Public Sector Unions to Take Action

K-9

EF wrote: »

Interest rates can drop to zero but people will still be unable to pay their mortgages with little incomes. Who will pay the mortgage interest supplement? The private sector? More taxes so and less competitiveness.

Ah, you are getting it. Competitiveness. Tax Revenues keep falling but Public Sector pay as a percentage keeps rising.

EF wrote:

The public sector will have their past pay increases eroded partially through this pension levy anyway. No pay rises will be happening thats for sure and inflation will return. If you get your way the public sector pay bill will be reduced by 20% so that more than accounts for 5 years of pay increases. And while a pay cut of 20% is unlikely, inflation, tax increases, a pay pause and a pension levy certainly goes some of the way!

I want a 20% cut, so I think tax increases, pay pauses and a levy is great.

K-9

EF wrote: »

Maybe this is an opportunity so for the private companies out there to exploit the natural resources of this country and be innovative perhaps? God knows alternative energy sources could be a hugely profitable business

They could. Awaits no planning objections.

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

Ah, you are getting it. Competitiveness. Tax Revenues keep falling but Public Sector pay as a percentage keeps rising.




I want a 20% cut, so I think tax increases, pay pauses and a levy is great.

Lets hope inflation returns because if delfation is here for the long term there will be less money to service debts flowing around in the economy and therefore less money spent on goods and services in the private sector = more job losses = an irrelevant cut on public sector expenditure

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

They could. Awaits no planning objections.

None here anyway, plus take the grant on offer!

K-9

EF wrote: »

Lets hope inflation returns because if delfation is here for the long term there will be less money to service debts flowing around in the economy and therefore less money spent on goods and services in the private sector = more job losses = an irrelevant cut on public sector expenditure

But wages will have to drop, so levies are less. Less tax revenues so less money to pay public servants.

Cue IMF.

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

But wages will have to drop, so levies are less. Less tax revenues so less money to pay public servants.

Cue IMF.

Public servants pay will drop dont you worry whether it's a big levy or some other form of "temporary refund adjustment" (the simpsons know all)

K-9

EF wrote: »

Public servants pay will drop dont you worry whether it's a big levy or some other form of "temporary refund adjustment" (the simpsons know all)

YEP, They were paid out of unsustainable Construction Boom Tax Revenues.

The economy is paying, Public Sector included I'm afraid.

Unfortunately it affects the Private Sector differently, job losses, companies closing, SW Rising.

Thems the breaks I'm afraid.

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

YEP, They were paid out of unsustainable Construction Boom Tax Revenues.

The economy is paying, Public Sector included I'm afraid.

Unfortunately it affects the Private Sector differently, job losses, companies closing, SW Rising.

Thems the breaks I'm afraid.

Yep. let's see how this debate pans out in public now. goodnight, and thanks for only taking 20% of my pay

K-9

EF wrote: »

Yep. let's see how this debate pans out in public now. goodnight, and thanks for only taking 20% of my pay

Thany You, I'm exhausted. I do understand were you are coming from, just think we are only seeing the start of the cuts.

The EU put it in perspective yesterday.

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

Thany You, I'm exhausted. I do understand were you are coming from, just think we are only seeing the start of the cuts.

The EU put it in perspective yesterday.

Fair enough. Id be obliged if you have the chance to respond to the points I made above which seem to have been ignored to some degree when you have a bit more energy i.e.

"The Dell workers, waterford crystal workers, SR technics, Bulmers employees would still be in a job today if the cost of living in this country wasn't so expensive and paycuts could occur without leading to chronic repossessions"

"And we're all paying more than we can afford to recapitalise the banks. The future of this nation lies in the books of AIB and BOI! At least we know what the public sector pay bill is!!"

"Will exorbitant mortgage debt repayments be wiped out? I think not"

NewDubliner

Lemming wrote: »

Whilst new roads make long distance commutes more viable, they can also drastically reduce commute times thus lowering transport and labour costs (drivers hours, etc.) and there is the issue of the housing market that forced many people to move further afield in order to be able to afford anything at all..

People were lured out of the cities by building industry interests. We need to reverse this inefficient lifestyle policy, not throw more money at it.

Yenwod

ixoy wrote: »

Also marching though will be EOs and SOs whose wage could go up to 50k, which I would not put in the realm of low earners. I think smcarrick said the average age in the civil service was 53, which would probably mean most are near the top end of the pay rung. Now even so those wages aren't incredibly high, but at the top end of the rung they'd be quite decent for the roles.

It is only COs and SOs who are in the CPSU. EOs are in a different union with the higher grades.

ixoy wrote: »

Damn straight, that would be infuriating and it's no wonder so many COs/EOs, etc are disgusted with the government on seeing that.

