Prez Obama Speaks Tonight

Pocono Joe

Tonight President Obama will address the nation. He will be making his argument directly to our citizens why the economic stimulus (crap) bill is necessary (along with hopes of rekindling the lost magic of his campaign methinks).

But those of us who got out of the hippie years with a few intact brain cells know you don’t just borrow and spend to fix a crisis created by too much borrowing and spending.

You watch... he will recount his visit earlier in the day to Elkhart, Indiana; who have seen its unemployment rate rise to over 15%, largely due to layoffs in the recreational vehicle industry. But when Obama says things like "from crisis to catastrophe," off a cliff," "dark, darker, darkest," and "mortal danger of absolute collapse," any numbskull will tell you it isn’t the kind of talk that makes one feel warm and fuzzy all over and go out buy a Winnebago.

I know his is inexperienced for the job of President, but he is our President, and he will be for 4 years. He needs to realize he is becoming part of the problem. He also needs to contend with the fact he completely dissolved all of his campaign promises of bi-partisanship with two simple words to Republicans... "I WON!" (those two words will haunt him for the next 4 years). He also needs to marry some of that eloquent campaign rhetoric with savvy governance, now that he is President.

I would suggest that Obama remember that he ran against Republican John McCain... but he beat George W Bush, not conservatism.

GuanYin

I'd argue that he beat Sarah Palin and George Bush, in truth, the GOP hijacking McCain away from his own principles is what turned the election even before Palin was onboard.

If you're going to invest money in the American economy, it should be invested at the bottom or not at all. Let the people pay off their debts and in turn the banks get the money, disposable income is raised and the economy is stimulated from the bottom up.

The current plan, just. plain. sucks.

Pocono Joe

GuanYin wrote: »

I'd argue that he beat Sarah Palin...

Remember these words?

"But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed … when the roar of the crowd fades away … when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent’s plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he’s done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger … take more of your money … give you more orders from Washington … and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy … our opponent is against producing it."

Wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants if her words truly displayed foresight, intelligence and wisdom.

GuanYin wrote: »

The current plan, just. plain. sucks.

Wow... we agree! :eek:

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Remember these words?

"But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed … when the roar of the crowd fades away … when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent’s plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he’s done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger … take more of your money … give you more orders from Washington … and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy … our opponent is against producing it."

Wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants if her words truly displayed foresight, intelligence and wisdom.

Those werent her words, those were her speech writers words.

These are her words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQwAFobQxQ

Stimulus Plan: I don't think you'll find anybody who likes the way this is going. But even Bush in his last few weeks had to dole out bailout money. Frankly its as if all of Washington is stumped, not just the Obamanator.

Pocono Joe

Overheal wrote: »

Those werent her words, those were her speech writers words.

And many of Obama's were written by a 27 year old... your point?

Running Bing

Overheal wrote: »

Those werent her words, those were her speech writers words.

Oh please, we're not going to get into that are we:rolleyes:

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

And many of Obama's were written by a 27 year old... your point?

Babybing wrote: »

Oh please, we're not going to get into that are we:rolleyes:

Im just saying, I will not tolerate Palin coming back in 4 years saying she knew it all along. Which would be disgusting.

Pocono Joe

In all honesty, I also hope the words "I told you so" don’t arise in 4 years either. Getting to that point would be catastrophic IMO.

jank

In fairness PJ who was the biggest government spender in US history? Ya thats right Dubya! Lower taxes while increasing spending is not a wise thing to do.

So saying now that you are dead set against spending is a bit rich! Where was this conservatism in the bush years? Was it on hold?

Pocono Joe

jank wrote: »

In fairness PJ who was the biggest government spender in US history? Ya thats right Dubya! Lower taxes while increasing spending is not a wise thing to do.

So saying now that you are dead set against spending is a bit rich! Where was this conservatism in the bush years? Was it on hold?

My two biggest complaints against GWB over the years were over his spending or his blind eye to spending, and his lack of communicating his thoughts and plans to the American people (I wasn’t all that keen on Rumsfeld either but I wasn’t all that vocal about it). I think if you look back over some of my previous points you will see I have complained about these two points more than once. But GWB is history now, we are in the age of Obama.

JohnMc1

Did he just actually blame the Reps for the Stimulus bill not being passed when they have the numbers on their side? :rolleyes:

Manic Moran

Yes.

