What would you charge for this job?

Overblood

I already have the price decided, I just want to compare and see what everybody else would charge. I'm not a professional by the way, I don't take photos for a living ie. to feed myself.

I'll be photographing for a DJ, getting pics of the crowds, individuals, couples, the DJ himeslf spinnin' away, dancers and laser lights etc. Basically every aspect of the night out. I'll be there from about 10pm till 3am. So what price would yizzers demand?

Covey

It's all dependant on image usage. What's that?

Borderfox

€200

Covey

Borderfox wrote: »

€200

I'd sub-contract Borderfox and charge a decent price

Dara Robinson

I would have to agree with Borderfox, €40 p/h is a good price for you and them. Not too much not too little

Professionals would clearly charge more, some times well over the €1000

If you dont like the €200 and think its too little I would advise going above €500 as a non-professional I think you would be over charging for the job.

Fajitas!

I'd be er-ing on the side of 300 tbh. You're there for the whole night, and covering the whole event rather than just a performance.

By the sounds of it, it's not just the DJ you're shooting for, but the club/promotions on the night.

Overblood

It's not really for the club, it's for the DJ's "brand" of night. He has a unique setlist and brings all these lasers and dancers and whatnot, and I think it's fancy dress too. Sounds like a bleedin circus haha!

The usual photos he has from his gigs are shakey, drunken beer-splattered pieces o' sh*t sent in from the punters. He needs a few serious ones to back him up and make him seem a bit more "pro", since he wants to bring his DJing to other towns, colleges and cities.

Covey

Personally I'd be looking for at least €300 and probably closer to 400.

Don't forget it's nearly a normal days work. 5 hours in the club, say an hour travel to and from and 1-2 hours Post processing and presentation.

Fajitas!

I'd consider it more of an event than a gig in the above case...

Borderfox

I wouldnt charge that!! based on what the op said thats what I would suggest. Risky business shooting in a busy club, maybe factor in some insurance for you and crowd?

Overblood

I don't need insurance in my town!

Arciphel

Shooting in a nightclub, I hope you've got lots of fast prime lenses!

TelePaul

Hmmm. I'd charge €100

Overblood

I'd know a good few people in the club anyways. It wont be risky and I know that for a fact.

So some of ye would charge 400??!! Jaysus. I settled on 200e with the DJ. It's not as if it will be hard work, taking photos while chatting up biatches and having a few drinks. If his events get any bigger and his plans of Ireland-wide fame come to fruition, I'll be hiking up that price for sure. But once it's a small town small-time operation and I'm a small-time photographer, 200e will do me just fine. Just enough to pay off the paypal bill for me 430ex.

Covey

Overblood , you charge what you are happy with , thats all that matters at the end of the day.

Overblood

Arciphel wrote: »

Shooting in a nightclub, I hope you've got lots of fast prime lenses!

You don't really need prime lenses. An external flash is very handy especially since it helps focus in the dark with it's IR beam. And a nice WIIIIDE lens. Flashes are good for isolating the subject, giving their skin a natural enough look (just using a prime without a flash, the mad lasers would be lighting peoples faces purple yellow and green and it would look silly and unnatural) and for keeping the background fairly dark except for a few dico lights here and there. It gives the illusion of a bigger club if you can't see the dimensions of the club ie. walls ceilings etc...

The flash would be down to about -1/8 or -1/16 power so as not to blast the place to smithereens with light. Also, with the flash you can play around with 2nd curtain sync, good craic.

Fajitas!

Well, the insurance wouldn't be for your camera gear, that's cheap to replace. It's if someone trips over your bag and breaks a leg, or you swing your camera and take out someone's eye that'll be expensive...

TelePaul

Overblood wrote: »

Ah Ireland and it's attractive inhabitants...

Overblood

Well, the insurance wouldn't be for your camera gear, that's cheap to replace. It's if someone trips over your bag and breaks a leg, or you swing your camera and take out someone's eye that'll be expensive...

My bag won't be on the floor in the nightclub, It'll be tucked away out of sight with the DJ's stuff. If somebody is walking all over mine and the DJs equipment they deserve to have both legs broken.

