Civil Public and Services Union Plan Strike - Garda Stations To Be Hit

Sierra Oscar

Union officials of the "Civil Public and Services Union" are to ballot their members as to whether they should go ahead with a one day stoppage on February 26th. According to a number of sources, Garda Stations will be affected if this occurs.

In what way would they be affected?

Union considers industrial action over levy

Some 13,000 lower paid civil servants will hold a one day work stoppage on Thursday, 26 February across all public services if a ballot for industrial action is passed.

The Civil and Public Services Union is to ballot its members for industrial action up to and including strike action in protest at the Government's introduction of a pension levy to fund their guaranteed state pensions.

The result of the ballot is expected on 19 February.

The union is also organising a demonstration outside the Dáil on 18 February.

The nationwide stoppage would take place a week later and It would affect services in all areas of the public service, including garda stations, social welfare offices, and tax offices.


CPSU Deputy General Secretary Eoin Ronayne said the union is now discussing what form its protest campaign will take, and it could include industrial action.

He described the cuts as unbalanced.

The Irish Nurses Organisation has said all options should be considered to force the Government to think again about the planned pension levy.

The union said it expects a nationwide response across the public sector but added that nobody wants industrial action.

Following a three-hour special meeting of its executive, INO General Secretary Liam Doran said the pension levy was an onerous and regressive tax on nurses and the public sector.

The union is to advise its 40,000 nurses and midwives to lobby TDs and senators on the issue.

Mr Doran said the INO would play its full part in whatever campaign is decided tomorrow by the Irish Congress of Trade Union's Public Services Committee.

He said the issue has generated the most reaction among nurses and midwives of any topic in recent years.


The INO has said as the levy will apply to all public servants, any response to the decision by Government must be collective if it is to achieve a more equitable outcome.

Last month, the union wrote to Minister for Health Mary Harney saying it had received comprehensive legal advice that any attempt by Government to reduce the pay of nurses and midwives can be successfully resisted.

The INO said it would not accept measures which affect increments, allowances or unsocial hours' payments.

It added it was committed to taking whatever action is necessary to protect members' interests in the face of any attack on existing pay levels.


The IMPACT trade union is to meet five Mayo TDs, including Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny, to outline the impact the pensions' levy will have on its members.

This week's meetings will also allow union leaders to collectively decide on their response to the collapse of social partnership talks last week.

Any action over levy 'disappointing' - Cowen

The Taoiseach has said industrial action in the civil and public sector as a result of the pensions levy would be disappointing.

He said decisions made last week by the Government were made in the interest of economy.

Mr Cowen said he hopes it is the intention that public services are not affected if any action is decided on.

He was speaking in Tallaght in Dublin after he attended the signing of a contract for an extension of the LUAS Red Line in the area.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0209/pensions.html

timmywex

While i dont agree with the levy in any way, people and the unions just have to deal with it and get on with it. The country is in a receession and it should be expected that a drop in living standards will occur!

Im sure no one in the government wants to make these cuts/levies but at the end of the day the money just isnt there anymore!

Itll be a hard few years for everyone in the country, the government just wont roll back on this one, they have no money to be able to roll back and international credit ratings and the likes would be severly affected!

I do still think this levy doesnt tax the high earners enough.
The area that should be taxed alot are the high earners in the private sector who havnt been hit at all!

Eru

timmywex wrote: »

While i dont agree with the levy in any way, people and the unions just have to deal with it and get on with it. The country is in a receession and it should be expected that a drop in living standards will occur!

Im sure no one in the government wants to make these cuts/levies but at the end of the day the money just isnt there anymore!

Itll be a hard few years for everyone in the country, the government just wont roll back on this one, they have no money to be able to roll back and international credit ratings and the likes would be severly affected!

I do still think this levy doesnt tax the high earners enough.
The area that should be taxed alot are the high earners in the private sector who havnt been hit at all!

Agree with what your saying fully but I dont think you can expect the public sector to take the hit when there is, as yet, no sign of a similar hit in the private sector or more importantly, welfare.

