Civil Public and Services Union Plan Strike - Garda Stations To Be Hit

metman

johnnyc wrote: »

if you dont believe me go down to the social welfare office and the count the number of people who use to pay your pension

Ironic then isn't it that Gardai are now paying their social.

cushtac

johnnyc wrote: »

and if you dont believe me go down to the social welfare office and the count the number of people who use to pay your pension

Like public servants don't pay tax & pensions themselves...

johnnyc

cushtac wrote: »

Like public servants don't pay tax & pensions themselves...

i never said public servants don't pay taxes but your are all well paid and the return of your pensions is massive compared to every private sector pension.

cushtac

johnnyc wrote: »

i never said public servants don't pay taxes but your are all well paid and the return of your pensions is massive compared to every private sector pension.

If we're all well paid then why does the pension levy start at €15k? There's thousands of public servants earning around €25k & less a year, try telling them that they're well paid & can afford the levy.

johnnyc

johnnyc wrote: »

i never said public servants don't pay taxes but your are all well paid and the return of your pensions is massive compared to every private sector pension.

I'm on €27000 before tax, less than what I was on in my previous private sector job. Last year in training I earned €11000. I still had to pay my mortgage during training, plus bills and pay my own way between Dublin and Templemore. I've mentioned before that almost everybody in my class took out loans so they could afford to survive training. We are now paying these loans off. And this great pension that we will all get if we manage to survive the 30yrs service required to qualify for it it not optional. We pay 6.5% of our weekly wage (before the levy comes in) whether you want a pension or not. And if you want a massive pension then I don't think that there is any reason why cannot go into any financial institution and sign up for one. They are available to everybody.

I, and I think most public servents are mostly unhappy about being singled out with this levy while the private sector makes no additional contribution. And while I know that not everybody in the private sector does not earn high wages there are still a large proportion of people who can afford to pay more but will not.

johnnyc

foreign wrote: »

I think most public servents are mostly unhappy about being singled out with this levy while the private sector makes no additional contribution. And while I know that not everybody in the private sector does not earn high wages there are still a large proportion of people who can afford to pay more but will not.

Thats the public sectors preconception that you are being singled out. I have taken a 20 per cent pay cut and you dont see me marching on the street or taking a strike...You earn alot more then people in the private sector have a massive pension, which if you were in the private sector you wouldn't get an index linked pension, maybe the public sector should realize that many people who have lost there jobs also have mortages and other bills.

An Ri rua

Eru wrote: »

Agree with what your saying fully but I dont think you can expect the public sector to take the hit when there is, as yet, no sign of a similar hit in the private sector or more importantly, welfare.

If the government announced an initiative across all sectors to reduce expenses and help get the country back on its feet you would probable see the public sector agree.

By 'welfare' I can only assume you mean stuff like children's allowance etc. If you mean basic Jobseeker's allowance or jobseeker's benefit, then I don't see how you could claim that welfare is too high? Just because its higher outside of Ireland, across the EU? Then of course the same argument applies to public service pay; which is of course what they should have attacked, not the pension provision. And welfare could then decrease (marginally) while also taxing higher incomes and introducing a maximum wage threshold.

An Ri rua

metman wrote: »

Ironic then isn't it that Gardai are now paying their social.

Ironic? That's just not how a market economy works Metman. The people who are queuing up in the social welfare office should all have been a aprt of the productive economy. The Garda is not a part of the productive economy. Of course we need the Gardaí and without them our daily lives would be miserable. That's a given.

But a people must produce wealth (in competition with other states) in order to produce taxes to pay for public servants. This is not a dig at you. But you cannot say that the garda is now paying for their social welfare. That is not correct. The welfare and the garda wage are all coming from the same pot Which has just got a lot smaller. Our biggest problem is that we haven't been producing wealth for the last 8 years :-( We've been navelgazing and building houses, instead of producing and exporting and then building houses and lifestyles from those gains. We are truly in a bad place folks, make no mistake about it. Default is possible.

