The Cuban revolution 50 years on

RedPlanet

All of your sources to date, leave a lot to be desired.
Why don't you pull your head out of the Sun and take a holiday to Cuba!

Permabear

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g5fd6ow0hseima

donegalfella wrote: »

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You see, the problem is that everybody has bought into the idea of democracy to the point where people see it as something which every nation must adopt as a system of government.

Yeah, ill admit Cuba is in tatter, but still doing remarkably well considering the reality that its a country which has had to operate in almost isolation since the collapse of the USSR. Where would our 'oh joyeus democracy' be if we had little or no contact with the EU in the past decades? Im sure our literacy / poverty / infant mortality wouldnt be any better. Thankfully, its got a friendly source for its oil in Venezuela, which happens to secure one vital commodity.

I know you think of it as rhetorical for cuban admirers to mention the embargo, but its similair to what life in ireland would be like if the EU put a trade embargo on us. Your a fool if you think Cuba should have glistening hospitals and people walking around with gold teeth.

Nice to know that there are no people homeless in Cuba. But then again that **** doesnt matter because they cannot vote for democratic governments who will do as they please anyways. My vote wouldnt supercede a roof over my head, it seems it would with you.

Why is it that every country needs democracy? Why is a western ideal so righteous in that it has to be adopted in every state in the world? Look at Cambodia in 1990 - millions upon millions spent on the first internationally monitored elections. Wouldnt that money have been better off spent cleaning up the country's prisions, hospitals and other vital infrastructure, and when all is better, then think about democracy.

I cant help but think you liken Cuba to North Korea.

Permabear

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turgon

Dayana Sticky Tundra wrote: »

Why is it that every country needs democracy? Why is a western ideal so righteous in that it has to be adopted in every state in the world? Look at Cambodia in 1990 - millions upon millions spent on the first internationally monitored elections. Wouldnt that money have been better off spent cleaning up the country's prisions, hospitals and other vital infrastructure, and when all is better, then think about democracy.

Through what means?? Do you suggest the millions should have been handed over to a sort of person like Mugabe with the words "be a good bo6y and spend it on the people"?? It would be great if all the money we gave poor countries helped people but in reality it doesn't.

Democracy brings accountability to government, which mean that when that big fat check is handed to the PM he has a responsibility to spend it well. At the end of the day if you give a democratic PM only a third of the money you give a despot it will have only have the same positive effect.

The most stable countries in the world are democratic, the EU 27 and EFTA, USA etc etc. They are also the most well off in terms of the average quality of living per person. Suggest a better system and I will be humbled.

g5fd6ow0hseima

donegalfella wrote: »

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True, democracy brings with it prosperity, well said. But also, after initial prosperity, it stretches to only serve for the widening of the wealth divide, and the creation of a consumer society. This is the case in all democratic states, although social-democracies like Denmark are what I would view as the best form of government.

So, in Cuba, in the event of becoming democratic, it would simply witness an influx of foreign investment from American, hotels / resorts etc, in which all the profits would be shipped to America, Cuba is something which is of great potential to U.S. investors as no doubt, the country would witness an explosion in tourism if Castro and co were consigned to the history books. And with it would bring jobs in the tourism industry for its people etc, but would it serve to improve the current conditions for the ordinary cuban citizen? I feel it would do little, without guaranteed education and healthcare, the country would decay further if anything in my view. The country simply could not operate as a democracy and prosper. I feel the only alternative to the current system is one where it became like Ireland, a hub for MNC's to stop by en route to elsewhere.

Giving its history over the last fifty years, one might think that in the eventuality of communism falling, the USA might be more than eager to pump money into Cuba well above par with what its doing in other latin American countries simply for propanganda reasons - improve social conditions in an effort to truly destroy any legacy that the Cuban communist state has left, ie, introduce a social welfare system to compensate for the remarkable health system that the communist somehow managed to keep on its feet. Sadly, I feel that Cuba would simply endure the same fate as most other latin countries. Become something of a plantation like Guatemala in thw 1950s (although international awareness would almost prohibit this and thus play into the hands of those who would be eager to see Cuba 'prosper' under democracy.

