Advice re assault

currythis

I was attacked(along with a lot of other people including girls)last nite after the nightclubs closed in temple bar.
Was completely un-provoked,I just remember a guy running towards me and punching me to the ground and then he started kicking me as I lay there.it all gets quite hazy after this but aparently my head was stamped on a few times and i have the lumps and cuts on my head to beleive this.
All I wanted to do lastnight was get home so never even thought of reporting this to the gardai but now I after realising that this is going to cost me a trip to the doctors about my jaw(I cant eat and anything other then whispering is quite painful)I want to see if there is any chance of catching the idiots that did this to me.
Are there any Gardai on here that could tell me of the likellyhood of catching these guys,Cant remember much description wise but it may have been caught on CCTV or something.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Turner

Take a trip into Pearse St Garda Station (they cover temple bar, ringing up the station is useless), ask to speak to the duty sergeant.

Tell him what happened and he will allocate a garda to investigate and see if any cctv is available.

Between the Garda cameras and pubs cctv there are hundereds of cameras in templebar.

Even if he is caught on camera identifying the person (unless he is known to the gardai) might be very difficult.

Best of luck.

metman

Don't hang about, get yourself checked out by your Doctor/pop down to A&E asap. You could have suffered serious injury that isn't yet fully apparent. Also, medical evidence is valuable in progressing an assault case in the event suspect(s) are identified.

Trojan911

currythis wrote: »

but aparently my head was stamped on a few times and i have the lumps and cuts on my head to beleive this.

I don't normally reply to this forum anymore, however as Metman correctly states go & get yourself checked out at your local G.P or A&E. You may have sustained serious head injuries.

You may be referred for a CAT Scan to assess any potential swelling or internal bleeding to investigate your complaint.

Eru

Talk to the officer on front desk duty. The guys that hit you may have been arrested pending a complaint or for public order.

However if theres no record of the incident chances are its going to be a waste of time.

currythis

Thanks for advice lads,saw doctor and I have concussion apparently and a dislocated jaw(he reckons) I am waiting on x-ray results to confirm it.
Hopefully get into pearse street to report it tomorrow or saturday.
Thanks again!

Eru

currythis wrote: »

Thanks for advice lads,saw doctor and I have concussion apparently and a dislocated jaw(he reckons) I am waiting on x-ray results to confirm it.
Hopefully get into pearse street to report it tomorrow or saturday.
Thanks again!

This bugs the **** out of me, why have you not made the report by now? If your too busy or your assault is so low on your priority list do you honestly expect us to believe you will attend the station for statements, id parades and multiple court appearances?

What bloody chance have we got now of obtaining any evidence? Clothes are washed, suspect is washed, any bruising on his knuckles are gone, some cctv will have been wiped unless its a long term digital system which is not yet common, your memory of events will be a hell of a less reliable, probable wont be able to track witnesses.

sunnyjim

Chill out. He got stamped and punched, he's hardly going to be thinking straight.

donvito99

currythis wrote: »

Thanks for advice lads,saw doctor and I have concussion apparently and a dislocated jaw(he reckons) I am waiting on x-ray results to confirm it.
Hopefully get into pearse street to report it tomorrow or saturday.
Thanks again!

How'dya not notice the broken jaw, have you not eaten for a couple of days?

Ha, 369 posts

dredre

currythis wrote: »

Thanks for advice lads,saw doctor and I have concussion apparently and a dislocated jaw(he reckons) I am waiting on x-ray results to confirm it.
Hopefully get into pearse street to report it tomorrow or saturday.
Thanks again!

If you have a dislocated jaw you should be in hospital not waiting on x-ray results!

eroo

Completely off topic.. but what sypmtoms would indicate a very minor concussion?

Eru

sunnyjim wrote: »

Chill out. He got stamped and punched, he's hardly going to be thinking straight.

Why not? How do you think people are arrested and prosecuted? based on week old evidence taken from someone thats 'not thinking straight'? If you were seriously injured and hospitalised then yeah, point taken. But someone that has a few drinks, gets punched and then gets a taxi home? Sorry but that dog wont hunt.

The case will be cold, if the case actually goes somewhere the dpp wont run with it and if by some miracle they do the defence will rip it to shreds. Thats reality, harsh or not.

eroo wrote: »

Completely off topic.. but what sypmtoms would indicate a very minor concussion?