If the government announced an initiative across all sectors to reduce expenses and help get the country back on its feet you would probable see the public sector agree.

goldie fish

I am writing to express my outrage at the “Pensions Levy” this Government proposes to impose on civil and public servants.
I would like to point out the following information:

The 2nd Benchmarking Report in 2008 resulted in 300,000 public servants and 100,000 retired public servants receiving a pay award of 0%.
This report stated “A discount of up to 12.5% was applied because of pension entitlement”.

Because this was not highlighted by the Trade Union movement at the time, the way was left open for the savage attack on our take-home pay which is now being proposed by the Government.

The failure by Trade Union leaders to state at every opportunity that public servants pay 6.5% of their salary for pension in addition to the 12.5% above, created the impression in the public mind that Public Servants did not pay anything for their pension.


Benchmarking has been shamefully described as the “ATM for Public Servants”. The first Benchmarking Report in 2002 was welcomed by IBEC who said at the time “Benchmarking has brought reality into Public Service pay and has stopped leapfrogging and relativities”.

This same Benchmarking process replaced our traditional pay review mechanism.

The “Rolls Royce” Public Service pensions referred to by Turlough O’ Sullivan is as follows
Public Service retiree on pension of €500 per week after 40 year’s service does not get the State Pension of €230 per week. Thus the real additional benefit of the “Rolls Royce”, after working for 40 years, is €270 per week, NOT €500.
Out of this, the pensioner pays VHI, including the levy of €128, and the new 1% income levy (equivalent to €400 per annum).

The separation of the link between Public Service pay and pensions, evident again in this proposed levy, must be stopped.

We as public servants are prepared to take some of the pain of this recession, on an equitable basis, even though we did not receive the gain of the private sector during the Celtic Tiger- large bonuses, company cars, expenses.

Many public servants are on temporary contracts. This is not secure employment.


It is offensive to Public Servants that the private sector is referred to as “the real economy” by Turlough O’Sullivan. The public sector economy is very real to people who are in hospital, children in schools and people who are rescued by firefighters.

Unlike a possible pay cut, the proposed pension levy will not be reversed when the economy picks up.

THIS INFORMATION MUST BE PUT INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS UNFAIR LEVY.
WE DEMAND THAT OUR TRADE UNION LEADERS, WHO ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THIS LEVY AS THEY HAVE PRIVATE, NON-CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS, FIGHT THIS ON OUR BEHALF.
WE DEMAND THAT OUR ELECTED PUBLIC REPRESENTATIVES STOP THIS UNFAIR TREATMENT AND CONCERTED MEDIA CAMPAIGN AGAINST PUBLIC SERVANTS, AND REPRESENT US EQUALLY AND FAIRLY AS THE HARD-WORKING, HONEST, TAX-PAYING CITIZENS THAT WE ARE.

Please copy and email to everybody you know, TODAY, especially your elected representatives, newspapers, television stations and your union head office.
We must act quickly. Remember that ICTU entered the discussions with the Government on the basis that there will be tax increases. These will follow, and we will be hit again, to pay for a problem that we did not create.

Signed: A clerical officer.

Ruen

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Union officials of the "Civil Public and Services Union" are to ballot their members as to whether they should go ahead with a one day stoppage on February 26th. According to a number of sources, Garda Stations will be affected if this occurs.

In what way would they be affected?

Civil servants based in certain stations taking part in the stoppage would be how a number of stations would be affected, I dont think it would affect the frontline service too drastically though.

Eru

Ruen wrote: »

Civil servants based in certain stations taking part in the stoppage would be how a number of stations would be affected, I dont think it would affect the frontline service too drastically though.

Damn it, I might not get my daily reminders!

goldie fish

Eru wrote: »

Damn it, I might not get my daily reminders!

However, ask yourself, If the civil servants are out, will the GRA and AGSI pass the pickets?
Keep in mind that the Army unions have already said they will not be strikebreakers.
Some Larger stations have civil servants doing much of the Non Garda public work such as traffic fines,etc. Will gardai be expected to do these jobs instead?
Look at the bigger picture. For the most part Clerical officers in the GS are doing jobs that used to be done by "gardai", but for less than half the wage.
Note also that when you ring castlebar, to update the pulse system, it is Clerical officers you are speaking to.


