FC Barcelona Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

JPA

redout wrote: »

Yeah smart arse - god in Barca.

Not the Pope - you know the guy who is infallible the world over not just in some small dot on a map

Should have said a god then.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm not asking about every decision, I'm asking about THIS one.

So what's so wrong about letting go of someone who has been replaced by a superior player (Ibrahimovic-Villa)?

It's the right call - Ibrahimovic is clearly bringing too much baggage to be worthwhile.

If it was Messi that wasn't getting along with the coach, then fair enough, Pep might swallow his ego and allow it to go unchallenged.

There is no such need to do that with a player who has little impact on how successful you are. Barca have proven to be just as good, if not better, without Ibrahimovic.

His impact isn't great enough to warrant special treatment.

Pep is making the right call in that case.

But he isn't calling the shots, he didn't want Ibra.

Then you have no need to scrutinise him over this deal if he's not calling the shots.

redout

JPA wrote: »

Should have said a god then.

Grammar Police - Yes Sir

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

So what's so wrong about letting go of someone who has been replaced by a superior player (Ibrahimovic-Villa)?

It's the right call - Ibrahimovic is clearly bringing too much baggage to be worthwhile.

If it was Messi that wasn't getting along with the coach, then fair enough, Pep might swallow his ego and allow it to go unchallenged.

There is no such need to do that with a player who has little impact on how successful you are. Barca have proven to be just as good, if not better, without Ibrahimovic.

His impact isn't great enough to warrant special treatment.

Pep is making the right call in that case.

Strawman. You can have both. Don't agree he's bringing too much baggage. Comes across as someone genuinely confused by why Pep didn't want him and most people are confused by this also. No massive public bust up.

Disingenious also, how do you mean they have proven to be just as good with Ibra? Ibra scored lots of crucial, season defining goals.

#15 wrote: »

Then you have no need to scrutinise him over this deal if he's not calling the shots.

So you think Pep didn't have his hand in Ibra leaving?

I obviously meant he is only "calling the shots" to a limited extent and both Barca and Real Madrid don't leave the signing of players to the coach.

Ush1

redout wrote: »

I dont agree with anybody who has called Ibra a flop.

I wasnt exactly sad by his departure after the comments he made public about Guardiola and him not speaking for 6 months.

Once he made them it was obvious he was looking to get out and as Cruyff added adios.

They are not comments you make to the media as a player - if there is a problem you talk to the coach and attempt to resolve it.

He obviously didnt bother his hole - Pep still picked him for games so its not as though he rejected him.

Pep is god in Barca after leading the team to the most succesful season in football history and rightly so.

It doesnt make him the Pope but he has earned his stripes and deserves respect.

He made those comments after he was gone basically, no point in talking about it then!

How do you know he didn't attempt to reconcile things, he said everytime he walked into a room Guardiola left.

He still picked him for games and sold him then after?

I'm fully aware of all Peps work but this has nothing to do it at all. To me, there is no outstanding reason he sold Ibra after 1 year. None.

redout

Ush1 wrote: »

He made those comments after he was gone basically, no point in talking about it then!

How do you know he didn't attempt to reconcile things, he said everytime he walked into a room Guardiola left.

He still picked him for games and sold him then after?

I'm fully aware of all Peps work but this has nothing to do it at all. To me, there is no outstanding reason he sold Ibra after 1 year. None.

I am sure if Ibra had attempted to reconcile things his big mouth would have let the media know - his silence on the matter indicates he did not.

Walking out of a room is not even relevant (Dont even know how true that is) - if they were to reconcile a meeting would have been requested and arranged through the players agent I would imagine.

That does not appear to have happened - indicating he wasnt bothered himself.

Yes he was still picked - Pep obviously had faith in his footballing abilities regardless of their personal dispute - seems like a good decision on Peps behalf - not letting personal feelings pick his team.

Ibra's agent was talking crap and disrespecting Pep long before he was ever sold.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

Strawman.

Petty retort tbh.

That wasn't my original point, it was just a response to your statement that you were questioning THIS decision.

I said it's not a bad decision because he is upgrading the team. Villa IN Ibra OUT.

My first point was that a manager is usually right to get rid of a player he doesn't get along with. Unless that player is bringing something extra that cannot be replaced.

