[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

daveyjoe

JBUCD wrote: »

I am just curious. Did the letter mention anything about what you where downloading? Or was it really just a rant at the amount you have being downloading?

Obviously not.
And by the way, they are straight-forward automated letters, stating that you downloaded over 250GB, not 'rants'.

_Sidhe_

"Rant".

I do not think this word means what you think it means

daveyjoe

_Sidhe_ wrote: »

"Rant".

I do not think this word means what you think it means

Is that directed at me? I hate when people post definitions just for the sake of it but it seems relevant this time, so excuse me just this once.

Rant: "speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way".

(Now back on topic).

_Sidhe_

No it wasn't aimed at you.
It was aimed at the poster who called a warning letter written in plane English a rant.
Which as you said, it wasn't.

All you here is people calling these letters rants, or abusive, or threatening, when they are far from it.

iWillBeReborn

IrishTonyO wrote: »

yeah if you can would be interested to know how, if not anyone know of a good application to monitor and log your data usage?

^^^ What he said Just looking into a down/up load monitor now myself as I have a letter stating I went over my 250 GB allowance in September or October. Can't remember which month but the letter was the standard one everyone else seems to have got.

I put my hands up as I was getting ready for redundancy (Still have my job thank God) and was Downloading whole series from start to finish. Like Stargate1 and Atlantis which were about 50+ GB each never mind all of Doctor Who and a few more series. Before that and now my normal amount is about 20 GB a month with episode of series I am currently watch (Fringe and the likes) with a few films a week.

I think a 200/250 GB a months cap is quite fair but I just want to make sure I stay under it in future.

coldfire1x

Why not install some apps like - Bandwidth Monitor. They may not be accurate but fairly close. Always gives me idea how much I have downloaded.

the_law

The best solution (if you have a compatible router) is to install a third party firmware having a bandwidth monitoring function. That way, internal network traffic (such as between your desktop and laptop) is not counted.

I use a Buffalo WHR-G54S and Tomato firmware and have nothing but good things to say about it. Reliability is top (last uptime was 40 days or something), and I can log in anytime and see usage on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. By the way, UPC measure traffic on a calendar month basis despite billing cycles starting in the middle of a month.

The only problem with my setup is that it only has 802.11g... but there is a new (Linksys?) router that supports the same firmware and is 802.11n, so that may be a better option nowadays. I can't speak for the stability of the third party firmware on it though.

slave1

@ iWillBeReborn
Dude, edit your post, explicit description of what you download is not fair to the Boards community

the_law

slave1 wrote: »

@ iWillBeReborn
Dude, edit your post, explicit description of what you download is not fair to the Boards community

+1

Noobsaibot21

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

It looks like they have changed their ways. Apparently, FUP is 40Gb for 5Mb and unlimited for 15 & 30. Am I correct in thinking this? In the T&C it states the following:

Monthly data usage is capped at 40GB for Fibre Power Broadband 5Mb, there is no monthly usage cap for Fibre Power Broadband 15Mb or 30Mb. All broadband services are subject to our acceptable usage policy.

Surely if they have a level of acceptable useage, it would be outlined under their 'Usage limits' like the one mentioned for 5Mb outlined on the link above. Can anybody clarify this?

ronkmonster

Noobsaibot21 wrote: »

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

It looks like they have changed their ways. Apparently, FUP is 40Gb for 5Mb and unlimited for 15 & 30. Am I correct in thinking this? In the T&C it states the following:



Surely if they have a level of acceptable useage, it would be outlined under their 'Usage limits' like the one mentioned for 5Mb outlined on the link above. Can anybody clarify this?

Acceptable usage is 250GB for their 'Unlimited' packages.

Noobsaibot21

Is it even legal that they can call it Unlimited? I'm sure you could plead ignorance on the first occasion (Especially if you threaten Ofcom).

ronkmonster

Not sure. In the UK now they have truly unlimited packages now. So we should catch up in another few years.

Ranicand

ronkmonster wrote: »

Not sure. In the UK now they have truly unlimited packages now. So we should catch up in another few years.

