Arctic ARW units and RAF in rescue mission in Glen of imaal.

trentf

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I sincerely doubt the assistance was unwelcome. Only a complete plank would refuse help when two lives are at stake. In those conditions, the more manpower on the ground, the better the survival chances of the two climbers. If we as a nation still have a chip on our shoulder that prevents us accepting the intervention and assistance of a superbly trained unit to save the lives of our citizens, then we've got a massive problem and need to grow up and move on and operate alongside our international counterparts.

It comes down to what's more important: some arrogant assumption that we have plenty of manpower and shouldn't accept international assistance, especially from the British, or the lives of the two men. I for one am glad the RAF were happy to help, as I'm sure are those two men and their families and friends. We need to be able to work together, and this operation is a wonderful example of mature cooperation.



You have got to be feckin' joking, right? Yeah, I really think the British are thinking of reviving their colonial past, starting here. Good man. We're two nations with the fact that we're islands in common, just off the west coast of Europe; we share a lot of common attributes and are clearly the same market to commercial interests, as well as sharing weather patterns. Any similarities in our parliamentary decisions are a product of the fact that our circumstances are largely the same in nature if not in scale and our tendency to elect weak governments who don't make their own decisions well. Seriously, this national chip on our shoulders is ridiculous at this point. Will we have Gordon Brown making snide comments about Hitler in talks with Germany next?

A chip on the shoulder. Right so you think having a military specialist team flying from a country we have had a history of war with on our territory is ok for the rescue of 2 men? Ok then, call me a nationalist then cause thats what i am and thats what the silent majority of this country is too

Im not saying im not glad that they helped, i say thanks very much appreciate it but we'll do it ourselves in the future. Interoperability is fine i say on neutral ground, or if really needed not for the rescue of 2 men near our capital over our airspace. Im not anti british i admire them.. from a distance of course.

BeardyGit

The RAF Valley Mountain Rescue Team happen to be based out of an RAF base, with a combination of serving & retired RAF members and civilians within their team. The RAF Sea King helicopter is a Search & Rescue helicopter and is used solely for that purpose. It's absolutely normal for this air asset to deploy mountain rescuers (not just RAF) throughout the UK when requested to do so....and in this case, just across the water to Wicklow.

The RAF Valley Mountain Rescue Team and Ogwyn Valley MRT were asked to assist due to the nature of the terrain under snow. The operating conditions are quite unfamiliar to Irish MRT's but are common for those teams operating in Wales during winter.

Likewise, the Irish Coastguard liveried helicopters based in Dublin and Shannon frequently operate rescue missions over UK soil, not just over sea. In this case, an Irish Coastguard helicopter from Waterford flew to British sovereign territory, landed, and returned to Ireland with the Ogwyn Valley MRT onboard. Do you think they've made a song and dance about it?

You can bet they haven't. Nor have the presented a bill. Any of them. Would they do so again in the future? You bet they would, at the drop of a hat I'm sure....and we'd do the same in return.

I've travelled with members of our MRT to Wales for specialist medical training at our own expense so we can operate in the UK if they ever ask us to help....and who's to say when that might be. The last time we did so was to recover the remains of the deceased on a helicopter crash up north...not pleasant. Do you think the locals up there were as ungrateful? No....so, what's your excuse?

For anyone interested, this is not the first time the RAF have assisted us in a search and rescue operation on Lugnaquilla either. Back in the early 60's before we'd bought Alouette's we had the pleasure of their assistance, all paid for by the British taxpayer, to help in recovering the 3 Irish men who fell through a snow cornice at almost the exact same place the two guys were found on Tuesday.....

