The Cuban revolution 50 years on

yomchi

The Cuban revolution celebrates its 50th year this year.

5o years since Cuban guerillas over threw the American puppet regime and installed a working socialist state.
The diabolical trade blockade is still in existance, yet the Cuban people are strong and resiliant, defiant. We could learn so much from the Cubans if we had the guts to.

Happy Anniversary Cuba


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXYMXxfboY

_Nuno_

Jon wrote: »

The Cuban revolution celebrates its 50th year this year.

5o years since Cuban guerillas over threw the American puppet regime and installed a working socialist state.
The diabolical trade blockade is still in existance, yet the Cuban people are strong and resiliant, defiant. We could learn so much from the Cubans if we had the guts to.

Happy Anniversary Cuba


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXYMXxfboY

No point in wishing Cubans a happy anniversary online, because Cubans are not allowed internet access. You see, those kind of freedoms are not compatible with the all controlling socialist state. People who have access to non state controlled information tend to want things the dictator (yes, that man that seemed to have such good intentions in the beginning) does not want them to have, so access to information must be tightly controlled.

yomchi

_Nuno_ wrote: »

No point in wishing Cubans a happy anniversary online, because Cubans are not allowed internet access. You see, those kind of freedoms are not compatible with the all controlling socialist state. People who have access to non state controlled information tend to want things the dictator (yes, that man that seemed to have such good intentions in the beginning) does not want them to have, so access to information must be tightly controlled.

LOL, sorry for laughing. I must say that to my friend Dagoberto when he emails me next week, from his imaginery internet location, from Cuba :rolleyes:

turgon

Jon wrote: »

installed a working socialist state.

Thats news to me.

Paddy Samurai

The Cuban revolution 50 years on

Yep i too wish them all the best,and am a little envious of some aspects of their daily lives.
Although by western standards they have a lower living standard.They have a society were people are'nt owned by banks or big business .For a country that does'nt have much material wealth they have a healthcare system that treats all their people equally.Cuba has one of the highest life expectancy rates in latin america.
Not too long ago we were the 5th richest country in the world apparently and look at our healthcare system.Have alook at this article in the Guardian newspaper.

"According to the World Health Organisation a Cuban man can expect to live to 75 and a woman to 79. The probability of a child dying aged under five is five per 1,000 live births. That is better than the US and on a par with the UK.
Yet these world-class results are delivered by a shoestring annual per capita health expenditure of $260 (£130) - less than a 10th of Britain's $3,065 and a fraction of America's $6,543. There is no mystery about Cuba's core strategy: prevention. From promoting exercise, hygiene and regular check-ups, the system is geared towards averting illnesses and treating them before they become advanced and costly."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/12/film.health

BRING ON THE EMBARGO!...........PLEASE!.
I pity them when the big corporations get back into Cuba.

yomchi

turgon wrote: »

Thats news to me.

Really? You've been there right? Or maybe you know Cubans?

Or maybe you should read Paddy Samurai's post, right below yours

turgon

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Yep i too wish them all the best,and am a little envious of some aspects of their daily lives.

I assume, "paddy", that you arent from Cuba??? Did you just buy the Che t-shirt and think your all communist?? Because your not talking much sense,

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

They have a society were people are'nt owned by banks or big business

Rephrase: they have a society where the option of letting a bank own them doesnt exist. Im sure if your a bit smart you can live without being in bad debt in this country. No one here is "owned" by anything except where theyve made foolish mistakes. In Cuba the government owns you.

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Cuba has one of the highest life expectancy rates in latin america.

The last two words are the giveaway. Latin America.

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Not too long ago we were the 5th richest country in the world apparently and look at our healthcare system.

Just because something in Ireland isnt good relative to European/Modern standards doesnt mean it is good in Cuba.

Jon wrote: »

Really? You've been there right? Or maybe you know Cubans?

Eh, no, Im just one of these people who realizes that communism doesnt work in practice. Shock. Horror. Not a hard concept to grasp, just read a few history books.

_Nuno_

Jon wrote: »

LOL, sorry for laughing. I must say that to my friend Dagoberto when he emails me next week, from his imaginery internet location, from Cuba :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3386413.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3425425.stm

yomchi

_Nuno_ wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3386413.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3425425.stm

"The government says the move is necessary to "regulate dial-up access to internet navigation services, adopting measures that help protect against the taking of passwords, malicious acts, and the fraudulent and unauthorised use of this service".

And...

'For the common good'

But the Cuban government has reacted angrily to suggestions that the change amounts to censorship.

It says it is doing nothing more than preventing overused internet connections being clogged up by people borrowing, or selling each other passwords.

The internet should be for the common good, it says, pointing out that it will still be available in schools and workplaces.

