Taxi Company 20% Off

Taxipete29

scorpioishere wrote: »

My colleague from work was coming from spain for his first time in dublin. He was staying at the travelodge and from the airport it costs around 12 euros.

The driver at first was not happy when my collegue said he was going to travelodge because it is so near.

Anyway while he was going to travelodge the driver was talking to him and found out he was at his first time into the country. Once he arrived at travelodge he decided to increase the fare to 28 euros. my friend was so shocked but didn't say anything as it was the company who was paying the fare. He asked for a receipt and the diver said he had not put his meter on as its broken. He then said dnt worry its the correct fare.

My collegue insists on a receipt having details from the airport to travelodge in swords, the time, the fare, his name, his signature etc etc..
The driver got angry and said ok give me only 5 euros. My colleague laughed at him and said receipt please. He was so tensed in case my colleague went to the police and said to him ok its free this time. My colleague then left the taxi.

It's quite horrible how irish drivers are so mean sometimes towards foreigners. If it was me i would have report him straight away. And they always asked for increase, they have to pay for this, they have to pay for that.. At least they should be honest in their jobs and try to learn some routes in dublin.

I know that this kind of situation is alot more than an isolated incident and while I dont think its as rampant as some may think the fact that it happens at all is an absolute disgrace.

I was in Vegas late last year and twice while in taxis the driver decided to take the scenic route. Upon challenging them about why they were trying to rip me off they reduced the fare accordingly. The ridiculous thing was, drivers in Vegas keep half of the fare and all of their tips. I tip quite well when im in a taxi and if the driver had gone the correct route he would of made more money for himself, instead all he got was the correct fare , a severe ear bashing and me threating to call the taxi police.

I also think that its a disgrace that so many drivers dont know where simple landmarks such as the Registry office are, or that they dont know the basic routes to areas of Dublin. The solution is simple, make the test harder.

antoinolachtnai

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Whilst there is no specific mention of pricing in the statute, that is the regulators position. As taxis are Public Service Vehicles rules such as restriction of trade may not apply as they would to a normal business.

I think you should insist on the regulator getting the 'position' formalized as law. If it's not written down, it just isn't law.

bk

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Whilst there is no specific mention of pricing in the statute, that is the regulators position. As taxis are Public Service Vehicles rules such as restriction of trade may not apply as they would to a normal business.

So in other words there is absolutely nothing to stop a driver advertise cheaper prices on their Taxi, you are just using the taxi regulator as an excuse for not trying this business practice.

Taxipete29

bk wrote: »

So in other words there is absolutely nothing to stop a driver advertise cheaper prices on their Taxi, you are just using the taxi regulator as an excuse for not trying this business practice.

Just because the law is vague, doesnt mean its not the law.

Terrontress

bk wrote: »

So in other words there is absolutely nothing to stop a driver advertise cheaper prices on their Taxi, you are just using the taxi regulator as an excuse for not trying this business practice.

It's a side issue, introduced to disguise the fact they don't want to give discount. Pass the blame.

Taxipete29

Terrontress wrote: »

It's a side issue, introduced to disguise the fact they don't want to give discount. Pass the blame.

That seems to be all you can say. Passing the blame. Did it ever occur to you that margins might be so tight in our industry that we simply cant afford to give a discount.

Say every taxi driver discounts fares by 20% and were able to advertise on our cars and everyone knew about it. We would have to see an increase in business of 20% to simply maintain our current financial position which sees drivers working outrageous hours to make a living.

Every idea that you comment on is based on preconcieved notions you have on a bygone era in the taxi industry. All your interested in is what you can get, but you fail to recognise that there must be a balance between what the customer gets and what the drivers get. Taxi drivers are not ALL out for what we can get. We want fair and balanced regulation for our industry which enables us to deliver a high quality service to the consumer which is not only demanded by the public but is there right. In order for us to provode such a service we must be able to earn a wage, after all we are doing all this to make money.

I am not a taxi driver because I worry that somebody somewhere may not be able to get where they are going unless I am there to bring them, I am a taxi driver to earn a wage so I can live and provide for my family, but while I am a taxi driver I will be concerned that i can provide the services demanded by the public in an effective and appropriate manner. I cant and nor can any other driver who is actually concerned with consumer satisfaction and public safety, do this without making a proper wage.