Spelling ERU wrong! :P

eroo

Eru wrote: »

Spelling ERU wrong! :P

Another symptom being not using caps when spelling it!:p

trentf

Seriously i dunno i've reported many things to the gaurds over the years and the general impression i get is in the past they simply weren't interested. Sure they'd take the details and so fourth but then they would hit you with the 'you'll have to testify in court son and do you really want that' you know kind of a couldn't be arsed investigating so i'll fob you off somehow. A bit more professionalism eh? Why would a case like this not be investigated? The guy is probably in a shattered state and nervous about what to do. He needs support and advice not a schoolmaster machoman lecture about the do's and don't's about the lateness of handing in reports. Your a police officer, not a lawyer. This is probably the first time he's dealt with such an issue and given the circumstances surely you can understand his aprehension.

Maybe the case won't go to dpp but thats not exactly what the general public wants to hear when they file a report or report an incident to be honest, especially after randomly having their face smashed in. If the public can't go to the police for help then what are they supposed to rely on, law of the jungle?

If it happened to a gaurd you can have no doubt they would be in court looking for their dues. I can personally vouch for that. People usually just want to know they are being looked after and that they can rely on the gaurds for protection and justice.

Sure we all understand its hard for the gaurds to go investigate an incident which has happened in the past but surely assualts should be taken more seriously. If this guy had died you'd be looking at a murder case not an assault. If police can't take this kind of reports seriously we have sunk to new lows in this country. Strikes me as though we have the system all wrong and that gaurds and probably rightly so feel aggrieved that they have to show up in court for every little assault reported. I dunno if they get paid for court appearances but maybe they should if not already being the case, maybe someone here can clarify this.

Gaurds should be allowed do their job and should be given the power to arrest and detain people based on the above, provided there is sufficent evidence. Too much paperwork and bureacracy is the problem at the moment.

Having said that i find that more recently they have improved and do take these things seriously and act more professionally in how they deal with the situation. I rang over an incident recently and they sent out a car immeadiately, took all the details and did a patrol of the area, caught the guy then came back to me, so seems like they have improved a lot in professionalism terms. I'd say go in and report it and give descriptions of the people. More then likely these people are hanging around the nightclub in question so there is a chance they can be nabbed if you or someone else can identify them again or if the gaurds can. If they send someone out on patrol they can check up on this.

metman

Before we get too critical here, let's not forget that currythis is saying, per his post, that he's a victim of crime looking for advice.

People should be encouraged to report this kind of thing, and if he has suffered a concussion its a little unfair to be overly critical as to his timing.

Serving types will understand the difficulty in collecting evidence/prosecuting where a lapse of time occurs, however we're only talking a few days here not weeks or months, and he's allegedly suffered a concussion, so I don't see what the issue is.

Currythis, if you're serious about taking action against the person who assaulted you, the sooner you make a formal complaint the better the chance that any remaining evidence can be collected.

Eru

trentf wrote: »

Seriously i dunno i've reported many things to the gaurds over the years and the general impression i get is in the past they simply weren't interested. Sure they'd take the details and so fourth but then they would hit you with the 'you'll have to testify in court son and do you really want that' you know kind of a couldn't be arsed investigating so i'll fob you off somehow.

Probable because 50% of the complaints I recieve the person never bothers their arses coming in to make a statement nevermind actually go to court which probable accounts for another 25%. I have had to get warrants from Judges in court for people simple because they decided after they got their property back or their wounds healed that they couldnt be bothered giving evidence. More again make a report then tell me "No I dont want to make a statement, can you not just deal with him? / Give him a caution?" Thats not how the justice system works. Exactly as I said before, a person that may or may not make a report today or tomorrow after leaving it a week does not come across as a reliable or particularily interested witness.

trentf wrote: »

This is probably the first time he's dealt with such an issue and given the circumstances surely you can understand his aprehension.

Not really. Apprehension of what? Does he think the Gardai will assault him again? I doubt it. I do not believe for 1 second that anyone honestly does not know that you report a crime asap. I genuinely cannot understand any sane and responsible adult not knowing this. In my experience late reports are only when insurance or civil compenasation kicks in and the person sees $ signs.

trentf wrote: »

Gaurds should be allowed do their job and should be given the power to arrest and detain people based on the above, provided there is sufficent evidence. Too much paperwork and bureacracy is the problem at the moment.

Thats not the point at all. The point is there will be little or no evidence still in existence as a result of the delay and the victim will not make it as a viable witness.

trentf wrote: »

Having said that i find that more recently they have improved and do take these things seriously and act more professionally in how they deal with the situation. I rang over an incident recently and they sent out a car immeadiately, took all the details and did a patrol of the area, caught the guy then came back to me, so seems like they have improved a lot in professionalism terms. I'd say go in and report it and give descriptions of the people. More then likely these people are hanging around the nightclub in question so there is a chance they can be nabbed if you or someone else can identify them again or if the gaurds can. If they send someone out on patrol they can check up on this.