Public servants (the vast majority who are victims like the vast majority of private sector workers) are in danger of losing their jobs if this situation worsens. It hasn't happened in the past (in general) but it will. Look at California and other former powerhouse economies and see the writing on the wall. Its all about 'balanced budgets' in Europe (and Stateside) and if our govt doesn't fix things quickly, we may end up defaulting. Then no one gets paid. But further up your ranks, there are those who command too much salary. You know this? It was the same in private sector but its like a slaughter-zone now.

This has the potential to make the 1980s look like 2002, a spring walk, a hiccup. I recommend a quick read of www.moneyandmarkets.com and www.moneyweek.com for a taste of how far off course we are. We are more in debt that than the people of Japan!! This is crazy. You know there must be savage pain?
It will be the farmers v the teachers v the nurses v the private sector v the man on the dole v the girl behind the desk in the dole office. Do you think any one of those groups is responsible for our current woes? Wake up please!

The temptation to knock others is satisfying but short-term. Until you know a public servant who doesn't seem to be creaming it after all, a man on the dole who is desperately trying to find work but where?? A farmer who sold 2 sites in the boom, after 20 years of crap income, and everyone reckons he's loaded now!

We can imagine archetypal baddies in our lives; the extremes as the general. But that's not the case. 95% of us are getting by, despite what we drive / live in. Who owns anything??? Government though, we should be very angry with them; and show it. They are supposed to ensure society works for the longterm. For most of us. It isn't and they are failing us.

No one wants to suffer wage cuts. No one. Nor should you without a fight. BUT... many people now have no job salary to cut !? That is where we are at. Not last September's deception by government in entering into pay talks with no shillings in their pockets.

Those of you who are backing your unions should also question their loyalties during the good times. I believe they also forgot who their masters were and let social structures ease us into the nightmare we're now in. The social partners did not use that partnership as effectively as they could have.

Public servants are getting a raw deal as long as government chooses to stabilise non-relevant merchant banks at the expense of ordinary Irish folk; who deserve better vision and determination than any government (bar Lemass) has been able to muster so far.

God help us

An Ri rua

Eru wrote: »

Johnny,
Theres some 1 hundred thousand people who have never worked, dont tell me they have tried. Why should I take a cut when these guys dont?

Besides, you can say what you like but the simple reality is Gardai are still needed and in an important sector with NO UNION

Gardai and the army and other vital services are of course needed and will always be needed. But the use of strike should be sparingly used in order for the goodwill and credibility of the uniform to be maintained. That's just my view. Its not a job, its a vocation. And if its treated as a vocation , then others will treat it so too. But if its treated as a job, the public empathy goes downhill quickly.

There are of course people on long-term allowance that have never worked. That core of people were there during the boom also. many are unemployable in the sense of what employer would have them (not an attack on personal character, more on attitudes and skills). I would see an attack on them though as reasonably pathetic. Lets suppose half of them would like to work but are continuously turned down in job apps. What then? Reduce their €200 to €100? What does that serve? Is it not more appropriate to look at child benefit and how it contributed to house prices going up? In excess overtime being paid to Gardai resulting in many personal anecdotes where gardaí own 2+ houses (or have mortgages for) because the banks threw it at them? They did. And you know this.

I believe it is inevitable that social welfare will be cut. But if you believe that it will be cut before wage-earning individuals (no matter what level you believe it to be at vis a vis other countries for instance), then you are on another planet.
€200 may be a lot of money for doing nothing BUT its not a lot of money. No matter what way you look at it. There are longterm unemployed. But they have just been dwarfed by a tidal wave of shortterm unemployed. How do you plan to differentiate? JB and JA won't cut it. Life's not that simple unfortunately.

As long as Ireland is in our control, perhaps your view of how Ireland's pay strata should be will prevail. But if the IMF or ECB step in, expect VERY balanced budgets and deeper cuts on your salary, not just your pension. Its not fair, but its very very possible the way things are shaping up this summer.