It's been 47 years or thereabouts, but we were as grateful for their assistance on Tuesday as our predecessors would have been back then. The Irish Coastguard, Air Corps and Gardaí were all delighted to have them here, and why wouldn't they be? To have a crew RISK their safety operating over mountainous terrain to help the rest of us trying to get the job done - That's priceless. Go stick that on your mastercard Trentf..... :rolleyes:

BeardyGit

trentf wrote: »

A chip on the shoulder. Right so you think having a military specialist team flying from a country we have had a history of war with on our territory is ok for the rescue of 2 men? ....blah blah blah

The press described them as a Military Specialist Team. That's not what they are. They're a mountain rescue team who happened to be transported here in the equivalent of our Coastguard helicopters.... What's the issue? Are you just looking for some weak assed reason to whinge? Soon enough the RAF will cease to be responsible for civilian SAROPS, just as was the case here. And that'll be a sad day for everyone who needs rescue....

trentf

Gil_Dub wrote: »

The RAF Valley Mountain Rescue Team happen to be based out of an RAF base, with a combination of serving & retired RAF members and civilians within their team. The RAF Sea King helicopter is a Search & Rescue helicopter and is used solely for that purpose. It's absolutely normal for this air asset to deploy mountain rescuers (not just RAF) throughout the UK when requested to do so....and in this case, just across the water to Wicklow.

The RAF Valley Mountain Rescue Team and Ogwyn Valley MRT were asked to assist due to the nature of the terrain under snow. The operating conditions are quite unfamiliar to Irish MRT's but are common for those teams operating in Wales during winter.

Likewise, the Irish Coastguard liveried helicopters based in Dublin and Shannon frequently operate rescue missions over UK soil, not just over sea. In this case, an Irish Coastguard helicopter from Waterford flew to British sovereign territory, landed, and returned to Ireland with the Ogwyn Valley MRT onboard. Do you think they've made a song and dance about it?

You can bet they haven't. Nor have the presented a bill. Any of them. Would they do so again in the future? You bet they would, at the drop of a hat I'm sure....and we'd do the same in return.

I've travelled with members of our MRT to Wales for specialist medical training at our own expense so we can operate in the UK if they ever ask us to help....and who's to say when that might be. The last time we did so was to recover the remains of the deceased on a helicopter crash up north...not pleasant. Do you think the locals up there were as ungrateful? No....so, what's your excuse?

For anyone interested, this is not the first time the RAF have assisted us in a search and rescue operation on Lugnaquilla either. Back in the early 60's before we'd bought Alouette's we had the pleasure of their assistance, all paid for by the British taxpayer, to help in recovering the 3 Irish men who fell through a snow cornice at almost the exact same place the two guys were found on Tuesday.....

It's been 47 years or thereabouts, but we were as grateful for their assistance on Tuesday as our predecessors would have been back then. The Irish Coastguard, Air Corps and Gardaí were all delighted to have them here, and why wouldn't they be? To have a crew RISK their safety operating over mountainous terrain to help the rest of us trying to get the job done - That's priceless. Go stick that on your mastercard Trentf..... :rolleyes:

Fair enough as long as long as your confirming irish teams operate over the u.k on their territory. Doesn't change the fact that we still need to improve our own operations and put more funding into it though. I doubt the u.k invites irish speicalist teams over for the rescue of 2 men on their territory.

Local-womanizer

This is turning abit walter mitty tbh.The Brits testing our capabilities?:rolleyes:

We Co-operate with the Brits and them with us in many ways,both politically and econmically,is there a problem with that?

If the people involved with the rescue(professinals soliders,pilots and mountain rescue teams) are glad to have that extra support,then why cant you appreaciated it?

Do it ourselves in future?If I was a AC pilot I would take all the help I was offered.It would reduce the time I would have to be out there for and reduce the risk to all those involved.

concussion

trentf wrote: »

I mean they have the equipment so just curious as to why the raf or members of the raf were called into what is essentially soverign terroritory.

trentf wrote: »

Yes its also very unusual and presumptious of the RAF to assume we needed the help or that you had a right to deploy over irish territory.

Do you see a contradiction there trent? They didn't decide to pop over unannounced after watching the 6.1 news - their assistance was requested.

trentf

Local-womanizer wrote: »

This is turning abit walter mitty tbh.The Brits testing our capabilities?:rolleyes:

We Co-operate with the Brits and them with us in many ways,both politically and econmically,is there a problem with that?