Don't agree he's bringing too much baggage. Comes across as someone genuinely confused by why Pep didn't want him and most people are confused by this also. No massive public bust up.

Why didn't Pep want him then?

1) Not good enough for the team
2) Not a good fit for the team
3) They didn't get on
4) Costing too much financially
5) Some other reason??? Please elaborate

Which of the above? Genuine question.

Disingenious also, how do you mean they have proven to be just as good with Ibra? Ibra scored lots of crucial, season defining goals.

I presume you mean without?

So you think Pep didn't have his hand in Ibra leaving?

Yeah I do.

Think he was right too. Ibrahimovic is a poor fit with team. Villa will be much more suitable.

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

Petty retort tbh.

That wasn't my original point, it was just a response to your statement that you were questioning THIS decision.

I said it's not a bad decision because he is upgrading the team. Villa IN Ibra OUT.

My first point was that a manager is usually right to get rid of a player he doesn't get along with. Unless that player is bringing something extra that cannot be replaced.

So you think pander to the players you think are better. Interesting, would seem extremely conducive to dressing room unrest. Would fear Eto'o and Ibra may be the first of many in that case.

#15 wrote: »

Why didn't Pep want him then?

1) Not good enough for the team
2) Not a good fit for the team
3) They didn't get on
4) Costing too much financially
5) Some other reason??? Please elaborate

Which of the above? Genuine question.

Erm, did you not read the part I said about no outstanding reason? Other than some vague stuff about saying treat him like Messi.

#15 wrote: »

I presume you mean without?

I actually meant "as good AS with...". Resorting to grammar picking, and I'm petty?

Ush1

redout wrote: »

I am sure if Ibra had attempted to reconcile things his big mouth would have let the media know - his silence on the matter indicates he did not.

Walking out of a room is not even relevant (Dont even know how true that is) - if they were to reconcile a meeting would have been requested and arranged through the players agent I would imagine.

That does not appear to have happened - indicating he wasnt bothered himself.

Yes he was still picked - Pep obviously had faith in his footballing abilities regardless of their personal dispute - seems like a good decision on Peps behalf - not letting personal feelings pick his team.

Ibra's agent was talking crap and disrespecting Pep long before he was ever sold.

So was Toures yet he said after he didn't want to sell him.

It's all just guessing if either of them requested anything. I stand by no outstanding reason. If he wasn't a "flop", I can't see why he should be sold and it seems he doesn't understand it either.

#15

Ush1 wrote: »

So you think pander to the players you think are better. Interesting, would seem extremely conducive to dressing room unrest. Would fear Eto'o and Ibra may be the first of many in that case.

No, not pander to players that are merely better.

Cut some slack to players that are genuine difference makers.

The way Ferguson dealt with Cantona for example - the rest of the players accepted it. Didn't cause any dressing room unrest.

Ibrahimovic was not in the top 5 most important players to Barca IMO. You cannot pander to players who are that low in the pecking order - that certainly would cause dressing room unrest.

Erm, did you not read the part I said about no outstanding reason?

No.

Are you saying there were a multitude of minor reasons for the sale (and therefore no outstanding reason), or there was actually no reason at all to sell him?

I actually meant "as good AS with...". Resorting to grammar picking, and I'm petty?

No I'm not grammar picking at all, you've misread the tone of my post.

I thought you misquoted me.

15 wrote:

There is no such need to do that with a player who has little impact on how successful you are. Barca have proven to be just as good, if not better, without Ibrahimovic.

how do you mean they have proven to be just as good with Ibra?

^^^^

Ush1

#15 wrote: »

No, not pander to players that are merely better.

Cut some slack to players that are genuine difference makers.

The way Ferguson dealt with Cantona for example - the rest of the players accepted it. Didn't cause any dressing room unrest.

Ibrahimovic was not in the top 5 most important players to Barca IMO. You cannot pander to players who are that low in the pecking order - that certainly would cause dressing room unrest.

I would argue he did make a significant difference in important games.

#15 wrote: »

No.

Are you saying there were a multitude of minor reasons for the sale (and therefore no outstanding reason), or there was actually no reason at all to sell him?

