Uk may downgrade E

francois

A study has recommended downgrading E from a class A to B drug

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/feb/11/ecstasy-downgrade

RaverRo808

They should make those herbal E's here a class A,they are unbelievably dangerous,seen alot of people freak out on them,or have a week long kill yourself buzz

Zascar

Thread Cleaned - Topic is valid as this is very relevant to many forum readers.

Check out this video from the BBC where a team of top scientists did a study where they rate the 20 most dangerous drugs in use. Ecstasy is way down at number 18 - miles behind Cigarettes at number 6, and Alcohol at number 5.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs/drugs-law/Class-a-b-c/

I think Class A is unfair, I don't think anyone deserves jail time for possession. However I still think it is a dangerous drug and misuse can have disastrous consequences.

I also think some research into the legal ones should be done. I've never done them myself but I've heard some horrible stories

FLYNN-DOG

Ah....thought something was up!

jtsuited

just to agree with raver ro here - some of that 'herbal' legal stuff is feckin dangerous, and right now we know a lot more about ecstasy than we do about any of that stuff.

scary to think someone would go buy that stuff as a 'safer' option. just shows the inherent lunacy of drug laws.

SteveDon

those "herbal" pills arent herbal at all, the active chemical is BZP which is a particularly nasty mdma substitute, guaranteed to keep you up all night and leave you with horrific skag in the morning

been reading up on this advice given to the home office about ecstasy, the experts are basically being ignored as their findings are against the norm, and heeding their advice in changing the drug from class A to class B could be political suicide for the home office considering the inivetable reaction from the british press

although drug laws are more open to question than ever before, the reconstituting of cannibis from class c to class b could be a sign of the times as political actors fall under pressure from anti drug lobbys

in my personal experience the use of ecstasy is completely safe and aslong as your not an idiot, quadruple dropping and the like, you can stay completely in control and have a great night, would recommend it to anyone

The G Child

jtsuited wrote: »

just to agree with raver ro here - some of that 'herbal' legal stuff is feckin dangerous, and right now we know a lot more about ecstasy than we do about any of that stuff.

scary to think someone would go buy that stuff as a 'safer' option. just shows the inherent lunacy of drug laws.

Yeah, those Party Pills are awful comedowns and the depression that comes with them is horrendous. They should be whipped off the shelves.

jim o doom

SteveDon wrote: »

in my personal experience the use of ecstasy is completely safe and aslong as your not an idiot, quadruple dropping and the like, you can stay completely in control and have a great night, would recommend it to anyone

I would temper that suggestion with "if you have a very addictive personality, maybe stay away.. they sure are fun, but fun that's easy to have on a regular basis if yer silly about it "

of course this is in a society where regular habit drinking & smoking are fairly normal, so that temper part would really encompass everyone that would possibly take it!

to note, I drink, smoke green & have indeed indulged in the e the odd time myself.. I also don't think the UK will downgrade it, especially in light of them reclassifying weed (so pointlessly) again.

aceberg

always wondered what ppl meant when they spoke about herbal e's.wondered if they were actually talking about party pills most of which contain bzp as mentioned.appears that they were.i've only ever tried a couple of the party pills.never had any bad come downs.never droped any more than 1 in any 1 nite.1 is well enough imo.as they do tend to keep you awake.

my brother has told me he was doing 2/3 a nite when he did them,he done 2 in a half an hour 1 nite and went a little of the head.tripping like mad and ended up in hospital.some people have no patience.drop 1 and give it plenty of time.and stick to 1 or 1 and a half.sorry i did 1 and a half the last time.no bad come down,but just no sleep.will stick to just the 1 the next time.drop the half at 4:30 in the morning so this probably aided the lack of sleep.

the ones i did last time were speed rushes.and i was getting some serious rushes off them.they were pretty good.imo.my brother did these other ones called diablo's and they are 500mg :eek:.he did 3.now this is messing.5oomg alone is serious.no wonder people go of the head on them.do people know the strenght of the ones there taking before they take them probably not.it does actually mention on the box of possibly insomnia and the does and dont's.so........................

fabbydabby

The reason 'herbal' (!) pills are legal is simply because they are not illegal. Nothing more. They are not legal because they have been studied and safe.

I have done quite a bit of study and work in the pharma industry. I see above that some people(stevedon?) are under the impression that pills/mdma are safe. This has not, to my knowlege, been proven under extensive clinical trials and the long term effects of moderate ecstasy use are still unknown as it is a relatively recent drug in the grand scheme of things.