Democracy is a fallacy in my eyes. Democracy is a word thrown about the place when suited to the interests of the powers that be. All of Central America is democratic, still very poor. I must try and unearth comparisons between social and economic indicators between Cuba and the likes of Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatemala etc. I could then pose an arguement about that, as im sure its not right to speak of poverty in these countries without figures and official quotations, unlike the case of Cuba.

ChocolateSauce

There are some things more important than democracy. Food, water, shelter, education...if a despot can provide those and a democracy cannot, your choice is obvious; the same is true when you do have those.

Revisionists can't seem to stomach the fact that many of the greatest ideas ever thought of, like human rights, liberty and so on, were (and to a very great extent, are) achieved by the western powers, particularly under the influence of Anglo-Saxon culture. According to the UN, and in a statement I believe in, human rights are innate, and cannot be intrinsically limited by government, religion or culture. This means than if a culture 5000 years old has incorporated into itself human rights abuses, that culture must end its tradition or practice. The same goes for government. The Cuban government limits freedom and rights, and no economic or political ideology justifies that.

g5fd6ow0hseima

It seems some would rather starve to death in a democratic state than live under an authoritarian system

turgon

Dayana Sticky Tundra wrote: »

It seems some would rather starve to death in a democratic state than live under an authoritarian system

Yes because we are all starving to death in our democracies here. Ridiculous comment.

ChocolateSauce

Dayana Sticky Tundra wrote: »

It seems some would rather starve to death in a democratic state than live under an authoritarian system

Although I'd certainly die/kill to protect freedom, if say, a zombie apocalypse meant that only a military dictatorship could keep order, I'd fall in line.

ChocolateSauce

turgon wrote: »

Yes because we are all starving to death in our democracies here. Ridiculous comment.

A hypothetical comment, I would have thought.

Soldie

Dayana Sticky Tundra wrote: »

True, democracy brings with it prosperity, well said. But also, after initial prosperity, it stretches to only serve for the widening of the wealth divide, and the creation of a consumer society. This is the case in all democratic states, although social-democracies like Denmark are what I would view as the best form of government.

So, in Cuba, in the event of becoming democratic, it would simply witness an influx of foreign investment from American, hotels / resorts etc, in which all the profits would be shipped to America, Cuba is something which is of great potential to U.S. investors as no doubt, the country would witness an explosion in tourism if Castro and co were consigned to the history books. And with it would bring jobs in the tourism industry for its people etc, but would it serve to improve the current conditions for the ordinary cuban citizen? I feel it would do little, without guaranteed education and healthcare, the country would decay further if anything in my view. The country simply could not operate as a democracy and prosper. I feel the only alternative to the current system is one where it became like Ireland, a hub for MNC's to stop by en route to elsewhere.

Giving its history over the last fifty years, one might think that in the eventuality of communism falling, the USA might be more than eager to pump money into Cuba well above par with what its doing in other latin American countries simply for propanganda reasons - improve social conditions in an effort to truly destroy any legacy that the Cuban communist state has left, ie, introduce a social welfare system to compensate for the remarkable health system that the communist somehow managed to keep on its feet. Sadly, I feel that Cuba would simply endure the same fate as most other latin countries. Become something of a plantation like Guatemala in thw 1950s (although international awareness would almost prohibit this and thus play into the hands of those who would be eager to see Cuba 'prosper' under democracy.

Democracy is a fallacy in my eyes. Democracy is a word thrown about the place when suited to the interests of the powers that be. All of Central America is democratic, still very poor. I must try and unearth comparisons between social and economic indicators between Cuba and the likes of Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatemala etc. I could then pose an arguement about that, as im sure its not right to speak of poverty in these countries without figures and official quotations, unlike the case of Cuba.

It seems to me that you think democracy means the same thing as capitalism (your interpretation of it, at least). That is not the case.

Permabear

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turgon

As a closing comment: does anybody else see the irony of someone promoting the values of Cuba by criticizing their current government by utilizing free speech though the medium of an internet forum? All things that could not be done if their hoped for system came to fruition.