Republic of Ireland - v - Georgia (WCQ) Group 8 - 11/02/09 MATCH THREAD

RodVelvet

Gibson was better than Anderson in the Derby match I think. Although that was the first leg when pretty much all the united players were muck.

Having watched Gibson in a few games this season he reminds me of Michael Carrick in the way he plays. Capable of making decent passes and has a good shot on him aswell. One thing that I would be concerned about is that for all his size he is not very physical and is quite slow also. Think he's playing better stuff than Anderson at the moment.

I really hope MuckShane is injured he always seems to try and commit hari kari in any penalty box he is defending. A bit like JOS used to until he's improved a bit lately.

Seaneh

roryc wrote: »

I never said he was a nice guy... the point I was trying to make was he has a lot more experience than the other two and would IMO be a lot better versus a team like Georgia. He is used to playing against players as bad as some of the Georgian team, and has captained his team in the past. I would much, much prefer a player with his experience and presence on the field, over two young players who have already shown they can't play together as a central midfield partnership.

Without any better players to choose from, such as S. Ireland, Andrews is our best choice. I can't believe you honestly think Gibson and Whelan are a better choice after what they have shown so far?

I agree with you, also, Andrews already has more Premiership experienxe than both Gibson and Whelan combined after his earlier stint with wolves, even if they did go straight back down.


Andrews has a great engine, a good eye for goal and a willingness to thorw himself about and would be a mssive improvment on Gibson.

Infact, I'd have matty holland back in the team ahead of gibson, and I HATED holland when he was starting for ireland and on here i used to cal him the invisable man but jesus gibson is something else.

Andrew isnt world class, but he offers more than our current centre mid partnership, by a long way.

**** I'd nearly start willo flood...

redout

Why in the name of god does some have Whelan in their teams predictions. Was he not god awful just a few months back when he played with Gibson ?

Raskolnikov

Seaneh wrote: »

**** I'd nearly start willo flood...

His ability to pass the ball more than five yards will automatically make him a luxury player in Trap's eyes

Mitch Connor

redout wrote: »

Why in the name of god does some have Whelan in their teams predictions. Was he not god awful just a few months back when he played with Gibson ?

who do you think Traps will actually replace him with?

redout

Mitch Connor wrote: »

who do you think Traps will actually replace him with?

Reid

Mitch Connor

redout wrote: »

Reid

What? You must be joking?

Who do you seriously think Traps will replace whelan with, having taken such issue with people predicting Traps will select him.

redout

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What? You must be joking?

Who do you seriously think Traps will replace whelan with, having taken such issue with people predicting Traps will select him.

No joke. I would rather Reid with our qualification hopes on the line to be honest. I dont know why you are so keen with having him. He was lambasted after the Cyprus games was it, along with Gibson.

Spud83

Can we not concentrate on the players who are actually in the squad. Surely the time for talking about exclusions was when the squad was announced.

Mitch Connor

redout wrote: »

No joke. I would rather Reid with our qualification hopes on the line to be honest. I dont know why you are so keen with having him. He was lambasted after the Cyprus games was it, along with Gibson.

Is reid in the squad? No.
Has Traps shown any indication that he wants to start Reid over Whelan? Certainly not.
Has Traps selected Whelan regularly? Yes.

Is there any reason to think Traps will drop whelan for Reid any time soon? Not in my opinion.

So, is the prediction that Whelan will start (never mind start over a person not even in the squad) a reasonable one to make? Yes.

How can you possibly think Reid starting is a good prediction and that people predicting Whelan will start is something to take affront to?

_blank_

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Can we not concentrate on the players who are actually in the squad. Surely the time for talking about exclusions was when the squad was announced.

True.

Everyone at this stage knows what the manager's thinking on the midfield is, it's obvious.

Jesus, the fai were hailed as geniuses for appointing this man, and now, less than halfway through his first campaign, people are already slating his squads.

ffs lads, what do you want?

Mourinho in charge?