There was obviously some falling out with the manager the details of which doesn't seem to be known. Ibra is the one who has been quoted and doesn't know the source of the falling out himself.

I would also say these types of things happen all the time with coaches and players and unless it's very untenable circumstances, usually the player wouldn't be sold based off something so, on the face of it, trivial.

#15 wrote: »

No I'm not grammar picking at all, you've misread the tone of my post.

I thought you misquoted me.


^^^^

Right well okay, sorta relates to the point above about him making the difference in some games anyway.

gimmick

I would also say these types of things happen all the time with coaches and players and unless it's very untenable circumstances, usually the player wouldn't be sold based off something so, on the face of it, trivial.

So a player can act the cúnt, try and tell the manager what to do, but as long as he does not do it very loudly it should be overlooked? I do not see telling Pep that he should be treated like Messi is trivial. That is but one instance we know. Its not like he was frozen out at the time. He still had plenty game time. Too much as it turns out given his form.

Seems to me Pep has a zero tolerance policy - you or your agent act up and you are out on your ass.

Ush1

gimmick wrote: »

So a player can act the cúnt, try and tell the manager what to do, but as long as he does not do it very loudly it should be overlooked? I do not see telling Pep that he should be treated like Messi is trivial. That is but one instance we know. Its not like he was frozen out at the time. He still had plenty game time. Too much as it turns out given his form.

Seems to me Pep has a zero tolerance policy - you or your agent act up and you are out on your ass.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.:rolleyes:

I see it as trivial and we don't even know if it's true, it's not like Pep has come out and said it?

I think he does have a zero tolerance policy and to me it highlights the transfer of Eto'o even more, who Mourinho had tracking back like a madman.

I also think Pep might have heart over head times, which for me was picking Busquets ahead of Toure. Great coach regardless but not without his flaws.

Warper

Ush1 wrote: »

I would argue he did make a significant difference in important games.




There was obviously some falling out with the manager the details of which doesn't seem to be known. Ibra is the one who has been quoted and doesn't know the source of the falling out himself.

I would also say these types of things happen all the time with coaches and players and unless it's very untenable circumstances, usually the player wouldn't be sold based off something so, on the face of it, trivial."

Lol, name me a manager (and rookie at that) that has won 8 trophies in his first 2 seasons as coach - none. Let here you are questioning the most successful manager of all time in his first 2 years as coach of arguably the biggest club in the world but ya he has no man management skills. Pep doesnt need to follow "other" coaches as he has proven he can do a pretty good job on his own. If you fall out with him, tough, he is a Barca man through and through and he wont take crap of anyone and he doesnt need to. The players love him as do the fans and have every trust in his ability. Obv something happened and it is a credit to the man for not going public. Shows what a classy guy he is for keeping his mouth shut and keeping everything in-house when other lesser coaches would have mouthed off to the press. That is just one of the great traits Pep has - discretion.

gimmick

^ Great post

Ush1

Warper wrote: »

Ush1 wrote: »

I would argue he did make a significant difference in important games.

Ush1 wrote: »

There was obviously some falling out with the manager the details of which doesn't seem to be known. Ibra is the one who has been quoted and doesn't know the source of the falling out himself.

I would also say these types of things happen all the time with coaches and players and unless it's very untenable circumstances, usually the player wouldn't be sold based off something so, on the face of it, trivial."

Lol, name me a manager (and rookie at that) that has won 8 trophies in his first 2 seasons as coach - none. Let here you are questioning the most successful manager of all time in his first 2 years as coach of arguably the biggest club in the world but ya he has no man management skills. Pep doesnt need to follow "other" coaches as he has proven he can do a pretty good job on his own. If you fall out with him, tough, he is a Barca man through and through and he wont take crap of anyone and he doesnt need to. The players love him as do the fans and have every trust in his ability. Obv something happened and it is a credit to the man for not going public. Shows what a classy guy he is for keeping his mouth shut and keeping everything in-house when other lesser coaches would have mouthed off to the press. That is just one of the great traits Pep has - discretion.

What are you on about? Where did I say he's not a good coach and that he hasn't won trophies?

Just because he didn't go public doesn't mean he was right to get rid of him.

gimmick

But the fact that Ibra did have swipes makes Pep correct IMO. He left Pep in a situation where if he overlooked the situation, his credibility for discipline was down the pot. Had he held onto him and left him in the reserves, he would have caused a negative influence. The right option was taken here.

