This Sunderland thing

Iang87

Can someone explain to me this new thing that is the support for Sunderland?
This has probably been done to death but i've never seen it so i'm just wondering as to what the emphatuation is.

I mean in irish media and irish soccer fans just wondering what started it all and why it grew

_blank_

Er..

Niall Quinn and the rest of his cronies owning the club, Roy Keane being the manager for a while and all the Irish players.

May have had something to do with it.

What sickens me the most is the "fans" heading off on weekend trips to see them, paying all that money to "support the Irish". :rolleyes:

Or people pretending to be interested in them because of the "Irish connection" or "I like to see Irish do well" or "I'd support anything Irish" - yeah, apart from actual Irish football teams that is.



Support the Irish at home ffs.

zAbbo

You're about 12-18 months late on this thread, as there's probably less support for Sunderland now, but a quick run down (and I'm sure you know this?)

Owned by an Irish consortium
Chairman is Irish
Manager was Irish
Had a number of Irish players on the books
Sponsored by an Irish company

Iang87

Ya i know about the quinn and keane thing clearly but why people actually spend their money going to see them is the part that baffles me. Along with seeing people wearing sunderland shirts around.

Just confuses me as to why the irish went insane for them. Liverpool are owned by americans and sponsored by Danish. Why dont thousands of americans and danes come see Liverpool. similarly with united why dont they have huge american support.

I'm wondering as to why the irish went crazy for them 12 - 18 months ago

_blank_

Iang87 wrote: »

Ya i know about the quinn and keane thing clearly but why people actually spend their money going to see them is the part that baffles me. Along with seeing people wearing sunderland shirts around

Actually.

I've probably seen one Sunderland jersey around the place. It was about a year ago, in Fairview, on a yunfella of about 15.

But yeah. I've seen and heard grown men going off on their little trips with their golf buddies.

It's actually hilarious how the marketing machine suckered them in.

I mean, Sunderland are shíte compared to the product they could be consuming over on the mainland.

zAbbo

Iang87 wrote: »

Ya i know about the quinn and keane thing clearly but why people actually spend their money going to see them is the part that baffles me. Along with seeing people wearing sunderland shirts around

Probably because when Sunderland got promoted to the Premier League, people were more willing to travel over to see them play Man U, Liverpool or Arsenal than championship teams - everyone likes to be part of a success.

Mr. Presentable

Iang87 wrote: »

I'm wondering as to why the irish went crazy for them 12 - 18 months ago

Lack of imagination

Call Me Jimmy

Because they are interested in Roy Keane/Niall Quinn/Andy Reid/David Connolly/having a 'second' premiership team etc. etc. It's quite simple really...

_blank_

and a marketing campaign.

Quinner doing the rounds of LoI grounds under the guise of "helping out".

zAbbo

Iang87 wrote: »

Just confuses me as to why the irish went insane for them. Liverpool are owned by americans and sponsored by Danish. Why dont thousands of americans and danes come see Liverpool. similarly with united why dont they have huge american support.

You're being pedantic now, Carlsberg and AIG are global companies, while Boylesports are based in Dundalk and only had a national market.

Regardless, there is no affiliation to the sponsor, but why do you think there are so many Liverpool and ManU fans here in Ireland? because people have a connection with them, be it success, Irish players, proximity, relations etc.

ntlbell

Des wrote: »

Er..

Niall Quinn, the rest of his cronies, Roy Keane being the manager for a while and all the Irish players.

May have had something to do with it.

What sickens me the most is the "fans" heading off on weekend trips to see them, paying all that money to "support the Irish". :rolleyes:

Support the Irish at home ffs.

most are going to have a bit of craic, have a few pints and watch a decent game of football and get away for the weekend.

They're not going as a charity gig to Sunderland.

They don't get a % of the usually 0.01e on the ryanair ticket.

nor do they get a % of the very cheap hotel rates

nor do they get a % of the very cheap local beer.

Your constant bashing of people going around enjoying themselves but not doing it in this country! is getting very tiresome.

_blank_

ntlbell wrote: »

watch a decent game of football

lol, just lol.

Sunderland are fúcking shíte.