If the people involved with the rescue(professinals soliders,pilots and mountain rescue teams) are glad to have that extra support,then why cant you appreaciated it?

Do it ourselves in future?If I was a AC pilot I would take all the help I was offered.It would reduce the time I would have to be out there for and reduce the risk to all those involved.

I agree they should be thankful for all the help they get. But they don't get funding from the government and this must change. Simple solution to a simple problem.

sgt.bilko

Some years ago (pre-good friday), a viable explosive device was located in Derry. It was made safe and the bomb disposal team returned to their base. A politician in Derry decided to ring the BA in Derry to thank them only to be told that his unit weren't involved but to contact another BA unit who may be able to help. In total 4 BA units were contacted and the politician was given the same story, their bomb disposal unit was not involved as they were on a training exercise. Eventually, the bomb disposal unit involved was located and had Irish reg plates on their vehicles.

In relation to Irish Coast Guard Helicopters landing in UK, all you need to do is have a look at youtube.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Would it be right to say, that maybe, the RAF were better equipped? Their air vehicle had better equipment to deal with the situation? Just a thought...

return guide

The two guys were on TV3 this morning, being asked about it by some wooden Plank and a skirt.

All went well, video of choppers, MRt's et.

The guys knew there stuff and it was plain to see that this was not a case of two strollers taking a walk in the snow and not having a clue .

But with the last comment of the Plank mentioning Brokeback Moutain and giggling, the camera cut to one of the guys who looked like he was going to bounce the Plank all around the studio walls.

goldie fish

Kelsey Handsome Desktop wrote: »

Would it be right to say, that maybe, the RAF were better equipped? Their air vehicle had better equipment to deal with the situation? Just a thought...

Their "air vehicle" was a means of transport to get their highly experienced mountain rescue unit over here.

This thread is getting silly. A shame to see the barstoolers coming out. RAF rescued Irish men and women for many years when our own assets didn't have the capabilities.

It is about saving lives.:mad:

jill_valentine

So it's come to this. After all this time, Britain's going to take us over through the cunning use of ... uh.... mountain rescue.

And it was so obvious...

Fair play to all involved, I had been labouring under the impression that the climbers just overconfident eejits. My bad.

vulcan57

trentf wrote: »

If a french military specialist team fly over london to help rescue 2 men there would be uproar in the u.k, here we thank them instead of asking why we didn't have the resources to do it ourselves.

Why would there be uproar if the british had asked for the help like the Irish did in this incident? If two Neighbouring countries can't help each other out when needed without all this suspicion then its a sad day. I'll leave at that or this could start to go way off subject.

punchdrunk

...when my dad was is the coast guard he rescued one of the crew from a ditched seaking,should we have taken him aboard and interned him in the curragh :rolleyes:

our guys still all do their dunker training in the U.K,in the early days of the aer corps SAR they learned the ropes from valley
alot of the crews we have in the coastguard are mixed ex-AC/RAF/RN and civy from as far away as Australia,

next time you get winched to safety be sure to ask the four crew for their passports and their political orientation :rolleyes:

oh and holy god stay away from the water!,perish the thought you'd be saved by the RNLI :eek:

doilie

Fishtits wrote: »

The guys were found all OK, Good outcome.

But, "they lost their map"

Piss poor performance to put it mildly,

I get the feeling that they were buddy's of the local rescue organisations, hence the lack of criticism and the "every" resource available being called...

MRT volunteers are climbers too. Nobody's infallible. It was all hands on deck because two lives were at stake.

Where do you get off criticising volunteers for saving two people's lives???:mad:

Poccington

*Sigh*

Ok lads, the Brits came over and gave us a dig out. There was no test of our capabilities, no invasion of sovereign(Sp?) territory or any other silly ****e people have been yapping on about.

How can some people not see the sense in asking for the help of people who have a wealth of experience when it comes to such rescue ops? This isn't the ****ing 70's, the "war" is over, most civilised people have moved on with their lives rather than blabbering on about "Those bloody Brits etc."