An Ri rua

cushtac wrote: »

Like public servants don't pay tax & pensions themselves...

Of course they do. No one denies that. But its paid by the same source that rakes it in and gives it out. That's not a real economy. Its the exact argument that is often used by PS unions to say why the cuts shouldn't happen (they get it all back anyway).

The government is pulling the oldest trick in the book, setting one group against another. Meanwhile, the real money is being earned (had disappeared abroad) in the top tier of the pyramid.

There seems to be an underlying assumption across all these threads that work is a pain in the ass and something we must be paid for. Of course we must be paid but if anyone has experienced unemployment when wanting to work, its an awful thing. I am not saying take cuts because you are lucky to have a job. I AM saying that it is lucky to have a job. A purpose. Thousands of people are beginning to despair around Ireland. Don't forget this. There is no one in the hotels, the car dealerships, the spas etc etc. Does anyone think that the majority of people in the service industry (hotels, take your pick) were on megabucks? Like the PS worker, they weren't. Simple as.

Just like the way the Brit security services love to divide and conquer, the same is happening to all of us now. We're all victims in a crime with no perpetrator. Except that's not true. There has been a giant vacuuming / transfer of wealth ongoing and most of us have just bet the house and lost.

There is money in Ireland. Plenty of it. But, strange as it seems, government does not have it. They should, but they don't. And that's part of their damnation also

Straighttalker

it is a disgrace how the gardai are being treated by the government.
Pension levy? De Facto paycut. Public Sector workers did not benefit as much as private sector workers during the boom Now times are hard and public sector workers are public enemy no 1. I certainly do not get paid enough by the government to do the job i do and can not afford this paycut whatsoever. The government has spat in the face of men and women who provide an outstanding service to this country. I hope Mr Cowen is looking forward to upcoming local elections.

johnnyc

An Ri rua wrote: »

There is money in Ireland. Plenty of it. But, strange as it seems, government does not have it. They should, but they don't. And that's part of their damnation also

Your dreaming alot of peope who had wealth lost it in the current economic collapse property and shares. Alot of the public sector are costing too much its that simple. Bench marking is a sham, we all want to work in the public sector now.

Eru

johnnyc wrote: »

You seem to have a simplistic answer about the choice of jobs in the public sector. I dislike comments that everybody who worked in the private sector made millions which aint true. Most of the people who are well off work in the public sector now.

Yep. Most of the countries millionaires have suddenly become public sector workers. Get real, the money is where its always been. In the minorities pockets but private pockets still. Name any public sector worker who make the top 100 earners last year or even the last decade? Not going to happen.

johnnyc wrote: »

I have another comment stop moaning about this leavy as the country cant afford you,

Well guess what, the country still needs me so perhaps they should cut welfare instead of my income because while you need me I sure as hell dont need more unemployed builders.

johnnyc wrote: »

Your dreaming alot of peope who had wealth lost it in the current economic collapse property and shares. Alot of the public sector are costing too much its that simple. Bench marking is a sham, we all want to work in the public sector now.

Thats why your all sitting on the dole then is it? Because they cant get you into uniform fast enough? Wake up and smell the coffee. You didnt and wouldnt do my job, instead you choice the private sector. Its not a new situation here, public sector has always been secure but less rewarding. You chose the riskier but more rewarding private sector. I chose to join AGS.

I will say this though, so many are happy to watch this Roman circus instead of asking the real questions from those responsible.

johnnyc

Eru wrote: »

Well guess what, the country still needs me so perhaps they should cut welfare instead of my income because while you need me I sure as hell dont need more unemployed builders.

So how would u solve it.. More of a pay rise and have no pay cut.. And let the plebs in the private sector pay for your pensions.. You have to realise those unemployed builders did pay for your bench marking, through stamp duty etc.

