[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

Chett

So everyone with a 10Mb and 15Mb package is being upgraded to the 20Mb and paying an increased charge? What if I don't want and can't afford the 20Mb package?

I was paying for 15Mb and they've upgraded me to 30Mb which I'm sure is a mistake on their part. What's stopping me from withdrawing my money from that account and closing it and smashing the modem to bits? Do they try to take me to court? Has anyone done this?

dub45

Chett wrote: »

So everyone with a 10Mb and 15Mb package is being upgraded to the 20Mb and paying an increased charge? What if I don't want and can't afford the 20Mb package?

I was paying for 15Mb and they've upgraded me to 30Mb which I'm sure is a mistake on their part. What's stopping me from withdrawing my money from that account and closing it and smashing the modem to bits? Do they try to take me to court? Has anyone done this?

UPC have increased their prices without informing their customers as they should have. If this has happened to you then you are entitled to break your contract with them without penalty. You need to clarify what has happened specifically in your own case and then if it doesn't suit you. Decide on your course of action.

http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/is_my_service_provider_allowed_to_change_the_terms_and_conditions_of_a_package_i_have_signed_up_for_.1.202.LE.asp

Note: closing your account and smashing the modem to bits is not recommended for all sorts of reasons. If you do wish to close your account you now have the perfect opportunity. Just give the modem back to them too if you do!

80s Synth Pop

Comreg do not have any interest in the false advertising oxymoron of "unlimited" usage with a 250 GB limit.

---

Dear Sir,

Thank you for contacting ComReg. If you feel that UPC’s advertising of the product as unlimited is misleading, then I would request that you forward this complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASAI). The ASAI can be contacted on 01 6608766 or at standards@asai.ie .

Under the Consumer Protection Act of 2007, the National Consumer Agency also has the power to take action against companies who engage in misleading advertising. The NCA can be contacted on 1890 432432 or 01 4025555 or at ask@consumerconnect.ie .

Should you have any other queries or require any other assistance from me you can call our Consumer Team on 1890 229668 or 01 8049668.

Yours sincerely,

---

Chanquete

Got a letter in December (9th) warning me that I exceeded my limit in November. I was surprised since my habits are quite normal I would have assumed.

Nevertheless, since I could not afford paying for the "upgrade", I modified my internet settings and habits, changed my wireless password (just in case), and also disabled some apps which I suspected could be causing the large data transfer (things like a Perforce SVC proxy for connecting to work, which I believe was the main culprit).

When I got the letter, and a couple of times afterwards, I contacted the AUP team in UPC and queried about my usages in December. This is are the numbers they gave me:

Week 1 : 58Gb Total
Week 2 : 61Gb Total
Week 3 : 13Gb Total

I got the letter during Week 2 hence the initial large volumes (before my changes). I don't have the numbers for week 4 but if anything they should be even lower.

My whole family has spent virtually the whole month of January in hospital so usage in January should be in the Megabytes rather than Gb.

Today, back at home, I checked my bank accounts and noticed that UPC has upgraded and charged me with the Extreme package in January (7th) despite me being totally compliant from the moment I got the first (and only) warning.

Being a Saturday now I have to wait till Monday to try to sort out the situation. I am raging :mad:

dub45

Chanquete wrote: »

Got a letter in December (9th) warning me that I exceeded my limit in November. I was surprised since my habits are quite normal I would have assumed.

Nevertheless, since I could not afford paying for the "upgrade", I modified my internet settings and habits, changed my wireless password (just in case), and also disabled some apps which I suspected could be causing the large data transfer (things like a Perforce SVC proxy for connecting to work, which I believe was the main culprit).

When I got the letter, and a couple of times afterwards, I contacted the AUP team in UPC and queried about my usages in December. This is are the numbers they gave me:

Week 1 : 58Gb Total
Week 2 : 61Gb Total
Week 3 : 13Gb Total

I got the letter during Week 2 hence the initial large volumes (before my changes). I don't have the numbers for week 4 but if anything they should be even lower.