Get over yourselves, you're not impressing anybody by showing your "dislike" for the Brits.

Fishtits

doilie wrote: »

MRT volunteers are climbers too. Nobody's infallible. It was all hands on deck because two lives were at stake.

Where do you get off criticising volunteers for saving two people's lives???:mad:

Where did I criticise anyone? Don't be so bloody touchy.

Good job done by all involved.

My original comments stand until they have been disproved.

doilie

I can't speak for everyone on the hill that day, there were a lot of MR people there. Ireland is a small place, the climbing community is even smaller. Someone probably had met one of those guys somewhere before.

The point is - it wouldn't matter who it was - all the stops were pulled out because of the threat to life.

Believe it or not... they'd even do the same for you...;)

trentf

Would it be right to say, that maybe, the RAF were better equipped? Their air vehicle had better equipment to deal with the situation? Just a thought...

which leads to the question is it time we update our own equipment,

Aren't the rented sikorsky coastgaurd helicopters we use over 40 years old now?

Fishtits

Nowt wrong with our own kit.

I want to know who the "casualties" were.

Sounds like two of our own f*cked up big time to me.

Guess its the current climate where we need a head

neilled

There's a difference between having choppers and having SAR choppers that are designed and fitted with the appropriate hightech equipment for that purpose.

Ireland fleet of 8 Choppers aren't SAR birds,6 are general utility choppers and afaik aren't fitted out with that kind of load (have the final 2 been delivered yet?) The other 2 are smaller.

In reference to the posters taking offence about RAF involvement - go sod off. Neighbouring states should cooperate when lives are at stake. Two lives were saved. It could have been a case of hauling dead bodies off the mountain - theres been three fatalities in Snowdonia in Wales over the past week. Lets be thankful it wasn't the case and next time you get your change in a hiking shop make a donation to the MRT can if they have one - the teams are volunteers and are run on a shoestring budget.

The attitude of those whining reminds me of a time when a local unionist councillor where I'm from took offence when an Air Corps Dauphin conducted a joint exercise with the local RNLI due to the chopper having green white and gold markings, making whining noises about sovereignty and the offence of "the people" at said markings. Idiot.

Loosing a map is one of the most bizarre things I have ever heard though.......

FrostyJack

Loosing a map is one of the most bizarre things I have ever heard though.......

The guys explained they were over confident because they had climbed it so many times before so did not prepare like they would when they climbed else were. The conditions were grand when they went out first then it changed to white out. Their map blew out of their hands in 70 mph winds on the top of a mountain ffs. Next time there is a storm blowing try reading a newspaper and see what it's like. The mistake they made was not carrying a second map, which they full admit. The majority of those involved said people of less experience would not of made it off the mountain alive in those conditions.

As for the critisim of the RAF helping out, you should get back in your time machine, this is the 21st century.

Well done to all those involved.

BeardyGit

trentf wrote: »

which leads to the question is it time we update our own equipment,

Aren't the rented sikorsky coastgaurd helicopters we use over 40 years old now?

The 'Airframe' is that old, but not the engines, blades, avionics, FLIR, Nightsun etc etc etc. They're a great machine and very capable, despite their registration age. They're scheduled for replacement with something like S91/92's which AFAIK are already ordered.

concussion

Just a few things - the majority of Irelands rescue teams work full time jobs and have families and normal lives. Yet they drop these at a seconds notice to head up the mountains to look for total strangers. I did not know until recently that they receive almost zero government funding and I am definately going to make a donation.
They did an execellent job in extremely difficult weather and I hope it raises awareness of what they do.
I am disgusted at the posts here about the British involvement - when they were requested, do you think some of them sat there and said 'only 20 years ago those micks were blowing up pubs...let em freeze up there. You can go, but I'm not flying you over.'??!! Get over yourselves.

