[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

vibe666

dub45 wrote: »

But if the products are "unlimited" who needs to monitor them at all:)

indubitably my dear watson!

the conversations should really all be the same when it comes to this.

UPC: you've gone over your monthly limit.
User: you said it was unlimited.
UPC: it is, but with an acceptable usage policy that limits your unlimited usage to 250gb per month.
User: you limit my unlimited usage to 250gb a month?
UPC: yes
User: Well how is it unlimited then?
UPC: because we say it is.
User: oh okay, well if you say so.
UPC: well, as a matter of fact we do and we'll charge you if you go over the limited unlimited limit on your unlimited package.
User: Oh, well that's not very good for me is it?
UPC: no, not really but we quite like it.
User: okey dokey so, if you'd like me to keep within this 250gb unlimited limit from now on, where can i track my unlimited usage?
UPC: we're working on that.
User: oh, okay well when can I expect it to be available
UPC: definitely sometimes soon, we've been diligently working to add that feature since january 2009 when we first started enforcing the unlimited 250gb limit.
User: oh, so i can't see my usage currently?
UPC: no, not just yet.
User: but you CAN, because you're sending me letters, or just randomly upgraded me to a hidden package that is identical except for the price without telling me first?
UPC: yes
User: but you definitely can't provide me with a usage meter?
UPC: we're REALLY close now to adding that functionality, i can feel it in my bones!
User: so you're really going to penalise me for going over a limit on your unlimited product and can't provide me with a way to make sure i don't go over that limit again?
UPC: yep
User: REALLY???
UPC: have you considered signing up to boards.ie and complaining to them, I hear they're very sympathetic towar...
click.....
UPC: hello?

sorry, lost the run of myself there.

apparently, (or so I hear) talking to ones self, listening and replying is the first sign of management potential.

Capt'n Midnight

vibe666 wrote: »

mind you, i bet anglo irish wish they could lose a few about now.

there seem to have been an undue number of floods and fires and stuff entrusted to people now dead , for the lawyers and accountants of those caught up in the tribunals :mad:

Did those Anglo files det decrypted yet ?? :mad::mad:

dub45

vibe666 wrote: »

indubitably my dear watson!

the conversations should really all be the same when it comes to this.



sorry, lost the run of myself there.

apparently, (or so I hear) talking to ones self, listening and replying is the first sign of management potential.

Another hidden bonus from UPC helping you get in touch with your inner "Jorge Luis Borges".

The writer of the nonsense below was obviously an avid reader:

"Customers who are on an unlimited tariff with respect to the Service are advised that Vodafone operates the following Fair Usage Policy for use of this tariff: It is important to Vodafone that all eligible Vodafone customers are able to access our services. Accordingly, we have devised a fair use policy which applies to the Service. Vodafone may rely on this fair use policy where your usage of the Service is excessive or unreasonable as detailed in this paragraph. Vodafone has developed the Service and the related tariffs by reference to average customer profiles and estimated customer usage of the Service (particularly the estimated volume and length of free calls likely to be made by users). If, at the absolute discretion of Vodafone, Vodafone is of the opinion, that your usage of the Service materially exceeds these estimated use pattern over any month, Vodafone may contact you to advise you that your usage exceeds its fair use policy. If the excessive usage continues after receipt of a request to desist from or alter the nature of such usage, Vodafone reserves the right to charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate or to suspend, at its absolute discretion, modify or restrict your use of the Service or to withdraw your access to the Service."

Now where is your download meter in all that?

I am sure Flann O'Brien or Kafka or ...... would have loved the potential in "unlimited" products.

vibe666

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

there seem to have been an undue number of floods and fires and stuff entrusted to people now dead , for the lawyers and accountants of those caught up in the tribunals :mad:

Did those Anglo files det decrypted yet ?? :mad::mad:

funnily enough, I hear that they're looking to hire a backup/restore expert at the moment (seriously, its on the usual jobsites), so who knows.