My whole family has spent virtually the whole month of January in hospital so usage in January should be in the Megabytes rather than Gb.

Today, back at home, I checked my bank accounts and noticed that UPC has upgraded and charged me with the Extreme package in January (7th) despite me being totally compliant from the moment I got the first (and only) warning.

Being a Saturday now I have to wait till Monday to try to sort out the situation. I am raging :mad:

Do you pay by direct debit? did you receive 14 days notice of the proposed charges? If you did not receive proper notice then you can instruct your bank to reverse the direct debit.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

dub45

80s Synth Pop wrote: »

Comreg do not have any interest in the false advertising oxymoron of "unlimited" usage with a 250 GB limit.

---

Dear Sir,

Thank you for contacting ComReg. If you feel that UPC’s advertising of the product as unlimited is misleading, then I would request that you forward this complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASAI). The ASAI can be contacted on 01 6608766 or at standards@asai.ie .

Under the Consumer Protection Act of 2007, the National Consumer Agency also has the power to take action against companies who engage in misleading advertising. The NCA can be contacted on 1890 432432 or 01 4025555 or at ask@consumerconnect.ie .

Should you have any other queries or require any other assistance from me you can call our Consumer Team on 1890 229668 or 01 8049668.

Yours sincerely,

---

Its absolutely disgraceful. This is a company that Comreg regulate! And it has really gone beyond misleading advertising at this stage they are simply lying to people.

Comreg really have brought a new dimension to passivity. In fact it appears that Comreg's passivity is unlimited!

I wonder what if anything stops Comreg from instructing Companies not to use the word unlimited in relation to any of the services which Comreg supervise?

jock101

Seriously people, if you dont like the path UPC has taken recently!

Vote with your cash, and take your business elsewhere!

If they change there policies, you can always go back!

I know it's a pain to change BB provider, especially if you have to go back to phoneline service! But there are competitive BB packages in cost and speed, including the hated eircom line rental!

If enough customers leave UPC they will have to change there current ways!

soreal

Chanquete wrote: »

Got a letter in December (9th) warning me that I exceeded my limit in November. I was surprised since my habits are quite normal I would have assumed.

Nevertheless, since I could not afford paying for the "upgrade", I modified my internet settings and habits, changed my wireless password (just in case), and also disabled some apps which I suspected could be causing the large data transfer (things like a Perforce SVC proxy for connecting to work, which I believe was the main culprit).

When I got the letter, and a couple of times afterwards, I contacted the AUP team in UPC and queried about my usages in December. This is are the numbers they gave me:

Week 1 : 58Gb Total
Week 2 : 61Gb Total
Week 3 : 13Gb Total

I got the letter during Week 2 hence the initial large volumes (before my changes). I don't have the numbers for week 4 but if anything they should be even lower.

My whole family has spent virtually the whole month of January in hospital so usage in January should be in the Megabytes rather than Gb.

Today, back at home, I checked my bank accounts and noticed that UPC has upgraded and charged me with the Extreme package in January (7th) despite me being totally compliant from the moment I got the first (and only) warning.

Being a Saturday now I have to wait till Monday to try to sort out the situation. I am raging :mad:

am really suspecting UPC's actions. we have been with them for few years. my net habits didnt change, my house mates say they are not responsible for it.. the only thing that i can think of that changed on our line is the modem. still, there is no external way to monitor the usage to know whos lying ..

i like UPC, I think the "unlimited" 250 gig am in is fair and more than we need.... but due to upc's actions i want to change providers.. who else offers an unlimited/no less than 250 gig reliable broadband package in the irish market?

Nollog

Chanquete wrote: »

Got a letter in December (9th) warning me that I exceeded my limit in November. I was surprised since my habits are quite normal I would have assumed.

Nevertheless, since I could not afford paying for the "upgrade", I modified my internet settings and habits, changed my wireless password (just in case), and also disabled some apps which I suspected could be causing the large data transfer (things like a Perforce SVC proxy for connecting to work, which I believe was the main culprit).