Dissident groups have expressed doubt that the authorities here can control the internet as much as they might wish.

It is true that whenever a new law comes into effect here, Cubans - who are famed for their inventiveness - tend to find a way around it.

Cubans can and do use the internet. Do I need to repeat my post above?

yomchi

turgon wrote: »

I assume, "paddy", that you arent from Cuba??? Did you just buy the Che t-shirt and think your all communist?? Because your not talking much sense,



Rephrase: they have a society where the option of letting a bank own them doesnt exist. Im sure if your a bit smart you can live without being in bad debt in this country. No one here is "owned" by anything except where theyve made foolish mistakes. In Cuba the government owns you.



The last two words are the giveaway. Latin America.



Just because something in Ireland isnt good relative to European/Modern standards doesnt mean it is good in Cuba.



Eh, no, Im just one of these people who realizes that communism doesnt work in practice. Shock. Horror. Not a hard concept to grasp, just read a few history books.

Yep as expected. An opinion most certainly taken from a history book as opposed any real understanding of the subject or reality for that matter.

Paddy Samurai

turgon wrote: »

The last two words are the giveaway. Latin America.
Just because something in Ireland isnt good relative to European/Modern standards doesnt mean it is good in Cuba.

No turgo you don't understand

THEY HAVE A BETTER HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THAN WE HAVE IN IRELAND

turgon

Jon wrote: »

'For the common good'

LOL, usually communist sympathizers avoid shooting themselves in the foot but youve pretty much achieved that right there.

Jon wrote: »

But the Cuban government has reacted angrily to suggestions that the change amounts to censorship.

Its the same way it react everytime its power is threatened. Does that not mean anything to you?

Jon wrote: »

Do I need to repeat my post above?

No, what you need to do is admit the Cuba isnt the paradise you make it out to be. _Nuno_ posted some good links and you had no good response. But dont fret, this is nothing to do with any fault of yourself, its to do with the fact that your position on Cuba is indefensible.

yomchi

turgon wrote: »

LOL, usually communist sympathizers avoid shooting themselves in the foot but youve pretty much achieved that right there.



Its the same way it react everytime its power is threatened. Does that not mean anything to you?



No, what you need to do is admit the Cuba isnt the paradise you make it out to be. _Nuno_ posted some good links and you had no good response. But dont fret, this is nothing to do with any fault of yourself, its to do with the fact that your position on Cuba is indefensible.

LMAO, Turgon, my friend - what is highlighted in bold in my post above is taken from the links nuno posted up. The answers were in the links, if you have read them you'd see that.
No where did I say Cuba was a paradise, it isn't because of the US embargo/blockade.

Of course no Country acts angrily when it's power is threatened, sure it doesn't? :rolleyes:

Paddy Samurai

turgon wrote: »

Rephrase: they have a society where the option of letting a bank own them doesnt exist. Im sure if your a bit smart you can live without being in bad debt in this country. No one here is "owned" by anything except where theyve made foolish mistakes. In Cuba the government owns you..

If you have a mortage ,they own your House till you pay them off
If you have a carloan ,they own your car till you pay them off
They can close down hundreds of businesses and put thousands out of work by not extending bank overdrafts.
If you put money in your account,take it out,write a cheque they charge you a fee.
If the banks collapse ,since the government made the people of ireland guarantors for their debts,you will work to pay it off with new taxes.
Thet get a share of every euro in your pocket ,you buy a loaf of bread,part of the price goes towards the bakers mortage/bankloan etc.
They own you ,you just don't know it.
And as for the cuba government i'd take them over what we got at the moment any day.

And no i'am not a communist i just believe in giving credit were its due.

_Nuno_

Jon wrote: »

LMAO, Turgon, my friend - what is highlighted in bold in my post above is taken from the links nuno posted up. The answers were in the links, if you have read them you'd see that.
No where did I say Cuba was a paradise, it isn't because of the US embargo/blockade.

Of course no Country acts angrily when it's power is threatened, sure it doesn't? :rolleyes:

Most of them don't have access to a computer or internet and up until recently they could not even legally own a personal computer, because the state would not allow it. Only when Raul Castro replaced Fidel they were allowed. They might have a good healthcare system and very good education but little more than that.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9935007-7.html

_Nuno_

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

And as for the cuba government i'd take them over what we got at the moment any day.

And no i'am not a communist i just believe in giving credit were its due.

You'd like to be paid 10-15 USD a month? Regardless of what you did for a living? Would you like not to be allowed to use a computer or to have access to the internet?

yomchi

_Nuno_ wrote: »

Most of them don't have access to a computer or internet and up until recently they could not even legally own a personal computer, because the state would not allow it. Only when Raul Castro replaced Fidel they were allowed. They might have a good healthcare system and very good education but little more than that.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9935007-7.html

Now this post just highlights your learning as you go find links with information.

