[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

vibe666

ah UPC:Jason, i remember him from the old days when he was still brave enough to post in the forum. :pac:

orke

and once again 3th time in a row i've got the bill from upc with double payment for internet. should be 42e have to 80e. im tired with this mess and will switch to magnet.

colinod0806

orke wrote: »

and once again 3th time in a row i've got the bill from upc with double payment for internet. should be 42e have to 80e. im tired with this mess and will switch to magnet.

Im open to correction here but i believe once you get put on the extreme package you stay on it until you tell them to put you back down and pay the 10 euro downgrade fee

johndoe99

orke wrote: »

and once again 3th time in a row i've got the bill from upc with double payment for internet. should be 42e have to 80e. im tired with this mess and will switch to magnet.

did you not ring UPC and query your bill with them ?

you can also email aup@upc.ie and ask them for a breakdown of your upload/download, to see if you've exceeded your usage. If you have exceeded it, you'll be billed more.

you say your being charged €80, you might have been put on the "100Mb package", they can do that if continually exceed your previous usage.

vibe666

johndoe99 wrote: »

you say your being charged €80, you might have been put on the "100Mb package", they can do that if continually exceed your previous usage.

if they'd done that, he probably would have noticed the UPC engineer in his front room changing the modem.

Nollog

They renamed their packages, so she wouldn't be on 100mbit, she's be on "ultimate".
This allows them to stay within their AUP (upgrade you to the next package), yet not give you any more speed, since it likely goes 10,20,30,ultimate,100.

Kjell

They are really a bunch of con artists. Honestly I have never had such a bad experience with a company. Latest email I got from them says that the unlimited claim is not false because you can download and upload as much as you like, you just need to pay more when you exceed the limit. They also conveniently ignore the fact that even if you are "upgraded" the most expensive package still has a limit. They are also refusing to speak to me on the telephone, refusing to downgrade my package, and ignoring my complaint that they never notified me. I encourage all of you who are having problems with them to complain. They count on people not bothering to complain. I also caution you to switch off of direct debit or they will really screw you over. Sorry to be so blunt but consider it some friendly advice.

dub45

Kjell wrote: »

They are really a bunch of con artists. Honestly I have never had such a bad experience with a company. Latest email I got from them says that the unlimited claim is not false because you can download and upload as much as you like, you just need to pay more when you exceed the limit. They also conveniently ignore the fact that even if you are "upgraded" the most expensive package still has a limit. They are also refusing to speak to me on the telephone, refusing to downgrade my package, and ignoring my complaint that they never notified me. I encourage all of you who are having problems with them to complain. They count on people not bothering to complain........

Talk about an example of sheer contempt for customers! And UPC want their customers to trust them?

Enhanced customer trust is seen as the key to achieving greater business success

That was uttered by the Head of their Customer Operations on 20th November 2010. (at a time when UPC were planning to increase their prices without complying with their own Terms and Conditions or E.U. regulations)

In addition to ignoring their own Terms and Conditions UPC now seem happy to ignore their so called Customer Charter:

Targets and Objectives
UPC is committed to ensuring customers receive ‘best in class’ customer service.
Our customer service commitment to you is to:
• Treat you with courtesy and respect.
• Listen carefully to your needs.
• Provide clear and accurate information on new products
and pricing, and any associated charges applicable to these

http://www.upc.ie/pdf/Customer%20Charter.pdf

You should read this:

http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/my_service_provider_has_advertised_an_%22unlimited_package%22___what_does_this_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

with particular reference to this part:

ComReg would like to advise consumers that any provision of a contract which sets usage thresholds, or describes what constitutes ‘fair’ or ‘acceptable’ use, should be clear and unambiguous, particularly where the service is described as being ‘unlimited’.

Usage thresholds or limits should be clearly set out, as should the manner in which they may be updated or amended.

ComReg expects each service provider to implement a clear, transparent and policy for dealing with customer usage above any set thresholds. The policy should set out the rules for contract termination, including penalties, the charges that shall apply for any use above the threshold/limit, and the policy regarding migration of the customer to other packages, if applicable.

You should make a formal complaint about UPC's behaviour toward you to Comreg:

http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/form.asp

Kjell wrote: »

I also caution you to switch off of direct debit or they will really screw you over. Sorry to be so blunt but consider it some friendly advice.

If you feel that you have been messed about by UPC via the direct debit system then you should contact IPSO (www.ipso.ie) While the direct debit system has its serious faults it is still not mean to be used as a pinless cash machine by companies to access customers' accounts.

In particular have a look here:http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

You are entitled to request a refund of any variable direct debit which exceeded the amount which you could reasonably have expected, subject to you so requesting your bank within a period of 8 weeks from the date of debiting such direct debit to your account; your bank is entitled to ask you to provide factual elements relating to your request for a refund

The unfortunate thing about the dd system is that most bank employees are chronically ignorant of its terms. So go armed to your branch and dont take any nonsense from them - refer them to the ipso website.

ronkmonster

I'm on the extreme package and I don't mind because I do download a lot. The only problem is they won't confirm if the extreme package is truly unlimited.