Question: Would you (and any other COs, EOs, SOs) here be happier if you still had your 6-7.5% levy but those on the AP and higher-grade salaries were paying something like 15-20%? Would it feel more just (and at the same time net more money for the exchequer)?

Well I am no expert and wouldnt know what figures to put on it but yeah, like I said in my previous post, I myself am willing to stick with the levy the way it is if it goes up more for the higher grades. The cap of 9% is an absolute joke if they expect us to take a 6% hit. If the ministers were taking a 15% cut, then I'd say fine, let it go ahead.

K-9

EF wrote: »

Fair enough. Id be obliged if you have the chance to respond to the points I made above which seem to have been ignored to some degree when you have a bit more energy i.e.

"The Dell workers, waterford crystal workers, SR technics, Bulmers employees would still be in a job today if the cost of living in this country wasn't so expensive and paycuts could occur without leading to chronic repossessions"

Yep, if the cost of living wasn't so high wages wouldn't be as high. I suppose you could argue Dell would leave eventually anyway and to me, Waterford Crystal and Bulmers made bad business decisions, but Yep, wages and the cost of living would be a factor.

Public Sector wages were benchmarked to these high wages and the cost of living to.

EF wrote:

"And we're all paying more than we can afford to recapitalise the banks. The future of this nation lies in the books of AIB and BOI! At least we know what the public sector pay bill is!!"

I'd say Anglo Irish is a bigger worry than AIB and BOI. Until we know the true crash in property values and commercial property bad debt, we will not know the full extent of the write offs. They could well need more capital.

EF wrote:

"Will exorbitant mortgage debt repayments be wiped out? I think not"

And personal responsibility too?

I've loads of sympathy for 1st time buyers in a 3/4 bed semi. I don't for people who traded up and used the same property boom they moan about, to finance 5/6 bedroom houses to keep up with the Jones, pay interior designers and refinance 08 4*4's!

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, if the cost of living wasn't so high wages wouldn't be as high. I suppose you could argue Dell would leave eventually anyway and to me, Waterford Crystal and Bulmers made bad business decisions, but Yep, wages and the cost of living would be a factor.

Public Sector wages were benchmarked to these high wages and the cost of living to.



I'd say Anglo Irish is a bigger worry than AIB and BOI. Until we know the true crash in property values and commercial property bad debt, we will not know the full extent of the write offs. They could well need more capital.



And personal responsibility too?

I've loads of sympathy for 1st time buyers in a 3/4 bed semi. I don't for people who traded up and used the same property boom they moan about, to finance 5/6 bedroom houses to keep up with the Jones, pay interior designers and refinance 08 4*4's!

I totally agree with you. I believe that there is an alternative to private sector firms shutting down and moving abroad however resulting in the loss of thousands of jobs here. The cost of living including the cost of the public sector, the costs of property and the cost of goods and services and labour needs to fall and fall together. I agree the unions could have spent longer in partnership talks and there is still room for negotiation.

Those private sector firms who have upped and left have left no more room for negotiation, which is a real shame as I believe a solution could have been found.

Until we know the full extent of the true position in AIB, BOI, ANGLO etc any pension levy while necessary is a shot in the dark really as we dont know what lies ahead.

Personal responsibility went out the window alright. If I was to buy an average 3 bed house in 2006 on my own it would have left me with a debt of 10 times my wages. Unfortunately those who did take the plunge and buy a family home are stuck in lifetime contracts of debt which will make their ability to reduce their wages very tough. A whole generation will suffer the falsity of the celtic tiger

K-9

EF wrote: »

Until we know the full extent of the true position in AIB, BOI, ANGLO etc any pension levy while necessary is a shot in the dark really as we dont know what lies ahead.

That really is a separate problem. The pension time bomb has been an issue for years and is another issue the Govt. ignored. Shame it takes a crisis to address it and then they completely make a hames of it.

If they explained properly the pensions crisis in future years maybe the levy may have been more acceptable?

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

That really is a separate problem. The pension time bomb has been an issue for years and is another issue the Govt. ignored. Shame it takes a crisis to address it and then they completely make a hames of it.

If they explained properly the pensions crisis in future years maybe the levy may have been more acceptable?

I would disagree to some extent that they aren't linked as it is taxpayers money which is being taken from the national pension reserve fund to pump into the current blackhole that are the banks to keep them afloat.

I totally agree that the pensions issue could have been handled better and tackled years ago. To me having a Minister for Finance who takes decisions and shapes budgets in the interest of politics rather than economics is and has shown to be a recipe for disaster. FF have come out now when the sh*t has hit the fan that they will now make the tough decisions in the interests of the State rather than to earn the popular vote, but they are 10 years too late.