[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

dave-higgz

Just got a letter in the door today informing me that I downloaded 358.05GB last month on my UPC 10mb Broadband.

They stated that even though my broadband cap is unlimited that there is a residential cap of 250GB per month.

There's no way I downloaded that much data. I have a windows home server which is constantly getting TV shows and movies but for me to have clocked up that much I would have had to download 1gb every 2 hours for an entire month!!!


Along with being threatened with disconnection, the usual lark, they also said that I might be automatically upgraded to their highest package, UPC broadband extreme (€79.99). I checked their website and along with there being no mention of a 250Gb cap there most certainly isn't a residential package that's 79.99. Will this be the anticipated 50mb service??

paulm17781

dave-higgz wrote: »

There's no way I downloaded that much data. I have a windows home server which is constantly getting TV shows and movies but for me to have clocked up that much I would have had to download 1gb every 2 hours for an entire month!!!

I'm on the 20 Mbps. I have downloaded 6Gb in under 3 hours. I wasn't paying attention to the time. If you're constantly getting TV shows and movies, then you probably did download that much.

Burning Eclipse

dave-higgz wrote: »

Just got a letter in the door today informing me that I downloaded 358.05GB last month on my UPC 10mb Broadband.

They stated that even though my broadband cap is unlimited that there is a residential cap of 250GB per month.

There's no way I downloaded that much data. I have a windows home server which is constantly getting TV shows and movies but for me to have clocked up that much I would have had to download 1gb every 2 hours for an entire month!!!


Along with being threatened with disconnection, the usual lark, they also said that I might be automatically upgraded to their highest package, UPC broadband extreme (€79.99). I checked their website and along with there being no mention of a 250Gb cap there most certainly isn't a residential package that's 79.99. Will this be the anticipated 50mb service??

I'm on the 10Mb connection too. I know they say there's no cap, but they do state that there's a fair use policy!

jor el

At least now you know the limit is 250GB, which is quite good, and they've not actually penalised you in any way, yet. Better than BT's 80GB anyway.

I'd take the warning, and stick to under 250GB. Remember too, that the 350GB they quote probably includes upload aswell as download.

dave-higgz

ok sorry let me explain, yes the server is running all the time backing up etc. but I've checked the speed regularly and it's always usually sitting at about 10% of the 10mb. And I just did a count of my recent downloads and they're at 200Gb MAX! I'm fairly sure UPC have calculated this wrong. Besides the videos, xbox and other usage is probably at 30Gb tops. That's over 300Gb in videos which, there is no way I've done, because the server only has a 500Gb HDD and I keep all the movies I get.

But anyway I will be cutting down on my downloads. However the principal of unlimited downloads which I signed up for has been breeched

jor el

Withe regard to "unlimited" usage, there is always a fair use policy. They rarely put a number on the fair use though, as they don't want to make it a target.

J-blk

I have a Windows Home Server too and I've installed this on it to try and keep track of things:

http://www.bandwidthmonitorpro.com/

It still won't give you an accurate figure for your total, because I imagine you are streaming video to your internal network and the upload will be very high after a couple of weeks (there's no way to monitor just the external traffic) - but it should at least give you an idea of the overall download amount (it can be set to reset back to 0MB every 1st of the month...).

Cabaal

I'd say 250GB is not a cap merely a FUP which all there packages have, there is no such thing as a unlimited ISP as outlined here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58094826&postcount=11

your fooling yourself if you believe there is

MrVestek

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd say 250GB is not a cap merely a FUP which all there packages have, there is no such thing as a unlimited ISP as outlined here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58094826&postcount=11

your fooling yourself if you believe there is

I beg to differ. The likes of IBB still offer a service on their Breeze network without a FUP. This may change however since their acquisition by the Imagine group. We all know what they're like considering the changes they brought about pretty swiftly on the Ripwave network, although in fairness to them I think that was for the greater good.

Yeah breeze is expensive but alot of people seem to overlook the fact that with DSL you need phone line, and with that over €20 a month in line rental fees alone so when you think about it realistically it all balances out.

