This Sunderland thing

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

Nope I never mentioned criteria at all. But why say as often as possible when it isn't as often as possible? I'm not criticising anyone for not making every game but why bother making fake excuses at the same time?

I'm not making excuses for anyone?

I live 5 minutes from dalymount and it will always be as often as possible.

life,partner,kids,work,money there's tons of small little things that can get in the way.

but i don't go around weighing up my level of fanness each year on the amount of times i turn the stiles

I try to get to old trafford as often as posible

again.

money,kids,partner,mortgages,work etc can get in the way.

there not excuses there just life.

so it will always be as much as possible be it 5 minutes down the road

or 40 minutes away on a plane.

have you got any points or are you going to nit pick till the thread is closed?

Kinetic^

Oh noes........the bandwagon folk!!

I'm hopefully going to get to a game when over on a stag in April. I don't support them. I just want to see an English premier league game as I've never been. With the Irish connection still there as such, I'd rather give the few bob to them. As the 25 of us going over are not an actual fans of SAFC, are we not allowed to attend the match? :rolleyes:

If the stag was in another major city then we'd try get a game there but it's not so it was one of NUFC, MFC or SAFC and we all preferred to see the later of the 3.

ntlbell

Des wrote: »

thanks for the personal dig, for which I assume there will be no apology, or repurcussions, but hey, I'm used to it from the likes of you.
.

lol

trying to pull this one again.

no there will be no apology for stating my opinion.

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not making excuses for anyone?

I live 5 minutes from dalymount and it will always be as often as possible.

life,partner,kids,work,money there's tons of small little things that can get in the way.

but i don't go around weighing up my level of fanness each year on the amount of times i turn the stiles

I try to get to old trafford as often as posible

again.

money,kids,partner,mortgages,work etc can get in the way.

there not excuses there just life.

so it will always be as much as possible be it 5 minutes down the road

or 40 minutes away on a plane.

have you got any points or are you going to nit pick till the thread is closed?

I thought the point was obvious. A real fan finds a way despite the obstacles. Obviously there are extreme circumstances which may prevail but money is rarely a valid reason. Most of us have the money like. Some just spend it on other things they find more important.

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

I thought the point was obvious. A real fan finds a way despite the obstacles. Obviously there are extreme circumstances which may prevail but money is rarely a valid reason. Most of us have the money like. Some just spend it on other things they find more important.

No, that's not the point at all.

i don't understand this "real" fan business.

Maybe I'm not one.

can you put down the criteria for a real fan

so we can all understand what one is?

what i find important is keeping a roof over my kids head and food on the table

if doing that instead of going to a match makes me a "fake" fan

then that's what i am

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

No, that's not the point at all.

i don't understand this "real" fan business.

Maybe I'm not one.

can you put down the criteria for a real fan

so we can all understand what one is?

what i find important is keeping a roof over my kids head and food on the table

if doing that instead of going to a match makes me a "fake" fan

then that's what i am

Fair enough if its the difference between a mortgage and living and going to matches regularly. I'd just wager that it rarely is because most people have enough disposal income for social activities and they will allocate those accordingly to what their interests are. For most its just getting locked at the weekend while sitting in a pub clapping their team off the pitch. Which I might add is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen anyone do.

Jazzy

djpbarry wrote: »

How much money have they made from their "investment" in Sunderland?

i dunno, are u a business man? can u tell us the ins and outs of how a PL club runs and makes money? or did they just invest in sunderland for the laugh and to p1ss off LoI fans?

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

while sitting in a pub clapping their team off the pitch. Which I might add is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen anyone do.

I have to say the only time I ever saw this was watching Ireland matches.

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

I have to say the only time I ever saw this was watching Ireland matches.

I don't really watch games in pubs so I'm probably working from a small sample size but the few times I've been there its been rampant, mainly among United and Liverpool fans, some of them even singing the songs, how attached from reality can you be?

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

I don't really watch games in pubs so I'm probably working from a small sample size but the few times I've been there its been rampant, mainly among United and Liverpool fans, some of them even singing the songs, how attached from reality can you be?