Alot of people here will say , well if you dont like it then get out and I say to them, what if I dont want to get out?? What if I really love doing what I do, why shouldnt I fight to see that the job that I love doing doesnt get reduced , swamped by people who dont know and couldnt care less where they are going and how they are going to get there and are only interested in the how much they can screw out of the customer. Look around, this is whats happening and unless the regulator takes her head out of the clouds within a few years there will be no decent drivers left and the Taxi industry will be an unsafe, uneffective and untrustworthy way to travel.If you think im exaggerating then leave your pc for five minutes and ask people who not only use taxis but rely on them to simply get by how they feel about it all, because I dont ask them, but they tell me and in no uncertain terms how they feel about the way their service has changed, how they dont use certain companies any more because of the drivers they use, How they wont pick a cab up off the street because they dont trust the driver, How do certain drivers get a licence when they dont even have a basic understanding of the routes of the city.

These are the questions that the fare paying public are asking and they are the same question that are being asked by the drivers who care about the industry. We are all on the same page on this subject but the regulator does nothing for any of us. I do not pretend that my views are the same as all drivers, but I know they are the same as the good ones.

Terrontress

Taxipete29 wrote: »

That seems to be all you can say. Passing the blame. Did it ever occur to you that margins might be so tight in our industry that we simply cant afford to give a discount.

Say every taxi driver discounts fares by 20% and were able to advertise on our cars and everyone knew about it. We would have to see an increase in business of 20% to simply maintain our current financial position which sees drivers working outrageous hours to make a living.

Every idea that you comment on is based on preconcieved notions you have on a bygone era in the taxi industry. All your interested in is what you can get, but you fail to recognise that there must be a balance between what the customer gets and what the drivers get. Taxi drivers are not ALL out for what we can get. We want fair and balanced regulation for our industry which enables us to deliver a high quality service to the consumer which is not only demanded by the public but is there right. In order for us to provode such a service we must be able to earn a wage, after all we are doing all this to make money.

I am not a taxi driver because I worry that somebody somewhere may not be able to get where they are going unless I am there to bring them, I am a taxi driver to earn a wage so I can live and provide for my family, but while I am a taxi driver I will be concerned that i can provide the services demanded by the public in an effective and appropriate manner. I cant and nor can any other driver who is actually concerned with consumer satisfaction and public safety, do this without making a proper wage.

Alot of people here will say , well if you dont like it then get out and I say to them, what if I dont want to get out?? What if I really love doing what I do, why shouldnt I fight to see that the job that I love doing doesnt get reduced , swamped by people who dont know and couldnt care less where they are going and how they are going to get there and are only interested in the how much they can screw out of the customer. Look around, this is whats happening and unless the regulator takes her head out of the clouds within a few years there will be no decent drivers left and the Taxi industry will be an unsafe, uneffective and untrustworthy way to travel.If you think im exaggerating then leave your pc for five minutes and ask people who not only use taxis but rely on them to simply get by how they feel about it all, because I dont ask them, but they tell me and in no uncertain terms how they feel about the way their service has changed, how they dont use certain companies any more because of the drivers they use, How they wont pick a cab up off the street because they dont trust the driver, How do certain drivers get a licence when they dont even have a basic understanding of the routes of the city.

These are the questions that the fare paying public are asking and they are the same question that are being asked by the drivers who care about the industry. We are all on the same page on this subject but the regulator does nothing for any of us. I do not pretend that my views are the same as all drivers, but I know they are the same as the good ones.

For a start, if you discount by 20% you would need to increase passenger journeys by 25% to get back to where you started.

Aside from that, what I am saying is basically the same as you. You think the prices are fair and do not see why you should have to discount.

If the taxi regulator removed this restrictive ban on having any indication that you are prepared to discount and did not insist you fill in a waiver form for a passenger to pay 1c less or 1c more than the metered amount would you, and the other drivers on here arguing against discounting do it?

No. You don't get return business, you are finding it difficult enough as it stands. You think the metered price is fair.

There is nothing wrong in that, as long as you are honest about it.

Waiver forms, bans on advertising discounts and whatever else are a side issue to you offering a discount in your service.