BIGGER PICTURE!:cool:

Eru

goldie fish wrote: »

However, ask yourself, If the civil servants are out, will the GRA and AGSI pass the pickets?
Keep in mind that the Army unions have already said they will not be strikebreakers.
Some Larger stations have civil servants doing much of the Non Garda public work such as traffic fines,etc. Will gardai be expected to do these jobs instead?
Look at the bigger picture. For the most part Clerical officers in the GS are doing jobs that used to be done by "gardai", but for less than half the wage.
Note also that when you ring castlebar, to update the pulse system, it is Clerical officers you are speaking to.


BIGGER PICTURE!:cool:

A, Gardai have full access to PULSE and for far longer than the slow agonising and second guessing GISC ever existed. Many members still dont use GISC for incident creation which is all they can do.

B, Half the wages? Just where does that come from?

C, I dont recall the civil service ever once supporting AGS.

D, We arent allowed strike and dont have a union.

E, Why would the army be called into cover the civil service?

F, Gardai are still present in district offices and Chiefs offices.

In Garda stations a one day stoppage will have no impact at all. Possible longer term it may but I would be concentrating on the impact it will have on actual civil service departments such as the courts, social welfare, motor tax and the various other sectors that are 100% civil service.

Zuppy

I will answer E,
Army have been used in the past to man bin lorries, or the Bus service. The UK used the Army to break the fire strike.
The Army can be used to aid the civilian power and is to be called out when the population is in danger. ie health is threatened (Bin trucks). Like the AGS they can't strike.

D!
Striking is industrial action of the last resort. There is other action that can be taken.

C!
The Public service has always supported the AGS. Most Public servants wouldn't dare cross a picket line/ Acton line. And most public servants realise that all the services have to look after and help each other. Like we do for day to day stuff, its the same with IR. You already listed Motor Tax, UDC, social etc

Eru

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

I will answer E,
Army have been used in the past to man bin lorries, or the Bus service. The UK used the Army to break the fire strike.
The Army can be used to aid the civilian power and is to be called out when the population is in danger. ie health is threatened (Bin trucks). Like the AGS they can't strike.

D!
Striking is industrial action of the last resort. There is other action that can be taken.

C!
The Public service has always supported the AGS. Most Public servants wouldn't dare cross a picket line/ Acton line. And most public servants realise that all the services have to look after and help each other. Like we do for day to day stuff, its the same with IR. You already listed Motor Tax, UDC, social etc

I still fail to see your point on this one. They went into the prisons with Gardai. They helped with logistics during flooding and covered fire but thats because they have fire trucks, trucks and have trained staff. They also offered backup at Mayday a while back after being trained in riot control. A soldier wont be looking after anyones paperwork, social welfare payments or sorting out the next court list so come on, stick to relevent facts about the issue.

Im not suggesting the civil service aint important, far from it. Public sector run the country on a day to day basis and yes, a civil servant strike would cause a lot of problems, in fact a long dispute would cause chaos but not in regards Gardai going about their business.

We aint that far along yet for talk of strikes or blue flu but I do agree with you that we either work together or simple accept whatever is thrown our way but remember you also need fire, nurses and all the other assorted public sector employees.

Of course if Killarney goes on strike, well thats another matter

goldie fish

Eru wrote: »

I still fail to see your point on this one. They went into the prisons with Gardai. They helped with logistics during flooding and covered fire but thats because they have fire trucks, trucks and have trained staff. They also offered backup at Mayday a while back after being trained in riot control. A soldier wont be looking after anyones paperwork, social welfare payments or sorting out the next court list so come on, stick to relevent facts about the issue.

Im not suggesting the civil service aint important, far from it. Public sector run the country on a day to day basis and yes, a civil servant strike would cause a lot of problems, in fact a long dispute would cause chaos but not in regards Gardai going about their business.

We aint that far along yet for talk of strikes or blue flu but I do agree with you that we either work together or simple accept whatever is thrown our way but remember you also need fire, nurses and all the other assorted public sector employees.

Of course if Killarney goes on strike, well thats another matter

Of course killarney will be on strike...On a wednesday!