This is where I kind of get lost, why does them doing it annoy you tho?

This is what I see..

A few lads having a few pints in the pub watching a match and having a bit of craic?

what you see

"F*cking barstoolers,"

I don't see united fans in a pub singing viva ronaldo (which i have never seen) anymore more weird than ireland fans sitting in a pub singing ole ole?

they're united/pool fans what difference does it make if they sing the songs in the pub

and why does it get to you so much?

be honest.

that way we can have a discussion.

themont85

djpbarry wrote: »

How much money have they made from their "investment" in Sunderland?

I'd wager a bit considering they bought a Championship club who are now a Premiership club.

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

This is where I kind of get lost, why does them doing it annoy you tho?

This is what I see..

A few lads having a few pints in the pub watching a match and having a bit of craic?

what you see

"F*cking barstoolers,"

I don't see united fans in a pub singing viva ronaldo (which i have never seen) anymore more weird than ireland fans sitting in a pub singing ole ole?

they're united/pool fans what difference does it make if they sing the songs in the pub

and why does it get to you so much?

be honest.

that way we can have a discussion.

People being so far detached from reality will always get to me, the same as people will always get fed up listening to the minger you know talking about how she can have any lad, shes not harming anyone, its just annoying.

Stupidity will also always get to me, in the same way as if someone wrote in a message saying 'i luv man utd dey r grat n i tink c.ronaldo iz clas', it'd grind my gears, he isn't doing me any harm, but he'll annoy me. If people only got annoyed at things that were directly harming them, this world would be a very peaceful, yet horribly boring place.

This is exactly how the dislike for Sunderland over here comes about.

therecklessone

Tone down the replies please, or there will be more than a few edited posts.

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

People being so far detached from reality will always get to me, the same as people will always get fed up listening to the minger you know talking about how she can have any lad, shes not harming anyone, its just annoying.

Stupidity will also always get to me, in the same way as if someone wrote in a message saying 'i luv man utd dey r grat n i tink c.ronaldo iz clas', it'd grind my gears, he isn't doing me any harm, but he'll annoy me. If people only got annoyed at things that were directly harming them, this world would be a very peaceful, yet horribly boring place.

This is exactly how the dislike for Sunderland over here comes about.

how are they detached from reality? they're singing a song in a pub having a laugh? what reality are they detached from?

You're telling me it annoys you but your not really explaining why.

and yacking on about mingers talking about "fellits" and people who writing in txt spk isn't really helping

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

how are they detached from reality? they're singing a song in a pub having a laugh? what reality are they detached from?

You're telling me it annoys you but your not really explaining why.

and yacking on about mingers talking about "fellits" and people who writing in txt spk isn't really helping

They're emulating real football fans in a football stadium. That is what annoys me, I suppose.

therecklessone

I've no problem understanding people who want a lads jolly abroad with a bit of football and maybe a bit on the side thrown in, hey I went to Milan last year for a Serie A game and hope to head to Barcelona in April for a La Liga game.

I cannot fathom how grown men can suddenly decide they are Sunderland fans, including many who have turned their backs on other PL teams they used to "support" so that they can buy a season ticket at the Stadium of Light and a sh1tload of merchandise for the kids.

There's a difference between a weekend away and saying you are a fan. I can understand why LOI fans are pissed off at hearing people go on about how Irish Sunderland are. They're no more Irish than British Airways are after Willie Walsh got the top job.

I get the marketing thing, i think it's good business from Drumaville, but the rest if very

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

They're emulating real football fans in a football stadium. That is what annoys me, I suppose.

so these people's are not "real" fans?

can you as i asked before give us the criteria you have for a "real" fan
so i can respond?

OPENROAD

therecklessone wrote: »

They're no more Irish than British Airways are after Willie Walsh got the top job.

+1

Charlie

They'll always be the SMBs to me.

TBH, something like the Drumvaille/Irish connection was needed, as the general support is woeful. We don't sing 'you've got 27,000 empty seats' for no reason.