What ISPs are doing this?

ronkmonster

Sky. and another I can't remember the name of, some O2 subsidiary. Maybe more but there the 2 I've heard of.

Ireland tends to lag behind UK with this stuff though

Ranicand

ronkmonster wrote: »

Sky. and another I can't remember the name of, some O2 subsidiary. Maybe more but there the 2 I've heard of.

Ireland tends to lag behind UK with this stuff though

Copy and pasted from the Sky site.
http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/skyproducts/broadband/terms/usagepolicies?cl=3


SKY BROADBAND CONNECT TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT POLICY

In addition to the monthly Usage Cap, this Traffic Management Policy applies to you if you take Sky Broadband Connect.

Excessive use during peak time

We will monitor your Sky Broadband usage during peak times from 5pm to 12am each day. This is when the majority of customers use the network and when speeds could be affected by the excessive usage of a minority. If we consider that your usage is excessive during peak times we may slow down your connection for the rest of the day so that it has less affect on others. Only a very small number of customers will be affected by this (less than 2%). If you are affected, we will only slow down the speed you can get during peak times for applications which use a lot of bandwidth (for example, streaming, peer-to-peer and newsgroups) and which have a negative effect on other customers. You will still be able to use Sky Broadband to do other things normally such as browsing, email, instant messaging and VOIP. There are no restrictions in place outside of peak times.

Traffic management of our Network

To ensure we provide a sustainable quality broadband service to our customers, we continuously monitor and efficiently manage the Sky Network as a whole. To do this, during peak times (from 5pm to 12am each day), we may slow down the speed that all Sky Broadband Connect customers can get on certain applications which we consider use up a lot of bandwidth (for example peer-to-peer and newsgroups) and which have a negative affect on other customers There are no restrictions in place for applications such as browsing, email, streaming, instant messaging and VOIP during peak times. We do not put restrictions on our network outside of peak times.

ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY

Irrespective of which Product you have subscribed to, our Acceptable Use Policy ("AUP") will apply to you and those who you allow to use Sky Broadband.

If you have any queries about our AUP, you can contact us by emailing abuse@sky.com.

ronkmonster

UPC do that here (peak time throttling). I get a lot of my downloads during the night.

Web browsing not throttled. Rapidshare should be ok?

personguy

ronkmonster wrote: »

Acceptable usage is 250GB for their 'Unlimited' packages.

but where is that written down? even in super tiny fine print that you have to read with a microscope..?

we're five people in one house, sharing the net, using skype rather often to talk to our families and friends. i'm the only one who uses rapidshare, but i don't use it heavily and keep the overheads in mind. 250gb/month works out to 1.7 gigs a day for each person in the house. that's 1.7 gigs of total traffic, up and down. when you factor in a nice skype video chat with your girlfriend and/or parents, the usual youtube video loading, uploading music and video tracks (me for my band in lieu of physically meeting up, another for his danish and piano lessons, another who works in television, etc), that 1.7 gb vanishes pretty quickly. after getting the first warning letter from upc about their "unlimited limit," i've used a bandwidth meter on my pc and even during 'normal' internet usage, nothing too heavy, i've watched 500MB stack up no problem.

unfortunatley, i'm the only one in the house who's rigorous about keeping my bandwidth usage in check, so we went over the "unlimited limit" a few months later.

i understand a fair usage policy being implemented.
i don't like the finer points of this policy not being made available to the public.
i don't like the fact that in order to discover how much bandwidth you have left from your 250GB/month "unlimited limit" you have to call up UPC and get ahold of their tech support, and they can only tell you how much you've used in the past 30 days or past 7 days (direct quote from the phone rep).
i don't like the fact that not only is the package deal that we're paying for misrepresented in written terms, but the "upgrade" is to a "service" that is not represented at all. (90,000+ hits for "upc broadband extreme" on google, not one of the results lead to the UPC/NTL site; only questions and complaints from confused customers).