You seem for some reason to think you are not part of the public sector. Be assured that when Sir Anthonys minions are writing about how the public service are leeching off the private sector and should get pay cuts, they are including the Gardai in that article too. Think of the bigger picture. Will you cross the pickets?
You seem to be saying that you will support nurses or firemen, but not clerical officers?
In my experience, the gardai always held a "them and us" attitude towards the public. However I fear you have forgotten who "US" are.
The following are members of the Public sector, and are going to be the financial whipping boy for the next few years(tax increases expected for the next 2 years)
Civil Servants(including motor tax, and all local authorities).
Court Staff
Teachers
Firemen
Nurses
EMTs
Defence forces
Oh, and
Gardai.

We are all in this together. As far as the media are concerned(and they have been very successful implanting the notion in the public mindset),
We are all overpaid, work short hours, and have massive free pensions, as well as a secure job for life. You still earn twice what I do(I'm only a clerical officer).
Consider too what the civil service in your station actually do? If not in your station, what about District or Divisional HQ?
Who processes your Sub/ot?
Who cleans the puke out of the cell?
PSV?
On the Spot fines?
Court files for State Solr?
DPP?


BIGGER PICTURE!

timmywex

Will the defence forces break strikes though?

Personally i dont think they will, theyre in the same boat as any other public services worker!

I remember teh army were used a few years back to break an ambulance service strike over on call, but eventually they just couldnt cross picket lines, i reckon they wont this time, theyre getting and taking the hit aswell. Plus theres not enough of them to keep everything in order!

Eru

goldie fish wrote: »

You seem for some reason to think you are not part of the public sector. Be assured that when Sir Anthonys minions are writing about how the public service are leeching off the private sector and should get pay cuts, they are including the Gardai in that article too. Think of the bigger picture. Will you cross the pickets?
You seem to be saying that you will support nurses or firemen, but not clerical officers?
In my experience, the gardai always held a "them and us" attitude towards the public. However I fear you have forgotten who "US" are.
The following are members of the Public sector, and are going to be the financial whipping boy for the next few years(tax increases expected for the next 2 years)
Civil Servants(including motor tax, and all local authorities).
Court Staff
Teachers
Firemen
Nurses
EMTs
Defence forces
Oh, and
Gardai.

Isnt that pretty much exactly what I said?

goldie fish wrote: »

Consider too what the civil service in your station actually do? If not in your station, what about District or Divisional HQ?

Im in the divisional HQ. I know what they do.

goldie fish wrote: »

Who processes your Sub/ot?

A civil servant. Could easily be done by a Garda who was doing it up until about 4 years ago. And thats done once a month. 1 day wont effect it anymore than a bank holiday does.

goldie fish wrote: »

Who cleans the puke out of the cell?

Sure as hell not a bloody civil servant! Private contractors who are trained and equiped to sterilise the cells have this contract.

goldie fish wrote: »

PSV?

PSV Sergeant.

goldie fish wrote: »

On the Spot fines?

Handheld PC which automatically does so on being docked or the parking fines office in Thurles which is Gardai. They are forwarded by a civil servant but again, that was a Garda until about 2 years ago and again, one day wont hurt it.

goldie fish wrote: »

Court files for State Solr?
DPP?

Sorry, can you clarify this pls? I do my files for the dpp and state solicitor.

As for wages, compare them, clerical officer: On day 1 you earn €22,609 to a maximum of €36,667. Gardai on day 1 earn €10000 to a maximum of €48,695. Remember a Garda doesnt go on full pay until attestation which is after 1 year and then its at €24,550.
A Garda on 17 years service should earn double a civil servant on day 1! (I dont have 17 years by the way)

Again I repeat, the public sector as a whole unit needs to operate together. I agree 100% on this one but your grossly overestimating how much a one day stopage will effect policing unless the actual Gardai go blue flu.

I think if and I repeat if, theres a strike then it needs to be a unified stoppage on the same day across all sectors of the public sector with Gardai doing blue flu and the army doing whatever it is they do. Then yes your looking at a full disruption to services.

civdef

The day the Defence Forces fail to follow orders is the day Ireland becomes a failed state. I don't see it happening.