I think he's finding that life isn't necessarily easier on the other side of the table...

NTM

JohnMc1

He should have realized that before he announced his candidacy. I've never been in Politics but I realize being responsible for over 300 million people is not going to be an easy job. Even without this recession.

Matt Holck

the economy has been tanking for some time
0] don't panic
1] make sure no one starves to death
2] create concrete goals that can be achieved
(say build 100 power plants
or make public transportation a viable option in time spent traveling)
maybe make a deck of cards that outline these goals
3] determine what jobs achieve set goal
4] pass a budget for the project

no need to rush to spending

it's unemployment
that won't be solve in a day


old production methods and products need to be replaced
to match the current population and the availability of resources

Pocono Joe

My observations of last night’s press conference:

We now have an effective communicator as President, who clearly can convey his goals and plans to the American people.

Obama is back campaigning again. Can't this guy answer a question without a ten minute prepared speech?

Either Joe Biden was thrown under the bus and has now been labeled a joke for the next 4 years, or Obama is not playing it straight with us about the stimulus package and we’re about to spend everything we've got on nothing we're sure about.

We got another taste of "It all depends on what your definition of is is." Obama stated there are no earmarks in the stimulus package. Yes, technically he was correct as to the definition of "earmarks," but ignored what the American people’s conception of them are. It is filled with Liberal and Democrat pet project spending which will do diddly squat in stimulating the economy or creating jobs. I’m afraid that 4 years of costly foolishness just started off with a trillion-dollar mistake. My hopes at this point, realizing the stimulus package will be passed, is that the spending will be done in phases and not all at once. We should start the spending first on proven methods that have historically helped stimulate the economy, and leave the "questionable" spending for a later time which will allow us to adjust as factors change.

Calling A-Rod (the baseball player) a "cheat" was rich, especially when he has the nerve to lecture people about cheats when he just hired one and wanted even more on the administration’s staff.

And worse of all, I just watched our government grow exponentially and our country become socialistic in less than one hour. Looks like government no longer has to fear the people... the people need to fear the government.

Matt Holck

the people need to be the government

JohnMc1

Matt Holck wrote: »

the people need to be the government

The people need to remember that the Govt works for them not the other way around.

jank

I want to raise something here. Why are we in this mess? Is it the governments fault. No. It is the fault of the capitalist system as we know it. Yet why are republicans saying just follow what reagan did. Give money to the people which they wont spend anyway! Let capitalism solve the issue when it is a major part of the problem. Im not advocating a communist society but there are no quick fixes here. Spending more money that the government doesnt have is not the best idea, but it is the only idea that might work that I have heard.

I havent heard anything else that may fix this problem.

All im hearing from detracters is pork pork pork. Where were these people in the bush years? What should we do instead. It is very easy to point fingers and be negative, but obama at least is trying out something. What would McCain have done? Something very similar id imagine.

Pocono Joe

Today, the new US administration can disown responsibility for its inheritance; tomorrow, it will own it. Today, it can offer solutions; tomorrow it will have become the problem. Today, it is in control of events; tomorrow, events will take control of it. Martin Wolf (refering to the Obama Administration)

In the presence of such economic uncertainty, it will be disastrous to base policy on hoping for the best. Allowing the bill to be haphazardly thrown together by the chaotic mob rule we call Congress was just plain ridiculous. Who here thinks: ‘We don’t know what we’re doing, so we’ll just toss out $1 $3 Trillion dollars and hope for the best’ is sound fiscal planning?

The problems with the financial system involves panic and insolvency. It may be a bitter pill to swallow but maybe we create new solid banks, and leave the old greedy bad banks to perish if they cannot cleanse themselves of their culture and toxicity.

Matt Holck

I don't think the population understands the spending bills.
I don't think congress should pass it until ithe measure gains in the polls

I don't understand insolvancy

I do understand that new business need capital to start mand this is done through loans.
Why that should be the banks role instead of government, I don't understand.

seems we're throwing public interest into the hands of private companies

Pocono Joe

jank wrote: »

All im hearing from detracters is pork pork pork. Where were these people in the bush years? What should we do instead. It is very easy to point fingers and be negative, but obama at least is trying out something. What would McCain have done? Something very similar id imagine.

I think if the Democrats would cut out the following list of pork pork pork (which produces very little job creation in relation to monies spent) from the stimulus package, you would see the Republicans get on board pretty quick. And also remember, the Republicans offered another version of a stimulus bill that was estimated to create over 2 million more jobs than the Democratic plan, and at half the cost.