250GB/month for one person is, in my opinion, certainly "fair." but sharing an internet connection in a household of several internet users is a very common scenario, and 1.7 gigs a day of total bandwidth is a bit of a squeeze for people who like their internet with all the multimedia it has to offer (you don't purchase a 20Mbit connection just to check your email). however, "fair usage" opinions aside, there is a way to implement fast internet which is fair to clients with singular and shared connections and make it work for everyone in the region.

this is not that way.

i wouldn't mind if the bandwith limitations were buried on page 67 paragraph D section iix of their TOS, written in hebrew with invisible lemon juice. i wouldn't mind if logging in to a site where i could check the daily/current bandwidth usage for our UPC account required standing on my head and clucking like a chicken.

but these features are simply not available.

simply put, it's dishonest, indirect, and if we're going to pay for a connection that's capped at 250GB a month then we want some cooperation and transparency from the provider.

short story: account closed at the end of this month. upc lost our business.

as robert redford said to dustin hoffman in all the president's men, "i don't mind what you did, i mind the way you did it."

Cabaal

ronkmonster wrote: »

Not sure. In the UK now they have truly unlimited packages now. So we should catch up in another few years.

ronkmonster wrote: »

Sky. and another I can't remember the name of, some O2 subsidiary. Maybe more but there the 2 I've heard of.

Just a few corrections here as you clearly didn't read any of the UK websites.

Sky Broadband says

upto 20MB - Unlimited & Freetime

Our premium broadband option is perfect for downloading music & uninterrupted online gaming.

* Up to 20Mb download speeds
* Unlimited usage

SKY BROADBAND CONNECT TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT POLICY

In addition to the monthly Usage Cap, this Traffic Management Policy applies to you if you take Sky Broadband Connect.

Excessive use during peak time

We will monitor your Sky Broadband usage during peak times from 5pm to Midnight each day. This is when the majority of customers use the network and when speeds could be affected by the excessive usage of a minority. If we consider that your usage is excessive during peak times we may slow down your connection for the rest of the day so that it has less affect on others. Only a very small number of customers will be affected by this (less than 2%). If you are affected, we will only slow down the speed you can get during peak times for applications which use a lot of bandwidth (for example, streaming, peer-to-peer and newsgroups) and which have a negative effect on other customers. You will still be able to use Sky Broadband to do other things normally such as browsing, email, instant messaging and VOIP. There are no restrictions in place outside of peak times.

Traffic management of our Network

To ensure we provide a sustainable quality broadband service to our customers, we continuously monitor and efficiently manage the Sky Network as a whole. To do this, during peak times (from 5pm to Midnight each day), we may slow down the speed that all Sky Broadband Connect customers can get on certain applications which we consider use up a lot of bandwidth (for example peer-to-peer and newsgroups) and which have a negative affect on other customers There are no restrictions in place for applications such as browsing, email, streaming, instant messaging and VOIP during peak times. We do not put restrictions on our network outside of peak times.

ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY

Irrespective of which Product you have subscribed to, our Acceptable Use Policy ("AUP") will apply to you and those who you allow to use Sky Broadband.

If you have any queries about our AUP, you can contact us by emailing abuse@sky.com.


In addition

How we update our Usage Policies

The way our customers use Sky Broadband is changing all the time so we may need to change our Usage Policies to adapt to our customer's needs. Our latest Usage Policies will always be posted on our website at www.sky.com so please keep checking for updates.

So basically they can trottle you and they may add a usage cap at anytime to this package....not truly unlimited then...it just has a large limit



O2 Broadband normally known as Be Broadband

Unlimited downloads

Get what you want, without limits, and with a
fair usage policy that is actually fair.

So it has a FUP to start with...

On limited packages they upgrade you so thats normal enough

What about your 40GB monthly download limit on the BE Value package?

If you take the BE Value package with a 40GB monthly download limit then after 30 June 2010, you are only entitled to download up to that limit each month. If you persistently download more than that amount we reserve the right to give you warning and then, if your usage does not immediately reduce to less than 40GB, move you onto an unlimited package. You will have to pay the increased package price for that package and will not be able to move back to the BE Value package.

Oh and

What about excessive network usage?

If it’s felt that any Be member’s Internet activities are so excessive that other members are detrimentally affected, Be may give the member generating the excessive web traffic a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, should the levels of activity not immediately decrease after the warning, Be may terminate that member’s services.