The result came as a result of a speedy and reliable report being made. Trust me, when calls come in they get a viable response. A lot of time more than people realise but too much time is wasted chasing lost causes for the reasons mentioned.

As for what the public want to hear, Im sorry do you want us to police and deal with criminals or fill out a customer service questionaire?

trentf

Eru wrote: »

Probable because 50% of the complaints I recieve the person never bothers their arses coming in to make a statement nevermind actually go to court which probable accounts for another 25%. I have had to get warrants from Judges in court for people simple because they decided after they got their property back or their wounds healed that they couldnt be bothered giving evidence. More again make a report then tell me "No I dont want to make a statement, can you not just deal with him? / Give him a caution?" Thats not how the justice system works. Exactly as I said before, a person that may or may not make a report today or tomorrow after leaving it a week does not come across as a reliable or particularily interested witness.

i agree the system is all messed up. Its not gaurds fault for this and is obviously causing an overburdening of tasks and court appearances over simple issues. Policies need to be changed from the top level. Seems like there's a lot of resistance is put on the shoulders of the rank and file in regards to this. The whole issue of court apperances for gaurds needs to be re-examined. Payment could be an option although i'd be in favour of scrapping this whole antiquated system altogether.

Not really. Apprehension of what? Does he think the Gardai will assault him again? I doubt it. I do not believe for 1 second that anyone honestly does not know that you report a crime asap. I genuinely cannot understand any sane and responsible adult not knowing this. In my experience late reports are only when insurance or civil compenasation kicks in and the person sees $ signs.


As for what the public want to hear, Im sorry do you want us to police and deal with criminals or fill out a customer service questionaire?

So reporting an assualt is now akin to filling out a customer service questionnaire? Comon and reporting an assault is dealing with criminals if you think about it.

A lot of time more than people realise but too much time is wasted chasing lost causes for the reasons mentioned.

Thats the problem the general public aren't supposed to be thinking about reporting crime to police. They do it, thats what police are there for. If you cannot report an assault to the police who can you go to? Its not the general publics job to question themselves as to wheither reporting an assault is problematic for the gardai to handle its their job simply to report an assault in the best interests of public safety and their own safety.

Its the handling mechansims internally within the gaurds for reporting such issues and the interaction with the court system that seems to be the problem here and that needs to be changed.

That would kill a lot of timewasters etc and free up gaurds time to investigate these issues(which im sure they want to do) rather then the current mechanism which obviously involves numerous hours sitting behind a desk, filling up forms and having to sit through court appearances. Too much burden on rank and file members again causing them to be resistant to what are legitimate reports through no fault of their own. It obviously doesn't have the checks and balances in place to deal with timewasters and allows for scenarios to occur as you outline. Its not the gaurds or the general public to blame but the quite clearly antiquated system in place.

Not really. Apprehension of what? Does he think the Gardai will assault him again? I doubt it. I do not believe for 1 second that anyone honestly does not know that you report a crime asap. I genuinely cannot understand any sane and responsible adult not knowing this. In my experience late reports are only when insurance or civil compenasation kicks in and the person sees $ signs.

Bear in mind this person doesn't deal with criminals on a daily basis as part of his job and being assaulted is not a common part of his experiences i would presume, could be wrong. So that's why he's asking for advice here in the first place.

I do not believe for 1 second that anyone honestly does not know that you report a crime asap.

The guys priority was probably to get himself checked out for injuries and then he was also in shock. Its a bit of a blanket statement to say that everyone who doesn't report a crime, especially an assault immeadiately is in full control of their faculites. Im not fully aware of all what happened as wasn't clear from all his postings.

trentf

it doesnt reflect badly on the gardai i didn't say it did. Read through the post again. Its about bettering the system so that there is less confusion and less levels of bureacracy with regard to making reports such as the original poster outline. Most people i assume would be favor of that as it would make the job of gaurds and civillians alike easer, and in the end of the day isn't that what we all want?

trentf

Yes thats the bit you were reading based on experiences but you can also read the rest. We can all pick and choose choice words out of conversations. Its important to read a debate point in its entirety...context and all that. Payment for the gaurds obviously is what i was referring to.

fermoyboy

Gardai do get paid for going to court. If off-duty they get over-time, if on duty it's normal work.

I've read the whole thread and I don't see where the courts are the problem for the Gardai when it comes to investigating crimes???

Simply, the quicker an incident is reported then the quicker it can be investigated fully with more chance of a succesful outcome.