"anglo files", tee hee! :pac::pac:

Chris_Heilong

Yeah UPC just "Upgraded me" without my knowlege, They sent me a letter last month about my Unlimited limit of 250GB a month Which was the first I heard of it, after I got the letter I downloaded a bandwith monitor for myself and my wife. At the end of the month I had downloaded 30GB and my wife 90GB(she watches streaming Chinese tv using a program called PPstream) my wife used about 8GB a day on it. So when I checked my UPC today I saw that the charge was 96.50:eek: after calling them up, being put on hold by 4 different people I was told to contact AUP, they rang me before I finished my email and I had to deal with the rudest person I have ever talked to on the Phone,

I just anted to ask about why I was upgraded (customer services said UPC charge a month in advance which means that they upgraded me the same time they sent the warning letter). anyway she said I used 410GB that month and have been upgraded, "I said I think there is a mistake I only counted 110GB used for Nov" she said "we dont just send out letters willy nilly!", I was like "....ok...", but I dont want to continue with your services if you can.." she stopped me saying "you are very confrontational" and she wouldnt let me get a word in, It continued like this and when I tryed to talk she would say "what...I cant hear you. Are you doing this on purpose" I said No, she said "What...you think Im doing it? do you?" It was like this for 10 mins then I got cut off, a few minutes latter she called back and said she is putting me on to her manager because she cant deal with an agressive person At this point I politely told her I think she is in the wrong line of work.

Her manager said my phone reception was bad and to call him on his land-line, but the number he gave me did not work and when I tried to call back the AUP employee I also got no answer, So here is me just looking for some answers and getting abused over the phone by some nobody and still no resolution on my forced broadband upgrade.

AlmightyCushion

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Yeah UPC just "Upgraded me" without my knowlege, They sent me a letter last month about my Unlimited limit of 250GB a month Which was the first I heard of it, after I got the letter I downloaded a bandwith monitor for myself and my wife. At the end of the month I had downloaded 30GB and my wife 90GB(she watches streaming Chinese tv using a program called PPstream) my wife used about 8GB a day on it. So when I checked my UPC today I saw that the charge was 96.50:eek: after calling them up, being put on hold by 4 different people I was told to contact AUP, they rang me before I finished my email and I had to deal with the rudest person I have ever talked to on the Phone,

I just anted to ask about why I was upgraded (customer services said UPC charge a month in advance which means that they upgraded me the same time they sent the warning letter). anyway she said I used 410GB that month and have been upgraded, "I said I think there is a mistake I only counted 110GB used for Nov" she said "we dont just send out letters willy nilly!", I was like "....ok...", but I dont want to continue with your services if you can.." she stopped me saying "you are very confrontational" and she wouldnt let me get a word in, It continued like this and when I tryed to talk she would say "what...I cant hear you. Are you doing this on purpose" I said No, she said "What...you think Im doing it? do you?" It was like this for 10 mins then I got cut off, a few minutes latter she called back and said she is putting me on to her manager because she cant deal with an agressive person At this point I politely told her I think she is in the wrong line of work.

Her manager said my phone reception was bad and to call him on his land-line, but the number he gave me did not work and when I tried to call back the AUP employee I also got no answer, So here is me just looking for some answers and getting abused over the phone by some nobody and still no resolution on my forced broadband upgrade.

UPC count upload and download in their FUP so is it possible you forgot to check your upload.

dub45

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

UPC count upload and download in their FUP so is it possible you forgot to check your upload.

But here is another example of the absolute nonsense of an isp having the sole say over what a customer is using without providing any means for the customer to contest it. Its simply wrong that this type of thing should be allowed.

And again another example of a customer apparently being upgraded, without any warning, to a product they know nothing about because is not commerially available.

When will UPC realise that honesty is the best policy?:rolleyes:

Ranicand

dub45 wrote: »

But here is another example of the absolute nonsense of an isp having the sole say over what a customer is using without providing any means for the customer to contest it. Its simply wrong that this type of thing should be allowed.

And again another example of a customer apparently being upgraded, without any warning, to a product they know nothing about because is not commerially available.

When will UPC realise that honesty is the best policy?:rolleyes:

I agree with you 100%.

There is no excuse for this.

I have UPC 30meg and the best that Eircom can do for me is 1meg.
UPC is a monopoly or fast becoming one.

wedgelington

its absolutely ridiculous that its advertised as unlimited yet it has a 250gb limit, i was so pissed when i got another letter claiming i downloaded to much after i upgraded my service to avoid this and specifically asked them if it had any download limits and they said no, none, i was so angry i sent an email to watchdog and i would be very pleased if other unhappy customers as your selves would follow maybe if we get enough people to do so they'll investigate them

dub45

wedgelington wrote: »

its absolutely ridiculous that its advertised as unlimited yet it has a 250gb limit, i was so pissed when i got another letter claiming i downloaded to much after i upgraded my service to avoid this and specifically asked them if it had any download limits and they said no, none, i was so angry i sent an email to watchdog and i would be very pleased if other unhappy customers as your selves would follow maybe if we get enough people to do so they'll investigate them

Surely even UPC must realise that everyone of these letters that they send out is a reminder to the customer that they have deliberately been deceived?

wedgelington

dub45 wrote: »