When I got the letter, and a couple of times afterwards, I contacted the AUP team in UPC and queried about my usages in December. This is are the numbers they gave me:

Week 1 : 58Gb Total
Week 2 : 61Gb Total
Week 3 : 13Gb Total

I got the letter during Week 2 hence the initial large volumes (before my changes). I don't have the numbers for week 4 but if anything they should be even lower.

My whole family has spent virtually the whole month of January in hospital so usage in January should be in the Megabytes rather than Gb.

Today, back at home, I checked my bank accounts and noticed that UPC has upgraded and charged me with the Extreme package in January (7th) despite me being totally compliant from the moment I got the first (and only) warning.

Being a Saturday now I have to wait till Monday to try to sort out the situation. I am raging :mad:

Is your cap 120 or 250?

Chanquete

/\/ollog wrote: »

Is your cap 120 or 250?

250Gb

I've tried to call customer services but they won't put me through the AUP team - they say I have to email them and wait for a reply 48 hours afterwards. No matter how insistent I was they would not give me a phone number I could call. So more waiting for me :mad:

The (online) bill is dated on the 7th and I was charged on the 21st so I guess that's the 14 days "notice" for the change in DD. Nothing in the post, no phone calls, though. I was only back from hospital on the 22nd, too late to cancel the DD.

Nollog

Chanquete wrote: »

250Gb

I've tried to call customer services but they won't put me through the AUP team - they say I have to email them and wait for a reply 48 hours afterwards. No matter how insistent I was they would not give me a phone number I could call. So more waiting for me :mad:

The (online) bill is dated on the 7th and I was charged on the 21st so I guess that's the 14 days "notice" for the change in DD. Nothing in the post, no phone calls, though. I was only back from hospital on the 22nd, too late to cancel the DD.

How'd you get them to give you your stats for the first 3 weeks then?
Tell them you're the customer and threaten to break their legs and kidnap their children unless they do as you sayask to speak to their supervisor about it.
It's a real problem and you need to deal with it, as do they.

Chanquete

/\/ollog wrote: »

How'd you get them to give you your stats for the first 3 weeks then?
Tell them you're the customer and threaten to break their legs and kidnap their children unless they do as you sayask to speak to their supervisor about it.
It's a real problem and you need to deal with it, as do they.

The stats were given to me via email by the AUP team (aup@upc.ie) during december.

I did ask to speak to a supervisor but she claimed there was none available. Believe me, I did insist a lot re. getting a phone number for the AUP team I could call but I hit a brick wall there, she just kept saying she didn't have one. I asked for postal address - so i could pay a visit - and I just got "UPC, Inchicore, Dublin 8" (from one of the emails) - not much help either

dub45

Chanquete wrote: »

Got a letter in December (9th) warning me that I exceeded my limit in November. I was surprised since my habits are quite normal I would have assumed.

Nevertheless, since I could not afford paying for the "upgrade", I modified my internet settings and habits, changed my wireless password (just in case), and also disabled some apps which I suspected could be causing the large data transfer (things like a Perforce SVC proxy for connecting to work, which I believe was the main culprit).

When I got the letter, and a couple of times afterwards, I contacted the AUP team in UPC and queried about my usages in December. This is are the numbers they gave me:

Week 1 : 58Gb Total
Week 2 : 61Gb Total
Week 3 : 13Gb Total

I got the letter during Week 2 hence the initial large volumes (before my changes). I don't have the numbers for week 4 but if anything they should be even lower.

My whole family has spent virtually the whole month of January in hospital so usage in January should be in the Megabytes rather than Gb.

Today, back at home, I checked my bank accounts and noticed that UPC has upgraded and charged me with the Extreme package in January (7th) despite me being totally compliant from the moment I got the first (and only) warning.

Being a Saturday now I have to wait till Monday to try to sort out the situation. I am raging :mad:

There are a number of things you can do but it will take some work on your part so if you want to have a go here's what I suggest.