Eru wrote: »

Thats why your all sitting on the dole then is it? Because they cant get you into uniform fast enough? Wake up and smell the coffee. You didnt and wouldnt do my job, instead you choice the private sector. Its not a new situation here, public sector has always been secure but less rewarding. You chose the riskier but more rewarding private sector. I chose to join AGS.

What the hell are you on about. Alot of people would do your job with all the benefits it had. The people in the public sector are well paid compared to private sector. heres my proof
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/01/13/story29568.asp

Eru

johnnyc wrote: »

So how would u solve it.. More of a pay rise and have no pay cut.. And let the plebs in the private sector pay for your pensions.. You have to realise those unemployed builders did pay for your bench marking, through stamp duty etc.

I paid stamp duty on my home. The person that built my house did not. Benchmarking awarded 0% to Gardai BECAUSE of our pensions. Were now on our third hit because of our FORCED not optional pension. We also pay 6% or more towards our pensions every week. Now factor in that we do not get the state pension which you will get. Now add in that Gardai on average live for 5 years after retirement compared to 15 years in the private sector. When you see the reality surrounding the pension you will see its not the great cherry everyone has been fooled into thinking it is and please for the loove of god get this through your head, GARDAI PAY TAX! How many times does it need to be said before you stop refering to yourself as a tax payer while excluding other tax payers?

johnnyc wrote: »

What the hell are you on about. Alot of people would do your job with all the benefits it had. The people in the public sector are well paid compared to private sector. heres my proof
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/01/13/story29568.asp

That proves absolutely nothing when you actually read the full article but of course you didnt because you just look at headlines. 29% in the public sector compared to 26 or 27% in the private means that increases have been across the board. How does that prove your point?

Government are included in those figures so take their increases out and the public sector went up by less than the private sector. How does that prove your point?

Public sector worked 32 hours but Gardai work a standard 40 hour week with the reduction as a result of PART TIME workers. Gardai therefore worked on average 12% more. How does that prove your point?

40% of the increase was as a result of increased employment not wage increases. How much actually was because of increased wages considering that figure also allows for increases in other areas of employment. How does that prove your point?

Public workers earned 8 to 10% more than private sector opposites. Who do you compare Gardai to? Security in your local supermarket? Hardly accurate or fair.

Prison officers? To security guards sitting in a warehouse. Hardly accurate or fair either.

Soldiers? Ha, Im luaghing at even the thought of there being a private sector alternative.

Doctors? Nurses? Teachers? Firemen? Binmen? Come on then, who are their private sector opposites please and what do they earn?

johnnyc wrote: »

Alot of people would do your job with all the benefits it had.

Thankfully thats true. Theres a lot of people that want to be Gardai. I suggest they join a security company seeing as they are paid the same with less hours, danger and hassle.

You, I note, are not one of them.

johnnyc

Eru wrote: »

I paid stamp duty on my home. The person that built my house did not. Benchmarking awarded 0% to Gardai BECAUSE of our pensions. Were now on our third hit because of our FORCED not optional pension. We also pay 6% or more towards our pensions every week. Now factor in that we do not get the state pension which you will get. Now add in that Gardai on average live for 5 years after retirement compared to 15 years in the private sector. When you see the reality surrounding the pension you will see its not the great cherry everyone has been fooled into thinking it is and please for the loove of god get this through your head, GARDAI PAY TAX! How many times does it need to be said before you stop refering to yourself as a tax payer while excluding other tax payers?

Yes you didnt receive a bench mark because of salary and the massive pension. Maybe it should be optional if you dont want a pension to get a higher salary. Wheres the link for that statement ' average live for 5 years after retirement compared to 15 years in the private sector' The pension is a massive cherry its index linked and you contribute just 6%. YES CAN U GET THIS THE GOVERMENT GET INCOME FROM THE PRIVATE & PUBLIC SECTOR AND DISTRIBUTE IT THROUGH TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

Eru wrote: »

Doctors? Nurses? Teachers? Firemen? Binmen? Come on then, who are their private sector opposites please and what do they earn?
.