Surely even UPC must realise that everyone of these letters that they send out is a reminder to the customer that they have deliberately been deceived?

i most certaintly hope so

Thor

Not sure if this has already been posted, But with 100mb finally being launched i had a check to see its limit and i came by this:

UPC wrote:

If you exceed your monthly data transfer allowance as determined by UPC, in our sole judgment, UPC may take any of the following actions, or any combination thereof:

Impose a charge of 3 cent per megabyte or part thereof for exceeding your data transfer limit; and/or
Upgrade your package to a package with a higher data transfer limit with the corresponding higher monthly fee; and/or
Downgrade your upload and download speed for a period of one month to dial-up speed, with your monthly fee remaining the same; and/or
Suspend your access to the services for one month, with your monthly fee remaining the same; and/or
Terminate your account as per the terms of the User Policy and UPC Terms and Conditions.

Seems as though they are going to start charging people for going over the limit, So this will be even worse considering they still say its unlimited and only in the fine print do you discover its not, Also i don't like the AND part, Meaning they could charge you for going over the limit and upgrade your package and cripple your speed. Seems this is getting out of hand since they still don't even offer the ability to even check your usage!!

Interesting to see how people react, I know UPC are better then any other ISP in Ireland but this will cause a lot of love and hate, Glad to see 100mb broadband but not the simple manipulation of its customers. Also anyone who says 500gb is fine and no one should go over it(THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT) The fact remains they still state this on there terms and conditions There is no monthly usage cap for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb. All broadband services are subject to our acceptable usage policy

Nollog

Thor wrote: »

Not sure if this has already been posted, But with 100mb finally being launched i had a check to see its limit and i came by this:



Seems as though they are going to start charging people for going over the limit, So this will be even worse considering they still say its unlimited and only in the fine print do you discover its not, Also i don't like the AND part, Meaning they could charge you for going over the limit and upgrade your package and cripple your speed. Seems this is getting out of hand since they still don't even offer the ability to even check your usage!!

Interesting to see how people react, I know UPC are better then any other ISP in Ireland but this will cause a lot of love and hate, Glad to see 100mb broadband but not the simple manipulation of its customers. Also anyone who says 500gb is fine and no one should go over it(THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT) The fact remains they still state this on there terms and conditions There is no monthly usage cap for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb. All broadband services are subject to our acceptable usage policy

Those clauses have been in the terms for a great many months.
If you look at every other ISP's terms, you'll see similarities.

vibe666

the thing about charging per MB has been in there for years.

i'd like to see what happens if someone goes over by 200-300gb and UPC decide that they want to try and start charging people who go over.

yes they're perfectly within their rights to do so as its agreed to when you sign up, but i wouldn't fancy their chances of getting €900 out of someone for broadband usage. :eek:

PixelTrawler

For the poster above with the gripe about the person in AUP and the dispute over download amount, it would be interesting if a case was taken against UPC - even the small claims court

It might lead to an online meter to stop additional cases.... hard to gripe against UPC if you can at least look at a usage monitor as you go through the month

vibe666

Solyad wrote: »

For the poster above with the gripe about the person in AUP and the dispute over download amount, it would be interesting if a case was taken against UPC - even the small claims court

It might lead to an online meter to stop additional cases.... hard to gripe against UPC if you can at least look at a usage monitor as you go through the month

it would be nice, but it seems like they'e worried people will see the 250gb as a target rather than a limit if they can easily monitor how much they have used.

PixelTrawler

vibe666 wrote: »

it would be nice, but it seems like they'e worried people will see the 250gb as a target rather than a limit if they can easily monitor how much they have used.

It would probably reduce consumption overall...

The people who are real hogs would limit themselves and the people who dont remotely get near the limit are unlikely to suddenly become hogs...

Couple it with auto cut off or to a severe trickle when the limit is breached might help with congestion caused by major hogs in an area

vibe666

imho, that would be by far the best option.

give people a usage meter and send an automated email when they reach say 150gb & 200gb that they will breach the limit in approx. xx no. of days based on current usage patterns and then once they get to 250gb just throttle them to 512kbps down and 128kbps up. enough to limit the damage they can do on the network but not enough to make their browsing experience unusable.

when they've passed the limit, just have a walled garden set up so that the first page they see after logging in for the first time once the limit is breached is a page explaining what has happened and why, that they can then dismiss and carry on at reduced speed. you could even give them a page with the option of signing up manually online where they enter their user details and have an additional agreement to bump them to the extreme package to get their full speed back.

simples.

Capt'n Midnight

Ranicand wrote: »

I agree with you 100%.