Ush1

gimmick wrote: »

But the fact that Ibra did have swipes makes Pep correct IMO. He left Pep in a situation where if he overlooked the situation, his credibility for discipline was down the pot. Had he held onto him and left him in the reserves, he would have caused a negative influence. The right option was taken here.

Yet he wanted to keep Toure whos agent was also taking swipes?

gimmick

I would imagine he felt he had less cover for Toure than he did Ibra. Also note that Toure never actually said anything out of the way, it was always his agent. Both Ibra and his agent rocked the boat. Plus with Toure - he was always going to be 2nd choice for his position (rightly or wrongly), so in the end Toure was always going to leave for first team football.

Ush1

gimmick wrote: »

I would imagine he felt he had less cover for Toure than he did Ibra. Also note that Toure never actually said anything out of the way, it was always his agent. Both Ibra and his agent rocked the boat. Plus with Toure - he was always going to be 2nd choice for his position (rightly or wrongly), so in the end Toure was always going to leave for first team football.

Show me where Ibra was taking swipes publicly before the writing was on the wall?

Smacks of a double standard tbh.

Davaeo09

Pointless argument is pointless..

1. Pep wanted rid of Eto'o for his "bigger than club" attitude
2. Laporta seen Ibra for Eto'o as a good idea, NOT Pep. If Pep had his way we would have landed Villa last season.
3. Ibra arrived and shocked Pep with his demands and attitude. Pep kept his faith in his squad and put his head down in terms of Ibra. But Ibra came out and scored a few important goals (i.e Madrid).
4. As the summer drew closer Pep grew tired of Ibra's lethargic attitude, his poor work rate and even worse attitude.

SO HE SOLD HIM AND BOUGHT A BETTER PLAYER.
That's all there is to it...

Also i'd like to point out, who the **** here has any right to question Pep, the man's a genius! And has created a very unified squad. One of his first principals was that the team plays together, for each other. But when a player disrupts that their shipped out. Now what's so bad about that?

redout

España 3 up at the moment - Villa scored and Torres has two.

EDIT: 4 - 0 Silva

Bodhisopha

Does anyone know how one would go about getting tickets for the classico, at the Camp Nou of course?

redout

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Does anyone know how one would go about getting tickets for the classico, at the Camp Nou of course?

Soldout yesterday morning.

Bodhisopha

redout wrote: »

Soldout yesterday morning.

Oh ffs!

I'm looking at going over at the end of this month or early October anyways, i'll be okay getting tickets for those games, yeah?

redout

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Oh ffs!

I'm looking at going over at the end of this month or early October anyways, i'll be okay getting tickets for those games, yeah?

Yeah, most games you could find tickets for.

Only difficult ones are Espanyol, Real Madrid and big European ties.

Mark 14th september in your diary - thats general sale to the public for all games.

Bodhisopha

Cheers Redout. What's the deal with big european nights? How quickly are they likely to sell out? Obviously i can't pick them up when they come on sale myself but have someone in the city who could.

I'm talking knockout stages.

redout

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Cheers Redout. What's the deal with big european nights? How quickly are they likely to sell out? Obviously i can't pick them up when they come on sale myself but have someone in the city who could.

I'm talking knockout stages.

I went to the semi-final against Chelsea season before last and I got some 10 days before that were released from season ticket holders. The rest were all sold to club members about a few weeks before. There is about 170,000 socis and each one can purchase two tickets. Obvioulsy a lot of them wont but with 2 tickets allowed per member you can see how easily they can disappear long before the general public ever gets a chance.

Frisbee

Going to be in Terrassa (just outside Barca) for when they play Sevilla at home so thinking of going along. General Sale tickets are €42, I'm assuming these are up in the rafters?

gimmick

They would be ya, as Sevilla would be classed as a "A" game. However, if there are empty seats below, you can work your way down the stands.

Frisbee

gimmick wrote: »

They would be ya, as Sevilla would be classed as a "A" game. However, if there are empty seats below, you can work your way down the stands.

Cheers. Yeah would have been handy if it was a game against a smaller team as we might have got better seats for cheaper. Should still be good craic though.

