BoI staff to receive 3.5% pay rise after Gov bailout.

ednwireland

i hate to say it but by taking a huge lump of money from the gov. the banks have effectively said they are making no money. therefore the pay rise doesnt have to be paid. the opposite arguement was made for esb workers the company was making a profit (mainly due to an incompetent regulator who shouldnt have allowed huge increase in energy bills in the first place - aniother thread)
so your company doesnt make money you dont get a poay rise it doesnt matter if your bit is ok surely its the overall balance sheet that decides these factors ?

my 2c no way should they get a pay rise if they arent getting gov. bailouts fair enough if they are no pay rise or bonuses.

jmayo

ixoy wrote: »

As galling as it is, aren't the pay rises just a mere drop in the ocean compared to how much the banks need in capital? The few million being paid out are nothing compared to the amount of money they need. If they didn't award the pay rise, they'd probably need €6.99bn instead of €7bn. Symbolically of course it's a disaster but in the cold hard cash world it doesn't amount to much.

Of course these are loans to the banks, not mere free handouts. Anyone got any idea how much the government would stand to get back over the full length of the loan?

Stop using Government excuses for wastage of money.
Ah sur eit is only a drop in the ocean sh***. All these little drops add up and someone will have to pay for these drops.

Some loans they are getting :rolleyes:
Yes and if the bank was giving your company a loan to stay afloat, do you think they would allow you to increase expenses e.g hand out bonuses and wage increases ?
Would they f***.
I have seen what our fine banks did for small Irish companies in the past. They held them over a barrell.

bonkey wrote: »

An income tax increase would equally hit those who don't get an increment, such as bank clerks or anyone on a pay freeze.


From here:

...6,000 branch workers received a 3.5% pay rise backdated to last November — meaning up to €10m more will be paid out to bank officials this year.

The increase, which involves workers in employment grades below branch management, is linked to the same national pay deal as the ESB pay rise...

Exact enough?

You seem to have adopted the stance and mindset of the fine banks in the your current location, Switzerland.
These would be the fine banks that refused to pay the relatives of holocaust victims and gladly accept money form every tin pot dictator.

You may claim that ordinary workers deserve this raise and that they were not the executives that screwed up the system, but were not some of these staff not the ones handling personal mortgages that are hanging around ordinary people's necks like millstones.

Giving a raise like this at this time is affectively giving the fingers to public sector workers and other private sector workers who will have to pay for the bailouts.

Clowen has to put his foot down now.
No raises for anyone that gets money out of public purse.

Mr.Micro

Giving a raise like this at this time is affectively giving the fingers to public sector workers and other private sector workers who will have to pay for the bailouts.

All the talk recently of 10% paycuts and this lot getting a 3.5% hike. Yeah the BOI is really contrite, not.

bonkey

EF wrote: »

Ok my maths isn't great and im gladly open to correction but ill give it a shot. 10million being spent on a 3.5% increase for 6,000 workers means a rise of about €1,666 each on average.

Yup.

"Up to 10 million" being spent on teh same would mean that no more than 1,666 was being paid on average, but potentialy less.

For a 3.5% increase to equate to €1,666 you would need to be earning about €47,000?

Yup...sounds about right.

The article I linked to mentioned that the salaries ranged between 25K and 40K. My guess is that someone was lazy, and took 40k times 6,000 (getting 240M), calculated 3.5% of that (8.4M), decided that 6,000 being a round number meant it could be a touch more, and concluded an upper limit of 10M.

That is, though, just a guess.

bonkey

Caint cóir wrote: »

Yes your right Annon, this doesn't add up. My point is however that BoI staff were due a wage increase. The BoI staff are not the demons here, just because they work in a sector (under executives) that's displayed massive disregard for the global economy.

Indeed, given the complaints here, its not the BoI executives who are the demons in this case either.

Rather, its the government, for not forcing the bank to shaft its employees as one of the terms and conditions of the loan it has agreed to.

The bank, on the other hand, looked at the Ts & Cs, and figured that on top of the interest and repayment costs to the government, they could also afford to honour an existing pay deal. Apparently, this is comparable with supporting tin pot dictators, and screwing over Holocaust victims.

silverharp

bonkey wrote: »

The bank, on the other hand, looked at the Ts & Cs, and figured that on top of the interest and repayment costs to the government, they could also afford to honour an existing pay deal.