Agree?

Taxipete29

Terrontress wrote: »

For a start, if you discount by 20% you would need to increase passenger journeys by 25% to get back to where you started.

Aside from that, what I am saying is basically the same as you. You think the prices are fair and do not see why you should have to discount.

If the taxi regulator removed this restrictive ban on having any indication that you are prepared to discount and did not insist you fill in a waiver form for a passenger to pay 1c less or 1c more than the metered amount would you, and the other drivers on here arguing against discounting do it?

No. You don't get return business, you are finding it difficult enough as it stands. You think the metered price is fair.

There is nothing wrong in that, as long as you are honest about it.

Waiver forms, bans on advertising discounts and whatever else are a side issue to you offering a discount in your service.

Agree?

Just to clarify about the waiver form as there seems to be alot of confusion. The waiver form only comes into play if you are agreeing a price before the start of the journey. If at the end of a journey I decide to give you money off or state there will be a discount at the end, there is no need for a waiver.

If i was allowed to advertise discounting on my car, I might consider doing it if I felt it would help or at least do it on a trial basis and see if it had an impact on my bottom line.

I think the meter price is reflective of the need for drivers to make a living. I think its slightly harsh on short journeys, but as they make up the bulk of a days work that may have to be something that just has to be swallowed.

I know this will never happen but I will throw it out as something for cutomers to condisder. If the numbers of taxis operating were to go back to the levels of 2 years ago, then I feel you could actually reduce fares across the board by 20% and not suffer any major loss of availabilty or provision of service and drivers would make a fair wage( Not supernormal profits or anything close).

Taxi drivers, it may seem are always complaining about something and in that respect we are not that different from the rest of the population, but if you were involved in the industry and realised how little say the drivers, who after all are the industry, have in any decisions, how badly we can be treated by radio companies and have no recourse whatsoever even though we pay them and keep them in business you might realise that we have a point.

Spook_ie

Terrontress wrote: »

For a start, if you discount by 20% you would need to increase passenger journeys by 25% to get back to where you started.

Aside from that, what I am saying is basically the same as you. You think the prices are fair and do not see why you should have to discount.

If the taxi regulator removed this restrictive ban on having any indication that you are prepared to discount and did not insist you fill in a waiver form for a passenger to pay 1c less or 1c more than the metered amount would you, and the other drivers on here arguing against discounting do it?

No. You don't get return business, you are finding it difficult enough as it stands. You think the metered price is fair.

There is nothing wrong in that, as long as you are honest about it.

Waiver forms, bans on advertising discounts and whatever else are a side issue to you offering a discount in your service.

Agree?

Well I've stayed out of this argument...mostly...but here goes

Discounts....the customer and driver may negotiate a discount before engaging the taxi for a journey, this could be a percentage or a flat figure off, but the meter must be engaged and any discounts/rebates entered manualy on the receipt..

Waiver Forms....the customer and driver may agree to a fare not calculated on the meter, providing 1) It is a prebooked fare and 2) A waiver form is filled out. The waiver form would then I presume take the place of a receipt as it has the journey details etc. written onto it.

Advertising....AFAIK The space opposite the plate number on the roof sign is reserved for contact details and/or details of a recognised federation/union and would not legaly be allowed a "25% off this cab" sticker, however, would you be allowed to put a sticker or signwork on the side of the cab....probably, but I'll not guarantee that you can.

Discounts in general for repeat business...The nature of taxiing as a sole trader doesn't lend itself to an easy loyalty scheme ( discounts ) because the simple fact is that when you want your discounted cab that cab is probably nowhere near where you are, unless you have pre booked him, in which case, the driver has ( as likely ) driven past fares or stopped actively looking for fares to service your demand, as such I won't give you a discount but I do guarantee ( within reason ) that I'll be there waiting....Larger conglomerates may be able to provide a discounted service as they should have cars in the area, however, as with most companies you may/may not have to wait depending on how busy the company is and if there are any cars in the locale, as I said before 20% off sounds good, as long as you don't have an urgent appointment and the taxi is late... Someone mentioned this earlier about companies migrating from cheaper taxi services to more reliable services, you pays your money and makes your choice...

