Why aren't people gunning for the Greens?

Steviemak

Hellrazer wrote: »

.

I voted FG,Labour and Greens in that order in the hope of getting FF out of government and then the Greens go into coalition with them.That really pi$$ed me off.

So you voted for the Greens (3rd or 4th choice - hardly a ringing endorsement) to get FF out of power not on their policies so your criticism is a bit harsh. I believe people that voted Green No. 1 have been a bit more understanding of the huge difficulties they have faced but are trying to move on with their agenda. Hence their poll numbers have held up.

But shur fine gael would be as bad as fianna fail..and in fairness, thank christ enda kenny isn't in charge...the sooner they get rid of him the better(not that id ever vote for them, but he gives me a pain in my face)..

Red Sleeping Beauty

Back on topic :
Do you view the Greens as a seperate party from FF ? As far as I'm concerned , they're in government with them , they can't disagree with them on any issues, by their agreement they've to vote with FF on all matters.

DublinWriter

The Irish Green Party's will-to-power in getting into bed with FF will be the decisive factor in the destruction of their party. They'll be going down the same sink hole as the PDs very, very shortly.

They are a seperate party...because they're in government the government reaches a consensus on what all parties can vote for...Shur look at the initiative to have 150,000 people cycling to work by 2020 announced by fianna fail minister Lenihan last week..surely a green initiative..or the work of a man with a profound understanding of the upcoming energy crisis..

astrofool

I gave everyone a vote (even FF), bar the greens and SF, a useless party, devoid of any plan that will work in the real world, they embarrass themselves daily.

Jamar

I voted for the greens first. I did not expect them to get into government, but I'm in broad agreement with their policies, so voted that way. I voted Lab. second, and figured that my vote was generally against the gov/FF.

I think they are trying to do what they said they would, with success proportional to their national popularity. They went into government at the cost of their leader. I would even say they did it in the best interest of implementing their policies, and even for the greater good of the government.

Next time, I think green voters will mostly vote green. The party has dirtied their hands, but then that's politics.

The angry anti-FFs may move them down the preference order, from 3rd to 4th.

However, the FF voters might move them up from 4th to 3rd.

Grudaire

The problem they have is that if they walked there'd be an even bigger thread slating them now

Scofflaw

Cliste wrote: »

As far as I know, no they can't just walk at this stage. they've signed a contract that says they're in government with Fianna Fail.

Why they didn't do a deal with Labour is beyond me
Labour, Fine Geys, Greens and inependants would've made the numbers no ?

... and Sinn Féin I think would have been needed

Everybody, including the PDs, Beverly Flynn, and Jackie Healy-Rae. Such a rainbow coalition (FG-Lab-GP-SF-PD-Ind) would have had a government majority of 5 - 88 seats.

Assuming FG wouldn't do a deal with SF - and they wouldn't - there was no possibility of a rainbow coalition. Even if it had happened, it would have been extremely unstable.

I vote Green first preference - not to 'get rid of FF' , but to get the Greens into government - and I think they're doing a pretty good job. The backlog of environmental cases taken by the EU Commission against Ireland are being cleared off, for example.

Most of our disillusioned third-or-fourth-preference FF-kicking "supporters" would probably be opposed to actual Green policies in any case - 'mucking about with vegetables', forsooth.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Hellrazer

Steviemak wrote: »

So you voted for the Greens (3rd or 4th choice - hardly a ringing endorsement) to get FF out of power not on their policies so your criticism is a bit harsh.

I voted Greens because it was the assumed alternative at the time and secondly because of the environmental policies which so far havent surfaced.Light bulb ban anyone--even thats been cancelled.

Scofflaw

Hellrazer wrote: »

I voted Greens because it was the assumed alternative at the time and secondly because of the environmental policies which so far havent surfaced.Light bulb ban anyone--even thats been cancelled.