And I don't see how I can injure anyone with my camera. I won't be swinging it around like a mace or anything, it's a camera! It'll be on a strap around my neck. I think I'll be OK for insurance.

Would you get insurance for every one of your jobs Fajitas?

Overblood

TelePaul wrote: »

Ah Ireland and it's attractive inhabitants...

Yeah that's Biddy O' Shea on the left, Maggie O' Toole on the right. Nice boobs though.

Fajitas!

Overblood wrote: »

My bag won't be on the floor in the nightclub, It'll be tucked away out of sight with the DJ's stuff. If somebody is walking all over mine and the DJs equipment they deserve to have both legs broken.

And I don't see how I can injure anyone with my camera. I won't be swinging it around like a mace or anything, it's a camera! It'll be on a strap around my neck. I think I'll be OK for insurance.

You say that like nothing bad could never happen

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but it is something worth considering.

Generally, insurance is yearly

Covey

Overblood wrote: »

And I don't see how I can injure anyone with my camera. I won't be swinging it around like a mace or anything, it's a camera! It'll be on a strap around my neck. I think I'll be OK for insurance.

Would you get insurance for every one of your jobs Fajitas?

Think thats the difference between an amateur and a professional.

The professional depends on it for his livelihood and takes all reasonable steps to protect that.

The amateur doesn't depend on it, takes risks and shortcuts and hopes it all works out.

Personally, I'd not even consider something in public without insurance. As Fajitas says, a major accident and you're in the deep stuff. And don't believe these things don't happen either

Dragan

Covey wrote: »

Personally, I'd not even consider something in public without insurance. As Fajitas says, a major accident and you're in the deep stuff. And don't believe these things don't happen either

Long before i was into photography i used to do Event Security. Gigs and Festivals and the like. I would see all kinds of insane and crazy accidents happen that really would leave you thinking "How the hell did that happen?" even though you had just witnessed it with your own eyes.

Insurance is a must, especially if you are leaving yourself open to be liable for what may happen.

I would put it simply that i will never get into the situation of having to ask someone to move even one step left or right for a photograph without having myself covered.

Then again, i also spent some time working in the claim minefield that is personal training.

Overblood

Covey wrote: »

Think thats the difference between an amateur and a professional.

The professional depends on it for his livelihood and takes all reasonable steps to protect that.

The amateur doesn't depend on it, takes risks and shortcuts and hopes it all works out.

You're making me (amateur) out to be a right feckin snake there.

Can anyone tell me what kind of things can go wrong other than swinging a camera around and lobbing somebodies eye out? Any personal stories where insurance came into play?

Gambler

Overblood wrote: »

You're making me (amateur) out to be a right feckin snake there.

Can anyone tell me what kind of things can go wrong other than swinging a camera around and lobbing somebodies eye out? Any personal stories where insurance came into play?

I think they are more trying to look out for you. If someone accidentally gets injured it's you that can end up getting sued..

If you don't want to get insurance it's no skin of their nose, their not taking the risk..

Covey

Overblood wrote: »

You're making me (amateur) out to be a right feckin snake there.

The comment was a general one and no I don't think your a snake, though maybe a bit foolish. Meant in the nicest possible way.

Here is some good advice.

In your specific case how about you stumble over a cable and wreck the turntable( or whatever it's called now). Cost a bit I would imagine. People related stuff of course much more expensive.

Fajitas!

Exactly Gambler, we wouldn't be saying it if we weren't trying to help.

Dragan

Overblood wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what kind of things can go wrong other than swinging a camera around and lobbing somebodies eye out? Any personal stories where insurance came into play?

Why the need for proof. Nobody is trying to prove to you that God exists, or buying stock on margin is a good idea.

They are just giving you advice, that insurance is important. It's up to you to make your own clever business decision.

Overblood

Dragan wrote: »

Why the need for proof.

I just didn't think that insurance would be important for what I'm planning to do, now eveybody is telling me I'm taking risks and cutting corners, and I really don't know what could go wrong. So I asked for examples, personal stories, anecdotes.

Covey

I posted a link that has some examples. I also gave a practical example that is not beyond the bounds of possibility.

AnimalRights

€200 and no insurance.....but I've gambled all my life. :cool:

Overblood

Ok hypothetical situation.

