[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

anton

I've complained to comreg about 'Unlimited' plans and lack of download stats. Their reply is quite useless:

...

If you wish to raise a complaint regarding misleading advertising I would request that you contact the Advertising Standards Authority (ASAI)
...
While some operators do offer a facility to track download levels, they are not required to do so.

vibe666

anton wrote: »

I've complained to comreg about 'Unlimited' plans and lack of download stats. Their reply is quite useless:

...

If you wish to raise a complaint regarding misleading advertising I would request that you contact the Advertising Standards Authority (ASAI)
...
While some operators do offer a facility to track download levels, they are not required to do so.

dub45 has a link with the info in comreg's documentation that specifically states that ISP's are not allowed to call packages unlimited without qualifying the statement with AUP limits, but since UPC have finally started doing that, there's not much that can be done.

dub45

vibe666 wrote: »

dub45 has a link with the info in comreg's documentation that specifically states that ISP's are not allowed to call packages unlimited without qualifying the statement with AUP limits, but since UPC have finally started doing that, there's not much that can be done.

They may have started doing it but the location of where they display the limits and their totally illogical continuation of the usage of the word "unlimited" is an indication yet again of their lack of openness.

There should be three items readily available to customers in respect of any bb product irrespective of the isp:

Price, speed and cap. There is no excuse for the information not being readily available and if it isn't customers and prospective customers should draw their own conclusions about the integrity of the isps concerned.

That is really a disgraceful reply from Comreg - the ASAI are an absolute joke.

However UPC's abuse of the word "unlimited" goes beyond advertising as it is used quite regularly by them. I also fail to see how their upgrading of customers to a product which is not advertised and which a customer is not aware of when they sign up for UPC can stand up to scrutiny or is indeed in anyway ethical.

When we started highlighting UPC's abuse of the word "unlimited" people on here were critical of us but it is good to see that people here are increasingly realising that they are being deliberately deceived by this "unlimited" nonsense.

Comreg may say that there is no requirement on an isp to provide a facility to monitor usage well lets shame them into insisting on such a facility. Lets start threads on boards about Comreg's useleness to the consumer in the area of downloads, lack of action on the the "unlimited" deceit (there will be more pressure now in this area because Vodafone are ditching customers who impact on other customers") and Comreg's failure to ensure that customers are properly informed in writing of changes in Terms and Conditions.


Also surely if UPC wish to charge for "excess" usage on an unlimited product they should have to produce "evidence" of such usage.

Also people who pay by dd should remember that under the direct debit scheme disputed amounts should not be charged

Originators must put in place reliable systems and which will ensure:
o the issuance of correct advance notification as appropriate of amounts to be debited
o that Direct Debits as issued conform to Payer instructions and the Rules of the Scheme
o that disputed amounts are not debited
o that procedures for terminating the Direct Debit are put in place
o that the Originator will settle indemnity claims under or pursuant to the Scheme within 10 days
o that all other responsibilities of the Originator under or pursuant to the Scheme are adhered to

My emphasis - for those not familiar with dd terminology the originator is the billing company UPC in this case.

By the way the "unlimited" link is

http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/my_service_provider_has_advertised_an_%22unlimited_package%22___what_does_this_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

Nollog

anton wrote: »

I've complained to comreg about 'Unlimited' plans and lack of download stats. Their reply is quite useless:

...

If you wish to raise a complaint regarding misleading advertising I would request that you contact the Advertising Standards Authority (ASAI)
...
While some operators do offer a facility to track download levels, they are not required to do so.

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp
I'm going to do it tomorrow!

bk109

Okie,the good news is that apparently I can revert to the 40-ish € package soon, the bad news,it's actually going to cost me 10 bucks to revert from an involuntary upgrade which is total BS...
At least I identified the reason why my account is over 250,one of my genius housemates had left "Upload: Unlimited Speed" on his bittorrent client... Thank God I was too tired to break his laptop into itty-bitty pieces for the 180 gigs Upload that "facilitated"

vibe666

bk109 wrote: »

Okie,the good news is that apparently I can revert to the 40-ish € package soon, the bad news,it's actually going to cost me 10 bucks to revert from an involuntary upgrade which is total BS...
At least I identified the reason why my account is over 250,one of my genius housemates had left "Upload: Unlimited Speed" on his bittorrent client... Thank God I was too tired to break his laptop into itty-bitty pieces for the 180 gigs Upload that "facilitated"

i know who i'd be squeezing the money out of to pay the extra for it then.

bk109

vibe666 wrote: »

i know who i'd be squeezing the money out of to pay the extra for it then.

