Now they want to take away our minimum wage

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 3:17pm #1

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0210/nera.html

One of these Fianna Fail wallys has more or less just suggested that the minimum wage be reduced. Newstalk has ran with the story and they're lovin it - they had one of these bloody "experts" on and was saying how even those getting the most paltry pitiful (minimum) wage should be taking a hit.
They also had some knob (the filter would've replaced the word I'd like to use with ****) from the Green sub Fianna Fail party on and she was hmming and ahhing her way through and just repeating the same political drivel/rhetoric we've heard for too long.

Eoin · 10-02-2009 3:25pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

- they had one of these bloody "experts" on and was saying how even those getting the most paltry pitiful (minimum) wage should be taking a hit.

Out of interest, how does ours compare to all other EU countries?

ScumLord · 10-02-2009 3:30pm

I'd rather see the government taking €1000 off a rich guy than 10c off a poor one.

Professey Chin · 10-02-2009 3:31pm

eoin wrote: »

Out of interest, how does ours compare to all other EU countries?

2nd highest. Whats our cost of living in comparison?

techdiver · 10-02-2009 3:32pm

eoin wrote: »

Out of interest, how does ours compare to all other EU countries?

We have the second highest minimum wage in Europe behind Luxembourg.

There is an argument that a high minimum wage can stifle employment levels as it leaves some companies unable to afford extra staff.

Corruptedmorals · 10-02-2009 3:34pm

Our minimum wage can hardly be described as pitiful. Second only to France and miles ahead of the ridiculous UK one. That said, cost of living is insane so it should really remain at the same €8.65 and not drop. I for one an glad I'm on a little bit more than it and it can't be taken away from me now..

Smart Bug · 10-02-2009 3:37pm

It actually makes sense, in a clinical fashion. Reducing the cots of wages for a business, it being the major cost associated with most businesses, should in theory lead to a reduction in the cost of living.

However, this being Ireland, the greed of said businesses will probably lead to rampant profiteering and a rise in the general cost of living. Add to that the inevitable fact that the government will make a complete fuck of any measures they introduce.

The_Minister · 10-02-2009 3:39pm

the problem is that the higher the wage is that an employer has to pay, the less worth his while it is (Don't forget to add on PRSI too). Having a very high minimum wage reduces the number of jobs in the economy, and while we had full employment that didn't matter, but now we need people in work ASAP.

Tbh, I'm not sure it would work with the economy in such tatters, but we need people back at work, and creating jobs quickly is necessary.

The_Minister · 10-02-2009 3:41pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd rather see the government taking €1000 off a rich guy than 10c off a poor one.

I don't think you fully understand why this is being tossed out there.
We are nearly bankrupt, and our social welfare bill is rocketing, we need people back to work, and off the State's teat. Reducing the minimum wage is a quick way to create a load of new jobs, by making it cheaper to employ people.

Eoin · 10-02-2009 3:46pm

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

2nd highest. Whats our cost of living in comparison?

I imagine that's also way up there. I'd also say the cost of living is currently particularly high for all those people who have been let go because companies couldn't afford / wouldn't pay the minimum wages.

Smart Bug · 10-02-2009 3:47pm

The_Minister wrote: »

I don't think you fully understand why this is being tossed out there.
We are nearly bankrupt, and our social welfare bill is rocketing, we need people back to work, and off the State's teat. Reducing the minimum wage is a quick way to create a load of new jobs, by making it cheaper to employ people.

Exactly.

Our high minimum wage has undeniably led to an increase in our cost of living. However, lowering the minimum wage alone will not rejuvinate our economy or even halt it's decline. Action needs to be taken on businesses who charge exorbitant prices for their goods and services. I think the Competition Authority recently stated that it would look into capping prices in a number of sectors (groceries, clothes)?

Fran79 · 10-02-2009 3:49pm

Whta kind of reduction in the minimum wage coule we be looking at? €1 more or less?

I agree with the previous poster re min wage in UK - you cant live on it (I know I'm British, moved over here last year). Even if there was a cut to say €7 it would still leave enough to live on and be higher in comparison to the UK (even taking into account the higher cost of living here).

Fran

(Still in shock at the high level of min wage, dole and state pension here!)

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 3:57pm

The_Minister wrote: »

the problem is that the higher the wage is that an employer has to pay, the less worth his while it is (Don't forget to add on PRSI too). Having a very high minimum wage reduces the number of jobs in the economy, and while we had full employment that didn't matter, but now we need people in work ASAP.

Tbh, I'm not sure it would work with the economy in such tatters, but we need people back at work, and creating jobs quickly is necessary.