So what if I'm just wandering around town on a lazy saturday with my camera, and I decide to start swinging it around and end up taking somebodies eye out. They subsequently sue me for say 1million euro. Would the public liability insurance cover me for that or is it only when I'm working?

PaulieC

Let's see now

Overblood wrote: »

The usual photos he has from his gigs are shakey, drunken beer-splattered pieces o' sh*t sent in from the punters.

Overblood wrote: »

It's not as if it will be hard work, taking photos while chatting up biatches

Overblood wrote: »

If somebody is walking all over mine and the DJs equipment they deserve to have both legs broken.

Overblood wrote: »

Yeah that's Biddy O' Shea on the left, Maggie O' Toole on the right. Nice boobs though.

Overblood wrote: »

So what if I'm just wandering around town on a lazy saturday with my camera, and I decide to start swinging it around and end up taking somebodies eye out.

Overblood wrote: »

I'm not a professional by the way

Damn straight you're not

Burago

Most decent commercial photographers would definitely be charging over €500 for the job you're talking about. It's 5 hours at the more expensive after office hours rate. There would also be a charge for a contact sheet and mileage and then a fee for each file used.

If you even spend 5 hours shooting and 5 hours in post production it's only making you €20 an hour.

Fajitas!

Overblood wrote: »

Ok hypothetical situation.

So what if I'm just wandering around town on a lazy saturday with my camera, and I decide to start swinging it around and end up taking somebodies eye out. They subsequently sue me for say 1million euro. Would the public liability insurance cover me for that or is it only when I'm working?

It depends on the insurance you take out, it's up to yourself to ensure it does, but generally, yes.

Borderfox

Burago wrote: »

Most decent commercial photographers would definitely be charging over €500 for the job you're talking about. It's 5 hours at the more expensive after office hours rate. There would also be a charge for a contact sheet and mileage and then a fee for each file used.

If you even spend 5 hours shooting and 5 hours in post production it's only making you €20 an hour.

If I did that job I would shoot in jpeg and be finished when the dj was, no pp.

Eirebear

Borderfox wrote: »

If I did that job I would shoot in jpeg and be finished when the dj was, no pp.

really?

I struggle not to do some sort of PP on any shots i take before giving them to a client.
Maybe its habit, or maybe its a confidence thing..i dunno.

PCPhoto

OP are you looking for what to charge or advice on how to shoot it ...... as regards what to charge, thats dependent on what you are comfortable with - you already mentioned you are not a professional - so they probably dont expect professional prices.

- How many pics do they want/need from you?
- Why must you be there all night ?
..... you could probably do that job in an hour or less - lets face it the only difference between the way people will look at the start to the end of the night is drunken-ness .... they will be completely wasted and will end out doing stupid things like jumping on top of people that you are trying to photo - they wont realise that its dangerous (Hence the reason why you may need insurance)

I would cover the event for maybe 1hour for €250 (including post processing) or if they needed me more than 1 hour.... €500 - but I would point out to the person hiring me that it may be more dangerous to photograph people late in the night - alcohol can make people do strange things.

anyways thats my opinion.

ps. insurance isnt for you ...its for the drunken idiots that think they are superman and hurt themselves trying to get you to photograph them.

Quick Question: What happens if you are taking pics in the crowd and suddenly a fight breaks out (Very possible) - small bit of crowd pushing knocks you to the ground and camera/flash is broken...... who pays them - the organiser? Doubt it !!!

CabanSail

A couple of things.

Firstly you should get an agreement, in writing, as to who own the copyright of the images.

The other is the Insurance. It would worry me to do a Professional Job (ie Paid) and not be insured. You seem to think that very little could go wrong but I would not be quite as confident. You are working in a dark enviroment with lots of people who have been drinking & possibly taking a mixture of other things.

Here are a couple of Hypothetical situations;

1. You take a few photo's of some "biatches" who pose for you and pissed off and drunken boyfriend notices. He confronts you for flirting with his girlfriend & takes a swing, misses you & punches the wall breaking his hand. Next thing he is accusing you of assaulting him and wants damages as he's now off work. His girlfriend & best mate back him up as witnesses. (Similar thing happened to a friend of mine, just no camera involved)

2. You are using flash & one of the people you have just photographed then falls over & hits their head. It's probably because they are pissed but when they are recovering from having a fractured skull, wrist, dislocated shoulder (whatever) they are going to claim the cause of the accident is that they were blinded by your flash & are therefore responsible.