Eru

trentf wrote: »

it doesnt reflect badly on the gardai i didn't say it did. Read through the post again. Its about bettering the system so that there is less confusion and less levels of bureacracy with regard to making reports such as the original poster outline. Most people i assume would be favor of that as it would make the job of gaurds and civillians alike easer, and in the end of the day isn't that what we all want?

Please explain how your getting this from whats being said in this thread? Its perfectly simple. we work our justice system on the Blackstone theory which I happen to agree with. Crime leads to report leads to investigation leads to court leads to conviction.

If step A is delayed then the chain gets weaker at every stage especially for stage B where to add to lost evidence you have victims who want actually help convict the person that attacked them. It has nothing to do with our court system. Its very very simple down to erosion of evidence as a result of a delay on the victims part. I fail to see whats confusing about it. If you dont report it we cant investigate it and evidence does not last forever.

Theres enough shows on TV for people to have some idea how investigations and evidence collecting works plus again, why such a delay? The OP wasnt in a coma, your all getting carried away with his injuries here. There was absolutely no reason why the Gardai could not have been contacted the next day at the latest but instead he waited, then instead of going to a Garda station and asking he came to an internet site to ask. Was told to make a report andc seek medical assistance but yet still waited another few days.

Last we heard he 'might' wander into the station at some stage over the next few days. Come on, are you seriously suggesting this assault not getting a conviction is down to the a failing on the systems part????

When all is said and done, if your the victim of crime its my job to assist you wherever possible but ultimately your the victim not me and you need to help me help you.

BTW, if you broke your arm at home would you stay at home and 'maybe' go to hospital a week later? No, you would call an ambulance or at least see a doctor. If your house is on fire how long do you wait before ringing the fire brigade? You dont. You lose your phone your straight into Vodafone, etc. If your tv reception goes your onto Sky straightaway. You dont just keep paying your bill until eventually you manage to tell them. The list goes on and for people to suggest they didnt know to make a report asap is insulting to all our intelligence.

trentf

In the guy's original query he never mentioned he was going to report it he simply asked the gardai for their professional advice about what the chances are if they could catch the guys, then you went off on the guy.

Whats with the aggression? If you acted like that in a stationhouse, its no wonder people won't come near the place for advice or to report a crime. You should be encouraging people to report 'legtimate' crime not disauding them because you have paperwork to do. You should be happy hes asking for advice from law enforcement and not taking matters into his own hands as so many people tend to do nowadays.

Would you bollick the guy there too if he did report it on time? Like i said a little bit more professionalism. We all understand that dealing with the public isn't the easiest of tasks always, however, police are paid by the very same taxpayers to do a job and be supportive towards the general public not be on a bullypulpit. Remember that.

TheNog

trentf wrote: »

In the guy's original query he never mentioned he was going to report it he simply asked the gardai for their professional advice about what the chances are if they could catch the guys, then you went off on the guy.

Whats with the aggression? If you acted like that in a stationhouse, its no wonder people won't come near the place for advice or to report a crime. You should be encouraging people to report 'legtimate' crime not disauding them because you have paperwork to do. You should be happy hes asking for advice from law enforcement and not taking matters into his own hands as so many people tend to do nowadays.

Would you bollick the guy there too if he did report it on time? Like i said a little bit more professionalism. We all understand that dealing with the public isn't the easiest of tasks always, however, police are paid by the very same taxpayers to do a job and be supportive towards the general public not be on a bullypulpit. Remember that.

You are getting the wrong end of the stick here. Eru is posting out of frustration of people who turn up at a station a week or two later and expecting us to work miracles and the usual complaint in the pub later is

because you have paperwork to do

I tend to agree with Eru as it is frustrating and sometimes you feel that people tend not to think about these things at all. However yes the OP came on here asking for advice and yes he should have reported asap even when he was still recovering from his injuries. The suspected offender I'd imagine is not someone of high standing nor of good morals so will do this again cos he got away with it the first time. Another person will be injured maybe seriously next time and this is where the frustration on our part comes in, We do not want other people getting injured cos of this scrote!!!

trentf

TheNog wrote: »

You are getting the wrong end of the stick here. Eru is posting out of frustration of people who turn up at a station a week or two later and expecting us to work miracles and the usual complaint in the pub later is



I tend to agree with Eru as it is frustrating and sometimes you feel that people tend not to think about these things at all. However yes the OP came on here asking for advice and yes he should have reported asap even when he was still recovering from his injuries. The suspected offender I'd imagine is not someone of high standing nor of good morals so will do this again cos he got away with it the first time. Another person will be injured maybe seriously next time and this is where the frustration on our part comes in, We do not want other people getting injured cos of this scrote!!!