Doctors, Nurse=GP'S, Bons Hospital(more) but you have private insurance. Private doctors do a better job
Teachers=Clongowes etc(more) but they have to deliver result compared to public teacher
Binmen= Killarney Waste Disposal Private company(less) and no strikes
Firemen= Most are voluntary with exceptions of cities and large town(none)

cushtac

johnnyc wrote: »

Firemen= Most are voluntary with exceptions of cities and large town(none)

They're voluntary but they're still paid, they don't do it for nothing.

deadwood

johnnyc wrote: »

Doctors, Nurse=GP'S, Bons Hospital(more) but you have private insurance. Private doctors do a better job
Teachers=Clongowes etc(more) but they have to deliver result compared to public teacher
Binmen= Killarney Waste Disposal Private company(less) and no strikes
Firemen= Most are voluntary with exceptions of cities and large town(none)

I think your idea of a "private" hospital is a little confused/juvenile. And "private" doctors doing a better job? We'll leave that one to speak for itself. I suppose the "private" cleaners, porters, nurses etc do a better job too?

Teachers in private schools are paid for by the state.

The binmen? Well the culchies have been paying for that for years. Only the Dubs have a problem with that one! (Eru has been cooped up too long inside the Pail - he gets nose bleeds west of the Red Cow.)

And the firemen are volunteers, but get a modest retainer for their services.

Paulzx

johnnyc wrote: »

Firemen= Most are voluntary with exceptions of cities and large town(none)

There is no such thing as volunteer fire departments in this country. There are full time and part time( retained ). All are paid and all have pension entitlements.

You still havent answered what private sector salary you can compare firefighters and gardai to.

People laughed at our salaries during the boom when they recieved their fat bonuses and pension top ups into their into their share linked private pensions. Now that the **** has hit the fan the private sector seems to want 360,000 public servants on the dole alongside them.

Eru

johnnyc wrote: »

The pension is a massive cherry its index linked and you contribute just 6%. YES CAN U GET THIS THE GOVERMENT GET INCOME FROM THE PRIVATE & PUBLIC SECTOR AND DISTRIBUTE IT THROUGH TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

6% of my gross income, not 6% of the actual pension payments. How much do you pay to your pension? Its guaranteed, yep sure is. If yours insnt then perhaps you should shop around and if the end payments are not enough look on the bright side, you still get 230 a week from the state pension. I on the other hand do not. So thats even less that I pay tax for.

johnnyc wrote: »

Doctors, Nurse=GP'S, Bons Hospital(more) but you have private insurance. Private doctors do a better job)

You do realise whats required to become a GP dont you? Or to work in a private hospital? And a private hospital still has nurses and doctors. Its the same job but with the private sector paying 33% more!!! (http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=11879)

johnnyc wrote: »

Teachers=Clongowes etc(more) but they have to deliver result compared to public teacher

Hmmm, another dodgy one Im afraid. Private schools employ teachers from the exact same place as public schools with the wages being paid by the department of education. Again, ITS THE SAME JOB WITH THE SAME EMPLOYER!

johnnyc wrote: »

Binmen= Killarney Waste Disposal Private company(less) and no strikes

Less what? I dont understand your ranting and do YOU know what they are paid?

Ah, I wont go on, you have not got a clue about the subject. Come back when you know your facts because until you do, this is pointless.

johnnyc

What are the key advantages of a public sector pension compared to a private sector pension?

All public sector pensions are guaranteed by the State whereas private sector pensions are not (as workers in Waterford Crystal have found out). Due to their "defined benefit" schemes, public sector workers are guaranteed 50pc of their final salary when they retire. Many private sector workers are on "defined contribution" schemes which don't provide a guaranteed level of retirement income.

Any other advantages?

The size of the pension payment is linked directly to the salary scale of a pensioner's former employment. This means that as wages rise for public sector workers, there are also similar rises in the pensions of retired public sector workers.