Cabaal

Achilles wrote: »

I beg to differ. The likes of IBB still offer a service on their Breeze network without a FUP.

My point being if enough heavy users start using this service you'd very quickly see them start terminating users for network abuse or introducing a FUP or cap.

As an ISP you can only afford to have a certain % of heavy users before it starts affecting the bottom line

jimmycrackcorm

dave-higgz wrote: »

ok sorry let me explain, yes the server is running all the time backing up etc. but I've checked the speed regularly and it's always usually sitting at about 10% of the 10mb. And I just did a count of my recent downloads and they're at 200Gb MAX! I'm fairly sure UPC have calculated this wrong. Besides the videos, xbox and other usage is probably at 30Gb tops. That's over 300Gb in videos which, there is no way I've done, because the server only has a 500Gb HDD and I keep all the movies I get.

Somebody is using torrents methinks. The upload could match the download so your 400GB turns into 400Gb before you know it.

Cabaal

I've edited the thread title in-line with the charter so its clearer,

BlackJewel

Thanks Caabal for directing me here!
Yup i recieved such a letter too.
I would happily send them via email "I recived a threatening letter from you guys! OMG!"
Anyway my situation is different. I am sharing a 4 room house and each room is occupied and has a pc=laptop which has wireless.

I guess i wont be disconnected, they don't want to lose a client which maybe will pay them the double price...:o

Cabaal

BlackJewel wrote: »

Thanks Caabal for directing me here!
Yup i recieved such a letter too.
I would happily send them via email "I recived a threatening letter from you guys! OMG!"
Anyway my situation is different. I am sharing a 4 room house and each room is occupied and has a pc=laptop which has wireless.

I guess i wont be disconnected, they don't want to lose a client which maybe will pay them the double price...:o

UPC/NTL have sent out warning letters in the past...I think back in 2005 or so. (I got one myself for doing 350GB)

The letter did not state a limit or cap but merely stated the usage for a set period, after two warning letters were sent a third was sent advising the service would be terminated....very few people got these but I know of one or two people.

The same laytout may not apply this time, I guess your options are upgrade to highest package or cut back usage.

Its a pain but sure 250GB is still pretty reasonable imho

BlackJewel

250GB might be resonable, but with lot of ppl in the house, each wanting to do something else on their pc, i can;t ban anyone to dont use the net.. i guess the landlord wont have other option than just to update to UPC-B extreme..

Cabaal

BlackJewel wrote: »

250GB might be resonable, but with lot of ppl in the house, each wanting to do something else on their pc, i can;t ban anyone to dont use the net.. i guess the landlord wont have other option than just to update to UPC-B extreme..

Either that or ban P2P and file sharing sites as I'd imagine these are the likely causes of such high traffic

Blindpew

Cabaal wrote: »

Either that or ban P2P and file sharing sites as I'd imagine these are the likely causes of such high traffic

If you ban file sharing sites and torrent downloads what purpose would having 20mb download speed serve? Even the BBC iplayer will work perfectly with less than half that speed. What is the point of advertising "No Cap" as a selling point when they can terminate you after after 250gbs. I know I have said all this before in other threads but the problem resurfaces with every isp. They all use false advertising to get you to sign up to their service but then threaten to cut you off once you hit their hidden cap, a combined upload / download 250 gbs in UPCs case. That might mean that you had downloaded 150 gb and uploaded 100gb. The fair usage policy gives no indication of this ammount. They should not be allowed to advertise a No Cap service when there is in fact a 250gb upload and download combined cap.
In fairness to other isps most don't advertise a no cap product. Who ever controls false advertising needs to take UPC in hand and sort them out.

vibe666

dave-higgz wrote: »

Just got a letter in the door today informing me that I downloaded 358.05GB last month on my UPC 10mb Broadband.

dude, I beat you by just over 10gb.