Fair enough point taken, i know the type people your referring too

deadwood

trentf wrote: »

Whats with the aggression? If you acted like that in a stationhouse, its no wonder people won't come near the place for advice or to report a crime.

Now you're getting the idea!:D

cossworxenergy

Me and a friend were assaulted in town badly one night while it was happening i rang the cops at some stage. They came out and started giving out I was drunk and if i dont leave the are I WOULD BE ARRESTED. So i left anyways and went home told me dad ex garda he was furious told me to go in make complaint of assault. Was STUNNED when they told me if i proceeded with this complaint I WOULD BE CHARGED WITH DRUNK AND DISORDERLY. So got badge numbers off two copsrang the super and they were left red faced to saythe least. People who assaulted me were guards!!

metman

cossworxenergy wrote: »

Me and a friend were assaulted in town badly one night while it was happening i rang the cops at some stage. They came out and started giving out I was drunk and if i dont leave the are I WOULD BE ARRESTED. So i left anyways and went home told me dad ex garda he was furious told me to go in make complaint of assault. Was STUNNED when they told me if i proceeded with this complaint I WOULD BE CHARGED WITH DRUNK AND DISORDERLY. So got badge numbers off two copsrang the super and they were left red faced to saythe least. People who assaulted me were guards!!

So did you proceed with your complaint in the end?

Did you get charged?

What was the result?

Why were the Gardai left red-faced?

How did you find out your assailants were Gardai?

Could you be more vague?

cossworxenergy

Of course i proceeded with complaint.
Lack of CCTV and my word against two garda so i withrew complaint.
I knew my assailants were guards through a contact. I was not charged. The garda who dealth with the call were summoned to the inspectors office the following morning is all i can say. I not going to get into details for obvious reasons.
I have huge respect for the Gardai in general in case you think I am anti-garda. They do a great job at most of times. I was just highlighting my case and not branding all garda incompetant. Afterall most of my family and friends are Garda.

Eru

cossworxenergy wrote: »

Of course i proceeded with complaint.
Lack of CCTV and my word against two garda so i withrew complaint.
I knew my assailants were guards through a contact. I was not charged. The garda who dealth with the call were summoned to the inspectors office the following morning is all i can say. I not going to get into details for obvious reasons.
I have huge respect for the Gardai in general in case you think I am anti-garda. They do a great job at most of times. I was just highlighting my case and not branding all garda incompetant. Afterall most of my family and friends are Garda.

If your father didnt understand why a drunks complaint wasnt taken then he must have retured at least 20 years ago. We cannot take complaints from people that are intoxicated, simple as. Its not our rule, its the justice systems.

The Gardai in question were spoken to about the investigation but yet the Gardai that commited the crime were protected or would have been? That makes no sense. Either the Inspector would have dealt with the whole thing or he wouldnt and if you withdrew your complaint then you should be charged with wasting police time

cossworxenergy

The Gardai in question were spoken to about the investigation but yet the Gardai that commited the crime were protected or would have been? That makes no sense. Either the Inspector would have dealt with the whole thing or he wouldnt and if you withdrew your complaint then you should be charged with wasting police time[/quote]

I dont know why you would dispute what happened to me but it happened and ive forgotten about it. I didnt withdraw the complaint as such I simply left it up to them to deal with. So they never proceeded with it and Ihave since gotten no contact from them nor would i wish to. Also I was not "drunk" although if you have 4 pints you would indeed be classed as intoxicated by yourselves. The inspector more or less just gave them a telling off and they were told they would be watched. Thats all that mattered to me that they wouldnt continue to cary out their duties in such a disrespectful manner to An Garda Siochana and the good workers of the force. I didnt care about being assaulted I probably deserved it and that wasnt the problem. My problem was the pure and utter thickness of these two garda when I needed help. I called them to stop my friend being battered down a lane with me. I didnt want an investigation. Wastin police time are you for real?? You dont know anything about what happened and you come out with that. Its that one mindedness that you need to get away from. What about common courtesy. Thats the problem with the younger Garda these days. Pure thick with authority and no understanding or common sense with dealing with people. Yet if you meet a guard about 30-40 maybe a sergeant on the beet and they are the most genuine people you would meet. The young gardai havent a clue. This is just my opinion.

AlekSmart

Also I was not "drunk" although if you have 4 pints you would indeed be classed as intoxicated by yourselves.

Ahhhh....The €64,000 Question and it`s answer all in a single sentence......:)