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

Anybody actualy used them yet?

I'll repeat the question as it appears that no one noticed it, or is it just that no one has used them?

Spook_ie

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Maybe the drivers need to move towards a co-operative structure? I'm old enough to remember when Co-op Taxis (phone 777777) were the biggest taxi firm in the city, owned and managed by drivers.

They're still around on 6 777 777, but I don't honestly know if they are or aren't affiliated with any of the other cab companies

Taxipete29

Spook_ie wrote: »

They're still around on 6 777 777, but I don't honestly know if they are or aren't affiliated with any of the other cab companies

They are affiliated with National Radio Cabs

antoinolachtnai

The fundamental problem with the taxi industry, surely, is that there are too many taxis on the road at particular times of the day, no? No amount of messing with the prices is going to sort out that problem.

What really needs to happen is that supply has to be managed on a day-to-day basis. Capping the number of cabs will not do that.

If the industry is not prepared to manage the supply (so far it hasn't) then the regulator should do it.

Taxipete29

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The fundamental problem with the taxi industry, surely, is that there are too many taxis on the road at particular times of the day, no? No amount of messing with the prices is going to sort out that problem.

What really needs to happen is that supply has to be managed on a day-to-day basis. Capping the number of cabs will not do that.

If the industry is not prepared to manage the supply (so far it hasn't) then the regulator should do it.

The fundamental problem is we have too many taxis period. There is no time day or night when there is an undersupply of taxis so I dont see how trying to manage what times they are working would do anything added to that taxi drivers are self-employed and as such choose their own working hours.

the boss of me

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The fundamental problem with the taxi industry, surely, is that there are too many taxis on the road at particular times of the day, no? No amount of messing with the prices is going to sort out that problem.

What really needs to happen is that supply has to be managed on a day-to-day basis. Capping the number of cabs will not do that.

If the industry is not prepared to manage the supply (so far it hasn't) then the regulator should do it.

TR won't do that.. she will just repeat her mantra "it's not within my remit". This is the line she uses to the media to the unions and to the Oireachtas.
She is the ministers whipping boy, just once I would like to hear her say " it is not within my remit to limit the number of taxis. However I believe it is the right course of action and I have recommended that the minister place a moratorium on the issuing of taxi plates immediately."
This would put the ball back in Dopey Dempseys' court, but will Kathleen Doyle rock the boat ? No way.. this incopetent regulater gets €130,000 pa.
In the private sector she would be out on her ear. So she will continue to do what Dempsey wants and he is the worst sort of politician ie. vain, stupid and stubborn.

antoinolachtnai

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The fundamental problem is we have too many taxis period. There is no time day or night when there is an undersupply of taxis so I dont see how trying to manage what times they are working would do anything added to that taxi drivers are self-employed and as such choose their own working hours.

Have you any statistics to back that up? I know that there are times when there is an undersupply of taxis. For example, on a weekday morning at the rank in Ranelagh, it is certainly not unknown for there to be a ten or twenty-minute wait.

If drivers could book hours ahead and know that there would only be a proportionate number of taxis on the road at that time, surely it would make sense?

Taxipete29

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Have you any statistics to back that up? I know that there are times when there is an undersupply of taxis. For example, on a weekday morning at the rank in Ranelagh, it is certainly not unknown for there to be a ten or twenty-minute wait.

If drivers could book hours ahead and know that there would only be a proportionate number of taxis on the road at that time, surely it would make sense?

I dont need stats to back up what I can see everyday when I go to work and you cant say there is an undersupply based on experience at one very small rank. Walk around the corner and I guarantee you will get one quicker.

Do you realise there is roughly 15, 000 taxis in Dublin, it would be logistical nightmare to even contemplate trying this, to say nothing of the fact its totally unnecessary.

antoinolachtnai

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I dont need stats to back up what I can see everyday when I go to work and you cant say there is an undersupply based on experience at one very small rank. Walk around the corner and I guarantee you will get one quicker.

Do you realise there is roughly 15, 000 taxis in Dublin, it would be logistical nightmare to even contemplate trying this, to say nothing of the fact its totally unnecessary.

The rank is beside the corner. If there was oversupply and there were drivers going by they would have come around and picked up.