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.
• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.
• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).
• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.
• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.
• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.
• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
• $500 million for state and local fire stations.
• $650 million for wild land fire management on forest service lands.
• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.
• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.
• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
• $850 million for Amtrak.
• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

Ruskie4Rent

Pocono Joe wrote: »

And also remember, the Republicans offered another version of a stimulus bill that was estimated to create over 2 million more jobs than the Democratic plan, and at half the cost..

estimated by who?

Pocono Joe

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

estimated by who?

Methodology used by President Obama’s own nominee as Chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, Dr. Christina Romer.
http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=109659

Pocono Joe

I see a "deal" might have been reached on the stimulus package. Hmmmm... $350 billion remaining from TARP I. $1.3 trillion (including interest) from brand new stimulus package. Probably another $2.2 trillion for TARP II. And a $400 billion deficit on current year omnibus spending bill. That's over $4 trillion worth of debt we have to finance somewhere in the next twelve to twenty-four months. So who is going to be buying this worthless paper, and what are the interest rates we’ll have to pay them for their risk? Do what I did, secure your job, have something safe and put away for emergencies, refinance and lock in, and cut expenses. Because mark my words, hyperinflation is coming soon to a town near you. It may just be me and my paranoia, but that 386 point drop yesterday in the Dow Jones after Geithner outlined the "plan," is realization and a vote of no confidence by the marketplace that our government leaders don’t have a clue.

Manic Moran

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I think if the Democrats would cut out the following list of pork pork pork (which produces very little job creation in relation to monies spent) from the stimulus package, you would see the Republicans get on board pretty quick.

In fairness, some of those are rather required, even if they're inefficient. I mean, a Coast Guard cutter is never going to recoup its costs simply by way of the mission of the Coast Guard. Similarly the Washington Sewer System probably does need the money. As does Amtrak.

NTM

Overheal

Also how is $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI pork? The FBI is taking on new recruits at the moment. And its the FBI, not the Peoples Front of Judea. And youth activities seem like a fair investment (as does education if you ever ask me) Though I will agree things like greenifying govt buildings and inspecting canals dont seem at face value to be worthwhile

Matt Holck

roads and pipe are publicly owned to support civilization
perhaps, the power grid needs to be public

Pocono Joe

In November 2008 Rahm Emanuel, Mr. Obama's new chief of staff, told a Wall Street Journal conference of top corporate chief executives "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste," and later went on to say "Things that we had postponed for too long, that were long-term, are now immediate and must be dealt with. This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not do before."

There are probably millions of worthy projects in need of funds, but this is supposed to be a economic stimulus bill with a primary goal of job creation. Not a means of funding pet projects for legislatures who are looking ahead at their own upcoming regional elections.

The tax cut portion means a savings to me of less than $13 per week, yet some mouse in the San Francisco Bay area gets $30 million as a pet project by Democrat Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. I guess when it comes to vermin, birds of a feather really do stick together.

Ruskie4Rent

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Methodology used by President Obama’s own nominee as Chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, Dr. Christina Romer.
http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=109659

And you are just going to take Boehner's word for it?
Romer actually thinks that tax cuts are less effective in job creation than government investment.

Pocono Joe

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

And you are just going to take Boehner's word for it?
Romer actually thinks that tax cuts are less effective in job creation than government investment.

I haven’t heard of any serious democrats countering the claims.

Tax cuts provide immediate relief and institutes purchasing which corresponds to jobs, spending takes time to work through the system. If things were so imperative as Obama claims, you’d think he would have been much more heavier in the tax cut portion of the stimulus bill.

Ruskie4Rent

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I haven’t heard of any serious democrats countering the claims.

The White House countered Bohners claims.

But if that's not good enough for you, why don't you look at the source and see for yourself. http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf

Tax cuts provide immediate relief and institutes purchasing which corresponds to jobs, spending takes time to work through the system. If things were so imperative as Obama claims, you’d think he would have been much more heavier in the tax cut portion of the stimulus bill.

I know it seems only logical that people are going to get the economy moving again if they are able to pay less taxes and spend their extra money but the harsh truth is that, in a recessionary economy, a tax cut may not necessarily encourage consumers to spend and firms to hire. Market confidence will still be low and people will still be inclined to save and pay off their debts.