How far in advance do tickets usually sell out, like I probalby won't know if we'll have anything on that evening until around three weeks beforehand..

redout

Pique: Sir Alex Ferguson was like a second father to me

Gerard Pique says the difficult decision to leave Manchester United for his native Barcelona in 2008 was made even harder because of his attachment to his “second father” Sir Alex Ferguson.

The Spain international defender quit Old Trafford as he started to make the breakthrough but has since gone on to lift the game's major honours with club and country within two years of his departure.

Speaking to Graham Hunter exclusively for STV Sports Centre, the highly-regarded 23-year-old – who got his hands on the World Cup trophy this summer a season on from winning the Champions League – says the influence of the Scottish manager on his early career went a long way towards his achievements.

Spending four seasons in Manchester from the age of 17, Pique revealed Sir Alex immediately took him under his wing upon his arrival from Barcelona's youth system. Then, faced with the difficult task of telling his manager he wanted to return to Spain, he recalls the emotional response from a character better known for his ruthless nature.

“When I arrived there I was 17 and it was really hard for me to leave my family here, to change club, to change all my friends,” said Pique. “For me, Sir Alex Ferguson was like a second father.

“He helped in all the ways, not only in football terms but also how to find a house and all my relations out of football. I think that, for me, he was a really helpful person. For me, Alex Ferguson will always be a second father.

“I remember when I went to his room to say that I wanted to leave because Barcelona was coming for me. It was my town, it was my club when I was young and I wanted to come back. He didn't want me to leave and said I had a future at the club and he expected a lot from me.

“But I wanted to leave and he wrote me a letter saying that it was really difficult and really hard for him to let me go to Barcelona.”

Pique's years at Manchester United saw him train every day with Paul Scholes, a player who he regards as one of the finest midfielders in the game. There is only one player who is on a level par with the evergreen star though according to Pique, his current club and international team-mate Xavi, who holds a mutual respect for his English counterpart.

“I think they are two of the best players I have ever seen,” Pique said. “With the ball they are fantastic. I remember one day I was talking with Xavi and he said, for him, Paul Scholes was one of the best players he had ever seen.

“I think the two like each other because they like the same football and it's really beautiful.”

Link

#15

Great article. Pique always seems to come across as a good guy.

He's spot on about Scholes and Xavi too.

gimmick

I had not noticed, but Abidal has played all 3 games so far as centre half. Not done too badly either it must be said. So thats decent cover in that position with Puyol, Pique, Milito and Abidal. LB is fine also with Maxwell and Adriano.

I still worry about the lack of cover at right back though.

Lukker-

#15 wrote: »

Great article. Pique always seems to come across as a good guy.

He's spot on about Scholes and Xavi too.

Top footballer, good guy? I doubt it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5-cRqh2W1g

gimmick

Zlat's all folks: Barcelona finally get their man ... but at a price

After all the spending, bickering, name-calling and posturing, Barça have got David Villa – and offloaded Zlatan Ibrahimovic


The first day of a brand new season and the excitement is growing. So too is the crowd – hotter, sweatier and more expectant by the minute. There are cameras everywhere. TV crews are providing breathless updates, radios and websites live commentary. Refresh, refresh, refresh. No one wants to miss a second. Deep down they think they know what's going to happen in the end but still they're desperate to see how this one plays out. No, not at the Rico Pérez, the Rosaleda or the Ciutat de Valencia. Like Nelson, even the commentary teams at those stadiums, the stage of the opening three games of the 2010-11 campaign, have got an eye somewhere else. Like everyone else, they've got an eye on Carrer d'Aristides Maillol, Barcelona.

They're holding out for a hero but it's not Hércules that Spain is waiting for, returning to the first division 13 years later and, somehow, not in the midst of a scandal – and that's the biggest scandal of all. Or Málaga, where Abdullah bin Nasser al-Thami is the first Sheikh to buy a Spanish club and the first to sack his underachieving staff, director general Yasmin al-Sahoud getting the chop less than 12 hours after her team's opening-day defeat to Valencia. And it's certainly not Levante – with depressing inevitability, their return to primera, which they departed two years ago amid threats, strikes, and broken promises, is played out about before empty stands. No. It's the Tall Man and the Fat Man.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Mino Raiola.