The light bulb ban hasn't been cancelled. It is being introduced as an EU Directive, which means that it will apply Europe-wide. The specifically Irish legislation is therefore being shelved - which is fair enough, since the only reason for keeping it now would be in order to have Gormley's name on it. Instead Gormley is supporting the EU legislation, and networking with other Greens around Europe to ensure support for it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

And shur aren't they running around in the proverbial dark up in the dail anyway..it'd be worse without the lightbulbs..


(Two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff....)

Grudaire

Hellrazer wrote: »

I voted Greens because it was the assumed alternative at the time and secondly because of the environmental policies which so far havent surfaced.Light bulb ban anyone--even thats been cancelled.

Here's a link to a pdf about the greens first year in government

PDF link

Hellrazer

Cliste wrote: »

Here's a link to a pdf about the greens first year in government

PDF link

Thanks for that Cliste-its an interesting read.Didnt realise that they`d achieved so much in the way of Green Issues.

bmaxi

FF will be loving this. Although I believe the Greens abandoned their principles when they went into government and will be punished accordingly, it wasn't they who were in power when all the shenanigans were going on. FF has to take all the blame for the situation we find ourselves in and the last opinion poll giving them 28% of no. 1 votes is incredible. Imagine, more than one in every four voters would elect them again, we deserve everything we get.

Scofflaw

bmaxi wrote: »

FF will be loving this. Although I believe the Greens abandoned their principles when they went into government and will be punished accordingly, it wasn't they who were in power when all the shenanigans were going on. FF has to take all the blame for the situation we find ourselves in and the last opinion poll giving them 28% of no. 1 votes is incredible. Imagine, more than one in every four voters would elect them again, we deserve everything we get.

It amazes me the way we get people saying "well, party X are FF's mudguard, and we will never vote for them again". The people who say that are usually those who don't vote for either FF (obviously) or FG. That means they will vote for one of the smaller parties.

Small parties, by their nature, can simply wither away and die - it only takes a couple of unlucky campaigns, or a death. They need, at some point, to get into government.

As long as the FF core vote delivers enough seats to make FF the biggest party, then the alternatives are either an FF-led coalition, or a rainbow - and the latter isn't necessarily possible without an SF/FG pairing which simply isn't going to happen this side of reunification - and even then, it would probably just be one of the possible alternatives. As long as FF are the main or only game in town, that means that they will sooner or later get into bed with FF. They have no choice, if they want to see their policies implemented.

So as long as people who oppose FF, but who don't vote FG, are switching their vote from one small party to another, while FF voters continue to vote FF - as they do - then all those voters are achieving is to change FF's partners. Meanwhile, the inevitable criticism of the party that went in with FF takes the spotlight off FF themselves - thereby making the smaller party the mudguard FF needs. It's not FF who turns small parties into mudguards, it's the people who vote ABFF-but-not-FG.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Daroxtar

FF were only delighted to get the greens on board for the simple reason that the greens were going to raise taxes. I'm sure eamonn ryan means well and as a redundant construction worker i welcome his insulation scheme but while there is a possibility of 4000 jobs the reality is that a couple of larger insulation contractors will tie up the contracts with the local councils and then employ foreign lowcost labour to do the work.
forrest gormley onthe other hand has done nothing bar climb a few telephone poles, introduce carbon tax and help destroy the motor industry. i've said before and will repeat- he raises tax but offers nothing in terms of solutions to problems.
slightly off topic but if methane is 20 times more damaging as a greenhouse gas then why not bring in a methane tax for farmers? methane could also be harnessed as a fuel source and while we were at it, the effluent could also be processed as a biomass source. i'm sure sht briquettes would burn ok and plastics etc could be manufactured from it. it could be a new industry for the country. any greens or scientists out there willing to pick up on it?
anyway, i think people are gunning for the govt in general so that includes the greens. and mary hindenburg. if the greens seem to be escaping its just because its not cool or politically correct to have a go at them.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Daroxtar wrote: »

i think people are gunning for the govt in general so that includes the greens. and mary hindenburg. if the greens seem to be escaping its just because its not cool or politically correct to have a go at them.