But its very rare that people get ill or die from this right? Does this mean we should still take it? Look at thalidomide, which was an FDA controlled drug, tested erxtensively and manufactured in a regulated clinical enviornment by chemical engineers and chemists. It destroyed the lives of thousands. There are incidents of these occurances right back to the 19th century, in the 40's you had a cough elixir which killed a load of kids becuase it's active ingredient was ethalyne glycol which is pleasent on the pallette, but has the unfortunate side effect of causing you to die.

Then you had the polio vaccine... one company didn't deactivate the vaccine properly and gave a load of people polio.

These are regulated, tested clinical treatments. Now look at pills, right?

OK there was a lot of scaremongering back in the day about rat poison etc etc, but the fact remains that
a) You still have no idea what you are getting
b) Some dude is manufacturing the active ingredient in his fkin bathtub or something!

So I'll be giving them a miss, thanks.

jim o doom

fabbydabby wrote: »

So I'll be giving them a miss, thanks.

Yeah, however clinical tests under industrial conditions, tests a limited number of people & then the problems were discovered when the drugs were released to large groups of people. The amount of people taking "E" on a regular basis is a FAR greater number than would have ever occurred in any clinical test, ever conceived.. and the number of fatalities are very low and of course any birth issues from the children of users in terms of defects, nothing seems to have been reported at all.

And this thread wasn't about suggesting people do it, or recommending that you yourself do; it's about the UK downgrading it legally as it is something a lot of people do regularily & whatever elements of safety/danger exist, it is POINTLESS to criminalise users as it only costs the state money and achieves nothing, because guess what, people will continue to use, regardless.

I don't think it will be downgraded though, the legislators have to bow to public opinion and I don't believe that there will be enough public support for it at all considering the re-upgrading of cannabis.

RaverRo808

jim o doom wrote: »

Yeah, however clinical tests under industrial conditions, tests a limited number of people & then the problems were discovered when the drugs were released to large groups of people. The amount of people taking "E" on a regular basis is a FAR greater number than would have ever occurred in any clinical test, ever conceived.. and the number of fatalities are very low and of course any birth issues from the children of users in terms of defects, nothing seems to have been reported at all.

And this thread wasn't about suggesting people do it, or recommending that you yourself do; it's about the UK downgrading it legally as it is something a lot of people do regularily & whatever elements of safety/danger exist, it is POINTLESS to criminalise users as it only costs the state money and achieves nothing, because guess what, people will continue to use, regardless.

I don't think it will be downgraded though, the legislators have to bow to public opinion and I don't believe that there will be enough public support for it at all considering the re-upgrading of cannabis.

But the same logic could be applied to Herion and Cocaine users,dont criminise users because it costs the state millions you say,its costing more to rehabilitate coke heads and gear heads due to its massively addictive nature,just because its E you should be left alone,drugs are drugs,how can you discriminate between who takes what?

Neurojazz

I met a pharmacist once and she swore by sticking to amphetamines because she knew exactly what she was making lol

The G Child

RaverRo808 wrote: »

But the same logic could be applied to Herion and Cocaine users,dont criminise users because it costs the state millions you say,its costing more to rehabilitate coke heads and gear heads due to its massively addictive nature,just because its E you should be left alone,drugs are drugs,how can you discriminate between who takes what?

But that is the point i think Ro, Ecstasy is currently classed the same as Heroin and Cocaine. This should not be the case as the devastating effects of heroin and cocaine are far more serious than that of Ecstasy.

I think a lot of peoples addictive personalities determine a persons willingness to move from E to stronger drugs. I take ecstacy, but have no interest in Coke or Gear, or even hash. I have never had any bad experience on it, and anyone I know who has, had been taking a load at a time. In my opinion it is like anything, taken in moderation is ok, but over use is going to lead to trouble. Just like Alcohol or solpadeine. Just my opinion, not saying its the right opinion.

Zascar

Of course. It's like how 98% of people enjoy alcohol now and again without any terrible repercussions. However there is always a very small few that cannot handle it and it becomes a problem for them. It is after all an addictive drug and unfortunately does ruin the lives of a small few. However in this case the small few do not ruin it for the rest of us. No one is suggesting banning alcohol, because its is part of our society. However as the study I mentioned above shows, if Alcohol was only discovered today, it would instantly be banned due to its addictive nature and the large amount of damage it does to the body, thousands of people from its effects every year.

However ecstasy is apparently a far less dangerous drug. Some think it can lead to brain damage but any real research shows that when you are young brain can recover, its possible that your short term memory can suffer slightly. There are only a small amount of deaths ever recorded as a result, and most are related to something different like previous heart problems or dehydration etc.