Kjell

ronkmonster wrote: »

I'm on the extreme package and I don't mind because I do download a lot. The only problem is they won't confirm if the extreme package is truly unlimited.

Be forwarned. It is not unlimited. It is now in the AUP that the limit is 500gb. Once again UPC is misleading its customers. The word "unlimited" has a completely different meaning to UPC as it does to anybody else.

ronkmonster

Kjell wrote: »

Be forwarned. It is not unlimited. It is now in the AUP that the limit is 500gb. Once again UPC is misleading its customers. The word "unlimited" has a completely different meaning to UPC as it does to anybody else.

Do you have a link to that?

All I can find is

• 15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
• 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb, 10Mb and 15Mb users,
• 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
• 500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

http://www.upc.ie/termsandconditions/acceptableusagepolicy/

dub45

Kjell wrote: »

Be forwarned. It is not unlimited. It is now in the AUP that the limit is 500gb. Once again UPC is misleading its customers. The word "unlimited" has a completely different meaning to UPC as it does to anybody else.

Well except for the other isps who use it to mean what they want it to mean:mad:

dub45

ronkmonster wrote: »

I'm on the extreme package and I don't mind because I do download a lot. The only problem is they won't confirm if the extreme package is truly unlimited.

Email UPC and ask them to detail for you exactly what you are paying for.

Point them towards their own customer charter:

• Provide clear and accurate information on new products
and pricing, and any associated charges applicable to these

And Comreg's policy on unlimited products:

Usage thresholds or limits should be clearly set out, as should the manner in which they may be updated or amended.

A customer is entitled to know exactly what they are paying for.

Kjell

ronkmonster wrote: »

Do you have a link to that?

All I can find is

• 15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
• 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb, 10Mb and 15Mb users,
• 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
• 500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

http://www.upc.ie/termsandconditions/acceptableusagepolicy/

Hey Rockmonster and Dub45. Here is what UPC told me yesterday with regards to this: "UPC can advertised their broadband packages as unlimited as we never stop a customer from uploading/downloading as much as they want, when they want. We need to move these customer, however, to a package that better suits their usage needs, i.e.; the Extreme package which has a acceptable usage level of 500Gb per calendar month." In other words, the package is unlimited but you pay more if you exceed the limit. Does that make any sense to you? Moreover, even the most expensive package (Extreme) has a limit so truly the service is not unlimited at all

ronkmonster

Will do.

I've been on it over a year now and they've never had a problem with the amount I'm downloading though. I did close to 300gb combined last week.

And back in July I downloaded my entire steam collection of 700gb + regular months download with no warnings or charges.

Kjell

Ok. So they say they will not speak with me on the telephone as it is against their policy. They also will not speak with me through email anymore as they are "unable to comment further on this subject."

Does anybody know any good consumer ombudsmen in the media? Irish Times? I would like to write them. It may not change my situation but I think people need to know about the terrible disregard UPC shows for its customers.

I have already complained to ComReg, ASAI, and NCA and I'm awaiting further responses from them.

conor.hogan.2

I am annoyed with them using unlimited as I stated early and with them over email.

But nothing is truly unlimited, well no products are.

johndoe99

i rang UPC 2 weeks ago to ask what my usage was as i wanted to know how much of the 250gb i was after using (im after installing software to log my usage), all there figures matched except one, they said that i had uploaded 50gb in a 2 day period. I challenged them and told them I don't upload anything, my software told me i had not uploaded anything.

So I asked them what was it I uploaded, they said they cant give out that information even though they had verified i was the account holder.

At the end of the day I have no comeback, it seems we have to take there word for it.

ronkmonster

johndoe99 wrote: »

i rang UPC 2 weeks ago to ask what my usage was as i wanted to know how much of the 250gb i was after using (im after installing software to log my usage), all there figures matched except one, they said that i had uploaded 50gb in a 2 day period. I challenged them and told them I don't upload anything, my software told me i had not uploaded anything.

So I asked them what was it I uploaded, they said they cant give out that information even though they had verified i was the account holder.

At the end of the day I have no comeback, it seems we have to take there word for it.

What package are you on?
Is it possible to upload 25GB per day on it?

Do run a media server at all?
Maybe they are counting that.:mad:

johndoe99

RVP 11 wrote: »

Do run a media server at all?
Maybe they are counting that.:mad:

Don't have a media server. They also suggested that i might have torrents which i dont.

ronkmonster wrote: »

What package are you on?
Is it possible to upload 25GB per day on it?

20MB Package

dub45

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I am annoyed with them using unlimited as I stated early and with them over email.

But nothing is truly unlimited, well no products are.