Excellent

Scofflaw

Daroxtar wrote: »

FF were only delighted to get the greens on board for the simple reason that the greens were going to raise taxes. I'm sure eamonn ryan means well and as a redundant construction worker i welcome his insulation scheme but while there is a possibility of 4000 jobs the reality is that a couple of larger insulation contractors will tie up the contracts with the local councils and then employ foreign lowcost labour to do the work.
forrest gormley onthe other hand has done nothing bar climb a few telephone poles, introduce carbon tax and help destroy the motor industry. i've said before and will repeat- he raises tax but offers nothing in terms of solutions to problems.
slightly off topic but if methane is 20 times more damaging as a greenhouse gas then why not bring in a methane tax for farmers? methane could also be harnessed as a fuel source and while we were at it, the effluent could also be processed as a biomass source. i'm sure sht briquettes would burn ok and plastics etc could be manufactured from it. it could be a new industry for the country. any greens or scientists out there willing to pick up on it?
anyway, i think people are gunning for the govt in general so that includes the greens. and mary hindenburg. if the greens seem to be escaping its just because its not cool or politically correct to have a go at them.

Unfortunately, while it's obvious that agricultural methane (and other farming practices) shouldn't be ignored, the level of political support outside the Green movement for doing so is a good deal less than zero. Them's are, as they say, sacred cows.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Daroxtar

Scofflaw wrote: »

Them's are, as they say, sacred cows.

nice:D.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Slaughter them

bmaxi

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Slaughter them

Who, the cows or the Government? I know which one I'd choose.

grahamo

All the greens have done is cost me more money by raising taxes without providing solutions or alternatives. Nice move by FF, When people complain about carbon taxes etc, FF can say 'Nothing to do with us, it was the Greens'. FF caused the problems, not the smaller parties that went into coalition with them.

Raiser

Hellrazer wrote: »

Dont even get me started on FF :mad::mad:

I never have and never will be a Fianna Fail supporter.

I voted FG,Labour and Greens in that order in the hope of getting FF out of government and then the Greens go into coalition with them.That really pi$$ed me off.

I think this is really getting to the point - I also voted Green thinking I was voting against FF and for fresh sincere politics.

- What did I get? A clueless, hypocritical pack of fools acting as a shameless Gestapo for FF. The perception that they would have enthusiastically sided with the Nazi Party if it had been an option is why people hate The Greens more than anyone else......

.........That and the fact that they are stupidly ineffectual and ineffectually stupid.

Darsad

[quote=alan dunne 27

Some rubbish scheme to get kids to eat fruit and vegetables.
I voted for this shower and I've regretted it ever since.[/quote]

You see there,s the problem you and so many others gave the comfort vote to the snots in better economic times . In difficult times the last thing you want elected let alone propping a defunct government is a green party.

FF can do as they like as the last thing the snots want is a general election as they will return a big fat nil point.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I've never voted for either FF or FG . I have voted socialist and/or independant where appropriate, Green and a prefernce to Labour.

rcecil

Right on Lisbon
Right on the Environment
Right on the Economy
Right on Bush's War and Shannon Stop Overs
Right on Gaza

Brilliant Leadership -- Adams, McDonald, Doherty, DeBrun --Sinn Fein is the only real opposition party to corporate thievery.....

Grudaire

Raiser wrote: »

- What did I get? A clueless, hypocritical pack of fools acting as a shameless Gestapo for FF. The perception that they would have enthusiastically sided with the Nazi Party if it had been an option is why people hate The Greens more than anyone else......

.........That and the fact that they are stupidly ineffectual and ineffectually stupid.

Listen I've asked you for examples on how this is in your own thread. the only solid thing you have is them going into government

rcecil wrote: »

Advertising sh*te, in a completely random thread.

Daithinski

Hellrazer wrote: »

I voted for them aswell--and Ill never vote for them again.

+1 from me too (the green party that is!)

Red Sleeping Beauty

Cliste wrote: »

Listen I've asked you for examples on how this is in your own thread. the only solid thing you have is them going into government [with Fianna fail]

That's plenty to be honest.