Trentf - yes, they definately should get more funding. However this rescue also shows that when one team does not have enough resources there are other teams nearby ready to join in at minimum notice. The amount of teams who gathered around that mountain in a matter of hours is amazing.

Fishtits - why do you want to know who they are?

Sleipnir

Rew wrote: »

Really? What about hostage rescue? I aslo belive that the SAS were deployed in to Lowes Gully in Malaysia to rescue 18 brit soldiers who got lost/trapped. They also were involved in the imediate aftermath of a passanger plane crash in the UK (pure chance that they were driving by when it happend). So i reckon they do plenty of rescue jsut not in this case.

Right, so some British soldiers were called in to help another group of british soldiers and they helped out in a place crash so now the SAS are a search and rescue unit as well?
Would you say it's their promary role? Secondary role?
Hostage recovery is not the same as search and rescue for some climbers lost on a mountain. You can't compare the two and say they're the same or even a vaugely similar situation.
Gimme a break.

Rew

Sleipnir wrote: »

Right, so some British soldiers were called in to help another group of british soldiers and they helped out in a place crash so now the SAS are a search and rescue unit as well?
Would you say it's their promary role? Secondary role?
Hostage recovery is not the same as search and rescue for some climbers lost on a mountain. You can't compare the two and say they're the same or even a vaugely similar situation.
Gimme a break.

The point is they do what they are told and your kidding your self if you think they dont do more mudane tasks from time to time.

Hostage Recovery eh? :rolleyes:

Tabnabs

tricky D wrote: »

Most rescues are due to accidents, they happen, plain and simple. Very, very rarely is sheer stupdity or wilful negligence to blame which would only usually be established after the fact anyway.

Sadly for the lifeboat volunteers this isn't necessarily the case. Especially in Dublin, a lot of the "shouts" are due to people attempting suicide or who have committed suicide. It really makes me angry to hear of the lads having to go out in atrocious conditions and operate in close proximity to land to try and rescue some f***ed up idiot. And then there are all the boats that simply run out of fuel and need a tow home... :rolleyes:

Sleipnir

Rew wrote: »

The point is they do what they are told and your kidding your self if you think they dont do more mudane tasks from time to time.

Hostage Recovery eh? :rolleyes:

I didn't mean to imply that all they do is shoot stuff, I do understand that as members of the defense forces, they may be called to do lots of things. I'd imagine they make tea and go to the cimema too, but their primary role are hostage rescue, recon, Intelligence, sabotage, Counter-terrorism. If someone in Ireland is trapped on a mountain, the SAS wouldn't be the first to be called now would they?


Oh I'm sorry, did I use the wrong terminology? :rolleyes:

Rew

Sleipnir wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply that all they do is shoot stuff, I do understand that as members of the defense forces, they may be called to do lots of things. I'd imagine they make tea and go to the cimema too, but their primary role are hostage rescue, recon, Intelligence, sabotage, Counter-terrorism. If someone in Ireland is trapped on a mountain, the SAS wouldn't be the first to be called now would they?


Oh I'm sorry, did I use the wrong terminology? :rolleyes:

You said "the SAS don't do rescue" we have eatablished they do from time to time. No one is talking about primary roles etc. but you.

The ARW don't do mountain rescue are animal culling as roles but they have done when required.

Just though it was funny that you said "Recovery" as if to divert things from the big bad "Rescue" word.

Irish_Army01

Sleipnir wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply that all they do is shoot stuff, I do understand that as members of the defense forces, they may be called to do lots of things. I'd imagine they make tea and go to the cimema too, but their primary role are hostage rescue, recon, Intelligence, sabotage, Counter-terrorism. If someone in Ireland is trapped on a mountain, the SAS wouldn't be the first to be called now would they?


Oh I'm sorry, did I use the wrong terminology? :rolleyes:

People need to take a deep breath here..


Any one remember the storms of late 80's?? The UK got hit bad, worse than us.. and requested ESB assistance which they received. A C130 landed in Baldonnel and collected a dozen or so Techies with the big Yellow ESB Trucks..