Do I think they should be made legal? Absolutely not. But I don't think someone deserves to go to jail for having a handful of pills on them

stomprockin

RaverRo808 wrote: »

They should make those herbal E's here a class A,they are unbelievably dangerous,seen alot of people freak out on them,or have a week long kill yourself buzz

LOL are the E's realy that bad theas days??

Nolanger

Can't believe 20 years after E's arrival in the media it's still in the news :

DarkJager

You haven't experienced the true horror of head shop pills till you are skagged beyond belief from them, suffering through watching Power Rangers & assorted other early morning programming

jonny68

Nolanger wrote: »

Can't believe 20 years after E's arrival in the media it's still in the news :[/QUOTE

I know it's unreal isn't it,you only have look at the media and the fools they have made of themselves with some absolutely outrageous horror stories about "the evils of ecstasy":rolleyes: one pill can kill:rolleyes: they are highly addictive:rolleyes: as someone who has taken vast quantities of E in the past i can safely state that Ecstasy as long as it's not abused is no less dangerous than alcohol,i know it's been said countless times before but it really needs to be said again that alcohol and cigerattes are the cause of substantially more deaths per year than ecstasy.

Legalisation of Ecstasy is the only answer,although seen as Ireland in many respects continues to live in the dark ages i can never see that happening.

KevIRL

jonny68 wrote: »

as someone who has taken vast quantities of E in the past i can safely state that Ecstasy as long as it's not abused is no less dangerous than alcohol,

Surely taking 'vast quantities' is abusing it though?

DarkJager

KevIRL wrote: »

Surely taking 'vast quantities' is abusing it though?

THIS is abuse

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/Article/20080641217593

jonny68

KevIRL wrote: »

Surely taking 'vast quantities' is abusing it though?

To an extent yeah,but you must remember this was over the period of many years, sure there have been occasions where ive completely gone over the top most have at some stage.;)

jonny68

DarkJager wrote: »

THIS is abuse

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/Article/20080641217593

I don't think it's possible to take that many pills to be honest:eek:

jtsuited

DarkJager wrote: »

THIS is abuse

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/Article/20080641217593

i read about this case a good while ago. comparitively speaking, if someone was to drink the same amount (as in be drunk every hour of every day) over the same time, I'm almost sure they'd be dead.

RaverRo808

jonny68 wrote: »

Nolanger wrote: »

Can't believe 20 years after E's arrival in the media it's still in the news :[/QUOTE

I know it's unreal isn't it,you only have look at the media and the fools they have made of themselves with some absolutely outrageous horror stories about "the evils of ecstasy":rolleyes: one pill can kill:rolleyes: they are highly addictive:rolleyes: as someone who has taken vast quantities of E in the past i can safely state that Ecstasy as long as it's not abused is no less dangerous than alcohol,i know it's been said countless times before but it really needs to be said again that alcohol and cigerattes are the cause of substantially more deaths per year than ecstasy.

Legalisation of Ecstasy is the only answer,although seen as Ireland in many respects continues to live in the dark ages i can never see that happening.

Johnny dont mean to be smart with ya chief but didnt ya say you were unemployed at the moment,would you not say that if you had of put your head down and hit the books instead of taking vast amounts ectasy you would have been on your way to your high paying job at the moment instead of the dole office,lol,sure they must be addictive if you were taking that many,lol

jonny68

RaverRo808 wrote: »

jonny68 wrote: »

Johnny dont mean to be smart with ya chief but didnt ya say you were unemployed at the moment,would you not say that if you had of put your head down and hit the books instead of taking vast amounts ectasy you would have been on your way to your high paying job at the moment instead of the dole office,lol,sure they must be addictive if you were taking that many,lol

haha that was a long time ago mate, you don't seriously think at my age id be able to physically and mentallly take E's all time like the way i used,i don't even take them anymore anyway i usually take MDMA about 4/5 times a year compared to taking yokes 4/5 times a week back in the day.:eek:

And there's a good chance ill be moving to Leeds, im here at present(my mot lives here)and there;s a lot more work here than Dublin,plus it's a lot lot cheaper than rip off Ireland, i cant believe how cheap it is in fact it's deadly.:cool:

RaverRo808

jonny68 wrote: »

RaverRo808 wrote: »

haha that was a long time ago mate, you don't seriously think at my age id be able to physically and mentallly take E's all time like the way i used,i don't even take them anymore anyway i usually take MDMA about 4/5 times a year compared to taking yokes 4/5 times a week back in the day.:eek:

And there's a good chance ill be moving to Leeds, im here at present(my mot lives here)and there;s a lot more work here than Dublin,plus it's a lot lot cheaper than rip off Ireland, i cant believe how cheap it is in fact it's deadly.:cool:

Id probably be on the boat with ya,but responsibilities ya know yourself,lol