So basically like every other ISP they operate a FUP where if they feel you are abusing the hell out of their network...say 1TB a month they will take action.

Not very truly unlimited then eh?

As I've said before an ISP's business model does not allow for a truly unlimited package...you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

Anyone care to continue their search for a residential ISP that doesn't have a FUP

hightower1

personguy wrote: »

250GB/month for one person is, in my opinion, certainly "fair." but sharing an internet connection in a household of several internet users is a very common scenario, and 1.7 gigs a day of total bandwidth is a bit of a squeeze for people who like their internet with all the multimedia it has to offer (you don't purchase a 20Mbit connection just to check your email). however, "fair usage" opinions aside, there is a way to implement fast internet which is fair to clients with singular and shared connections and make it work for everyone in the region.

So in your opinion you should drive a ferrari Enzo constantly @ 200mph simply because it can? Good idea that lol.

Like I stated in the other current fair use thread....

Seeing as everyone shares the same line I cant see how anyone here agree's let alone supports anyone downloading over 250 gigs a month!

Its not a company their hurting its everyone else on their line, they are all paying for speed but these guys are taking the line speed you all paid for at the same price basically robbing you of available bandwidth.


Fair use policies are there not to limit but protect the average user from the likes of this bandwidth hog.....

Getting slow connection? Need look no further than the person on you line sucking up every bleeding mb of speed.


Look up slow speeds here and you'll see pages of people getting issues with it, of coarse not ALL slow connections are caused by bandwidth hogs but you can be rest assured a large amount is.

Everyone pays their fair share.... people with threads like this are taking more than their fair share and the only place that can come from is from other people (other posters) connections.

People coming on here complaining about FUP's get my wick, the plain and simple fact of the matter is you are taking bandwidth from other users in excessive amounts and then look for people to back you up or agree with you after it.

personguy

hightower1 wrote: »

So in your opinion you should drive a ferrari Enzo constantly @ 200mph simply because it can? Good idea that lol.

Like I stated in the other current fair use thread....

Seeing as everyone shares the same line I cant see how anyone here agree's let alone supports anyone downloading over 250 gigs a month!

Its not a company their hurting its everyone else on their line, they are all paying for speed but these guys are taking the line speed you all paid for at the same price basically robbing you of available bandwidth.


Fair use policies are there not to limit but protect the average user from the likes of this bandwidth hog.....

Getting slow connection? Need look no further than the person on you line sucking up every bleeding mb of speed.


Look up slow speeds here and you'll see pages of people getting issues with it, of coarse not ALL slow connections are caused by bandwidth hogs but you can be rest assured a large amount is.

Everyone pays their fair share.... people with threads like this are taking more than their fair share and the only place that can come from is from other people (other posters) connections.

People coming on here complaining about FUP's get my wick, the plain and simple fact of the matter is you are taking bandwidth from other users in excessive amounts and then look for people to back you up or agree with you after it.

well, i would make a useful reply to that, but it's pretty obvious you didn't read the rest of my post.

if you're calling my understanding and agreeing with the fair usage policy complaining, then i'll go ahead and point out that peanut butter does not make giraffes grow taller.

:shrug:

but you'll probably find a way to turn that statement on its head too. i bet there's a nice cosy chair waiting for you in politics somewhere. :rolleyes:

peace.

hightower1

So you understand an agree with their fair use policy but yet dont seem to be especially bothered about actually doing something real about it and take the mick with the bandwidth use for two solid months with not a care as to where its coming from?

Think thats called saying one thing but actually doing another, this coupled with the "selective" memory Cabaal seems to have pointed out I dont think I'll be the one in politics mate.

There are no if's or buts about it.... with that kind of use you WERE taking away from what other people have paid for fair and square and to complain then that a company never gave you a way to check it after is simply laughable. Something tells me UPC wont be sad to see the back of use like this ether way.