There is no excuse for this.

I have UPC 30meg and the best that Eircom can do for me is 1meg.
UPC is a monopoly or fast becoming one.

LOL

In areas where you can't get cable or reliable fixed wireless Eircom are a monopoly, and the line rental is dialysis.

TBH if the regulator hadn't forced NTL to roll out digital TV we could have had NTL broadband years earlier back when eircom were still litterly charging dial-up prices for broadband (based on cost of off peak 64K ISDN usage)

Capt'n Midnight

vibe666 wrote: »

the thing about charging per MB has been in there for years.

i'd like to see what happens if someone goes over by 200-300gb and UPC decide that they want to try and start charging people who go over.

yes they're perfectly within their rights to do so as its agreed to when you sign up, but i wouldn't fancy their chances of getting €900 out of someone for broadband usage. :eek:

LOL

look at the horror stories about people getting raped by the provided over the cost of going over their cap on 3G. I would have signed up years ago to to billpay 3G IF I knew I woundn't inadvertantly exceed my budget, and I don't mean the €50 a day bullshít. One service pack for windows / office / many updates for ubuntu and you are straight into extortion. Paying for 10GB package instead of 1GB solely because you are worried about exceeding 1GB sometimes is also extortion IHMO :mad: The one thing I will say is that there is a meter on 3G

Capt'n Midnight

Solyad wrote: »

to a severe trickle when the limit is breached might help with congestion caused by major hogs in an area

Throttling / traffic shaping is the way to go , something like halving speed each time you go over half of your unlimited cap (ok maybe not so drastic but its doable)

also they should not could inex traffic since essentially free to them

NTL need to show us how much traffic we are using, even an email at the end of the month ??


Yes I could setup a meter at my end, but I swap between three machines all of which are dual boot and would have to setup another box to grab statistics (PC or router - either way they cost money and I'd have to pay for the electricity which adds up over a year)

iknorr

I got the letter today. they said in excess of 430 upload/downloaded.

I find it hard to believe that i used this amount but im not contesting that figure.

CONTACT UPC AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS if u are unhappy rather than just moaning here all the time.

First off, if you agreed over the phone and asked/ were told its unlimited without any usage policies then thats what ur entitled to.

Heres what YOU should do.
***Remeber your speaking to someone at a low level support. They are just like you or me, doing their job. Dont get angry with them. The goal here is to flood UPC with calls and complaints.


First call
Ring UPC, 1908. Its free from any Irish phone. go straight to the Q for an agent rather than going through all the menus.

Ask them for a recording of when you signed up -if you signed up over the phone asked/were not told about the usage policy.
They will ask why you want it etc, just continue to ask them. you might be put through to a manager or something.

You may or may not get anywhere with this, if so end the call without saying anything else.

Second Call
Now ring them again and ask about the fair usage policy and the letter you received. Obviously they wont have any of it.

Heres some points to argue only if they are true to you. If you knew about UPC usage policies then you dont have a leg to stand on.

-I was never told about any acceptable usage policy or fair usage policy and i had asked about it when i signed up. I was told it was completely unlimited.

-I feel cheated by UPC. Why wasnt i told about this when i signed up? Are UPC trying to hide this from potential customers?

-Even though i was never told anything about fair usage policies by UPC until now i feel its in my best interest to abide by the UPC usage policy that i have been just informed about but still contend, until this matter is sorted out.
How may i monitor my usage?
UPC: use a bandwidth monitor. YOU: Impossible, theres multiple laptops, gaming systems & media players that cannot run bandwidth monitors. Are you going to charge me for something that UPC customers cant monitor?
Eircom have a system where you can log in online and check the amount downloaded. This has been done as they couldnt enforce extra charges on you as it wouldn't uphold in court if u used a third party bandwidth monitor.

End the call by asking for the complaints number.

Make an official complaint then contact Comreg about the issue


UPC probably have set guidelines to respond to this.
Remember the goal here is to annoy UPC about this and force them to make changes.
Keep calm. If you get angry then you have lost the battle.

If you knew about the policies already then only call them and ask for access to their bandwidth information so you can monitor it urself. You can say ur unhappy about the 250gb limit and ask if theres any plans for the limit to be raised to say 500GB

Chris_Heilong

Well since UPC are trying to screw me with charging 96euro for the package I already had, I have decided to call them up and ordered the 100mb broadband for 86 euro, 10 euro less and with a 500gb limit. Its not really a victory but its something.

Virgin Media: Jason

Hi iknorr

I have been following this thread, and although I am not authorized to comment on general threads, I do however want to offer assistance to you and anybody else following this thread with regard to this issue, one that clearly is causing some people difficulties.