You said there was always oversupply. I gave an example of a time when there wasn't oversupply.

There was also a queue at the taxi rank on St Stephen's Green on at least one occasion over Christmas.

Putting a cap on taxi numbers at this stage isn't going to make any difference to the fact that there is oversupply, if there is indeed oversupply.

Many other cities have systems where the number of taxis on the road is adjusted to meet the demand. Singapore comes to mind, I'm sure there are others. It's logistically challenging, but it's not impossible.

baloonatic

In my view, under no circumstances should taxis be allowed to advertise cheaper fares on their vehicles. It would inevitable result in bedlam, undercutting and a general reduction in the service level. It would make it easier for unlicensed operators to take customers from legitimate operators by offering dramatically reduced fares. Operators will be forced to work longer hours, customers will encounter aggressive selling, and it would generate an extremely negative atmosphere.

As regards the 20% off promo, it's nothing more than a well marketed sales pitch. There could be a case for false advertising there, but I don't know. In a market which is nearing saturation the company is only trying to make the best of an undesirable situation.

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SerialComplaint

Spook_ie wrote: »

They're still around on 6 777 777, but I don't honestly know if they are or aren't affiliated with any of the other cab companies

Taxipete29 wrote: »

They are affiliated with National Radio Cabs

But it is no longer a co-op. If drivers want to retain control over the profits arising from taking calls, they need to form a co-op.

Taxipete29

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The rank is beside the corner. If there was oversupply and there were drivers going by they would have come around and picked up.

You said there was always oversupply. I gave an example of a time when there wasn't oversupply.

There was also a queue at the taxi rank on St Stephen's Green on at least one occasion over Christmas.

Putting a cap on taxi numbers at this stage isn't going to make any difference to the fact that there is oversupply, if there is indeed oversupply.

Many other cities have systems where the number of taxis on the road is adjusted to meet the demand. Singapore comes to mind, I'm sure there are others. It's logistically challenging, but it's not impossible.

Just to correct you, you gave an example of a specific place in Dublin, this does not mean an undersupply as I could show you ranks all over Dublin that are full every morning of the week.

In the lead up to Christmas alot of drivers work extra hours as its usually busy and then they take some time off during Christmas to spend time with their families. This may lead to minor queues at certain peak times such as closing time, but if you throw everyone out of every pub and club in the city at the same time what do you expect.

Other cities may have different systems that work for them due to the way the industry is set up but trust me as someone who knows the industry and knows what he is talking about, its unworkable in Dublin.

Even people who feel that there should be no cap put on the licences realise there is an over supply and for you to argue otherwise is ridiculous when you have 15000 taxis servicing a population of around 1.2million.

antoinolachtnai

You are saying there is always oversupply and I am giving you instances where there is undersupply.

I am not saying that there is not oversupply generally. I am just saying that from the consumer's perspective there is sometimes undersupply.

The actual problem is that the supply isn't managed.

To deal with this problem, we should have a bit of bottle and restructure the industry if that's what needs to be done.

Capping the number of taxis at this stage of the game isn't going to make any difference whatsoever. If the existing taxi plates were cosied and traded the way taxis were cosied and traded in the old days, supply could keep on growing for quite a bit, even if there wasn't a single extra plate. The capacity could probably grow another thirty percent without any sweat .

(The only difference would be that the money would have to be spread amongst more people and we'd be back to that business with the mortgages and the widows and the investors and all the rest of it.)

2qk4u

The problem with the supply and demand is that the driver might spend 8/9 hours of a 12 hour shift doing feic all and everyone seems to want a taxi at the same time. If there was regular demand there would be a regular service.

L1011

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'll repeat the question as it appears that no one noticed it, or is it just that no one has used them?

The lispy one in the advertisements is enough to put me off using them for life.

Taxipete29

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are saying there is always oversupply and I am giving you instances where there is undersupply.

I am not saying that there is not oversupply generally. I am just saying that from the consumer's perspective there is sometimes undersupply.