I presume you are paying by direct debit seeing as how they money appears to be gone? so make the most of dd scheme! it is an appalling scheme but there are things that you can do with the provisions of it. Unfortunately bank staff are disgracefully ignorant of the scheme so you may have to fight them.

(www.ipso.ie)

Firstly there is provision in the dd scheme to contest a charge and the scheme says that such charges should not be paid.

Originators must put in place reliable systems and which will ensure:
o the issuance of correct advance notification as appropriate of amounts to be debited
o that Direct Debits as issued conform to Payer instructions and the Rules of the Scheme
o that disputed amounts are not debited

In this case you were in hospital and unable to dispute the payment as you were unaware of it. So you can avail of the following:

You are entitled to request a refund of any variable direct debit which exceeded the amount which you could reasonably have expected, subject to you so requesting your bank within a period of 8 weeks from the date of debiting such direct debit to your account; your bank is entitled to ask you to provide factual elements relating to your request for a refund

You can show the bank that it differs significantly from previous months dds to UPC. No matter what the bank may say to you about refunding it you are entitled to it. I suggest that when you get the refund that you pay UPC the regular monthly amount.

You may need to remind the bank of this statement (from the dd scheme) several times:

The Direct Debit is a means of payment, and has no direct bearing on the underlying contract between the Payer and the Originator.

Now as regards UPC I would suggest that you write to them and tell them what you have done in respect of the charges.

Then inform them that you want to make an official complaint about their high handed behaviour in upping you to a punushment product which is not even commercially available. Ask them for their policy in relation to changing customers' products which Comreg requires them to have:

http://www.askcomreg.ie/internet/my_provider_has_advertised_an_unlimited_package_%E2%80%93_what_does_that_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

ComReg expects each service provider to implement a clear, transparent and policy for dealing with customer usage above any set thresholds. The policy should set out the rules for contract termination, including penalties, the charges that shall apply for any use above the threshold/limit, and the policy regarding migration of the customer to other packages, if applicable.

You could also ask them how they expect you to monitor your usage in the absence of a proper monitoring system.

No one as far as I am aware has ever seen a proper UPC policy in relation to the above requirement from Comreg. If you ring Comreg they will give you an official complaint number and then UPC are required to respond to you within a certain time period.

Good luck with your efforts.

dub45

Chanquete wrote: »

The stats were given to me via email by the AUP team (aup@upc.ie) during december.

I did ask to speak to a supervisor but she claimed there was none available. Believe me, I did insist a lot re. getting a phone number for the AUP team I could call but I hit a brick wall there, she just kept saying she didn't have one. I asked for postal address - so i could pay a visit - and I just got "UPC, Inchicore, Dublin 8" (from one of the emails) - not much help either

From their customer charter:

How to Register a Complaint
There are a number of ways in which you can register a complaint. You will need to provide your
account number as a reference and, in any written correspondence, should outline the nature of
the complaint.
By freephone:
Customer Care Centre: Freephone 1908
Opening hours: Monday – Saturday: 9am to 10pm, Sunday: 10am to 10pm,
Bank holidays: 10am to 10pm
By letter:
A letter outlining the nature of the complaint and associated account number addressed to:
Complaints Department, UPC, PO Box 465, Limerick Enterprise Development Park, Roxboro
Road, Limerick.
By email:
Email outlining the nature of the complaint and associated customer account number to:
customer.support@upc.ie

Also

UPC
Address: Building P2 East Point Bus Pk 3 Co. Dublin
City of Dublin
Phone: (01)2458000

However a friend of mine who called there in desperation a few years ago was told they had no "customer interface".

mrooqie

Ok and did anyone got sorted by sending email to aup. Were you downgraded? How long did it take. I am asking because i am on this f* bb exterem for 87 quid and i am keep waiting for any answer from this crowd
Thanks

80s Synth Pop

mrooqie wrote: »

Ok and did anyone got sorted by sending email to aup. Were you downgraded? How long did it take. I am asking because i am on this f* bb exterem for 87 quid and i am keep waiting for any answer from this crowd
Thanks

They only "upgrade" people on direct debit - so cancel your direct debit and pay in the post office or by credit card. Then demand and downgrade due to misleading advertising of unlimited usage or else take your business elsewhere.

bk109

mrooqie wrote: »

Ok and did anyone got sorted by sending email to aup. Were you downgraded? How long did it take. I am asking because i am on this f* bb exterem for 87 quid and i am keep waiting for any answer from this crowd
Thanks

In my case they did it automatically the first time my account went bellow 250gigs per month and the AUP rep I was corresponding with was really helpful in tracking my usage (my former housemates couldn't be arsed to at least mark their usage..)