GuanYin

Let us not go the usual EL vs. EPL route, it gets boring.


I would imagine the reason people go is to see EPL soccer, get a cheap weekend away and because of the hero worship for Niall Quinn and Roy Keane that exists/existed.

I do notice that the boards.ie support has dropped since Keane walked out (not sent home this time ).

ntlbell

GuanYin wrote: »

I do notice that the boards.ie support has dropped since Keane walked out (not sent home this time ).

there is no doubt about it.

it was really nothing to do with niall or any of the irish lads there

people were interested in roy there's nothing more to it.

if roy starts playing water polo for the ballygowan squad I'll go see him.

Gavin "shels"

It's called a bandwagon, and the majority of Irish football fans are top notch at jumping on and off such things.:rolleyes:

ntlbell

Gavin shels wrote: »

It's called a bandwagon, and the majority of Irish football fans are top notch at jumping on and off such things.:rolleyes:

Said one irish football fan to the other.

jaykay74

I had one interest in Sunderland and that was to see how Roy Keane got on as a manager. I had no interest before Keane took over and I have no interest in how they do now since he left.

stovelid

When they beat Spurs on their return to the top flight, I watched the match in Sinnotts or somewhere like that. I had deep, deep fears for a new Ole-Ole Reich that day, looking at the amount of people there going nuts over them, but support definitely seems to have tailed off recently. The cancelled friendly against Rovers wasn't exactly oversubscribed.

Relegation battles, 7-1 hidings and Roy f*cking off isn't really part of the script for casual Irish football fans, I guess.

Quint

Gavin shels wrote: »

It's called a bandwagon

nail on the head!

djpbarry

Iang87 wrote: »

Can someone explain to me this new thing that is the support for Sunderland?

Bandwagon: a popular trend that attracts growing support.

GuanYin wrote: »

I would imagine the reason people go is to see EPL soccer, get a cheap weekend away...

Of course it’s cheap - it's fúcking Sunderland.

joe123

Im not slating here or looking for an argument. But going over to watch EPL football you will get better quality football than you would in the loi.

Sunderland maybe ****e but theyd beat any loi side. I wish it was different but it aint.

+1 on the bandwagon thing too. Its really annoying. The Irish Rugby team become good everyone seems to love rugby. Munster win the Heiniken cup everyone starts supporting munster.

The Irish soccer team start doing bad no one can give a **** but of course theyl watch them if there playing Italy in the world cup.

Its annoying but that mentality will never change.

_blank_

joe123 wrote: »

Im not slating here or looking for an argument. But going over to watch EPL football you will get better quality football than you would in the loi.

Sunderland maybe ****e but theyd beat any loi side. I wish it was different but it aint.

And nobody is saying any different, those that do are idiots.

ntlbell

joe123 wrote: »

Im not slating here or looking for an argument. But going over to watch EPL football you will get better quality football than you would in the loi.

Sunderland maybe ****e but theyd beat any loi side. I wish it was different but it aint.

+1 on the bandwagon thing too. Its really annoying. The Irish Rugby team become good everyone seems to love rugby. Munster win the Heiniken cup everyone starts supporting munster.

The Irish soccer team start doing bad no one can give a **** but of course theyl watch them if there playing Italy in the world cup.

Its annoying but that mentality will never change.

why does it annoy you tho?

Why is how someone who has no corrolation to you enjoying their life the way they want to harm you in anyway?

you don't have to be a fanatic to enjoy something.

It's the same as when wibledon used to come on TV and then every second road in the country has kids on it playing tennis (prob not as much now)

your putting it in peoples mind's there's a lot of hype generated etc.

Rugby becoming popular is good for the sport i would have thought?

I know I have watched a lot more rugby in the last few years it has nothing to do with munster or ireland I just slowly learned more about it and started to find it enjoyable and will now watch an occasional match were before I wouldn't how is this a bad thing?

people coming together and enjoying sport etc for whatever the reasons is only a good thing.

nothing bad can come of it.

If people want to go away for a weekend and enjoy a few nights out and a game of ball in another country fair fu*ks to them.

can someone explain why people jumping on a bandwagon having a bit of craic and enjoying themselves is a negative thing?

i'm all ears.

ctrl-alt-delete

They are no longer owned by an Irish Consortium in any case, a Texan is now the major shareholder - one of the reasons why Keane walked out.