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

so these people's are not "real" fans?

can you as i asked before give us the criteria you have for a "real" fan
so i can respond?

I'll try to make this as general as possible because if I go into too much detail you're just going to nitpick and pick out individual insignificant parts of my post and ignore the main point.

Real football fans are fans who regularly attend football matches. Whether they're in the AUL, Tolka Park, Old Trafford, or Colombia.

ntlbell

therecklessone wrote: »

I've no problem understanding people who want a lads jolly abroad with a bit of football and maybe a bit on the side thrown in, hey I went to Milan last year for a Serie A game and hope to head to Barcelona in April for a La Liga game.

I cannot fathom how grown men can suddenly decide they are Sunderland fans, including many who have turned their backs on other PL teams they used to "support" so that they can buy a season ticket at the Stadium of Light and a sh1tload of merchandise for the kids.

there's a difference between a weekend away and saying you are a fan. I can understand why LOI fans are pissed off at hearing people go on about how Irish Sunderland are. They're no more Irish than British Airways are after Willie Walsh got the top job.

I get the marketing thing, i think it's good business from Drumaville, but the rest if very

Is there any figures anywhere on how many sunderland season tickets are held by sunderland fans that were not sunderland fans before the irish took over?

because i hear this a lot but I don't know anyone who has one, I've never heard of anyone that i know of or friends of friends buying one, the only time i seen a sunderland jersey in dublin was when sunderland came to play boh's two years ago.

where are all these new season ticket holders?

I'm not saying there isn't any i'm just curious what your basing it on?

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

I'll try to make this as general as possible because if I go into too much detail you're just going to nitpick and pick out individual insignificant parts of my post and ignore the main point.

Real football fans are fans who regularly attend football matches. Whether they're in the AUL, Tolka Park, Old Trafford, or Colombia.

ok and on that general assumption.

you say you rarley watch a match in a pub

and on the few occassion you have you noticed fans singing.

how do you know they're not regular LOI goers?

how do you know they're not regular visitors to old trafford/anfield?

and if they were would them singing in the pub be any less detached form reality

or is it only non "real" fans singing in a pub that gets to you?

do you think people singing U2 songs in a pub is strange?

like pretending to be at a concert like a real fan?

i'm not trying to be smart i'm genuinely interested

Jazzy

watching telly for entertainment = detachment from reality

feck that, im just going to fly over to england and sit beside alan hansen in the MotD studio from now on.
and ppl being entertained by something that is designed to be entertaining is annoying? are they not being entertained properly or something? it makes no sense.

heres wat it is.... u just like to feel better then these fans by ranking urself above them. it is that simple

DSB wrote: »

They're emulating real football fans in a football stadium. That is what annoys me, I suppose.

bang. and theres the proof

SectionF

Supporting a football club is about pride.

I think the reason that Sunderland get up people's noses a lot is that it was so blatantly manufactured, and essentially treated Irish football fans as idiots. If you like, they took too far the self-deception that is inherent in remote fandom.

We were all supposed to sign up to it as an 'Irish' adventure because of a couple of celebrity connections, but the real meat behind it was that it was a business investment, and that investment was bolstered to the hilt by a calculating PR campaign. It was quite galling to see how easily people, media included, were suckered by it.

To a certain degree there is no point discussing something like this in rational terms, because it's really about emotion. Supporting any football team is about the pride that comes loyalty, and, crucially, identification. I suppose if that doesn't run deep then you can view the thing as a product. But if you take it seriously enough to to convince yourself to travel hundreds of miles to another country and scream your head off in support of xxxx FC then you'd want to be indulging in some hard core suspension of disbelief. Or perhaps it's just a way to pass the time on a drinking/shopping weekend.

Either way, it's just a pity we can't look past the illusion and show more pride in our own thing, rather than disingenuously dismissing it because the standard isn't as high as the English competition, when it's common sense that if we support it then it will get better.