I swear, even then, people would nitpick at selections.

How about you all just wait and see if the team qualifies, if it does, then you can all stfu, if they don't, then he'll walk away anyway, and everyone will get what they wanted.

Or maybe they should change manager after every game?

Pighead

Des wrote: »

True.

Everyone at this stage knows what the manager's thinking on the midfield is, it's obvious.

Jesus, the fai were hailed as geniuses for appointing this man, and now, less than halfway through his first campaign, people are already slating his squads.

ffs lads, what do you want?

Mourinho in charge?

I swear, even then, people would nitpick at selections.

How about you all just wait and see if the team qualifies, if it does, then you can all stfu, if they don't, then he'll walk away anyway, and everyone will get what they wanted.

Or maybe they should change manager after every game?

Yet again, the point has to be raised that this is a discussion board. If people want to "nitpick" let them "nitpick". That's what people in the real world do so why not here? As long as the discussion is within the rules of the charter I don't really see what the problem is to be honest.

Anyway, I reckon he could do worse than start Whelan and O'Shea in the middle. O'Shea is playing with a bit of confidence at the moment and out of all that is available is probably the best option I reckon.

Back four of Kilbane(LB), Kelly(RB), Dunne(CB) McShane(CB). Not the greatest centre back pairing but hopefully good enough to deal with the Georgians.

Mitch Connor

I'd play O'Shea ahead of McShane at CB. Have actually been very impressed with O'Shea at CB when I have seen him their for Ireland.

_blank_

McShane at CB would be an unmitigated disaster.

djpbarry

Des wrote: »

Jesus, the fai were hailed as geniuses for appointing this man, and now, less than halfway through his first campaign, people are already slating his squads.

Come off it Des; debating the selection is part-and-parcel of football chat. Are you trying to tell us that you’ve never questioned one of Mr. Keely’s decisions?

Spud83

No way should O'Shea and Dunne be broken up at the back. Especially if the purpose is to move O'Shea into midfield.

djpbarry

Pighead wrote: »

Anyway, I reckon he could do worse than start Whelan and O'Shea in the middle. O'Shea is playing with a bit of confidence at the moment and out of all that is available is probably the best option I reckon.

Back four of Kilbane(LB), Kelly(RB), Dunne(CB) McShane(CB). Not the greatest centre back pairing but hopefully good enough to deal with the Georgians.

Nah, O'Shea and Dunne have developed an understanding - if it ain't broke...

_blank_

djpbarry wrote: »

Come off it Des; debating the selection is part-and-parcel of football chat. Are you trying to tell us that you’ve never questioned one of Mr. Keely’s decisions?

Granted, but I don't start ranting about him not picking players who aren't even in the squad.

Spud83

djpbarry wrote: »

Come off it Des; debating the selection is part-and-parcel of football chat. Are you trying to tell us that you’ve never questioned one of Mr. Keely’s decisions?

Debating the team selection is fine.

However this is a match thread. We should be debating who is going to be played in the match.

Debating the squad selection can and should be done here

Pighead

Des wrote: »

McShane at CB would be an unmitigated disaster.

Against Georgia? Would it? I doubt it to be honest. The lad's capable as he showed against the Czechs and although there is a question mark over his consistency, the same applys to all our centre backs at the moment.

djpbarry

Des wrote: »

Granted, but I don't start ranting about him not picking players who aren't even in the squad.

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Debating the team selection is fine.

However this is a match thread. We should be debating who is going to be played in the match.

Fair enough.

Xavi6

Just a quick reminder that this is the Match Thread so discussion on who is in and who is out of the squad is pointless and essentially OT.

If someone wants to start a thread for general Irish squad discussion then super.

Cheers

_blank_

Pighead wrote: »

The lad's capable as he showed against the Czechs

And point me to one game, for club or country, where he has played to that level since?