How much are public sector workers' pensions worth compared to the private sector?

But last December, the 'Pension Insecurity in Ireland' study released by UCD academics Dr Shane Whelan and Michael Moloney disputed this. They said the true figure was 30pc when the one million private sector workers without a pension were taken into account. They said a civil servant with an average salary of €45,240 was getting a State-guaranteed pension worth €13,572 a year (in salary terms).

Heres the link. Thats a snipet of there report.
http://www.cardi.ie/news/publicpensionsthestickingpointexplained

Theres no point at the moment in having a private pension when u are losing money due to the financial crisis.

Esel

Eru wrote: »

Now add in that Gardai on average live for 5 years after retirement compared to 15 years in the private sector.

Do you mean 'live for 5 years after normal retirement age (i.e. 65)'? Because if not, I would have thought this amazing (to me) fact would have been publicised many times. Even if it 5 years after 65, it would still amaze me. Can you give a cite for this?

Eru

johnnyc wrote: »

What are the key advantages of a public sector pension compared to a private sector pension?

All public sector pensions are guaranteed by the State whereas private sector pensions are not (as workers in Waterford Crystal have found out). Due to their "defined benefit" schemes, public sector workers are guaranteed 50pc of their final salary when they retire. Many private sector workers are on "defined contribution" schemes which don't provide a guaranteed level of retirement income.

Any other advantages?

The size of the pension payment is linked directly to the salary scale of a pensioner's former employment. This means that as wages rise for public sector workers, there are also similar rises in the pensions of retired public sector workers.


How much are public sector workers' pensions worth compared to the private sector?

But last December, the 'Pension Insecurity in Ireland' study released by UCD academics Dr Shane Whelan and Michael Moloney disputed this. They said the true figure was 30pc when the one million private sector workers without a pension were taken into account. They said a civil servant with an average salary of €45,240 was getting a State-guaranteed pension worth €13,572 a year (in salary terms).

Heres the link. Thats a snipet of there report.
http://www.cardi.ie/news/publicpensionsthestickingpointexplained

Theres no point at the moment in having a private pension when u are losing money due to the financial crisis.

no one is disupting the pension is good but private workers can avail of guaranteed pensions as well should they so choose. Its also a case that the more you pay the more you get back in any pension. Thats standard plus you do get the state pension of 230 per week if you paid enough tax whereas Gardai do not get that portion of the pie. Now an extra 20euro a week for 40 years paying tax is a disgrace but thats for another day.

How many times will the pension be taken into consideration before its accepted that we have earned it? Benchmarking reflects our better pension in every report and now another hit for something we cannot opt out of. Thats important to remember, we have no choice we MUST pay into this pension, we cant shop around. Please also remember that in bad times pensions go down for certain workers as you have stated, but they also go up in good times.

I wont even go into the 30% mentioned above, I should get a better pension than someone who never paid into a scheme!

Again, its the security of public sector V the better gains but higher risk private sector. At different stages each appears better. Now its public but for the past decade its been the private sector and Im betting it will be again long before I see the pension.

esel wrote: »

Do you mean 'live for 5 years after normal retirement age (i.e. 65)'? Because if not, I would have thought this amazing (to me) fact would have been publicised many times. Even if it 5 years after 65, it would still amaze me. Can you give a cite for this?

Can you show me the stats for life expectancy in any career in Ireland? The Irish just dont do studies on a national scale outside of the CSO and thats not very detailed. Its not limited to Gardai, firemen and nurses plus anyone who spends an entire career working the hours and shifts we do is going to drop sooner than the national average. Thats just reality. Heres some Links:

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/Shift-Survival.htm

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41769

http://energy.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/594040?UserKey=

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s372491.htm

johnnyc

Eru wrote: »

How many times will the pension be taken into consideration before its accepted that we have earned it? Benchmarking reflects our better pension in every report and now another hit for something we cannot opt out of. Thats important to remember, we have no choice we MUST pay into this pension, we cant shop around. Please also remember that in bad times pensions go down for certain workers as you have stated, but they also go up in good times.