So labeling any product "unlimited" which is in any way qualified should be outlawed.

There are three things which should be clear and upfront with any bb product - price, speed and usage allowance. No one should have to go looking for any of those in extra documents etc etc.

Is it that hard to be honest?

po0k

jor el wrote: »

Withe regard to "unlimited" usage, there is always a fair use policy. They rarely put a number on the fair use though, as they don't want to make it a target.

What is mis-leading (and should be reported to the ASAI) is the claim of 'unlimited' here:
http://www.upc.ie/broadband/
Even clicking on the 'i' information javascipt doens't mention AUP or Fair Usage, which it should at the very least.
Or just be honest, save the Customer Support team some heartache and state that it's 250GB transfer per month.

However.
It is listed on the individual product pages in plain black and white, albeit mildly obfuscated.
http://www.upc.ie/broadband/twenty/
Click 'Conditions' tab.
"All Fibre Power Broadband services are subject to our acceptable usage policy.. The monthly data transfer allowance is 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 10Mb and 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb."

If you're technically-inclined, can read english and are not afraid of learning something:
Setup Cacti and configure bandwidth graphing for your net connection (or every device that uses alot of bandwidth).
There is a graph template which also shows TOTAL BANDWIDTH on the graphs.

Alternatively, use some other tool for recording your bandwidth.

po0k

johndoe99 wrote: »

Don't have a media server. They also suggested that i might have torrents which i dont.

Could be your neighbours.
Change your wireless WPA2 key and SSID name.
Change the key regularly.
Apply MAC filters.

If you want to go a step further and have a router that supports this:
Setup a RADIUS service.
Create 2 separate SSIDs, 1 WPA2 for non 802.1x devices (WPA2 DS, Wii, PSP), 1 non-SSID-broadcasting 802.1x authing against the RADIUS server for your modern devices (smartphones, laptops).

On the devices, log unknown MACs that connect. Perhaps blackholing/mangle proxying/selective packet logging them to record email addresses of unauthorized clients accessing your network. Or flip the images on every site they visit.
Lots of scope to be pro-active, as you are ultimately responsible for the security of your network.

conor.hogan.2

dub45 wrote: »

So labeling any product "unlimited" which is in any way qualified should be outlawed.

There are three things which should be clear and upfront with any bb product - price, speed and usage allowance. No one should have to go looking for any of those in extra documents etc etc.

Is it that hard to be honest?

Yes, it should not be allowed to be called unlimited, I agree.

Apparently it is that hard. But my point is that there is lying in mobile packages and everywhere else and in other countries. Its not just a UPC thing.

dub45

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Yes, it should not be allowed to be called unlimited, I agree.

Apparently it is that hard. But my point is that there is lying in mobile packages and everywhere else and in other countries. Its not just a UPC thing.

And for the umpteenth time your point is irrelevant no matter how many other companies lie about their products it doesn't justify any of them lying. In fact the more that lie the worse the situation becomes.

Integrity as I keep saying should not be an option in dealing with a company. It should be a given. And if UPC are lying to you as a customer what relevance has it got if Eircom or Vodafone happen to lie to their customers? Does it make you feel any better for being shafted?

And the more that people like you say they are all at it the more comfort it give to these companies. Because they know people in saying that will just put up with it.

conor.hogan.2

I didnt even hint at it being okay.

I am not being shafted, but I am still annoyed by the fact it would be easier to write 250GB cap as opposed to unlimited with an asterix.

dub45

po0k wrote: »

.......If you're technically-inclined, can read english and are not afraid of learning something:
Setup Cacti and configure bandwidth graphing for your net connection (or every device that uses alot of bandwidth).
There is a graph template which also shows TOTAL BANDWIDTH on the graphs.

Alternatively, use some other tool for recording your bandwidth.

Remember the vast majority of bb users are not regularly on boards and are not teccies and simply haven the foggiest notion about this sort of stuff.

It is outrageous that the regulator allows UPC to sell a product that they are not providing a proper monitoring system to the customer for.

Can you imagine the outcry if the ESB began telling people how much electricity they were using every month without providing a meter and with no method of appeal?

Or even your local butcher selling you meat by the kilo and not allowing you to check what weight you were buying.

Customers have no way of knowing how their usage is being measured. Is it a standard measurement system that has been properly signed off by a recognised authority for example?

dub45

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I didnt even hint at it being okay.

I am not being shafted, but I am still annoyed by the fact it would be easier to write 250GB cap as opposed to unlimited with an asterix.

You should be annoyed that there is no asterisk!

Look once and for all UPC (and all the rest of them that are selling unlimited products) are deliberately deceiving people its that simple. There is no excuse for them doing it and there is no excuse for them to be allowed to continue doing it.

conor.hogan.2

Yes, but comreg aren't doing anything and UPC dont even see it as false advertising.

I thought there was an asterix, its hidden in the small print anyway.