I go over there a lot - because my girlfriend is from the area and is a season ticket holder. I enjoy going to the games - and one of the main reasons is the atmosphere, i've never experienced anything like it - and ive been to many a sporting event on both sides of the water.

Id much rather go over and watch most premier league teams than stay t home here and watch an irish club team.

For those saying it's a Marketing thing - at least it is one that works -
the League at home here has never made a success of marketing itself, and to shoot down success at drawing fans across the water to watch a team, when irish league clubs cant get the numbers up with fans only having to walk or hop on a bus is a bit stupid.

I knew we'd have the same old irish league fans in here saying it was a bandwagon and to stay at home and be a "real" fan - it's that kind of ****e that makes me have no interest in the set up over here. It's a terrible league across the board.

_blank_

Excellent post, and there are some things which I'll take from it, if you don't mind

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I go over there a lot - because my girlfriend is from the area and is a season ticket holder.

So, you have some link to the area.

If it wasn't for the other half, you probably wouldn't have ever went, right?

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I enjoy going to the games - and one of the main reasons is the atmosphere, i've never experienced anything like it - and ive been to many a sporting event on both sides of the water.

OK, this is fairly subjective.

I've been on Hill 16 during a Dublin championship run.

I've been to Ireland games in the early 90s.

I've been regularly (full season) to Sydney FC games in the A-League.

I've been at single football matches all over the world (in fact, I'm going to Berlin in May to see a game, so people "going foreign" to watch football is not something I disagree with, not in the slightest).

I'm a regular at Tolka Park.

I much prefer the atmosphere in Tolka Park to anything else I've ever experienced. That is the truth, even with 500 people there, it just feels better.

Why? Becasue I am a part of it, I am this club. It affects me if they win, in ways people who watch their team on the TV don't understand. The people around me know me, I know them.

Now people can call bullshít on that, but it's the way I feel.

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Id much rather go over and watch most premier league teams than stay t home here and watch an irish club team.

If I was travelling to the mainland on a regular basis to watch football, I'd choose the best product on offer, Manchester United, Arsenal.

Sure, the whole of the EPL is a better "product" than the LoI, but I don't go to the LoI for product.

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

For those saying it's a Marketing thing - at least it is one that works -
the League at home here has never made a success of marketing itself, and to shoot down success at drawing fans across the water to watch a team, when irish league clubs cant get the numbers up with fans only having to walk or hop on a bus is a bit stupid.

One hundred percent, bang on, the LoI is a fúcking shambles at the moment, and I hate it. Falling from one fúck up to the next, I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into it right now. It would be nice if people did, it might make some of the financial problems go away, but the way it is run by those incompetent gobshítes in Abbotstown, with their propaganda and lies, I don't blame a single soul for not coming near it.

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I knew we'd have the same old irish league fans in here saying it was a bandwagon and to stay at home and be a "real" fan - it's that kind of ****e that makes me have no interest in the set up over here. It's a terrible league across the board.

But it is a bandwagon, of course it is.

Dun laoire

The truth is nobody ever went to Sunderland. Instead they fecked off up to Newcastle and did bold things to their women. Sunderland was just a smokescreen.

Diabhal Beag

I'm a Sunderland fan.

A. My father was from Newcastle and supported them.

B. Kevin Kilbane played some great football there.

C. I'm the world's biggest Sean Thornton fan.

D. Roy Keane

I don't understand the dislike shown to us. Sunderland came to Ireland 2 years ago and played 3 clubs ( I think). If you're going to start accusing anyone of supporting ****e teams why don't you go after Irish Bolton fans.

ntlbell

Des wrote: »

Why? Becasue I am a part of it, I am this club. It affects me if they win, in ways people who watch their team on the TV don't understand. The people around me know me, I know them.

Now people can call bullshít on that, but it's the way I feel.

I call BS on it for the simple fact you can't claim to know how other people feel when a team win/loses/draws regardless of where they watch the match.

des wrote:

But it is a bandwagon, of course it is.

again i ask why is it a bad/negative thing?

joe123

ntlbell wrote: »

why does it annoy you tho?