Zlatan and Raiola, his agent, have become the stars of the summer, after the Spain squad and José Mourinho. Comic book bad guys who have confronted the world, taking on FC Barcelona and the one person you're just not supposed to take on – coach Pep Guardiola. The same Guardiola who Ibrahimovic said has "spoken to me only twice in six months", that Raiola attacked so bitterly Barcelona switched on Spain's default setting and announced legal action – to which Raiola declared: "No one tells me to shut up … except Zlatan." The same Guardiola that Raiola said, "should be in a mental hospital", "has a problem with himself", and would "leave the Camp Nou before Zlatan does". After all, he added: "It's simple maths: Zlatan has four years on his contract, Guardiola just one."

He's about to be proven wrong. But although they're going to lose, by God, they're going to take them down with them. Although they're going to lose, although Guardiola is ultimately going to get his way, they're going to win too. Those who called Raiola an idiot, the world's worst agent, are as wrong as those who call Pedro López the world's worst serial killer. Look at it his way: he's the best. Yes, he's a clown and a big mouth, a walking parody, but he's a ludicrously rich one, feisty as hell and successful too. Ibrahimovic has now commanded €140m in transfer fees. You've got to admire their balls. Just don't let them catch you doing it.

It's hours now since Ibrahimovic strolled past and announced with a sarcastic grin "I'm here to renew my contract" and everyone's gathered by the back door to the Camp Nou offices, desperate for a glimpse of something, someone, behind those glass doors – reporters with their fingers in their ears panting: "Yes, yes, a lady just came by with a bottle … hang on, I think I saw a secretary carrying a stack of papers."

And then at last, it happens. Beyond the glass, Zlatan strolls through the metal turnstile. Ahead of him Raiola, chunky, bruising; jeans, trainers, and a scraggy checked shirt, looking like he'd just arrived at the wheel of a lorry, and Milan's general manager Adriano Galliani. It's official at last: Zlatan Ibrahimovic is leaving. Milan will take him on loan; next season they will be obliged to sign him for €24m. As for Ibrahimovic, he has taken a step back for the first time in his career and will also take a pay cut. But still, he has joined Milan on €8m a year.

"The 'philosopher' has kicked me out," spits Ibrahimovic as he strolls into the scrum. "I don't know what his problem with me was. Whenever I walked into a room he walked out again … maybe he was scared of me."

Scared? Who'd be scared of a 6ft 3in, 13st Swede with a deathly stare and a mean temper who Raiola says "could slap me into next week"? No, Guardiola wasn't scared of Ibrahimovic, he was sick of him. Disappointed by his contribution and his attitude. As one insider puts it: "Zlatan thinks he's Messi and he's not." For all that the coach was seduced by the idea of having a Plan B, it hadn't worked when they needed it most. When Barcelona made a final, hugely impressive push for the title, they did so without Ibrahimovic and with Bojan Krkic. The group mattered most so at the end of the campaign he insisted on Barcelona selling the Swede – no matter what the cost.

The cost was high. Some newspapers splashed their covers with a little round sticker like it was Tesco Value Thick Slice, declaring "double saving: Barcelona make €24m and save €60m in wages". Or screamed: "Good riddance Ibra". Others pointed out that Barça had lost €40m on the deal.* They were right. Last season, Barcelona bought him for €45m plus Eto'o, formally valued at €20m. It looked like a ridiculous deal then: it looks like even more of a ridiculous deal now. It also underlines an uncomfortable truth: Guardiola wanted David Villa but – for reasons of finance, football and 'feeling' – he wanted shot of Eto'o more. It became an obsession. It was largely the fact that Inter would take him that forced their hand and finally ensured it would be Ibrahimovic that signed instead.

Now, at last, Barcelona have the player they really want. But it has cost them €40m to sign Villa – the same price a year later. In the meantime, they have effectively paid €20m to send two players to Milan. Embarrassingly, Eto'o went and immediately won a second successive treble; it would not be a huge surprise if Ibrahimovic is successful too: he has won seven successive league titles, after all. He hasn't been a failure at Barcelona. Not really. He got 21 goals and 11 assists in all competitions, scored the winner against Real Madrid, and averaged a goal every other game in the league. He even scored in the Champions League – twice, against Arsenal. Only Gonzalo Higuaín was directly responsible for securing his side more points in La Liga.