Already done,bc I'm going to spend most of my next billing period back so I'm going to pay only my fair share of 4 days and hopefully my absence will further drive down the usage so I can finally revert to Fibre 30

vibe666

bk109 wrote: »

Already done,bc I'm going to spend most of my next billing period back so I'm going to pay only my fair share of 4 days and hopefully my absence will further drive down the usage so I can finally revert to Fibre 30

or you could see if you can all chip in for the 100mbps if its available in your area? :cool:

bk109

I know I'm going to hate myself for writing it,but:
Link me up,'Scotty'!

Yo Buddy. You still alive?

How long does it take aup@upc to get back to people? I have been waiting...

I'm giving them till Monday and then stopping my direct debit!

bk109

In my case it was about 1.5 working days.

vibe666

i haven't had to email the AUP guys directly, but the (many) times i've emailed UPC in general its between 1-3 days response time.

bhickey

vibe666 wrote: »

..... but i wouldn't fancy their chances of getting €900 out of someone for broadband usage. :eek:

Well if they signed a direct debit and there's money in their account then ....

vibe666

bhickey wrote: »

Well if they signed a direct debit and there's money in their account then ....

precisely why i wouldn't sign a direct debit mandate in ireland. they just don't give a fcuk about the consumer here and i've had no end of trouble with DD's in the past, so i just don't use them any more and pay everything manually online.

CptSternn

I got one of those letters in October.

Yo Buddy. You still alive?

CptSternn wrote: »

I got one of those letters in October.

What I don't understand and maybe someone can enlighten me is... if a high user who has gone over the 250GB is causing a deterioration is the service locally how does putting them on an unlimited extreme connection help? Or is it not unlimited or?

Thor

Yo Buddy. You still alive? wrote: »

What I don't understand and maybe someone can enlighten me is... if a high user who has gone over the 250GB is causing a deterioration is the service locally how does putting them on an unlimited extreme connection help? Or is it not unlimited or?

It doesn't, The reason that is so UPC can make money on it and stop bothering you with nonsense. It makes absolute no difference to the other users and they do NOT change anything but the price on YOUR bill!!

Here is the problem i have, The 100mb says congestion free so i wonder how it will affect users if a person goes over the limit on the 100mb service.

Its over 3 times the speed but only double the cap! Seems odd, But if they considering the 250GB fair for 30mb and 15mb users, How can they consider the 500GB fair for 100mb users!!

Mech1

^ What he said ^ +1

vibe666

someone has mentioned before that when you get bumped to the €80 a month package they may be moving you to a different switch/circuit to the regular home users in your area so you don't affect them any more.

of course there's no real way to know for sure unless you can squeeze the info out of an engineer.

SexVicar

Just had a word with a fairly angry oul' one saying he is cancelling the service. Trying to convince him its a bad idea but looking at the stuff he forwarded me from the AUP e-mail. UPC's customer service has been shocking, to say the least. There has been no co-operation at all and if anything, extremely mercenary demands for payment from UPC's side with little to no explanation. When I travel back at Christmas, I will have a word with UPC myself on his behalf but this has been absolutely absurd and even with the best broadband in the country. Treating your customers with contempt is far from an ideal way to do business.

slave1

UPC website now updated with limits

# 15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
# 40GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb users,
# 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 10Mb and 15Mb users,
# 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
# 500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

slith

I reported them to the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland specifically on the grounds of advertising an unlimited product and then sending 'threatening' letters (I quote it because UPC themselves deny those letters being of a threatening nature) due to overuse of the bandwidth. Specifically, how their AUP did not contain any limit specifications and that the product was called 'unilimited', when it isn't.

So now they have updated the AUP.

But in their broadband products page they still list their Fibre Power Broadband products as unlimited in usage. This is deceptive and we shouldn't let go. I'd say keep the complaints going. They can't get away with this.

vibe666

slith wrote: »

But in their broadband products page they still list their Fibre Power Broadband products as unlimited in usage. This is deceptive and we shouldn't let go. I'd say keep the complaints going. They can't get away with this.

the problem is comreg as much as UPC> as far as comreg are concerned, as long as UPC qualify their *unlimited* service with details of the AUP limit they are acting within the rules.

until comreg change the rules there's feck all that can be done.

ALTHOUGH, i'm sure someone (usually Dub45, he knows all the useful legal stuff:)) posted that EU law says otherwise. hmmm.

dub45

vibe666 wrote: »

the problem is comreg as much as UPC> as far as comreg are concerned, as long as UPC qualify their *unlimited* service with details of the AUP limit they are acting within the rules.

until comreg change the rules there's feck all that can be done.