The actual problem is that the supply isn't managed.
There is not one person who knows anything about the Taxi industry here that thinks this is the problem. I am sorry your just plain wrong
To deal with this problem, we should have a bit of bottle and restructure the industry if that's what needs to be done.
I do believe the industry needs to be restructured but not for the reason you have cited

Capping the number of taxis at this stage of the game isn't going to make any difference whatsoever. If the existing taxi plates were cosied and traded the way taxis were cosied and traded in the old days, supply could keep on growing for quite a bit, even if there wasn't a single extra plate. The capacity could probably grow another thirty percent without any sweat .

(The only difference would be that the money would have to be spread amongst more people and we'd be back to that business with the mortgages and the widows and the investors and all the rest of it.)

Capping plates on its own may not work, but it will give the industry a little bit of breathing room to settle down and I really dispute your figure of 30%??? Did you just make that up??????

Spook_ie

I think what a lot of people need to realise on here, considering there is another protest scheduled for Tues 17th 11.00, is we are calling for a halt on plates until a full ranging review of what the taxi trade needs, what the public needs and what the cities need is carried out, wether that is for a complete rebuild of the system from the ground up is for another days discussion.

Dempsey says that he favours qualitive controls rather than number contols, would have been a passable solution until the regulator decided that if you pass your psv test and buy a plate from an existing holder you are not classed as a new license holder and as such you needn't bother about the qualitive controls until 2012, as they are only going to apply to new plates over 45000 issued from Jan 1st....

It's this kind of crap that as a businessman, yes I do run a business, we need to be rid of.........

mikemac

Spook_ie wrote: »

is we are calling for a halt on plates until a full ranging review of what the taxi trade needs,

But where is the cut-off? You're saying I can buy a plate this week and then join you on a protest calling for a cap?

Hardly seems right.
And I'm sure there were drivers who only started in the last few months on some of the protests so far.
Taking advantage of the cheap (cheaper after deregulation) plates but then demanding they stop issueing them.
Can you have it both ways?

Spook_ie

mikemac wrote: »

But where is the cut-off? You're saying I can buy a plate this week and then join you on a protest calling for a cap?

Hardly seems right.
And I'm sure there were drivers who only started in the last few months on some of the protests so far.
Taking advantage of the cheap (cheaper after deregulation) plates but then demanding they stop issueing them.
Can you have it both ways?

There will always be a cut off date that would suit some people more than others, just the way of life, but if people want a 1st class service then you have to start somewhere. It's not unlike the oft repeated requests for an end to double jobbing in the industry, where people work in a 9-5 ( or whatever ) PAYE job and then throw the roof sign on to work some weekends to pay for their holidays or whatever, I would see no difference to them losing their investment if they were outlawed as the original plate holders losing thier investment when plates were deregegulated, you ain't going to please all the people....

antoinolachtnai

taxipete:

30 percent is based on taxi plates currently being used an average of 45 hours a week. This is open to debate, but I think if you take the part-time plates into account, the average is going to be something between 30 and 60 hours per week.

In 2003, It was considered by the taxi drivers' organizaitons that there were about 3000 part-timers in the industry, when there were 20,000 plates. (http://www.gov.ie/committees-29/c-publicenterprise/20030612-J/Page1.htm). There are conservatively 4500 at this stage. Even if only these were to be fully utilized (say at triple what they are now) it would result in the equivalent of thousands of extra taxis.

For each taxi to get an additional 15 hours per week seems easy. There are many ways this could happen. A taxi driver could have a cosy for two or three days a week. Part-time drivers could sell their plates to people who have been made redundant from work, effectively turning part-time plates into full-time.

Re managing supply, you are just gainsaying me.

Spook_ie:

So what does the taxi industry need? Why do we have to stop everything in order to find that out? Do we need consultants? Ten year licensing? Larger players? Higher fares? Lower fares? Newer cars?

lods

It should be the same as any industry, supply & demand. It'll find its own level. Sickens me when i here taxi drivers saying on the news , that their going to bring the city to a standstill. They shouldn't be above the law.

Spook_ie

lods wrote: »

It should be the same as any industry, supply & demand. It'll find its own level. Sickens me when i here taxi drivers saying on the news , that their going to bring the city to a standstill. They shouldn't be above the law.