Paulzx

civdef wrote: »

The day the Defence Forces fail to follow orders is the day Ireland becomes a failed state. I don't see it happening.

Agreed.

The Army will follow orders and do what it is told to do. Anything else is a mutiny and the last thing this country needs is a Defence Forces mutiny.

However, anybody that thinks the Army has the capability to replace the Fire Services in the event of a Fire Services strike is sorely mistaken. They don't have the training, equipment or experience. Individual soldiers will do their best but it would fall very short of providing an adequate fire service. I would actually worry about the safety of soldiers who would be expected to carry out the duties of trained firefighters.

I have no idea whether these mooted strikes are actually going to happen

fermoyboy

Eru wrote: »

Handheld PC which automatically does so on being docked or the parking fines office in Thurles which is Gardai. They are forwarded by a civil servant but again, that was a Garda until about 2 years ago and again, one day wont hurt it.

Don't want to be nit-picking in this topic but the Fines Office in Thurles is completely civilianised. Only Garda presence there is an Inspector.

Like you said though, a one day stoppage would not have any major effect on the running of the place.

miju

Eru wrote: »

Im not suggesting the civil service aint important, far from it. Public sector run the country on a day to day basis and yes, a civil servant strike would cause a lot of problems, in fact a long dispute would cause chaos but not in regards Gardai going about their business.

while it's through that alot of civilians are not in "critical" jobs there are about 30% of them or so that if they went out could cause all sorts of essential operational problems for AGS if they went out.

Think along the lines of IT, Transport, Finance (Killarney) etc which are in the main civilianised. What do you do to get your computer or vehicle fixed if these lads are out for example??? If Killarney go out what happens to wages and other payments????

While a one day stoppage won't really have any effect I feel a longer term one (if it were to develop that way) would cause big issues.

Eru

miju wrote: »

Think along the lines of IT,

What about it? I do not recuire PULSE to patrol. In fact I currently dont have access to a PULSE machine and again, there are Gardai in IT

miju wrote: »

Transport,

Gardai manage fleet and private garages maintain vehicles. Nothing to do with civil servants.

miju wrote: »

Finance (Killarney)

Thats got absolutely zero to do with operational policing. Explain how that stops me from patroling, arresting, charging and prosecuting someone? I may very well choose not to if Im not being paid but thats MY choice.

miju wrote: »

What do you do to get your computer or vehicle fixed if these lads are out for example??? If Killarney go out what happens to wages and other payments????

I ask the GARDA in my station who fixes the pulse machine for me as our telecommunications and IT guy as an attested member. I bring my vehicle to the PRIVATE garage that has the contract for such things. Payments as above.


Listen, your all beginning to get a bit arrogant here. AGS can survive fine without civil servants just as it did 5 years ago before civilians came in. I really, really dont understand why your all trying to argue with me here. Do you want me to kiss the civil services ass, grovel and beg for some reason?

I already stated civil servants run vast areas of the country and are incredible important but not within AGS, if you dont feel important enough from that tough.

miju

Eru wrote: »

Gardai manage fleet and private garages maintain vehicles. Nothing to do with civil servants.

you might get a bit of a suprise next time your in the depot so

Eru wrote: »

I bring my vehicle to the PRIVATE garage that has the contract for such things. Payments as above.

but what happens when you can't drop the car to a garage as per the code? or it's crashed where do you have to revert to then?????

anyways, the point I'm making is that AGS will be affected by any stoppages, it wont be crippled by any stretch of the imagination (i dont think anyone was saying that anyway) but it will be affected in some parts where in other it can operate pretty much as normal.

Ruen

miju wrote: »

but what happens when you can't drop the car to a garage as per the code? or it's crashed where do you have to revert to then?????

miju wrote: »

anyways, the point I'm making is that AGS will be affected by any stoppages, it wont be crippled by any stretch of the imagination (i dont think anyone was saying that anyway) but it will be affected in some parts where in other it can operate pretty much as normal.