"You don't buy a Ferrari and just leave it in the garage," Raiola complained.

You do if you've already got a Skoda. Or a Villa, a Messi, a Xavi or an Iniesta – the man who, minding his own business on holiday, responded to intense media attention after scoring the winning goal in the World Cup by shrugging: "I don't mind the paparazzi following me about but having a go at my swimming trunks is a bit harsh."

And that's the thing. When the dust finally settled, Barcelona went into the opening game of the season and destroyed Racing Santander with two wonderful finishes from Messi and Iniesta. There was also – and you should get used to this phrase – a goal from Villa. It may have been costly, painful and hugely embarrassing, it may still come back to bite them but now, at last, after all the bickering and the shouting and the name-calling; after the accusation and counter-accusation, the chest-puffing and posturing, Raiola has finally got what he wanted – a huge great big lorry pulling into his drive loaded with cash – but so have Barcelona. The harmony Guardiola demanded and the perfect addition to an already fantastic side, a striker who should have joined a really, really big club years ago. "This team is even better than last year," the Racing coach Miguel-Ángel Portugal sighed.

That's not all they have got. For Barça, better yet was the news coming in from Palma. Last year Barça dropped just 15 points all season; they already have a two-point lead over Real Madrid after Mourinho's side could only draw 0-0 with Mallorca and have started off where they finished last season – without The Tall Man and top of the table. "Zlatan was the centre of attention on Saturday," Guardiola said. "Now, if you don't mind, I'd quite like my team to be."

*See if you can guess which papers went for which reading.

Talking points

• José Mourinho nailed it. Maybe not when it came to last night's result – and, in a title race that is likely to see both sides racking up huge points totals, even draws such as last night's could prove very costly – but certainly in terms of the season as a whole. No one doubts, for now at least, that Barcelona are a better side than Madrid but that's not really the point if Madrid are still better than everyone else. If they don't slip up too many more times. "We only play Barcelona twice," Mourinho said. "Well, or four times if we meet in the Champions League or the Copa del Rey."

• The press box was empty even though they claimed it was full, but the stadium – for once – was packed. Son Moix made a hell of a noise for Real Madrid's visit and afterwards Michael Laudrup said he hopes the result can keep fans coming back. Much of the atmosphere was whipped up in protest at Uefa's decision to deny them the chance to compete in European competition after finishing fifth last season. "Puta Platini, puta Platini!" and attacks on Villarreal occupied them much of the time – as well as calls for Nando Pons, the club's sporting director to resign. There was also a banner showing Platini and declaring him a "Godfather". The day before the Villarreal president Fernando Roig had said he thought it was entirely justified for Mallorca to be denied the chance to play in the Europa League after going into administration. It just so happened that his Villarreal side would be the beneficiaries. Mallorca then attacked him for being ungentlemanly in an official communiqué on their website and accused Villarreal of having the least realistic economic policy in the whole of the league. The thing is, while their Europa League exit stings it is also quite right. As was Roig. Mallorca are using administration to resolve their financial crisis – and under new ownership, the long-term future looks more stable – but there are football penalties to be paid for doing so. Which they knew perfectly well. It may also help in the long run – Laudrup has admitted that, with a short squad and a tiny budget, European football could have dangerous consequences for the league campaign, while a sense of injustice, however skewed, can on last night's create atmosphere and unity at last.

• Malaga may have sacked their general manager but their opening day performance was not as bad as the decision suggests. Yes, it was anarchic and disorganised but there is real pace and aggression about their front three or four and they should easily avoid relegation this year – and more. Great atmosphere at the Rosaleda, too. As for opponents Valencia, they've lost Villa and Silva but they should still easily chase a European place. Their stand-out performer was Joaquín.

• He looks like some sort of weird drag queen but Osvaldo scores plenty of goals. He was on target again as Espanyol won 3-1 against Getafe. Could Pochettino's side be the one to surprise this season?

• Deportivo in 0-0 draw shock. Bet you never saw that one coming, did you. Eh? Oh.