Why is how someone who has no corrolation to you enjoying their life the way they want to harm you in anyway?

you don't have to be a fanatic to enjoy something.

It's the same as when wibledon used to come on TV and then every second road in the country has kids on it playing tennis (prob not as much now)

your putting it in peoples mind's there's a lot of hype generated etc.

Rugby becoming popular is good for the sport i would have thought?

I know I have watched a lot more rugby in the last few years it has nothing to do with munster or ireland I just slowly learned more about it and started to find it enjoyable and will now watch an occasional match were before I wouldn't how is this a bad thing?

people coming together and enjoying sport etc for whatever the reasons is only a good thing.

nothing bad can come of it.

If people want to go away for a weekend and enjoy a few nights out and a game of ball in another country fair fu*ks to them.

can someone explain why people jumping on a bandwagon having a bit of craic and enjoying themselves is a negative thing?

i'm all ears.

No im all for sport I love most forms of it apart from my growing dislike for the gaa simply because of the red neck attitude here in the west regards to that and the "foreign sports".

Apart from that Im delighted to see Rugby do well.

And ive no problem at all with people going over watching games etc sure im a massive Liverpool fan and i admit ive little interest in the loi but thats simply down to not really having a local club or being brought up in the loi environment.

But what annoys me is when you have these "bandwagoners" who used be massive football fans and you ask them are they going watching the georgia game and they reply with a what game? or a "yeah I might". They dont give a ****e even though its such an important game. Yet if were playing in a more high profile match or tournament theyl be the biggest fans known to mankind.

Itl happen with the rugby too. Once the star starts to fade and times get tough theyl move on to something else. A supporter at the end of the day is there to support. Through thick and thin.

Id happily admit I dont know alot about rugby but id def watch the games as its Ireland involved and would have more interest now than i would if we were really struggling but I wouldnt act as if I was always a whole hearted fan of the sport.

ntlbell

joe123 wrote: »

No im all for sport I love most forms of it apart from my growing dislike for the gaa simply because of the red neck attitude here in the west regards to that and the "foreign sports".

Apart from that Im delighted to see Rugby do well.

And ive no problem at all with people going over watching games etc sure im a massive Liverpool fan and i admit ive little interest in the loi but thats simply down to not really having a local club or being brought up in the loi environment.

But what annoys me is when you have these "bandwagoners" who used be massive football fans and you ask them are they going watching the georgia game and they reply with a what game? or a "yeah I might". They dont give a ****e even though its such an important game. Yet if were playing in a more high profile match or tournament theyl be the biggest fans known to mankind.

Itl happen with the rugby too. Once the star starts to fade and times get tough theyl move on to something else. A supporter at the end of the day is there to support. Through thick and thin.

Id happily admit I dont know alot about rugby but id def watch the games as its Ireland involved and would have more interest now than i would if we were really struggling but I wouldnt act as if I was always a whole hearted fan of the sport.

right so you have a low threshold for morons.

everyone does.

but it's nothing to do with sport really

people are like that about everything.

djpbarry

Des wrote: »

One hundred percent, bang on, the LoI is a fúcking shambles at the moment, and I hate it. Falling from one fúck up to the next, I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into it right now.

Hang on there now Des. Granted, many Irish clubs have been run in an unsustainable manner in the last number of years. But if that were to be used as a valid excuse not to support a team, then most sides in England would have crap attendances. I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, there were 3 sides in League 2 who began this season with a negative points total. But of course, it’s not the Premiership, so these things don’t get noticed.

ctrl-alt-delete

Des wrote: »

So, you have some link to the area.

If it wasn't for the other half, you probably wouldn't have ever went, right?

You are right there, i probably wouldn't have gone to Sunderland no, i am a Blackburn fan myself.

The thing is though once i went there i was hooked, even as a Blackburn fan.The key is that i have gotten into a routine. I enjoy going to Sunderland games, i enjoy travelling over there, i enjoy listening to the radio show build up in the car driving to the stadium. Then obviously the game itself and all that entails.