So was I right at the start of this thread, that Cubans have access to PC's and to the Internet? Yes I was.

I spoke to the Cuban ambassador last Friday evening at an event and he told my Fidel Castro was still very much in charge, only his brother Raul was the face of the government.

yomchi

_Nuno_ wrote: »

You'd like to be paid 10-15 USD a month? Regardless of what you did for a living? Would you like not to be allowed to use a computer or to have access to the internet?

Nuno, get off the wine.
You just posted links now stating that Cubans have access to internet and PC's - you also rightly pointed out that they have FREE education and health care which is second to none on this planet. They do also provide a doctor to each community, and supply fresh milk daily to every house hold. What do you focus on, the money - see where your head is at?

Contradiction after contradiction.

_Nuno_

Jon wrote: »

Nuno, get off the wine.
You just posted links now stating that Cubans have access to internet and PC's - you also rightly pointed out that they have FREE education and health care which is second to none on this planet. They do also provide a doctor to each community, and supply fresh milk daily to every house hold. What do you focus on, the money - see where your head is at?

Contradiction after contradiction.

Are you serious? The average Cuban can buy with his salary, if I remember correctly, one beer a week. And he would have money for nothing else. You are delusional. If you think free healthcare and education at the expense of freedom is a good thing you have a good solution. Join the Cubans, or the Chinese/north Koreans etc. Put your money where your mouth is.

_Nuno_

Jon wrote: »

Now this post just highlights your learning as you go find links with information.

So was I right at the start of this thread, that Cubans have access to PC's and to the Internet? Yes I was.

I spoke to the Cuban ambassador last Friday evening at an event and he told my Fidel Castro was still very much in charge, only his brother Raul was the face of the government.

They have legal access to PC since this year. How impressive. 3 decades after everyone else. But guess what, no one can afford one there, unless they have some kind of illegal activity, which most people must have in order to survive. Do you think they buy computers with their 10 usd a month salaries? Do you think Cuba manufacturers computers? Again, if you like living in misery and all you need is free healthcare, you have better options than Ireland.

thebigcheese22

_Nuno_ wrote: »

You'd like to be paid 10-15 USD a month? Regardless of what you did for a living? Would you like not to be allowed to use a computer or to have access to the internet?

Firstly, they have very little inflation in Cuba so thats the equivelent to our average wage in this country, when buying goods etc.
Meanwhile, they have a society that doesn't have some wealthy people controlling everything, and that actually value the working classes. What a crime.

Plus I think you've been proven undoubtedly wrong about the lie that the Internet is not allowed in Cuba.

If there was an election in Cuba I guarantee you that either of the Castros would win it by a landslide.

Long live Fidel!!! :cool:

Thinkingaboutit

Pre-revolutionary Cuba was nearly the wealthiest country in Latin American after oil rich Venezuela, in Batista Cuba had its first and last non white leader, and it had a very high number of doctors, rivalling or bettering many western countries. There might be a good access to healthcare and a pharmaceutical industry, but to somehow contend that the low pay is somehow equivalent to here, is a joke. What's worse is that pay is in a sort of non-convertible Peso, while expensive goods require a convertible Peso to purchase.

_Nuno_

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Firstly, they have very little inflation in Cuba so thats the equivelent to our average wage in this country, when buying goods etc.

That is a complete joke. It is not the equivalent to here. The average Cuban can not buy a car, computer etc, and they can never for example go on holidays.

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Meanwhile, they have a society that doesn't have some wealthy people controlling everything, and that actually value the working classes. What a crime.

Yes they do have some wealthy people controlling everything. Castro and his friends,

Value the working class? Everyone gets the same crap salary, but the ones with powerful friends.

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Plus I think you've been proven undoubtedly wrong about the lie that the Internet is not allowed in Cuba.

Internet is not allowed to the common citizen, which up to this year could not even legally own a computer.

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

If there was an election in Cuba I guarantee you that either of the Castros would win it by a landslide.

Long live Fidel!!! :cool:

Of course he would win. You know what happens to anyone that opposes him? They're silenced, one way or the other. Castro is a dictator, regardless of whatever intention he had in the beginning. There's no way of establishing and maintaining a communist regime without dictatorship. Some people will always want more than what the state determines they can have, and the only way to keep them from getting it is by force. It is unfortunate that some people can not learn from the past, regardless of how grave the consequences of mistake repetitively committed are.

brianthebard

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

If there was an election in Cuba I guarantee you that either of the Castros would win it by a landslide.

Long live Fidel!!! :cool:

They have elections in Cuba.