• And, the season's first goal was scored by World Cup winner Fernando Llorente.

Results Herculés 0-1 Athletic, Málaga 1–3 Valencia, Levante 1-4 Sevilla, Real Sociedad 1-0 Villarreal, Deportivo 0-0 Zaragoza, Osasuna 0-0 Almería, Racing 0-3 Barcelona, Mallorca 0-0 Real Madrid, Espanyol 3-1 Getafe, Atlético v Sporting, tonight.

Found this on another forum. Looks like Tim Stannards work, but not sure.

Good read. Ibras agent comesacross as an awful prick.

dfx-

That's Dr. Lowe's work..

LuckyLloyd

First bit of justice of the season. Going to be a good year.

L'prof

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

First bit of justice of the season. Going to be a good year.

Justice? How so?

flahavaj

Did not see that result coming at all. As poor a display I've seen from Barca in a long long time. Sluggish throughout and the onslaught I kept expecting to see never materialised. Hercules defended very well, used the ball well and were good value for the win. They could have had 3 or 4 by the end as well.

Is it possible the Barca players are fatigued, its literally years since a lot of their Spanish internationals have had a prolonged break from the game?

#15

L'prof wrote: »

Justice? How so?

The ''best defensive midfielder in the world'' had a nightmare debut. Shíte from start to finish, and could have been sent off.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

First bit of justice of the season. Going to be a good year.

?

Are people resorting to Barcelona losing a game against the run of play to get their kicks two games in?

#15

dfx- wrote: »

?

Are people resorting to Barcelona losing a game against the run of play to get their kicks two games in?

To be fair to Lloyd, I think he's enjoying seeing Mascherano lose, rather than Barca. I could be wrong though.

Dolph Starbeam

dfx- wrote: »

?

Are people resorting to Barcelona losing a game against the run of play to get their kicks two games in?

Fact, if people think this is how things are going for the season then they are wrong, 75% odd posession, i know they over did it at times but they will get there. Hercules were unlucky not to score a couple more but so were Barca, also Real aren't on fire yet this season so its all still wide open.

greendom

The Spanish FA have to take some of the blame - making the national team go to South America to play a friendly.

redout

greendom wrote: »

The Spanish FA have to take some of the blame - making the national team go to South America to play a friendly.

Blame for what ?

Pep said last night that you cant use that excuse of international friendlies and he was spot on.

Fair enough Barca were missing four regular starters in Xavi, Puyol, Busquets and Alves but the better side won the game.

greendom

redout wrote: »

Blame for what ?

Pep said last night that you cant use that excuse of international friendlies and he was spot on.

Fair enough Barca were missing four regular starters in Xavi, Puyol, Busquets and Alves but the better side won the game.

I just don't see the logic of sending the national team half-way round the World twice in a month; money must have a part to play but I think it's completely wrong and clubs have got to start putting their foot down; demanding compensation from National FAs if players return in a position where they cannot play through tiredness or injury.

redout

greendom wrote: »

I just don't see the logic of sending the national team half-way round the World twice in a month; money must have a part to play but I think it's completely wrong and clubs have got to start putting their foot down; demanding compensation from National FAs if players return in a position where they cannot play through tiredness or injury.

I dunno about the Argentina game but the Mexico game was arranged months before the World cup and was to celebrate some centenary in Mexico. Travelling to North/South America twice inside a month is a big ask I suppose especially when the first game none of the world cup players for the Spanish team had even trained since the World cup final. I would agree that it wasnt a logical thing to do.

eZe^

Unbelievably inept performance from Barca last night. Credit to Hercules, but the team lacked so much cutting edge it was untrue. Villa was isolated too much on the wings, Bojan was anonymous, Messi and Pedro tried to do far too much. A few more performances like that and the team will need a swift kick in the balls.

monkey9

What surprised me about the match was there was no barrage of attempts on Hercules' goal. I was expected the animo, but it was all fairly insipid.

Hercules definitely deserved to win, maybe it was just a blip from Barca after an international break and might be a kick up the backside they need.

Half of this team has won the World Cup and maybe this is all still a bit of a comedown. Maybe even complacency creeping in with thoughts that the match was won before it kicked off.

A defeat like this so early in the season could end up being a good thing in the long run.