Ah thats so nice, you'd like taxidrivers to be denied their democratic right to demonstrate, I suppose you objected in the same manner when the OAPs, Students etc. marched......perhaps if you don't believe in democracy you would be better off emigrating to somewhere like Zimbabwe/Iran/China/North Korea or whichever country you feel would better serve your ideals....

maggy_thatcher

Spook_ie wrote: »

Ah thats so nice, you'd like taxidrivers to be denied their democratic right to demonstrate, I suppose you objected in the same manner when the OAPs, Students etc. marched......perhaps if you don't believe in democracy you would be better off emigrating to somewhere like Zimbabwe/Iran/China/North Korea or whichever country you feel would better serve your ideals....

There's a difference between demonstrating and threatening to "shut down the city". Demonstrating is normally an organized march from place A to place B under a Garda escort. I've no problems with you doing that (I don't agree with your reasons for demonstrating, but I believe in the right for you to do it). Taking your cars and gridlocking the city on the other hand does nothing other than annoy everybody who have nothing to do with your "struggle".

Taxipete29

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

taxipete:

30 percent is based on taxi plates currently being used an average of 45 hours a week. This is open to debate, but I think if you take the part-time plates into account, the average is going to be something between 30 and 60 hours per week.

In 2003, It was considered by the taxi drivers' organizaitons that there were about 3000 part-timers in the industry, when there were 20,000 plates. (http://www.gov.ie/committees-29/c-publicenterprise/20030612-J/Page1.htm). There are conservatively 4500 at this stage. Even if only these were to be fully utilized (say at triple what they are now) it would result in the equivalent of thousands of extra taxis.

For each taxi to get an additional 15 hours per week seems easy. There are many ways this could happen. A taxi driver could have a cosy for two or three days a week. Part-time drivers could sell their plates to people who have been made redundant from work, effectively turning part-time plates into full-time.

Re managing supply, you are just gainsaying me.

For starters cosying only happens for the most part with immigrant drivers and alot of the time is done illegally. Better enforcement would solve this problem.

Most part-time drivers use their family car as a taxi so how can they let someone use it to cosy in if they need to get to their own job????

Seen as how you seem to think you know what your talking about, lay out for me what you would do to sort out the industry

Taxipete29

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

There's a difference between demonstrating and threatening to "shut down the city". Demonstrating is normally an organized march from place A to place B under a Garda escort. I've no problems with you doing that (I don't agree with your reasons for demonstrating, but I believe in the right for you to do it). Taking your cars and gridlocking the city on the other hand does nothing other than annoy everybody who have nothing to do with your "struggle".

Did I miss this gridlock that has happened over the past few protests?????
From what I can see there was little interference with people getting to work as the protests were deliberatly scheduled for 11 so not to interfer with people getting to work. You should check your facts before you post.

maggy_thatcher

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Did I miss this gridlock that has happened over the past few protests?????
From what I can see there was little interference with people getting to work as the protests were deliberatly scheduled for 11 so not to interfer with people getting to work. You should check your facts before you post.

I mean next Wednesday's protest. As in the one mentioned at http://www.dublins98.ie/news/cabbies_announce_plans_for_massive_demo.php

paulm17781

Dublin98.ie wrote:

Spokesperson for the taxis for change group, Frank Byrne, told 98 news, they've no other option.

Curse the people who forced them into this job and now won't let them leave. :rolleyes:

lods

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

There's a difference between demonstrating and threatening to "shut down the city". Demonstrating is normally an organized march from place A to place B under a Garda escort. I've no problems with you doing that (I don't agree with your reasons for demonstrating, but I believe in the right for you to do it). Taking your cars and gridlocking the city on the other hand does nothing other than annoy everybody who have nothing to do with your "struggle".

Agree completely.I'm someone who works in the city centre and depends on shoppers for my my livelyhood. Wheres my democratic right to make a living. Can i got and park my car accroos a taxi rank & block it, as my protest against my employer? I would defend anyones right to a democratic Protest, but not acting like spolit children. So we can one have X amount of supermarkets , X amout of clothes shops. What world are taxi drivers living in, they always want to dictate the terms. How many of those protesting only got a licence because of the deregulation? Have a democratic march by all means. Block the roads & be arrested the same as any of us would be.