Anything that civil servants do in AGS can be done by Gardai if need be, you overestimate the importance of civil servants in this particular organisation, the Defence Forces would be be similar in that they could operate without civil servants if they had to they'd use their own personnel to carry out admin work

goldie fish

Ruen wrote: »

Anything that civil servants do in AGS can be done by Gardai if need be, you overestimate the importance of civil servants in this particular organisation, the Defence Forces would be be similar in that they could operate without civil servants if they had to they'd use their own personnel to carry out admin work

Now you are talking about demarkation, and even strike breaking. I'd wait for a GRA directive before I start giving opinions like that.

Zuppy

Eru wrote: »

Thats got absolutely zero to do with operational policing. Explain how that stops me from patroling, arresting, charging and prosecuting someone? I may very well choose not to if Im not being paid but thats MY choice.


I already stated civil servants run vast areas of the country and are incredible important but not within AGS, if you dont feel important enough from that tough.

Sorry for cutting you quote but if you think public and civil servant going on strike won't affect operational policing then you have another thing coming. You rely on the Local councils to come and clean up after RTC's and oil spills. Its not essential during strikes so you can tie up as may cars as you want to mind the scene till we come back to work. Duty of care and all that.
You now have entry teams of your own to break into houses but who secures them? Leave another Garda outside that house.
If traffic lights fail. You going to stay on the street till the council worker comes back?
How about social serivces?
Probation service?
Court Clerks?

I think anything longer than a day would affect the AGS operational unless you all do overtime (which might be seen as strike breaking).


Paulzx- You think the Retained will strike across the country? The Army will only have to cover the cities if they turnout. Even if they strike too, this country has fire service on the cheap already with minimal resourses and no minimum standards for fire cover.


All this is just IMO. I am not stating any facts but pointing out my personal view.

dvpower

A one day strike will have no substantial effect. It will register a protest at the cost of a days pay.

Public servants just need to bite the bullet on this one. They can lobby to get the levy dropped when the recession is over. They are, at least, in some position to ride out the recession with (for the most part) secure employment and secure pensions.

Zuppy

dvpower wrote: »

A one day strike will have no substantial effect. It will register a protest at the cost of a days pay.

Public servants just need to bite the bullet on this one. They can lobby to get the levy dropped when the recession is over. They are, at least, in some position to ride out the recession with (for the most part) secure employment and secure pensions.

Secure is great. 290 bus drivers, about a years recruiting freeze on nurses (some places), All temp contract staff in most UDC's. Loads temp contract teaching staff. Losses in Special needs. We are just losing jobs slower and at less of a rate than the private sector.

Pensions fund is being emptied into the banks.

No problem doing my bit. But why has "step 2" not being announced? And since they (Gov) mis-managed the economy will they mis-manage the money they have taken off me?

TheNog

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

You rely on the Local councils to come and clean up after RTC's and oil spills. Its not essential during strikes so you can tie up as may cars as you want to mind the scene till we come back to work. Duty of care and all that.

You are incorrect on this one. We contact the county council to treat any oil spill. The debris we usually clean up ourselves. We do not hang around waiting for the council team to arrive. Actually the county council that we work with have stopped sending out crews since before Christmas.

You now have entry teams of your own to break into houses but who secures them? Leave another Garda outside that house.

The owner, relative or neigbour/friend. We do not babysit raided houses with a warrant.

If traffic lights fail. You going to stay on the street till the council worker comes back?

Again no. We may cover the rush hour if we are not busy.

How about social serivces?

Again in the country social services would not affect us cos the service is not 24hrs so any children in danger are placed in a hospital.

Probation service?

??? They work on their own intiative without our help usually. I have never had to deal with the probation services but the courts do.

Court Clerks?

So the summons can wait for stamping. No biggy

dvpower

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

Secure is great. 290 bus drivers, about a years recruiting freeze on nurses (some places), All temp contract staff in most UDC's. Loads temp contract teaching staff. Losses in Special needs. We are just losing jobs slower and at less of a rate than the private sector.

My point is that an incumbent public servant in a permanent position is personally in a very secure position and for this, the levy is a relatively minor imposition.

They have a guaranteed job and a guaranteed pension. Many private sector workers are desperately worried that they will get that tap on the shoulder at any time and be out of work while at the same time they have seen their pension funds decimated.

A little bit of perspective is required.