80s Synth Pop wrote: »

They only "upgrade" people on direct debit - so cancel your direct debit and pay in the post office or by credit card. Then demand and downgrade due to misleading advertising of unlimited usage or else take your business elsewhere.

From personal experience even if you are paying via the UPC payment card thingies you'll get bumped.

conor.hogan.2

So what exactly happens if you go over the cap?

Do you pay so much per GB over like Eircom or are you automaticaly put onto the 100mb BB for the month?

Is it legal they claim "unlimited" and even then when you find out its 250GB there is no way on their site to view your usage?

johndoe99

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

So what exactly happens if you go over the cap?

Do you pay so much per GB over like Eircom or are you automaticaly put onto the 100mb BB for the month?

Is it legal they claim "unlimited" and even then when you find out its 250GB there is no way on their site to view your usage?

from reading their "acceptable usage policy" you will be charged and extra 3c per megabyte that you download/upload.

it's a bit thick on UPCs part, they advertise "No usage limit", but have a link then to state:

15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb, 10Mb and 15Mb users,
250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

conor.hogan.2

Wow wait what?

3c per MB? As in over 30 euro per GB?

unkel

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

So what exactly happens if you go over the cap?

Depends, probably nothing. Dunno why some people here call it a cap. It's not a cap, it's a fair use policy guideline

Back in the day several years ago when this guideline was 100GB/mth on the fastest UPC package, I regularly went over it (but on average I stayed under it)

I've never been contacted / been charged by UPC over this

conor.hogan.2

Well I used to triple the Eircom cap but they seem to be charging for going over it now and according to some people here so are upc.

I call it a cap mainly because it is a cap. They charge for a package that says unlimited, so anything legal that its used for is "fair usage" by its very nature.

Reg'stoy

How long would it take an average user, say most nights surfing two laptops youtube and general mucking around (facebook and boards) to use up the limit of 120gb. Just worried that we might go over the limit as we would watch a few shows on blinkbox rteplayer on our Ps3.

Cheers folks

south

Has anyone used AnalogX Netstat Live to keep track of their internet usage ? Does it work?

conor.hogan.2

I emailed UPC fair usage policy and it seems they will only tell you your usage if you go over the cap and the apparently dont keep usage stats on people who are under it.

So useful as ever.

Kjell

Hi guys. I have been having problems with UPC as well. I am so outraged with them, and after having read responses here as well, that I felt I had to join this discussion. Here is the email that I sent them to the AUP people (but I have yet to receive any material response and have since complained to ComReg and Advertising Standards:

To Whom it May Concern (AUP):

I recently noticed extremely high amounts of money (210 euros in two
months) that had been debited from my bank account by UPC. I have
eventually ascertained that UPC changed the nature of our contract
without my consent and without notifying me because I have exceed a
hidden cap in internet usage on my "unlimited package." I am dismayed
by this because I am a student who cannot afford this extremely
expensive package (I have lived in 8 countries and never been charged
anything like 80 euros/month for internet usage), but more importantly I believe that UPC has deliberately misled me as a consumer and acted against the good faith of my contract with them. Let me briefly review the salient points.

1) I was never notified of any change in my package. This is in
violation of your own "fair usage policy" (which I just became aware
of). I quote Section Two of the policy: "we will notify you in
writing 30 days in advance of doing so if the modification, amendment
or substitution constitutes a material change to the Terms and
Conditions of the Services". I was told by customer service that I
was sent a notification but I never received said notification by
text, email, or letter. I am wondering if UPC has my correct address.
Did you send the notification by registered mail? The result of this
is that I never agreed to having my internet package changed in any
manner. Your policy states that the absence of objection is taken as
consent but I never received any opportunity to object, thereby no
opportunity to offer my de facto consent. I feel this is in violation
of my rights as a consumer and likely constitutes a breach of our
contract.