369.94gb combined.

as the g/f keeps telling me with the credit card, it's a limit not a target.

seriously tho, they take what you download, add on what you upload to get that figure so it's not just what you download that counts so heavy duty torrenting of linux iso's (etc.;)) is going to be a heavy hitter.

interestingly enough, in an effort to push up my seeding ratio i actually uploaded considerably more than I downloaded in January but I'll have to put a stop to that now. so much for sharing.

ah well, as they say, 250gb is pretty generous and more than you'd get off anyone else. i just wish they'd come out and say it beforehand.

it's like anything else though, you expand to meet your limits. you could probably live on 10k a year if you really wanted to, but if you earned 100k in a year you'll probably still find a way to spend it.

incidentally, does anyone know if this *extreme* package is actually faster or just a higher limit (or none)?

would be cool if it was double everything. 40mbps down and 3mbps up with a 500gb FUP would be handy, but I honestly don't think even I could maintain the usage to make that practical.

Donald-Duck

BlackJewel wrote: »

250GB might be resonable, but with lot of ppl in the house, each wanting to do something else on their pc, i can;t ban anyone to dont use the net.. i guess the landlord wont have other option than just to update to UPC-B extreme..

Each wanting to do what that would make you reach that cap? Unless you're constantly torrenting blu-ray movies you won't reach it.

And if you have loads of people in the house doing that, your router will be ****ting itself anyway

Cabaal

Blindpew wrote: »

In fairness to other isps most don't advertise a no cap product. Who ever controls false advertising needs to take UPC in hand and sort them out.

Smart do but I'd imagine they have a FUP somewhere in their T&C's, no residential ISP can truly offer an uncapped product it just is not cost affective

vibe666

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Each wanting to do what that would make you reach that cap? Unless you're constantly torrenting blu-ray movies you won't reach it.

And if you have loads of people in the house doing that, your router will be ****ting itself anyway

i'm not torrenting blu-ray movies (or any other HD content) and i managed to exceed their FUP by over 100gb in January. there was a whole lot of torrenting, but my router is fine. you just need a decent router.

i'm actually torrenting right now whilst surfing the net and VPN'd into work and I can't even tell.

/smug (*sorry)

* but not really.

Cabaal

vibe666 wrote: »

i'm not torrenting blu-ray movies (or any other HD content) and i managed to exceed their FUP by over 100gb in January. there was a whole lot of torrenting, but my router is fine. you just need a decent router.

i'm actually torrenting right now whilst surfing the net and VPN'd into work and I can't even tell.

/smug (*sorry)

* but not really.

Ok put it this way you'd be very hard pressed to download in excess of 250GB of legal content from bittorrent or any other source,

vibe666

maybe, but where's the fun in that?

in all seriousness though, things move on.

speeds get faster, more content becomes available and what used to be considered a 'fair' limit on usage becomes more and more common and the boundaries are pushed further back in a continuing expansion and the circle of online life continues.

okay, so not 100% serious.

Cabaal

vibe666 wrote: »

speeds get faster, more content becomes available and what used to be considered a 'fair' limit on usage becomes more and more common and the boundaries are pushed further back in a continuing expansion and the circle of online life continues.

Agreed, caps do increase and you can see that across the board in Ireland where the basic caps on packages have gotten larger and some providers even have no caps or have a FUP with a generous guideline amount.

The problem for Ireland is there is nothing like BBC iPlayer yet which requires alot of bandwidth, is legal and will be used alot by the average joe. Ok sure there is 4onDemand but very few people use this.

Blindpew

Cabaal wrote: »

The problem for Ireland is there is nothing like BBC iPlayer yet which requires alot of bandwidth.

I have often used the BBC iplayer using a program to hide my ip address, very good quality it is too, RTE need to get something similar.

iano128

Looks like i win, apparently according to upc i did a total of 387.41gb in february. Shocked myself when i saw it not only cause i thought it was unlimited but because i thought it maybe was about 100gb max. I guess all those hd vidcast get you in the end but what can i say i love the hi-def video. I still find the whole hidden cap thing really annoying since when i ordered it i did ask was there some kind of cap and was told absolutely no, so of coure i jumped on the 20mb bandwagen. Then again before this i had a whole 1mb down with a 10gig mothly cap with digiweb so its still a massive jump. Just don't like being lied too.

vibe666 wrote: »

dude, I beat you by just over 10gb.