You talk the talk about agreeing with companies fair use policies but dont walk the walk of doing the responsible thing and getting a business broadband pack to avoid taking bandwidth from neighbors, and with use like yours unless you willing to cut it back it will be a business pack you'll need as UPC seems to be the highest residential cap around.

personguy

hightower1 wrote: »

So you understand an agree with their fair use policy but yet dont seem to be especially bothered about actually doing something real about it and take the mick with the bandwidth use for two solid months with not a care as to where its coming from?

...what?

hightower1 wrote: »

Think thats called saying one thing but actually doing another, this coupled with the "selective" memory Cabaal seems to have pointed out...

...what?

hightower1 wrote: »

There are no if's or buts about it.... with that kind of use you WERE taking away from what other people have paid for fair and square and to complain then that a company never gave you a way to check it after is simply laughable. Something tells me UPC wont be sad to see the back of use like this ether way.

if i (and by "i" i do mean "we, the five people who share this inernet connection," in case, as i suspect you also didn't read my entire post) am paying for 40 gigs a month, then tell me i'm paying for 40 gigs a month, and that's what i'll use, and if i go over that i'll pay for it. but don't say i'm paying for unlimited, and then say by unlimited we actually mean 250 gigs, even though we never explained that anywhere, and then say that if you actually use those 250 gigs you will be taking bandwidth away from other paying customers.

also, if you actually read my original post and find the usage i described to be "unreasonable" or "hoggish" then i must admit i cannot imagine what use you would have in mind when purchasing a 20mbit connection.

hightower1 wrote: »

You talk the talk about agreeing with companies fair use policies but dont walk the walk of doing the responsible thing and getting a business broadband pack to avoid taking bandwidth from neighbors

...where's the button on the keyboard that iterates tearing one's hair out?!?

that's exactly my point! one of the very few points i was making in that apparently cryptic and elusive original post was that if upc were open and transparent about the limitations of the account we purchased then we would have known that it's not the right package for us. i still haven't been able to get a straight answer from them on the "real actual" limitations of a Broadband Extreme subscription, which is why we're taking our business elsewhere. if, by further example, we knew this Broadband Extreme was a package better suited to a household of five users of a shared 20mbit connection (with features such as a slightly higher overall cap and less impact on neighbouring connections, so that everyone in our household of regular users and in surrounding houses of fellow subscribers could all live happily ever after), then we would know whether or not this was the right package for us. but they don't make that information available, they keep it to themselves, and this doesn't suit us from a consumer perspective, which is why we're taking our business elsewhere.

i know people who are quite drastically addicted to downloading from the internet, constantly, perpetually, relentlessly. if the bandwidth of neighbouring accounts is disrupted by this type of usage, i would point the finger at these people. our scenario, which is not at all uncommon, creates a situation where common + multimedia internet usage by non-heavy users collectively creates a dent that can reach above the 250 gig limit. i absolutely agree that fair usage must be practised and enforced in order to provide the same internet experience for all neighbouring accounts.
but my complaint, as someone who read my original post can no doubt quickly gather, was not about the limitation, it was about the lack of transparency in regards to their limitations and policies.
if the limitations of the subscription were available and clear and we knew that our collective impact on this connection/subscription would excede the limitations (with consequences including an auto-upgrade to an even-less-described package and, according to above complaints, degradation of neighbouring connections), then we would A) change our internet usage habits or, more likely, switch to a more suitable subscription.

instead, upc advertised "unlimited." then sent a letter to say "oh, actually there's a limit." and, in response to "where can i log in to find out how close our house is to that limit?" simply shrugged.


beyond that, my hands are officially up in the air. in relation to what i was getting at in my original post -- customer service -- i have no idea what your point is.

i already know this and further commentary is wasted 'breath', as my description of running a bandwidth meter, after receiving the first warning letter, in order to closely pay attention to how much i'm using on any given day was translated as "[taking] the mick with the bandwidth use for two solid months with not a care as to where its coming from."

:goes to waste breath somewhere else:

dub45

There is of course an easy answer to all of this and in one word it is honesty.

If UPC or anyone else what to sell a product with a cap of 'x' let them sell it as a product that has a cap of 'x' not under the guise of something that is simply a lie.

As I have written before 'unlimited' has a specific meaning - if it used deliberately with a meaning that UPC or any other isp or phone company want to impose on it then that is deliberate deception. It doesnt matter if Comreg or the ASAI or the United Nations allow it - its wrong and its desgned to deceive.