None, that was a freak occurance, and the lad was hailed as the new McGrath back then. I accept he had an immense game that day, I watched it live, I was working in Landsdowne that evening, but since then, he has been utter shíte, calamity after calamity.

He's not up to the standard required for International football, and he never will be. Why stick a crock into such an important position when you have one of the top CBs in the PL, and another player who has played very regularly for the EPL, European and World Champions at your disposal?

Pighead

djpbarry wrote: »

Nah, O'Shea and Dunne have developed an understanding - if it ain't broke...

But the middle of the park is broke. Why not try to fix that? Tomorrow nights game will be won or lost in the middle of the park. Irelands centre back pairing should have a relatively quiet time of things against the Georgians so a slightly weakened defensive pairing shouldn't cause too much problems.

Spud83

Pighead wrote: »

Against Georgia? Would it? I doubt it to be honest. The lad's capable as he showed against the Czechs and although there is a question mark over his consistency, the same applys to all our centre backs at the moment.

Trap is trying to build a solid team around a solid spine. Given, O'Shea and Dunne are the basis of this spine. You don't change it unless you have to.

Freeing up O'Shea for midfield is IMO not a good reason to break it up. I don't see what O'Shea brings to the midfield that the other members of the squad don't.

_blank_

Pighead wrote: »

But the middle of the park is broke. Why not try to fix that? Tomorrow nights game will be won or lost in the middle of the park. Irelands centre back pairing should have a relatively quiet time of things against the Georgians so a slightly weakened defensive pairing shouldn't cause too much problems.

If you put McShane at CB you run the risk of some total fúck up in a non-pressure situation by him, gifting a goal to the Georgians, and possibly costing Ireland points.

No, it's a very bad idea.

Pighead

Des wrote: »

He's not up to the standard required for International football, and he never will be. Why stick a crock into such an important position when you have one of the top CBs in the PL, and another player who has played very regularly for the EPL, European and World Champions at your disposal?

I could turn that around and ask why play Gibson/Andrews in such an important position when you have a player who has played very regularly for the EPL, European and World Champions at your disposal?

For me the middle of the park is more important than defence for tomorrow nights game. I wholeheartedly agree that against more talented offensive teams than Georgia, McShane is a liability.

_blank_

I think you are under rating the Georgians

Spud83

Pighead wrote: »

I could turn that around and ask why play Gibson/Andrews in such an important position when you have a player who has played very regularly for the EPL, European and World Champions at your disposal?

But very rarely plays for them in center mid. It has been a long time since I remember John O'Shea playing center mid.

Pighead

Des wrote: »

I think you are under rating the Georgians

Nope. not at all. They'll be hard to break down and they'll defend like titans and could very well hold Ireland to a scoreless draw. I just cannot see them attacking to much tomorrow evening. Look at the game they played against Italy. Backs to the wall for 90 minutes with little or no attacking threat.

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Freeing up O'Shea for midfield is IMO not a good reason to break it up. I don't see what O'Shea brings to the midfield that the other members of the squad don't.

Personally I think O'Shea would bring more to the middle of the park than Gibson/Andrews.

redout

Lads we have poor to average players all over the park apart from Given ! Dunne, Keane, Duff all off the boil. O'Shea is in decent form, Doyle stuck in Division 1 but doing well and our best outfield player doesnt even play for us ! Take a bow Stephen Ireland.

_blank_

well done redout

*clap* *clap*

redout

Des wrote: »

well done redout

*clap* *clap*

Whats your point

Bualadh bos.

What I said is the truth no ?

Xavi6

redout wrote: »

Whats your point

Bualadh bos.

What I said is the truth no ?

Please read what I posted a few posts back.

Ireland is not in the squad. Reid is not in the sqaud. Get over it. This is the MATCH THREAD.

Go start an Ireland General Discussion thread if you want to mention any players not involved in this match.

Spud83

Pighead wrote: »

Personally I think O'Shea would bring more to the middle of the park than Gibson/Andrews.