Grand so, people will be better off staying on the dole and then once they successfully kick people off of that life support they can get the scum back into nothing jobs they are paid peanuts for so that order can be restored...

The_Minister · 10-02-2009 4:02pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Grand so, people will be better off staying on the dole and then once they successful kick people off of that life support they can get the scum back into nothing jobs they are paid peanuts for so that order can be restored...

"Nothing jobs"?
Grow up and don't be such a snob.
Those jobs have to be done, and we need them for Irish people this time around.

Otherwise...exactly.

This isn't nice.
This isn't pleasant.
But sometimes in life the choice is between the lesser of two evils, and when faced with a temporary reduction in the minimum wage, and the complete collapse of Ireland, I know my choice.

Lizzykins · 10-02-2009 4:03pm

Funny how these same employers wouldn't let their nearest and dearest work for the minimum wage. What they'd like is for the rest of us is to work for a bowl of rice a day and be bloody grateful for it.

ScumLord · 10-02-2009 4:11pm

The_Minister wrote: »

I don't think you fully understand why this is being tossed out there.
We are nearly bankrupt, and our social welfare bill is rocketing, we need people back to work, and off the State's teat. Reducing the minimum wage is a quick way to create a load of new jobs, by making it cheaper to employ people.

That's true but that fact is it's the average person that's paying for the mistakes of government and banks. If we really need to save money there's millions floating around the health service and government doing nothing but making the top end employees get fat.

What they really should be doing is bringing proper, modern business practices into these organisations and not making them top heavy and useless with managment.

Why should ordinary people continue to pay for the fat cats mistakes. Why the hell do we let them get away with abusing the system like this?

If it was necessary to cut wages then fine but there's a hell of allot of real problems they could address first before taking another small chunk off the poorest people.

Boskowski · 10-02-2009 4:11pm

Chicken & Egg problem.

One could argue that the high minimum wage contributes to the high cost of living rather than being a symptom of it. Hard to tell, bit of both I guess.

One obvious problem with lowering the minimum wage is that the dole competes even more so with minimum wage jobs. Already people are wondering are you better off on the dole rather than working for the minimum wage. That's not going to get better, unless....we also reduce the dole payments.

Jehova!

Frisbee · 10-02-2009 4:14pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

One of these Fianna Fail

I see what you did there

Fat_Fingers · 10-02-2009 4:18pm

No offense to anyone but i find it scary how huge number of people buried their heads in the sand over the situation we are in.

We are in a freefall. The Republic is borrowing at the rate of €55m euros per day. Yes, that means to run the state we are paying extra 55 million euros per day that we don't have. With stats of 350 new unemployed per day this borrowing will grow even higher. There is no easy options left. "yes something needs to be done but not of my back" attitude will not do anymore. Everyone will have to pay for the mess that bankers, developers, builders, and speculators got us into.

RasTa · 10-02-2009 4:21pm

It is time for the dole que to take a 10% cut. Although I do feel sorry for the people who have a mortgage who are now on it

spank_inferno · 10-02-2009 4:23pm

Before minimum wage changes can be even considered one has to look at
a few things... eg: Who earns it? & Who pays it?

Most of miniumum wage earners are generaly in that position
because of their limited oppertunities due to poor education or
previous life problems like crime etc.
These people are also the most likely to give up on it all and go on
social welfare.

Most of us have probably worked for minium wage at some point.
Many employers cant afford otherwise because their margin is slim.
But can the same be said for them all? eg: Restaraunts & supermarkets.

Consider this.
Drop minium wage to €8
Work a 40hr week & pay your modest prsi tax deduction.
try to pay your rent/utilities.
You get home and the government have posted you your annual
"TV tax" for €160
You become ill and have to go to the doctor.... etc.

If miniumum wages fall, we all loose.
If we fail to incentivise those with poor oppertunities as it is to work
Who will feed/cloth/house them??
And where will this money come from?

The poorest in society didnt cause the recession, they dont deserve
and can ill afford the pain of making the very work they do a waste
of their time

deadhead13 · 10-02-2009 4:26pm

Only 4.5% of the irish workforce is on mimimum wage. I can't see how a reduction will greatly stimulate the economy. Leave them alone.

NewApproach · 10-02-2009 4:28pm

Reducing the minimum wage will allow more people employment. So to be honest it makes sense at the minute.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-02-2009 4:28pm

NewApproach wrote: »

Reducing the minimum wage will allow more people employment. So to be honest it makes sense at the minute.

If this were to happen it would be great, but it is a theory in a very unrealistic scenario. It simply will NOT work.

Think employers will use the extra money to hire extra staff? No, they won't. They will take this reduced wage and trod on with the staff they have. It should create extra jobs, but I doubt it will create a lot. Very few I believe.