2) I feel I have been misled as to the terms of our agreement. In our
contract you are agreeing to provide me with a certain service in
return for a certain payment on my part. Now I find that the service
you agreed to provide is not what it was advertised as and that you
have charged me double what we originally agreed. In all the
advertising regarding this service (including what is still on your
own website) UPC erroneously states that the package is "unlimited".
This is deliberately misleading. When I was in the process of
choosing which internet service provider to use I checked all aspects
of the different options and one of the main reasons I chose UPC was
because of the "unlimited" nature of the service. Moreover, when I
called UPC in order to receive more information and possibly set up
the service I was once again told that it is "unlimited". Now I find
that this is not true at all and I feel that I have been misled in
contravention of Irish and EU law (see EU Directive2006/114/EC on
Misleading and Comparative Advertising). The Directive states in
Article 2(b): "misleading advertising" means any advertising which in
any way, including its presentation, deceives or is likely to deceive
the persons to whom it is addressed or whom it reaches and which, by
reason of its deceptive nature, is likely to affect their economic
behaviour or which, for those reasons, injures or is likely to injure
a competitor." This is certainly the case in regards to UPC as, one of
the reasons I chose UPC over its competitors, was the advertised
"unlimited" internet usage.

In many areas of law the appropriate test is what an "ordinary man"
would do or what an "ordinary man" would understand. The definition
of the word "unlimited' in the Oxford English Dictionary is as
follows: "Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or
extent." This is the plain meaning of the term and this is what I
understood it to mean - without limits. This is even emphasized as a
selling point in all UPC advertising! Since my recent difficulties
with UPC I have spoken with many of my friends who also use UPC and,
without exception, they also (falsely) believed that their packages
were unlimited. Moreover, on searching for further information on
this issue I found many other consumers feel deceived by UPC. For a
small sample see:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055484124. I believe
that UPC acted in bad faith in informing me that I had an "unlimited"
usage package all the while knowing that my package did in fact have a
cap.

Surely UPC is aware that many people feel misled by this practise and
that such customer anger will eventually be harmful to their company.
Or is the calculation that enough people will be roped in by the false
representation of the package as "unlimited" to offset the loss of
other customers? I hope that UPC as a company is not so cynical - at
one point your reputation as a trader will surely suffer. Moreover, I
think it is only a matter of time before UPC faces a lawsuit over this
practice. Just because something is written in the "fine print" of a
contract does not mean that it is lawful. More importantly, as I
stated above, UPC is engaging in false and misleading advertising with
regards to their broadband services.

I await your response before deciding whether to take the next step
and issue a formal complaint to the Communications Regulator,
Advertising Standards Authority, and European Union. I recognise that
UPC can easily restore my package to the one that we agreed on
initially but I am still concerned about 1) the hidden usage cap on my
"unlimited package" and 2) the excess amount that I have been billed
by UPC as a result of the modification of our contract without my
express or implicit consent. Thank you for your time.

Kjell

I encourage those of you who feel wronged by UPC to also submit a consumer complaint with the National Consumer Authority at:

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Working_With_You/Submit_a_Consumer_Complaint/

johndoe99

it's a pity theres no UPC "Sub-Forums : Talk to..."

ronkmonster

johndoe99 wrote: »

it's a pity theres no UPC "Sub-Forums : Talk to..."

There is a UPC rep on boards but no sub forum as far as I know.

UPC: Jason
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=296435

Nollog

johndoe99 wrote: »

it's a pity theres no UPC "Sub-Forums : Talk to..."

Why would they do that?
They take such pride in hiding everything that it would just be jason explaining that everything is hidden and you have to look over the terms and conditions with a fine tooth comb to find anything out.