Zuppy

Nog- A lot of our out of hours work here come from AGS. Which is fine. And its what we are paid to do. But my point is, if you have no one to pass on the oil spills (for example) to, who gets left babysitting the danger spot? As for being incorrect on it, it really depends which council your dealing with.
You have spotted a hazard and if there is no one to deal with it, is there not a duty of care to remain until the scene is made safe? As for Debris, haven't seen a Garda do that around here. Most cars I see don't seem to come with basic signage or cones. (yes I know the traffic ones do)

Most of this stuff will be fine on short actions. I am just putting it, that operationally, the AGS will have a lot more to do if a prolonged action is in place. You will end up picking up more of the daily slack.

As for effecting entry, you have cause to suspect person in danger (no warrant) you gain entry. No one home. Your going to leave the house open? Or in the care of a 'neighbour'?

As for Incumbent public servants. Seems most people don't realise that quiet a lot of them don't pay into pensions as it stood because the made so little all they got was the standard social welfare pension. Now they are being hit with a levy without ever being able to recieve from a fund.

This is a pay cut. Fair enough. But it comes out before tax. This also means if your a single parent or single breadwinner, your tax free allowance which is supposed to help those in need, is not factored in as this levy comes out before PRSI and the such. Hitting those less well off.

I said it before, no problem with shouldering my part of the solution. I am not happy with the unequal nature of it.

Eru

Im really getting fed up answering individual comments about what if this happens, etc. Deadwood already stated that we wont stick around and dont care if the various agencies dont do their jobs. We have done ours and are under no pobligation to cover anyone that strikes.

Just accept reality here folks, AGS can survive without civil servants. Afterall, we did manage to struggle on for the first 80 odd years :P

deadwood

Eru wrote: »

Im really getting fed up answering individual comments about what if this happens, etc. Deadwood already stated that we wont stick around and dont care if the various agencies dont do their jobs.

Eru, I resent being accused of making sensible comments!

Eru

dvpower wrote: »

My point is that an incumbent public servant in a permanent position is personally in a very secure position and for this, the levy is a relatively minor imposition.

They have a guaranteed job and a guaranteed pension. Many private sector workers are desperately worried that they will get that tap on the shoulder at any time and be out of work while at the same time they have seen their pension funds decimated.

A little bit of perspective is required.

People made choices. We chose the secure public sector, you and many others chose the more promising and lucrative private sector.

You cared not for our lower wages during the boom so why should we care about your job security?

BTW, you could have joined An Garda Siochana assuming you passed the requirements.

johnnyskeleton

Eru wrote: »

Agree with what your saying fully but I dont think you can expect the public sector to take the hit when there is, as yet, no sign of a similar hit in the private sector or more importantly, welfare.

The hit taken by the private sector is, for the most part, reflected in the massive increase in unemployment over the last year, and the continuing job losses. It should be bourne in mind that just because there is no one foul swoop to cut private sector wages, it doesn't mean that the private sector hasn't been hit. The reality is that the private sector lower paid have been much harder hit than the public sector lower paid, and the public sector lower paid were better paid than the lower paid private sector anyway.

But that is all beside the point - fair has nothing to do with it. Think of the government as a giant company. Once profitable, it is now making massive losses and it needs to balance the books. Government is not the bottomless money trough that it is often portrayed as, and there is a very real risk that the government will go bankrupt unless it cuts its costs. So, like the giant company (lets, for dramatic effect say a steel mill in 1980s USA) the boss says to his employees you can either take a pay cut or we can close up shop and the factory will be moved to Eastern Europe. It's the exact same with government.

As regards welfare, I agree that welfare needs to be cleaned up, and jobseeker's allowance could be reduced slightly, but at the end of the day welfare payments often go to the poorest members of society and those facing hard times, so I'm not sure they should be the main target of cuts.

Eru wrote: »

If the government announced an initiative across all sectors to reduce expenses and help get the country back on its feet you would probable see the public sector agree.

I don't think so. The public sector have very strong unions and political affiliations. They, naturally enough, will try to get the best deal possible for themselves irrespective of what the country is going through. When the PS union officials ask for equal reductions for the private sector, they are being disingenuous as for the reasons set out above, the private sector are taking the biggest hammering at the moment.