369.94gb combined.

as the g/f keeps telling me with the credit card, it's a limit not a target.

seriously tho, they take what you download, add on what you upload to get that figure so it's not just what you download that counts so heavy duty torrenting of linux iso's (etc.;)) is going to be a heavy hitter.

interestingly enough, in an effort to push up my seeding ratio i actually uploaded considerably more than I downloaded in January but I'll have to put a stop to that now. so much for sharing.

ah well, as they say, 250gb is pretty generous and more than you'd get off anyone else. i just wish they'd come out and say it beforehand.

it's like anything else though, you expand to meet your limits. you could probably live on 10k a year if you really wanted to, but if you earned 100k in a year you'll probably still find a way to spend it.

incidentally, does anyone know if this *extreme* package is actually faster or just a higher limit (or none)?

would be cool if it was double everything. 40mbps down and 3mbps up with a 500gb FUP would be handy, but I honestly don't think even I could maintain the usage to make that practical.

Oat23

Got a letter this morning saying that someone in my area complained of slow speeds and i was the problem, funny thing is. My street is one of the only one's in Sligo that can get UPC Broadband currently. And nobody else in my street has UPC BB:rolleyes:

Downloaded 269.94GB's.

vibe666

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Got a letter this morning saying that someone in my area complained of slow speeds and i was the problem, funny thing is. My street is one of the only one's in Sligo that can get UPC Broadband currently. And nobody else in my street has UPC BB:rolleyes:

Downloaded 269.94GB's.

yeah, it's a default template they use, usual story.

no letter this month (yet) but by my own calculations I came in at the following for feb:

down: 149.06 GB
up: 104.98 GB
total: 254.04 GB

slightly over, but who knows if they send out the mails as soon as you're 1mb over or 5-10gb.

donal.hunt

You may not be aware but NTL's modems do have SNMP daemons running so it's possible to expose the variables that indicate speed and throughput...

If you're already running a machine 24/7 then it makes sense to capture the SNMP data and have pretty graphs / data to determine what your upload / download for a month is.

You can also kindly remind UPC that they still haven't provided a means for customers to monitor their usage. However, I have to side with UPC in this case - using more than 250gb per month really is pulling the piss and drives up their costs substantially while degrading the service for others (especially when the data being uploaded / downloaded is of questionable content)...

vibe666

donal.hunt wrote: »

You may not be aware but NTL's modems do have SNMP daemons running so it's possible to expose the variables that indicate speed and throughput...

If you're already running a machine 24/7 then it makes sense to capture the SNMP data and have pretty graphs / data to determine what your upload / download for a month is.

You can also kindly remind UPC that they still haven't provided a means for customers to monitor their usage. However, I have to side with UPC in this case - using more than 250gb per month really is pulling the piss and drives up their costs substantially while degrading the service for others (especially when the data being uploaded / downloaded is of questionable content)...

i already have all that from my router, historical data and more graphs etc. than i can shake a stick at.

the content is largely irrelevant, i'm paying for a service advertised as unlimited.

if they are going to put limits on it then they need to be clearly defined, stated publicly up front and they need to provide a method of tracking that usage to their customers. if i can manage it on a 40€ consumer grade router then surely they should be able to do the same for everyone. every other ISP in the country can at least do that, so why not ntl?

right now my connection is sitting idle and this is all i can get out of it on speed tests.





there's a drastic lack of bandwidth available and if they can't provide 20mbps to their customers then they shouldn't be selling it.

paulm17781

donal.hunt wrote: »

If you're already running a machine 24/7 then it makes sense to capture the SNMP data and have pretty graphs / data to determine what your upload / download for a month is.

Thanks for that, I'm going to set this up for myself.