Well I believe this is where the difference of opinion lies. IMO O'Shea would bring the same amount competitiveness and tackling to the middle of the park as either Gibson/Andrews/or Whelan however he I think he would be worse in possession than any of them, and will offer no service to our front two. I'm guessing you disagree with that and thats fine.

redout

Xavi6 wrote: »

Please read what I posted a few posts back.

Ireland is not in the squad. Reid is not in the sqaud. Get over it. This is the MATCH THREAD.

Go start an Ireland General Discussion thread if you want to mention any players not involved in this match.

I did not mention Reid in that post (I heard you the first time) and Stephen Ireland is relevant to every match discussion as he is the best Irish player this season by a country mile and not having him will be talked about every time a match comes around Xavi. Surely you can understand that ?

LuckyLloyd

Btw, I think writing it as:

---

Keane

---

---

Doyle

---

is correct, as Robbie will spend a lot of his time dropping off and looking to collect the ball deep. He plays in a very different way to Doyle and the two of them won't be taking up the same sort of positions for most of the game.

Discussion of Reid, Carsley, Jesus, etc is irrelevant - as the squad for tomorrow's game has been named and those who aren't in it won't be taking part.

I would start Andrews and Whelan in the middle. They have seen a lot of game time in the premiership over the past few weeks. Obviously, whether they will be good enough to start in the premiership regularly for the rest of their careers is debatable. However, they are there right now - which makes them the best option available for tomorrow's game imo. The two of them are tough and honest pros who won't let us down for a want of trying. And, while they have definite limitations in possession, they should be sharp enough on the basis of current premiership starts to control a midfield battle against Georgia.

Georgia will park the bus and make life difficult, so this won't be a walk in the park. But we should have enough to edge the three points.

Xavi6

redout wrote: »

I did not mention Reid in that post (I heard you the first time) and Stephen Ireland is relevant to every match discussion as he is the best Irish player this season by a country mile and not having him will be talked about every time a match comes around Xavi. Surely you can understand that ?

Answer me this - is he involved in the 90 minutes that will be played at Croke Park tomorrow?

If not then the place to discuss him isn't a Match Thread. Seriously, please start a general discussion thread. It would make things easier.

Pighead

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Well I believe this is where the difference of opinion lies. IMO O'Shea would bring the same amount competitiveness and tackling to the middle of the park as either Gibson/Andrews/or Whelan however he I think he would be worse in possession than any of them, and will offer no service to our front two. I'm guessing you disagree with that and thats fine.

Lets be honest none of the four players are great central midfielders and picking the best two is a bit like trying to decide the best looking out of an ugly girls contest. It's probably only O'Sheas lovely eyes that made me plump for him.

ShooterSF

Here's to McGeady not frustrating the **** out of us tomorrow Please! I really hope Georgia come to sit back and soak up our attacks as neither McShane or Kilbane are competent full-backs. Great work rate and heart and in Kilbane's case not a bad player just not a full back. They back off way too much and sometimes even disappear.

I'm hoping Given and Doyle continue their international form which is excellent and maybe Duffer or Keane have a good game (not beyond them)

Pighead

By the way I notice that Andrews has been hauled off before the second half has started in each of his last two matches. Does anybody know if these substitutions were injury related or shiteness related?

eagle eye

Pighead wrote: »

By the way I notice that Andrews has been hauled off before the second half has started in each of his last two matches. Does anybody know if these substitutions were injury related or shiteness related?

The first one was an injury and the second was because he was only back from injury.

Drummerboy2

Trapp plays to a system. Two defensive midfielders protecting the back four. The players who are in the squad and can do that job are Andrews Gibson O’Shea and Whelan. O'Shea will be centre half. So basically its a choice between the other three with Whelan a definitive starter.

Think its going to be a tension filled night at Croker tomorrow night. Our right full position is suspect, Kelly has only played a couple of games this season, McShane is carrying an injury. Reckon Foley could have slotted in but not sure if he's in the squad. Finnan future is very uncertain. Injured again. He failed medical for Hull so its not looking too good for him. Anyway I'll be giving it socks tomorrow night.

djpbarry

Pighead wrote: »

But the middle of the park is broke. Why not try to fix that?