SkepticOne

Jon wrote: »

"The government says the move is necessary to "regulate dial-up access to internet navigation services, adopting measures that help protect against the taking of passwords, malicious acts, and the fraudulent and unauthorised use of this service".

And...

'For the common good'

But the Cuban government has reacted angrily to suggestions that the change amounts to censorship.

It says it is doing nothing more than preventing overused internet connections being clogged up by people borrowing, or selling each other passwords.

This is very believable.

turgon

So basically Jon and his comrades value education and health care.

Everyone else values freedom, being able to do what you want,accountable government (they have micky mouse elections in Cuba with only 1 candidate), freedom of political expression, freedom of speech, a good standard of living and being able to move around the world.

But worse than this is "the excellent excuses" that are forthcoming at every perversion of what is good for the people, such as the curtailing for the "common good". And to think that Europeans swallow that stuff done, you couldnt make it up.

Another Orwell quote - Ignorance is strength. Especially in this case.

Running Bing

turgon wrote: »

So basically Jon and his comrades value education and health care.

Everyone else values freedom, being able to do what you want,accountable government (they have micky mouse elections in Cuba with only 1 candidate), freedom of political expression, freedom of speech, a good standard of living and being able to move around the world.

...and ironically health and education are both run by the government in this country, a bit like in Cuba:rolleyes: Except of course over here Universities don't exclude you because of your political beliefs.


A question for people arguing in favour of the Cuban system: If a change was made to health or education that benefited everybody, but benefited the rich more than the poor would you be in favour of it?

yomchi

turgon wrote: »

So basically Jon and his comrades value education and health care.

Everyone else values freedom, being able to do what you want,accountable government (they have micky mouse elections in Cuba with only 1 candidate), freedom of political expression, freedom of speech, a good standard of living and being able to move around the world.

But worse than this is "the excellent excuses" that are forthcoming at every perversion of what is good for the people, such as the curtailing for the "common good". And to think that Europeans swallow that stuff done, you couldnt make it up.

Another Orwell quote - Ignorance is strength. Especially in this case.

Please define this freedom you speak of. I can assure you, if you are not already owned by a bank, you will be someday.
I can assure you, if you have to take a trip to the Mater hospital (real recent example) you will be there waiting for over 24 hours, I can assure you if you want to go to college here you will be burdened with fees. I can assure you you will HAVE to pay unreasonable taxes to a system that shags you up the rear-end, you will be pay huge road tax and not have a good raod to drive on, you can use public transport but they're cutting the arse out of that too...

Where is this freedom you speak of? Don't tell me, freedom to keep your head down and be a good boy?
Do tell.

irish_bob

Jon wrote: »

Please define this freedom you speak of. I can assure you, if you are not already owned by a bank, you will be someday.
I can assure you, if you have to take a trip to the Mater hospital (real recent example) you will be there waiting for over 24 hours, I can assure you if you want to go to college here you will be burdened with fees. I can assure you you will HAVE to pay unreasonable taxes to a system that shags you up the rear-end, you will be pay huge road tax and not have a good raod to drive on, you can use public transport but they're cutting the arse out of that too...

Where is this freedom you speak of? Don't tell me, freedom to keep your head down and be a good boy?
Do tell.

in ireland , we have the freedom to suceed and the freedom to fail , failure is a wonderfull thing, i dont want the state to protect me from failure by way of curtailing the freedom i have to make use of banks

in cuba you dont have the freedom to suceed due to the fact that state controls everything , whats so wonderfull about that , your arguement about how the banks owns you is bogus , it only owns you if you decide it does

lmtduffy

There are a lot of great things about cuba its health care, education its storng society and culture.

But I think the questionable elements some speak of will be exposed or seen to be untrue once relations with the US turn normal(hopefully they will)

Cuba can justify alot of things due to the embargo, and I dont think we can judge to much until that's over.

They can still fail there, most Cubans have their government job and their "illegal" job so they can still stretch their entrepreneurial muscles.

But the profit dos not count for much on the global scale, as others have mentioned they not goin on holiday.

Consider that 10% of cubas GDP is money sent to cubans from relations mainly in america.

It is admirable that Cuba has gone on for so long despite Americas, at times best efforts.

yomchi

irish_bob wrote: »

in ireland , we have the freedom to suceed and the freedom to fail , failure is a wonderfull thing, i dont want the state to protect me from failure by way of curtailing the freedom i have to make use of banks

in cuba you dont have the freedom to suceed due to the fact that state controls everything , whats so wonderfull about that , your arguement about how the banks owns you is bogus , it only owns you if you decide it does

What is success?
Define success? Owning yor own house? Having a cushy job? Driving a nice car? Having private health insurance? Owning some land?

You will find your answer will be in line with that of a person confined by this system.

Judging by your last sentence, you do not have a mortgage.