Swings and roundabouts........

Sleipnir

Rew wrote: »

You said "the SAS don't do rescue" we have eatablished they do from time to time. No one is talking about primary roles etc. but you.

The ARW don't do mountain rescue are animal culling as roles but they have done when required.

Just though it was funny that you said "Recovery" as if to divert things from the big bad "Rescue" word.

My point is that when I said they "don't do rescue" I was referring to rescue as it would mean under the subject of this thread i.e. rescuing two trapped climbers from a hill in Wicklow. I really didn't mean this to include "hostage rescue" which I'm sure you'll agree is an entirely different situation.
Two climbers trapped on a hill = storming the Iranian embassy in London and killing hostage takers and rescuing hostages? No, I don't think so and to suggest I compare the two is ridiculous.

Need to rescue someone off a hill? Call mountain rescue.
Need to storm an embassy? Call the SAS.

Anyway, let's just leave it at that.

Duffers

FrostyJack wrote: »

The guys explained they were over confident because they had climbed it so many times before so did not prepare like they would when they climbed else were. The conditions were grand when they went out first then it changed to white out. Their map blew out of their hands in 70 mph winds on the top of a mountain ffs. Next time there is a storm blowing try reading a newspaper and sboards.ie - Reply to Topicee what it's like. The mistake they made was not carrying a second map, which they full admit. The majority of those involved said people of less experience would not of made it off the mountain alive in those conditions.

As for the critisim of the RAF helping out, you should get back in your time machine, this is the 21st century.

Well done to all those involved.

Yes well said! Their mistake was not having the map lanyarded! Bad drills!!

Sleipnir let it go man. There are few things more boring than people arguing about the SAS on an internet forum! Not meaning to be rude like!

Fratton Fred

Irish_Army01 wrote: »

People need to take a deep breath here..


Any one remember the storms of late 80's?? The UK got hit bad, worse than us.. and requested ESB assistance which they received. A C130 landed in Baldonnel and collected a dozen or so Techies with the big Yellow ESB Trucks..

Swings and roundabouts........

The ESB have some very good renault based off road vehicles that are not too dissimiliar to the British army's RB44. I guess that is what the call was for.

nice bit of completely useless info for you!!

cyrusdvirus

jesus....

a little stirring a few days back and it degenerates into a 6 page RAF invasion through the MRT's......

Apologies to all who were being sincere in this thread, and Mairt for playing my part in degrading it to this

For the Record, and with sincerity, hats off to all concerned....... including the 2 victims. Not many people would have survived a night up there in those conditions

Local-womanizer

Irish_Army01 wrote: »

People need to take a deep breath here..


Any one remember the storms of late 80's?? The UK got hit bad, worse than us.. and requested ESB assistance which they received. A C130 landed in Baldonnel and collected a dozen or so Techies with the big Yellow ESB Trucks..

Swings and roundabouts........

Haha never knew that.

Imagine telling your grandchildren you did a tour abroad with the ESB:p

doilie

Gil_Dub wrote: »

The 'Airframe' is that old, but not the engines, blades, avionics, FLIR, Nightsun etc etc etc. They're a great machine and very capable, despite their registration age. They're scheduled for replacement with something like S91/92's which AFAIK are already ordered.

you're quite right Gil - and the team who fly the Dublin bird are a great bunch. Still, it's a pity they can only take 1 stretcher though. They've been looking into changing that for a long time haven't they?

iceage

People......all together......2,3, and B-R-E-A-T-H.

Two experienced guys got into trouble, the appropriate Rescues Services responded, ARW were in the vicinity thankfully and were able to assist, RAF leant a hand winging in extra assistance. Two survivors recovered, nobody got dead. Result in my book, lets leave it at that, good drills everybody.

Next time we all see Mountain Rescue collecting outside Superquin or Tesco's lets all throw in a few bob. (Notes if your loaded!)

Local-womanizer

From Military.ie

http://www.military.ie/dfhq/pubrel/news/2009/february/news10feb.htm