Getting people hooked is how you get the numbers up and progress whatever club it may be. Others again have been giving Quinn and Sunderland stick for masquerading a cut in tickets as doing a good deed for the fans, when under the blanket of it all it is Marketing.

Of course it is Marketing, and again i feel this is going to be a really successfull move for them. Getting the kids hooked and feeling like i was above at an early age will only be good for the future of the club.

£19 pound for a season ticket holder to get a child a season ticket is unbelieveable value.

Des wrote: »

OK, this is fairly subjective.

You are right with it being fairly subjective alright, and to tie into what you said after this, is that its all about what you get from it. For me the best atmosphere i've ever witnessed was the Sunderland v Newcastle game this season, the tension walking to the ground, and just the sheer noise and constant amount of it during the game was immense, but i totally believe that you can get that same atmosphere with 500 people at tolka.

Des wrote: »

One hundred percent, bang on, the LoI is a fúcking shambles at the moment, and I hate it. Falling from one fúck up to the next, I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into it right now. It would be nice if people did, it might make some of the financial problems go away, but the way it is run by those incompetent gobshítes in Abbotstown, with their propaganda and lies, I don't blame a single soul for not coming near it.

I admire your honesty there, i don't know how feesable it is, but the LoI needs to set itself up and break away from the Fai as much as they can. Obviously not totally. You need people like yourself with a love for the Local game running the show and hopefully coming up with systems to get the numbers up - because thats where it needs to start - thats where the major money comes from in a league like that.

Des wrote: »

But it is a bandwagon, of course it is.

I suppose it is, but i don't have any particular hatred for bandwagons to be honest.

Collie D

It's not too recent a phenomenon. I started following their progress more closely a few years ago when one of my neighbours who I used to play against reguilarly signed for them. Was nice to see a local lad up against players like Gerrard, Keane, Vieira etc. Have had an interest in them since but wouldn't particularly call myself a fan

djpbarry

ntlbell wrote: »

again i ask why is it a bad/negative thing?

Because the LOI needs bums on seats to progress. It can be extremely frustrating when trying to convince someone to attend a domestic game and they come up with every excuse they can possibly think of to avoid attending. And yet, the same person will head off to a game across the water at the drop of a hat (and at a considerable expense to themselves, might I add). I really don't have a problem with people attending games elsewhere - I can understand why people would want to go to Old Trafford, the Nou Camp, the San Siro, etc. It's the constant dismissal of football in this country that can be frustrating.

Jazzy

Des wrote: »

Er..

Niall Quinn and the rest of his cronies owning the club, Roy Keane being the manager for a while and all the Irish players.

May have had something to do with it.

What sickens me the most is the "fans" heading off on weekend trips to see them, paying all that money to "support the Irish". :rolleyes:

Or people pretending to be interested in them because of the "Irish connection" or "I like to see Irish do well" or "I'd support anything Irish" - yeah, apart from actual Irish football teams that is.



Support the Irish at home ffs.

sounds to me like a lot of clever business men taking advantage of the incompetence of the FAIl
i dunno, cant hate ppl for being smart.

Jazzy

ntlbell wrote: »

Your constant bashing of people going around enjoying themselves but not doing it in this country! is getting very tiresome.

have to give ya thanks for that one. so true. if ppl want to be entertained, let them choose how they do it

ntlbell

djpbarry wrote: »

Because the LOI needs bums on seats to progress. It can be extremely frustrating when trying to convince someone to attend a domestic game and they come up with every excuse they can possibly think of to avoid attending. And yet, the same person will head off to a game across the water at the drop of a hat (and at a considerable expense to themselves, might I add). I really don't have a problem with people attending games elsewhere - I can understand why people would want to go to Old Trafford, the Nou Camp, the San Siro, etc. It's the constant dismissal of football in this country that can be frustrating.

what has LOI needing bums on seats got to do with casual supporters going to see football they want to see once or twice a year?

the majority don't want to go to LOI games because the standard of football is awful.

the same person will go on a weekend away with a crowd for the weekend away and to go on the beer and take in a match with generally some of the best footballers in Europe.

The constant dismissal like we need to go over it again is usually the standard is awful and it is.