ALTHOUGH, i'm sure someone (usually Dub45, he knows all the useful legal stuff:)) posted that EU law says otherwise. hmmm.

I actually dont know the EU stuff so it wasnt me.

When will people accept once and for all that advertising products as "unlimited! which have defined caps (buried somewhere in an acceptable user policy) is lying, deliberate deception pure and simple.

There really should be zero tolerance for this sort of deliberately deceitful behaviour and of course UPC are not the only ones.

dub45

slave1 wrote: »

UPC website now updated with limits

# 15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
# 40GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb users,
# 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 10Mb and 15Mb users,
# 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
# 500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

Not updated on the main broadband page for "some strange reason"

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

I am sure the vast majority of users and potential customers would expect products with a cap to have that information readily available?

They simply cannot stop lying:

Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb

Downloading local maps, videos or photos? Then 20Mb is for you and with unlimited usage don’t be afraid to download again and again.

Ranicand

Two things here.

Two sides on the debate were there should be no debate.
UPC broadband is very good value and the caps are fair.

Lying calling their packs unlimited and sending out waning letters is just not on.


I think pressure on this board forced UPC to put the FUP caps on their site.
More pressure will force them to stop using the word unlimited.

I will defend UPCs packs they are very good value for money.

I will not defend UPC lying to hook people in.

dub45

Ranicand wrote: »

Two things here.

Two sides on the debate were there should be no debate.
UPC broadband is very good value and the caps are fair.

Lying calling their packs unlimited and sending out waning letters is just not on.


I think pressure on this board forced UPC to put the FUP caps on their site.
More pressure will force them to stop using the word unlimited.

I will defend UPCs packs they are very good value for money.

I will not defend UPC lying to hook people in.

I think the point has been on a number of occasions that there is absolutely no need for them to continue to lie and deceive people - in fact it is against their own interests as people find out very quickly indeed that they have been deceived.

In a recent post I highlighted a speech where one of their senior managers claimed that they wanted people to trust them. They must think people are idiots. They lie about products, don't inform customers properly about price increases or changes in Terms and Conditions.

As I have said before a company with excellent products and who behaved honestly would be unbeatable.

How can anyone trust a company that behaves as UPC do?

billyboy01

If you have other similar BB providers in your area with similar speeds, Dont bother wasting your time with UPC/AUP. Just take your money elsewhere!

vibe666

billyboy01 wrote: »

If you have other similar BB providers in your area with similar speeds, Dont bother wasting your time with UPC/AUP. Just take your money elsewhere!

the problem is, that unless you're in one of the very few places that have magnet fibre (or the increasingly mythical cablesurf), you're pretty much out of luck since DSL can't keep up and nobody else seems to be able to match UPC on price, speed or FUP.

dub45

billyboy01 wrote: »

If you have other similar BB providers in your area with similar speeds, Dont bother wasting your time with UPC/AUP. Just take your money elsewhere!

It is this sort of glib response that gives comfort to the likes of UPC. For various reasons people may wish or need to use the types of product that UPC offer. However in choosing a good or service in any business integrity and trust should not be an option or a choice for a customer it should be a given.

You should be able to choose a product or service in the knowledge of what you are buying. Figuring out what a "fair" user policy is or what "interfering with a network" means (a la Vodafone) should not be a requirement for a user.

UPC's lack of integrity should be a cause of concern for all consumers. If a company can get away with a major price increase (which at a conservative enough estimate could yield them €8m to €9m in a full year) without informing all of their customers directly in accordance with their own terms and conditions then why should any major company inform its customers of a an imminent price increase? UPC's behaviour meant that hundreds of thousands of their customers "sleepwalked" into the new pricing system on 4th January.

The behaviour of UPC illustrates the impotence of our supposed protectors like Comreg, NCA and ASA. And that encourages others. It is a race to the bottom all the time so long as they are allowed. If one isp has "unlimited" product then they will all have one. No "congestion" lets have a " no congestion" product too!!!

The numbers of posters on here recently criticising UPC has thankfully grown. UPC's attitudes havent changed people have just become more aware of them. Nothing like a letter telling you that you have gone over a cap on a supposedly "unlimited" product to remind you that you have been taken for a fool.

For example they did exactly the same thing last year iirc in respect of price increases. Hopefully more and more people will demand integrity as a given and not as an option.

UPC are only going to become more and more dominant in years to come unless there is a major development and that will only embolden them in their contempt for their customers and indeed their own terms and conditions.

Meanwhile the silence of UPC Jason is deafening!

Downloading local maps, videos or photos? Then 20Mb is for you and with unlimited usage don’t be afraid to download again and again