Because O'Shea is not really going to add anything extra. So you'd be weakening the defence for little gain (if any) in midfield.

Pighead wrote: »

Irelands centre back pairing should have a relatively quiet time of things against the Georgians so a slightly weakened defensive pairing shouldn't cause too much problems.

I agree with Des - you're seriously underestimating these lads. They have a few decent young players (e.g. Levan Kenia) who can cause problems given the opportunity. Playing McShane at centre-back is likely to present at least one such opportunity.

Pighead wrote: »

Lets be honest none of the four players are great central midfielders and picking the best two is a bit like trying to decide the best looking out of an ugly girls contest.

True; so why break up a decent CB pairing?

On current form, I think you'd have to go with Whelan and Andrews in the middle. Won't offer much going forward, but they won't let much through the middle of the park either.

ShooterSF wrote: »

I really hope Georgia come to sit back and soak up our attacks as neither McShane or Kilbane are competent full-backs. Great work rate and heart and in Kilbane's case not a bad player just not a full back.

Kilbane is a bit error-prone alright, but he gets forward (which will be needed against defensive-minded opposition) and should link up well with Duff down the left. If we had a similar attack-minded full-back down the right then we'd be sorted.

Pighead

djpbarry wrote: »

On current form, I think you'd have to go with Whelan and Andrews in the middle. Won't offer much going forward, but they won't let much through the middle of the park either.

On current form Andrews is a crock. Taken off before half time in his last two matches because of injury/ recovering from injury. Starting him is risky. That leaves Gibson who eh doesn't have any current form because he's not playing.

eagle eye

Pighead wrote: »

On current form Andrews is a crock. Taken off before half time in his last two matches because of injury/ recovering from injury. Starting him is risky. That leaves Gibson who eh doesn't have any current form because he's not playing.

So then you'd start Andrews?

Pighead

eagle eye wrote: »

So then you'd start Andrews?

Nope. As stated earlier on in the thread, I'd start O'Shea and Whelan.

djpbarry

Pighead wrote: »

On current form Andrews is a crock. Taken off before half time in his last two matches because of injury/ recovering from injury. Starting him is risky. That leaves Gibson who eh doesn't have any current form because he's not playing.

Precisely my point. It basically boils down to a choice between McShane (if fit) and Andrews for a starting position. Admittedly, my knowledge of the latter is scarce, but I know enough about McShane to be a little anxious whenever I see him in a green shirt, even if the colour does go quite well with his pale complexion and fiery hair to give a rather pleasant "tricolour look".

Craft25

Lads why oh why has nobody ever looked at James O'Connor at Sheffield wednesday.. 28years old.. at his peak defensive midfielder

played for Stoke, West Brom, Burnley, and now wednesday.. has consistently been a fans favourite for his hard work, getting around the pitch.. got home man of the match when burnley played arsenal last year..

He has consistently gotten his team around the playoffs, and got WBA promoted, he is a super hard worker, he only played one premiership match when WBA got promoted unfortunately

his only weakness is a small enough stature, but gets around and is SUPERfit

seems perfect for the problem you are discussing

am i bovvered

Craft25 wrote: »

Lads why oh why has nobody ever looked at James O'Connor at Sheffield wednesday.. 28years old.. at his peak defensive midfielder

played for Stoke, West Brom, Burnley, and now wednesday.. has consistently been a fans favourite for his hard work, getting around the pitch.. got home man of the match when burnley played arsenal last year..

He has consistently gotten his team around the playoffs, and got WBA promoted, he is a super hard worker, he only played one premiership match when WBA got promoted unfortunately

his only weakness is a small enough stature, but gets around and is SUPERfit

seems perfect for the problem you are discussing

This thread is for players in the squad.