Your not going to convert a casual traveller to old trafford to a weekly regular to the LOI (there will be a few exceptions but in general)

so these casual fans going over for the craic are not really lost buisness for LOI clubs.

so my point is this

casual/bandwagon jumpers cause no real harm to irish football.

your saying LOI need bums on seats but it's not the casual goer to old trafford that's reducing the bums on seat they're the least of your worries.

herbieflowers

yawn, the ol' chestnut resurfaces under another guise...

invincibleirish

Its no ones business but self which club one supports.

You don't have to follow the club most local to you because some keyboard warrior said so.

You don't have to partake in the club bingo, buy the raffle tickets, raise money and go to the end of year dinner dance in order to be a supporter.

you are not a bad person or not in way less irish because of the football club you support.

LoI fans on here whats your beef? every thread we have the same suspects with the sly digs at those who follow EPL teams, you are not real fans just because you say so and you are not representative of all LoI fans, you just sound like cranky old men and you do not represent real fans, **** off to foot.ie if you want to bitch about the epl.

Sunderland are useless

themont85

Hilarious all the EL fans coming straight on to this thread to bash Sunderland. The hatred of them because they took Irish investment, some casual fans and most of all get more intrest as people's second or third club than most people pay attention than to the EL. Lads, be honest, its not as if Charlie Chawke ect were diverting their investment from the EL to Sunderland. They would never have put the money into an EL club because they would have made no money and got less of a kick out of it.

And bashing Sunderland for coming over and playing some pre season friendlies against EL teams? Of course being cynical you chaps don't like it because you see that when they come there's a bit more intrest and Sunderland know by doing so they might get a few more fans over to the SOL. Well, Sunderland didn't have to come and play your team. I'm sure the various clubs appreciated the extra revenue they got and the fans indirectly by the extra players you signed because of it. The EL clubs needed Sunderland more than Sunderland needed the EL.

Its getting tiresome all the Sunderland bashing.

Its like a guy looking at another guy, who they see as not as good looking as themselves, yet with a better looking girlfriend and then bitching to their friends about it instead of getting up of their ass and trying to get the better looking bird.

Sunderland are liked for a multitude of reasons. Bandwagoning comes into it, of course. But why all the hatred of the word, the connatations of it are feared by some. Human beings all have, by nature, a disposition to it. Even the great EL fans. Don't deny you've never being sucked into something because of media hype or because you knew somebody getting bigged up.

ntlbell

themont85 wrote: »

Hilarious all the EL fans coming straight on to this thread to bash Sunderland. The hatred of them because they took Irish investment, some casual fans and most of all get more intrest as people's second or third club than most people pay attention than to the EL. Lads, be honest, its not as if Charlie Chawke ect were diverting their investment from the EL to Sunderland. They would never have put the money into an EL club because they would have made no money and got less of a kick out of it.

And bashing Sunderland for coming over and playing some pre season friendlies against EL teams? Of course being cynical you chaps don't like it because you see that when they come there's a bit more intrest and Sunderland know by doing so they might get a few more fans over to the SOL. Well, Sunderland didn't have to come and play your team. I'm sure the various clubs appreciated the extra revenue they got and the fans indirectly by the extra players you signed because of it. The EL clubs needed Sunderland more than Sunderland needed the EL.

Its getting tiresome all the Sunderland bashing.

Its like a guy looking at another guy, who they see as not as good looking as themselves, yet with a better looking girlfriend and then bitching to their friends about it instead of getting up of their ass and trying to get the better looking bird.

Sunderland are liked for a multitude of reasons. Bandwagoning comes into it, of course. But why all the hatred of the word, the connatations of it are feared by some. Human beings all have, by nature, a disposition to it. Even the great EL fans. Don't deny you've never being sucked into something because of media hype or because you knew somebody getting bigged up.

excellent post.

prob futile tho.

djpbarry

ntlbell wrote: »

the majority don't want to go to LOI games because the standard of football is awful.