Borderfox

Eirebear wrote: »

really?

I struggle not to do some sort of PP on any shots i take before giving them to a client.
Maybe its habit, or maybe its a confidence thing..i dunno.

I have done jobs and the client received a disk of pictures at the end of the event, no big deal. I do a lot of shooting/printing on site so I am well used to producing in jpg with nothing needed to be done to the shots.

Eirebear

Borderfox wrote: »

I have done jobs and the client received a disk of pictures at the end of the event, no big deal. I do a lot of shooting/printing on site so I am well used to producing in jpg with nothing needed to be done to the shots.

yeah, i get where your coming from now.

My head was a little fuddled last night so i didnt quite see your point.
Cheers

superflyninja

Overblood wrote: »

Yeah that's Biddy O' Shea on the left, Maggie O' Toole on the right. Nice boobs though.

i concur with that statement.......as for charging....id be happy to get a tenner!!!

Overblood

Ok I fully understand and am aware of public liability insurance now. I wont be getting it for tomorrow night though. If I get sued I'll eat my hat on a webcam for all to see.

€200 and no insurance.....but I've gambled all my life.

Business is all about risks innit?:pac:

Animalrights you recently posted some photos of a protest in Dublin. Did you have insurance cover for that?

Borderfox

He wasnt getting paid for it, best of luck with the job

CabanSail

Here's a suggestion.

Do the shoot itself for free. Go along like any other punter on the night, pay to get in, just take your camera along. This way you are not working professionally, just taking photographs in a club with permission. You should then be covered under the PL that the club holds.

At a later date you "may" then negotiate a fee for the use of some of your images.

Now I am not an Insurance expert or a Lawyer, but I think you should be covered if you played it that way.

Covey

I would imagine payment is not the only driver here. Doing the "gig" for free is irrelevant if you're working I would think.

Take the situation you are shooting for "stock" for instance.

Of course if something happened, you may well get away with it, but only if everyone's singing from the same hymbook, DJ, Promoter, Venue etc. If the Venue get a sniff of the "real" situation you're on a sticky wicket, as they won't be keen to up their insurance premium.

CabanSail

I realise that it's not ideal & the best way would be to have the proper insurance cover. This would be a work around for a once off.

Overblood

This would be a work around for a once off.

Sure... "once off" hehehe:cool:






JUST KIDDING! jeeez:pac:






One more question. Can you get general insurance that protects you from getting sued no matter what the circumstances. Even if you're not working? Say somebody trips over my bag in a bus station and they sure me for 1million. is there an insurance that can protect me?

Paulw

Overblood wrote: »

One more question. Can you get general insurance that protects you from getting sued no matter what the circumstances. Even if you're not working? Say somebody trips over my bag in a bus station and they sure me for 1million. is there an insurance that can protect me?

That would be public liability insurance. Yes, you should be able to get that.

Many doing weddings/sport, etc are required to have public liability insurance, to cover such situations.

Overblood

So according to peoples logic here, you could get sued anywhere anytime, shouldn't everybody that spends any amount of time in public have this type of insurance? Why just when you're taking photos?

Gambler

Anybody can (and does) get sued. However someone tripping over the bag of a fellow traveler is more likely to sue the company that allowed someone to put a bag somewhere that it can be tripped over by mistake. However, if the bag they trip over is an open camera bag belonging to someone who's there taking pictures in a professional capacity they also have the option of suing the photog while they are at it.

It's just about making sure you're protected but you don't need it. Worst case scenario someone does sue and you don't have insurance then there's not much they can get out of you. If you do have a company\trading as registration then you might have to declare bankruptcy but even that isn't the end of the world..

[edit]It may seem ridiculous to you and in a lot of ways it is but that doesn't change that this is the way the world is these days. People are always giving out about health and safety gone mad (and they are right) but the fact is you either get this stuff covered or you can end up getting sued.. I personally would never sue anyone because I did something stupid but I'm not everyone :P[/edit]