If you sell your products with a clearly defined cap then there is no need for a fair usage policy. Customers know what they are buying.

Can honesty really be that difficult?:rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

UPC Broadband Light has gone from 6MB to 8MB (an old package)
and monthly usage from 50GB to 60GB

Service outage last night for a while - TV gone as well so modem should be at full speed anyway

afterwards the modem says
Downstream Symbol Rate : 6952 Ksym/sec
Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec

speedtest.ie says 3.7mb

IrishTonyO

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

speedtest.ie says 3.7mb

Welcome to the 'upgrade', it might take a bit of time to get up to full speed in fairness. Hope you don't have the problems me and others have had.

vibe666

personguy wrote: »

...what?

...what?

...where's the button on the keyboard that iterates tearing one's hair out?!?

:goes to waste breath somewhere else (snipped for your pleasure!)

what he said.

to quote me from another thread:

vibe666 wrote: »

there seems to be a bit of a problem here with people making the assumption that because THEY only use 'x' amount of bandwidth in a month that everyone else should too.

There are only two types of people here on this thread right now who have the 20/30mbps package with UPC. those who monitor their usage closely and keep it within the 250gb per month FUP on the ultra package and those who exceed it and are upgraded by UPC to the extreme package (without the 250gb FUP) at extra cost.

BOTH these types of user are paying for what they are using, so I don't see any legitimacy to any claims of bandwidth hogging here at all.

Mackerdave

OK, there has been a lot of discussion around this. I too was someone who (was shocked to) receive such a warning letter, as I had no idea the household usage was so high. This is a family house with 5 computers, xbox, WII etc.

I had a number of issues with UPC.

1 was the lack of a transparent up front notification of a fair usage policy.
2 was the lack of what the FUP cap was
3 most annoyingly was the lack of any means by which I could check the usage. This is a bit like a bank not allowing you to see your current balance. I had switched from another provider, and they gave you a simple web page you could access to check your usage.

I emailed UPC support and pointed this out. Their answer was to recomend I downloaded a "Free" piece of software to monitor my usage. I pointed out that their recommended piece of software was no longer free, that I would have to run around the house totaling up the usage of each PC, and even then could not run it on my XBox & WII.

I should point out that I have no problem with the FUP or even with the 250 Gb limit, as I thing these are fair.

I did not however expect or wait for them to reply. My understanding is that a UPC home broadband connection is specifically sold as a single PC connection and states they do not support home networks or business use. Their support page says that their broadband is sutable for online gaming, however it then recommends you disconnect the PC and plug in the xBox. I also understand that the broadband packages they threten to upgrade you to are business packages, and are not quoted on their website.

What I did in the end was to download a package called WallWatcher. This uses SNMP to interface to your router and get the usage stats from this. I actually run my Firewall/router as a VM using a product called MonoWall. The combination of these two allow me to get nice graphs of usage etc.

Just a thought.

personguy

nice/useful information

dmannix

Dude, You probably did download that amount. It builds up very quickly, If your using a torrent client, check that your upload setting is not set to unlimited also and upload+ download = your total download. Also, install an internet usage monitor.

I have just been un-trottled by Digiweb for going over 40gig for the month. Took two weeks for limit to go from 60gig back to 40gig b4 7mbit speed kicked back in. Total joke. Will swap over to UPS asap

dave-higgz wrote: »

Just got a letter in the door today informing me that I downloaded 358.05GB last month on my UPC 10mb Broadband.

They stated that even though my broadband cap is unlimited that there is a residential cap of 250GB per month.

There's no way I downloaded that much data. I have a windows home server which is constantly getting TV shows and movies but for me to have clocked up that much I would have had to download 1gb every 2 hours for an entire month!!!


Along with being threatened with disconnection, the usual lark, they also said that I might be automatically upgraded to their highest package, UPC broadband extreme (€79.99). I checked their website and along with there being no mention of a 250Gb cap there most certainly isn't a residential package that's 79.99. Will this be the anticipated 50mb service??