That's a little harsh, but I'm not going to go into it. The standard is obviously poor compared to the EPL - anyone who goes to a LOI game expecting the same standard of football as they would see at the Emirates or Old Trafford is an idiot. But the point is that the standard does not have to be the best in the world for the game to be entertaining. The Scottish League is a case in point. The standard of football on display in the Edinburgh derby is pretty poor compared to the EPL, but that doesn't mean that the game (and atmosphere) cannot be entertaining.

ntlbell wrote: »

Your not going to convert a casual traveller to old trafford to a weekly regular to the LOI (there will be a few exceptions but in general)

I think you're being a little dismissive of those who travel across the water and the connection that they feel to their respective clubs. I know several people who try and get over to Anfield as often as possible. They're also regulars at Ireland games. They would consider themselves far more than "casual travellers" and I could be naive, but I think most people who attend EPL games fall into that category. It's the guys who buy the latest shirt and then sit on a barstool cheering on their latest favourite team who are lost causes.

ntlbell

djpbarry wrote: »

That's a little harsh, but I'm not going to go into it. The standard is obviously poor compared to the EPL - anyone who goes to a LOI game expecting the same standard of football as they would see at the Emirates or Old Trafford is an idiot. But the point is that the standard does not have to be the best in the world for the game to be entertaining. The Scottish League is a case in point. The standard of football on display in the Edinburgh derby is pretty poor compared to the EPL, but that doesn't mean that the game (and atmosphere) cannot be entertaining.
I think you're being a little dismissive of those who travel across the water and the connection that they feel to their respective clubs. I know several people who try and get over to Anfield as often as possible. They're also regulars at Ireland games. They would consider themselves far more than "casual travellers" and I could be naive, but I think most people who attend EPL games fall into that category. It's the guys who buy the latest shirt and then sit on a barstool cheering on their latest favourite team who are lost causes.

Nope people who go to anfield as often as possible are not on a "bandwagon" so those fans are not up for discussion.

if there going to anfield as often as they can are part of the liverpool supporters club etc they're generally die hard liverpool fans not bandgwaon jumpers.

my point was about bandwagon jumpers these are not die hard fans.

your going down a totally different path.

djpbarry

themont85 wrote: »

They would never have put the money into an EL club because they would have made no money...

How much money have they made from their "investment" in Sunderland?

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

Nope people who go to anfield as often as possible are not on a "bandwagon" so those fans are not up for discussion.

As often is possible is probably every game if the individual wanted to, so I wouldn't use the 'often as possible' term too strongly.

djpbarry

ntlbell wrote: »

Nope people who go to anfield as often as possible are not on a "bandwagon" so those fans are not up for discussion.

if there going to anfield as often as they can are part of the liverpool supporters club etc they're generally die hard liverpool fans not bandgwaon jumpers.

my point was about bandwagon jumpers these are not die hard fans.

Ah, sorry, I see your point. I misunderstood what you were saying.

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

Nope people who go to anfield as often as possible are not on a "bandwagon" so those fans are not up for discussion.

if there going to anfield as often as they can are part of the liverpool supporters club etc they're generally die hard liverpool fans not bandgwaon jumpers.

my point was about bandwagon jumpers these are not die hard fans.

your going down a totally different path.

This has gota be the worst description of the term die hard fan I've seen. A die hard fan doesn't just go as often as possible.

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

As often is possible is probably every game if the individual wanted to, so I wouldn't use the 'often as possible' term too strongly.

so what do we do now base a fan on the amount of times they turn the stiles?

here's a few more straws.

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

This has gota be the worst description of the term die hard fan I've seen. A die hard fan doesn't just go as often as possible.

sorry it wasn't meant to be a new oxford definition of die hard.

etc was to fill in the gaps for a football fan posting on a football forum to work out...

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

so what do we do now base a fan on the amount of times they turn the stiles?

here's a few more straws.

Nope I never mentioned criteria at all. But why say as often as possible when it isn't as often as possible? I'm not criticising anyone for not making every game but why bother making fake excuses at the same time?

_blank_

ntlbell wrote: »

Des usually does a runner from these threads as soon as a rational debate on topic arises

thanks for the personal dig, for which I assume there will be no apology, or repurcussions, but hey, I'm used to it from the likes of you.

ffs.

Anyway, I was finished work at 7, and now I'm just after my dinner and turning on my computer.

I'll be back in to work tomorrow at ten to address the points made.