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

ok and on that general assumption.

you say you rarley watch a match in a pub

and on the few occassion you have you noticed fans singing.

how do you know they're not regular LOI goers?

how do you know they're not regular visitors to old trafford/anfield?

and if they were would them singing in the pub be any less detached form reality

or is it only non "real" fans singing in a pub that gets to you?

do you think people singing U2 songs in a pub is strange?

like pretending to be at a concert like a real fan?

i'm not trying to be smart i'm genuinely interested

I knew you'd nitpick, but ok I'll humour you. Music and football are completely different things. Nobody commits to 1 particular artist and commits themselves to that artist forever. If the artist releases 2 rubbish albums, they'll want nothing to do with them. Comparing the 2 is stupid.

And in discussing the clapping and singing the matchday songs in pubs, I never referred to any individuals, just the general practice, so your point is null and void.

invincibleirish

therecklessone wrote: »

I get the marketing thing, i think it's good business from Drumaville, but the rest if very

What i find odd about the marketing thing is who thought it would be a good idea to put together Keane, a man who divides opinion on the barstools & Terraces around the country with a whole load of fairly average at best sometime Irish Internationals who haven't exactly caught the Irish publics imagination in recent years?. then you have the Drumavilla consortium (made up of Irish property developers FFS! who likes them?) and Washing powder salesman Niall Quinn being the frontman.

Who in their right mind who has lived in this country over the past 15yrs would consider supporting any team with this motley crew involved?.

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

Supporting a football club is about pride.

In your opinion. It doesn't have to be exclusively about that or any other 'thing'.

DSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In your opinion. It doesn't have to be exclusively about that or any other 'thing'.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ctrl-alt-delete

SectionF wrote: »

Either way, it's just a pity we can't look past the illusion and show more pride in our own thing, rather than disingenuously dismissing it because the standard isn't as high as the English competition, when it's common sense that if we support it then it will get better.

You mean Gaa?

ntlbell

DSB wrote: »

I knew you'd nitpick, but ok I'll humour you. Music and football are completely different things. Nobody commits to 1 particular artist and commits themselves to that artist forever. If the artist releases 2 rubbish albums, they'll want nothing to do with them. Comparing the 2 is stupid.

And in discussing the clapping and singing the matchday songs in pubs, I never referred to any individuals, just the general practice, so your point is null and void.

I'm not comparing music to football I'm comparing what might be two sets of people doing something stupid in a pub detached from reality?

so can you answer this

if they were real fans go to dalymount for example week in week out and on a satuday day go the pub watch united sing the songs and go to a few matches a year

would their behaviour be as equally as stupid?

would a load of boh's fans in a pub wearing boh's jerseys in a pub watching boh's singing songs get to you?

would that annoy you?

DSB

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not comparing music to football I'm comparing what might be two sets of people doing something stupid in a pub detached from reality?

so can you answer this

if they were real fans go to dalymount for example week in week out and on a satuday day go the pub watch united sing the songs and go to a few matches a year

would their behaviour be as equally as stupid?

would a load of boh's fans in a pub wearing boh's jerseys in a pub watching boh's singing songs get to you?

would that annoy you?

Yeah it would get to me, why would they be watching it in the pub instead of in Dalymount or wherever it was on?

jaykay74

Groundhog thread

CiaranC

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In your opinion. It doesn't have to be exclusively about that or any other 'thing'.

Well traditionally it has been about 'pride' and 'identification'. Now its being turned into a Commodity and an Entertainment Package, like X-factor or American Gladiators, marketed at the likes of you. A lot of football fans dont like that, and will naturally complain about it.

So not only are the ever growing army of remote, sky TV watching, daytripping plastic fans taking over football, but the have the neck to slag off the traditional football fan along the way. Its a bit irksome tbh.

LuckyLloyd

DSB wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You can rolleyes all you like, but the reality is that modern football does not have a supporter's handbook and you don't require a license or degree in football to call yourself a fan. I know what football means to me, but I don't begrudge people for whom it means less a bit of enjoyment from watching a game. Take from football what you want yourself - understanding that you only get back what you put in. But snobbery in this subject is like snobbery in anything else - ultimately pointless and self defeating.

GuanYin

....aaaaannnnnddddd we're done.

(see earlier warning for details).