The expense of living in Ireland is crazy, how can someone on minimum wages afford bills, rent and food if we take a large cut? Taking a smaller cut might be ok.

If you take money off the dole, ah here, impossible to argue with people who are not scrounging every copper in order to eat. 200 euro is not a lot of money to live off. Bad idea taking a cut there.

Politicians and the like should be taking huge cuts, but no talk of that yet, is there? Again, the average joe soap will the the fall for the fat cats mistakes, while our politicians and fat cat bankers sleep soundly.

gurramok · 10-02-2009 4:28pm

Yeh, if they reduce the min wage, they have to reduce the dole. One is linked to the other at the bottom of the earnings pile. No bloody point reducing the min wage if you 'earn' more on the dole than working for a living!

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 4:32pm

deadhead13 wrote: »

Only 4.5% of the irish workforce is on mimimum wage. I can't see how a reduction will greatly stimulate the economy. Leave them alone.

I'd say that figure is higher techincally...
That's the amount of people on the minimum yes ?
That's the minimum that says that you are

over 18,
a citizen of the state
and have at least 6months working experience

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 4:34pm

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

No offense to anyone but i find it scary how huge number of people buried their heads in the sand over the situation we are in.

We are in a freefall. The Republic is borrowing at the rate of €55m euros per day. Yes, that means to run the state we are paying extra 55 million euros per day that we don't have. With stats of 350 new unemployed per day this borrowing will grow even higher. There is no easy options left. "yes something needs to be done but not of my back" attitude will not do anymore. Everyone will have to pay for the mess that bankers, developers, builders, and speculators got us into.

€55m a day ?
Well, Bruce Springsteen's playing 2gigs here and he's worth about $900M - tax him $200M to enter the country.

Bono's also loaded - I'm sure his bank balance could run the country for a week and keep everyone happy for at least a short period of time as it'd be Bono scrounging and sponging and scraping to make ends meet

professore · 10-02-2009 4:37pm

Alec High Soprano wrote: »

If this were to happen it would be great, but it is a theory in a very unrealistic scenario. It simply will NOT work.

Think employers will use the extra money to hire extra staff? No, they won't. They will take this reduced wage and trod on with the staff they have. It should create extra jobs, but I doubt it will create a lot. Very few I believe.

I'm not sure about that ... if i was employing people in minimum wage style jobs I would use the minimum wage cut it to reduce my prices, therefore generating more business, allowing me to hire more staff. So prices should come down as a result, making it easier for people to live on the new minimum wage. What kills me is the big stores (Dunnes, Tesco, even Lidl and Aldi) and how they keep their prices way higher than up North. This REALLY hurts those on low wages.

Smart Bug · 10-02-2009 4:38pm

deadhead13 wrote: »

Only 4.5% of the irish workforce is on mimimum wage. I can't see how a reduction will greatly stimulate the economy. Leave them alone.

There's a much more insidious reason behind this though. If you lower the minimum wage it allows employers a far greater scope to lower wages in general.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 4:41pm

professore wrote: »

What kills me is the big stores (Dunnes, Tesco, even Lidl and Aldi) and how they keep their prices way higher than up North. This REALLY hurts those on low wages.

All four of those chains that you mentioned need to be taken to task with regards their Anti-Union policy. They're scum, utter scum in my absolutely final and humble opinion.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-02-2009 4:45pm

NewApproach wrote: »

Reducing the minimum wage will allow more people employment. So to be honest it makes sense at the minute.

professore wrote: »

I'm not sure about that ... if i was employing people in minimum wage style jobs I would use the minimum wage cut it to reduce my prices, therefore generating more business, allowing me to hire more staff. So prices should come down as a result, making it easier for people to live on the new minimum wage. What kills me is the big stores (Dunnes, Tesco, even Lidl and Aldi) and how they keep their prices way higher than up North. This REALLY hurts those on low wages.

You can't say aldi charge above market average for their products, they won't beat tesco or some of the other big stores on everything, but they will beat them on most.

Now you say this, but are you the owner of a shop? It's an idea, but people don't run these businesses, idiots do. Look at woodies for example. They hire the bare minimum, because some retard looked at a few charts and figures and decided that woodies staff are stupid, they only stacked shelves so they only needed 2-3 staff from 9 until 6. They have the mentality that customers know what they want, they come in and get it, the staff have no input, they are not sales reps etc etc. These companies will take this pay cut and laugh, they will not pass this on to the customer, as like a lot of other companies, they will put this down as a saving, add it to profits.

I can see this generating very few jobs. I don't understand why they keep kicking the poor when they are down. Minimum wage... think of it.

Now they want to take away our minimum wage

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