Ibra then it was doomed from the start regardless of how Ibra got on.

redout

Ush1 wrote: »

If he didn't want Ibra then it was doomed from the start regardless of how Ibra got on.

Well in Spain its common practice for Presidents and sometimes sporting directors to choose players. Look at Pellegrini last season - he sure as hell didnt choose that lot. They have to make do with what they are given which aint particularly ideal.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

It's still no slight on Ibra being a failure though. Pep got rid of Eto'o and a vast amount of cash to recruit this guy, you'd think he'd do everything possible in his power to make it work.

I'm not saying he was a failure though. Although he certainly wasn't a roaring success, and is not more suited to Barca than Eto'o was.

I'm saying that in almost any clash between a manager and a player, a manager should win out. If clubs are second guessing their manager, they need a new manager.

If Ibra and Pep didn't get on, that's just tough titties for Ibra. Deal with it or fúck off basically. It's not like he was a vital player for them - he has no right to be treated as a special case.

Ush1

redout wrote: »

Well in Spain its common practice for Presidents and sometimes sporting directors to choose players. Look at Pellegrini last season - he sure as hell didnt choose that lot. They have to make do with what they are given which aint particularly ideal.

lol, And if Mr.Portugal acted up who would be shown the door exactly?:rolleyes:

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

I'm not saying he was a failure though. Although he certainly wasn't a roaring success, and is not more suited to Barca than Eto'o was.

I'm saying that in almost any clash between a manager and a player, a manager should win out. If clubs are second guessing their manager, they need a new manager.

If Ibra and Pep didn't get on, that's just tough titties for Ibra. Deal with it or fúck off basically. It's not like he was a vital player for them - he has no right to be treated as a special case.

I don't agree with undermining the manager either, but this type of stuff happens all the time and you wouldn't here about it in the press. The manager can take him aside and have a word and they can deal with them if they believe they are beneficial to the squad. I'm not saying bend over backwards or sack the manager.

Managers aren't infallible and don't always know what's best.

redout

Ush1 wrote: »

lol, And if Mr.Portugal acted up who would be shown the door exactly?:rolleyes:

I dont understand what you are saying.

Coaches in Spain dont choose players.

They aint all doomed - sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

gimmick

flahavaj wrote: »

its not as if Bojan was playing incredibly well or anything, merely better than Ibra.

Bojan in fact was playing incredibly well at the tail end of last season. He got something like 7 in 10, and had a hand in a few assists as well. His form meant it was almost impossible to drop him. People were surpised to see him start in the penultimate game Vs Sevilla, a game which could have cost Barca the title. He went out and scored 2 vital goals.

Ush1

redout wrote: »

I dont understand what you are saying.

Coaches in Spain dont choose players.

They aint all doomed - sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

I'm saying for people to call Ibra a flop or why he was sold, they should certainly take a look at Pep with the same scrutiny.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

I don't agree with undermining the manager either, but this type of stuff happens all the time and you wouldn't here about it in the press. The manager can take him aside and have a word and they can deal with them if they believe they are beneficial to the squad.

That's what I'm saying. Pep would probably have had a word and dealt with it quietly if it was Messi, Xavi or Iniesta.

He doesn't need that kind of hassle from someone who is disposable and replaceable.

I'm not saying bend over backwards or sack the manager.

Managers aren't infallible and don't always know what's best.

Strawman argument. No one claiming he is infallible.

But you choose a manager, and trust him to get on with it. All you can ask is that they get the majority of decisions right. No manager has ever got things entirely right.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

lol, And if Mr.Portugal acted up who would be shown the door exactly?:rolleyes:

Pelligrini, obviously.

That's why Madrid have been such a circus the last few years, in contrast to Barca.

Barca are doing the right thing by letting the coach call the shots, regardless of the perceived worth of the player.

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. Pep would probably have had a word and dealt with it quietly if it was Messi, Xavi or Iniesta.

He doesn't need that kind of hassle from someone who is disposable and replaceable.




Strawman argument. No one claiming he is infallible.

But you choose a manager, and trust him to get on with it. All you can ask is that they get the majority of decisions right. No manager has ever got things entirely right.

I'm not asking about every decision, I'm asking about THIS one.

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

Pelligrini, obviously.

That's why Madrid have been such a circus the last few years, in contrast to Barca.

Barca are doing the right thing by letting the coach call the shots, regardless of the perceived worth of the player.

But he isn't calling the shots, he didn't want Ibra.

redout

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm saying for people to call Ibra a flop or why he was sold, they should certainly take a look at Pep with the same scrutiny.

I dont agree with anybody who has called Ibra a flop.

I wasnt exactly sad by his departure after the comments he made public about Guardiola and him not speaking for 6 months.

Once he made them it was obvious he was looking to get out and as Cruyff added adios.

They are not comments you make to the media as a player - if there is a problem you talk to the coach and attempt to resolve it.

He obviously didnt bother his hole - Pep still picked him for games so its not as though he rejected him.

Pep is god in Barca after leading the team to the most succesful season in football history and rightly so.

It doesnt make him the Pope but he has earned his stripes and deserves respect.

JPA

Pep is god but he's not the pope...

redout

JPA wrote: »

Pep is god but he's not the pope...

Yeah smart arse - god in Barca.

Not the Pope - you know the guy who is infallible the world over not just in some small dot on a map