If you would like me to get your account looked at, please PM me and I will ensure you get a call.

Regards

Jason

iknorr wrote: »

I got the letter today. they said in excess of 430 upload/downloaded.

I find it hard to believe that i used this amount but im not contesting that figure.

CONTACT UPC AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS if u are unhappy rather than just moaning here all the time.

First off, if you agreed over the phone and asked/ were told its unlimited without any usage policies then thats what ur entitled to.

Heres what YOU should do.
***Remeber your speaking to someone at a low level support. They are just like you or me, doing their job. Dont get angry with them. The goal here is to flood UPC with calls and complaints.


First call
Ring UPC, 1908. Its free from any Irish phone. go straight to the Q for an agent rather than going through all the menus.

Ask them for a recording of when you signed up -if you signed up over the phone asked/were not told about the usage policy.
They will ask why you want it etc, just continue to ask them. you might be put through to a manager or something.

You may or may not get anywhere with this, if so end the call without saying anything else.

Second Call
Now ring them again and ask about the fair usage policy and the letter you received. Obviously they wont have any of it.

Heres some points to argue only if they are true to you. If you knew about UPC usage policies then you dont have a leg to stand on.

-I was never told about any acceptable usage policy or fair usage policy and i had asked about it when i signed up. I was told it was completely unlimited.

-I feel cheated by UPC. Why wasnt i told about this when i signed up? Are UPC trying to hide this from potential customers?

-Even though i was never told anything about fair usage policies by UPC until now i feel its in my best interest to abide by the UPC usage policy that i have been just informed about but still contend, until this matter is sorted out.
How may i monitor my usage?
UPC: use a bandwidth monitor. YOU: Impossible, theres multiple laptops, gaming systems & media players that cannot run bandwidth monitors. Are you going to charge me for something that UPC customers cant monitor?
Eircom have a system where you can log in online and check the amount downloaded. This has been done as they couldnt enforce extra charges on you as it wouldn't uphold in court if u used a third party bandwidth monitor.

End the call by asking for the complaints number.

Make an official complaint then contact Comreg about the issue


UPC probably have set guidelines to respond to this.
Remember the goal here is to annoy UPC about this and force them to make changes.
Keep calm. If you get angry then you have lost the battle.

If you knew about the policies already then only call them and ask for access to their bandwidth information so you can monitor it urself. You can say ur unhappy about the 250gb limit and ask if theres any plans for the limit to be raised to say 500GB

iknorr

Thanks for offering support. I have contacted UPC about this recently, the same way i mentioned above.

The agent i talked to was more than helpful.

Im am now waiting on a a reply from UPC regarding this and one other problem i have.

I must add that the response & support i got today about this issue was by far the best I have had with any telecom company.

But i still recommend to everyone who may have an issue to contact UPC.

IrishTonyO

iknorr wrote: »

Thanks for offering support. I have contacted UPC about this recently, the same way i mentioned above.

The agent i talked to was more than helpful.

Im am now waiting on a a reply from UPC regarding this and one other problem i have.

I must add that the response & support i got today about this issue was by far the best I have had with any telecom company.

But i still recommend to everyone who may have an issue to contact UPC.

UPC:JASON is UPC

dub45

IrishTonyO wrote: »

UPC:JASON is UPC

Well lets calm it down a bit - one of their employees I'd say?:)

IrishTonyO

dub45 wrote: »

Well lets calm it down a bit - one of their employees I'd say?:)

Well the official UPC account on boards.ie

or maybe it could be a corporate alien multi-organism lurking in the shadows

vibe666

dub45 wrote: »

Well lets calm it down a bit - one of their employees I'd say?:)

no, he's actually UPCNet, their central cyber brain sent from the future to protect mankind from the dangers of slow broadband. :pac:

PixelTrawler

UPC: Jason wrote: »

Hi iknorr

I have been following this thread, and although I am not authorized to comment on general threads, I do however want to offer assistance to you and anybody else following this thread with regard to this issue, one that clearly is causing some people difficulties.

If you would like me to get your account looked at, please PM me and I will ensure you get a call.

Regards

Jason

Jason,

Any plans to finally provide a bandwidth monitor online. You obviously have this information since you do record the data and send letters.

I had one on eircom 6 or 7 years ago, so its obviously possible

In this day and age, and with so much complaints here about cap enforcement, would it not make a pile of sense.

Oh and maybe then you can drop the "unlimited" sillyness - theres obviously a cap so its pretty clear its not unlimited. A meter takes care of customers feeling duped on that one too