Eru lets say the benchmarking body was setup today and people in the private sector have taken pay cuts of 20% 2008 to keep there jobs, and the public sector last year 2007 were ahead by 20%, that would mean a massive pay cut.

Can you name the last time you have seen pensions in the public sector go down prob 1980.

Eru wrote: »

I wont even go into the 30% mentioned above, I should get a better pension than someone who never paid into a scheme!

Again, its the security of public sector V the better gains but higher risk private sector. At different stages each appears better. Now its public but for the past decade its been the private sector and Im betting it will be again long before I see the pension.

My opinion people in the public sector deserve less money then in the private sector as you said it is more risker, and that should be reflected.

You deserve a good pension putting your life at risk, but do you realise people who put there money in private pensions have lost a considerable lot due to the market crash and companies closing.

An Ri rua

johnnyc wrote: »

Your dreaming alot of peope who had wealth lost it in the current economic collapse property and shares. Alot of the public sector are costing too much its that simple. Bench marking is a sham, we all want to work in the public sector now.

I think, as Eru points out elsewhere, you're not a great reader Johhnyc.

I never said that lots of people in Ireland still had money. I said there's still lots of money in Ireland. The devil is in the detail, old bean.

I think you may be daydreaming instead of allowing the necessary blood to flow to your eyes, carrying the necessary oxygen to permit accurate perception of what lies before you

johnnyc

An Ri rua wrote: »

I think, as Eru points out elsewhere, you're not a great reader Johhnyc.

I never said that lots of people in Ireland still had money. I said there's still lots of money in Ireland. The devil is in the detail, old bean.

I think you may be daydreaming instead of allowing the necessary blood to flow to your eyes, carrying the necessary oxygen to permit accurate perception of what lies before you

Ok maybe the necessary oxygen aint going to your eyes as well an ri rua, the name is johnnyc not Johhnyc . Tell me who has the money and the amount raised by taxing then. Look this is what i am seeing the public sector wage bill is getting bigger, the department of education spends 80% on wages, that has to change.

Eru

johnnyc wrote: »

Look this is what i am seeing the public sector wage bill is getting bigger, the department of education spends 80% on wages, that has to change.

Every companies wage bill gets bigger when they recuit more staff. Thats a universal truth.

And yes, 80% on wages if a joke. It clearly shows how underfunded our education system is. Increase the education budget and make the number more like 50% on wages and 50% on schools and facilities.

westcoastboy

The Civil Service wage bill has gotten bigger simply, because since the early nineties we have seen an increase in the population, this increase in population needs a corresponding increase in support (i.e. Teachers, nurses, Health workers).
The majority of Civil Servants are earning less than €50,000. these people pay taxes, (Customs, Excise,VRT,VAT and PAYE).
A person who has never worked in their lives or never declared their income will recieve around €220 a week in "Pension".
A Civil servant who joined after 1995, pays full PRSI (7.75%),pension of 6% and now a new pension levy of 7.75%. All for what, a pension from the state of €400 a week approx.
Your looking at the wrong people. Our Politicians who got us into this mess and they did get us into the mess! get expenses and pensions after three years in some cases,
Look at the the money that is been wasted on flying TDs around the place some of them like using the Govt Jet at €8,000 an hour! how many Nurses or Special needs Teachers could be employed to care for our weakest members of society, with all the squandered Billions!

Hope they enjoy their nights around the world on the taxpayers behalf this St Patricks Day!

Esel

Bertie currently receives €160,000 p.a. pension on top of his TD's salary, plus a special office suite!

westcoastboy

esel wrote: »

Bertie currently receives €160,000 p.a. pension on top of his TD's salary, plus a special office suite!

Not to mention a Garda driver and a merc.. what does a Nurse or anyone get after 40 years service..