I'll agree with you that that is what they think, but since they cant put a value on their balance sheet, and are going to take massive hits in the years ahead with bad debts and loan write offs they are sending out very strange signals imo.

MG

Emmett Oliver said on Newstalk today that there is a strong rumour that there will be a 10% cut in numbers at BOI so a 3.5% increase will be cold comfort to many of them. He also said that retail banking was massively overstaffed based on the business of the boom years and he expected a lot of job losses in the industry.

silverharp

MG wrote: »

Emmett Oliver said on Newstalk today that there is a strong rumour that there will be a 10% cut in numbers at BOI so a 3.5% increase will be cold comfort to many of them. He also said that retail banking was massively overstaffed based on the business of the boom years and he expected a lot of job losses in the industry.

thats for sure, if consumer and business lending has dropped by more then 50% there is alot of thimb twiddling going on in the banks.I'm number pulling here but there will be at least a 20/30% drop in staff numbers in the Irish Finance industry, the unfortunite thing is if taxpayer money is being used to support these Zombie banks with no payback

ParkRunner

bonkey wrote: »

...6,000 branch workers received a 3.5% pay rise backdated to last November — meaning up to €10m more will be paid out to bank officials this year.

The increase, which involves workers in employment grades below branch management, is linked to the same national pay deal as the ESB pay rise...

Exact enough?

[PHP]Yup...sounds about right.

The article I linked to mentioned that the salaries ranged between 25K and 40K. My guess is that someone was lazy, and took 40k times 6,000 (getting 240M), calculated 3.5% of that (8.4M), decided that 6,000 being a round number meant it could be a touch more, and concluded an upper limit of 10M.

That is, though, just a guess.[/PHP]

I said it lacked transparency, you question are the figures not exact enough and then just guess at how the figures are broken down.

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

You seem to have adopted the stance and mindset of the fine banks in the your current location, Switzerland.
These would be the fine banks that refused to pay the relatives of holocaust victims and gladly accept money form every tin pot dictator.

Seriously, there is no need for contributions like this.

jmayo

nesf, the reason for that comment was I feel there seems to be a trend out there at the moment to blame all the problems in the banks and indeed in our entire economy on the people at the top and not anyone elses fault.
How many bank managers, mortgage sellers etc within the banks were happily tying people into huge mortgages.
Saying workers in banks deserve raises because it wasn't them but managers doing the dodgy deals is often disengenous.

Anecdotally, a number of years ago I went to check out mortgage with a financial institution.
I did not meet a manager, but a mortgage seller or whatever is job title was, who was happily inflating my prospects, including possible bonuses, rent a room returns, etc.
Now how many mortgages did he sell to FTBs based on nonsense figures ?

There are a lot more people who helped keep the bubble going, who helped move Fitzpatricks loan into and out of his and another financial institution, the ones who were meant to audit it, the ones in the regulator who supposedly knew about it for 7/8 years.
All of these people were not the CEOs, CFOs or on the boards.

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

nesf, the reason for that comment was I feel there seems to be a trend out there at the moment to blame all the problems in the banks and indeed in our entire economy on the people at the top and not anyone elses fault.
How many bank managers, mortgage sellers etc within the banks were happily tying people into huge mortgages.
Saying workers in banks deserve raises because it wasn't them but managers doing the dodgy deals is often disengenous.

My objection was to your characterisation of Bonkey as someone who approved of some of the dodgier activities of the Swiss banks. You can say all of that and more about Irish banks if you want, just don't get personal if someone decides to argue with you about it.

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

My objection was to your characterisation of Bonkey as someone who approved of some of the dodgier activities of the Swiss banks. You can say all of that and more about Irish banks if you want, just don't get personal if someone decides to argue with you about it.

Fair enough, I am not syaing bonkey condones banks hoarding Nazi looth or the fact that Swiss banks refused to release the funds deposited by holocaust victims to their surviving relatives.

I do take issue with the fact that he seems to believe Irish bankers, BOI in particular deserve their raises.