Spook_ie

lods wrote: »

Agree completely.I'm someone who works in the city centre and depends on shoppers for my my livelyhood. Wheres my democratic right to make a living. Can i got and park my car accroos a taxi rank & block it, as my protest against my employer? I would defend anyones right to a democratic Protest, but not acting like spolit children. So we can one have X amount of supermarkets , X amout of clothes shops. What world are taxi drivers living in, they always want to dictate the terms. How many of those protesting only got a licence because of the deregulation? Have a democratic march by all means. Block the roads & be arrested the same as any of us would be.

Yes, you can only have X amount of supermarkets, fast food joints, restaurants ( and probably clothes shops ) it's called planning applications, thats why Lidl aren't being allowed to open up in the old Habitat shop, as it's detrimental to the planning for the area, but I have no doubt that a few of the supermarkets would have lodged their objections as well... As to blocking the roads, I don't believe there is any intention of parking cars across road junctions or shop doorways, just a noisy drive around...for all I know it may well be we'll stay in town to support the Garda march later on in the day

Spook_ie

paulm17781 wrote: »

Curse the people who forced them into this job and now won't let them leave. :rolleyes:

Actualy you would be surprised at how difficult it is to leave the industry, if you've been in it for more than a year, you're not entitled to the dole or anything other than a means tested allowance ( And you have to find a buyer for your plate/taxi as you would still be deemed to have a source of income), no access to FAS retraining ( unless you pay for yourself ) and various other niceties that you can get when you leave most other industries...

paulm17781

Spook_ie wrote: »

just a noisy drive around...

How will this garner public support?

Is that even the reason this is being done or is it to show that taxidrivers can cause problems on the streets?

Frank007

I don't know why the taxi men are even bothering to protest. In general the public have a bit of a distain for taxi drivers and clogging up the streets to highlight their so called struggle will only increase this distain. they would be best served by just getting on with the work.

I dont agree with them that there needs to be a cap on the number of taxi plates. They claim that there is too many of them competing for a set number of fares, but if you look at job vacancies at the moment there is increased competition for each one of them (because more people are actively seeking work), thats just the reality. What do they want? do they want the pick of their fares?

I do however agree that the regulator should not just impose a fare increase if the majority of drivers dont want it.

hardCopy

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'll repeat the question as it appears that no one noticed it, or is it just that no one has used them?

I used them last Friday night. Showed up on time, sound driver. Discount applied as advertised.

lods

Spook_ie wrote: »

Yes, you can only have X amount of supermarkets, fast food joints, restaurants ( and probably clothes shops ) it's called planning applications, thats why Lidl aren't being allowed to open up in the old Habitat shop, as it's detrimental to the planning for the area, but I have no doubt that a few of the supermarkets would have lodged their objections as well... As to blocking the roads, I don't believe there is any intention of parking cars across road junctions or shop doorways, just a noisy drive around...for all I know it may well be we'll stay in town to support the Garda march later on in the day

Lidl haven't applied for planning for the habitat store , so haven't been refused. While shops might have to go for planning for a change of use, they don't need it to vhange from one form of retail to another. Market forces decided how many of a type of retail there is. I'm going on past protests where taximen got out of their cars on O'Connell Street & refused to move them.

Taxipete29

Personally I would be out of the industry in the morning if I could find a job, but at the moment I cant so Im stuck and while Im here im going to fight for my right to earn a decent wage for a good, honest service that I provide. Its not that I dont like the business because I do, but you cant make money without working 80 hours/ 7 days a week.

You cannot completly de-regulate an industry the way it has been and expect it to sort itself out. If the Taxi industry had as much power as the Vintners in this country I guarantee there would be a cap on the licences already.

For all those people who think there shouldnt be a cap and the market should sort itself out answer me this

Why are there only a certain number of mobile phone operator licences???

Why cant anyone just start a radio station and start broadcasting???

Why cant anyone just open a pub wherever they want?????

Why cant anyone just start a bus route wherever they want?????

Taxipete29

paulm17781 wrote: »

How will this garner public support?

Is that even the reason this is being done or is it to show that taxidrivers can cause problems on the streets?

You obviously have some major gripe with taxi drivers as all I see you do is make ridiculous statements like this one and go around thanking people for making arguements you are completly incapable of making yourself. Others, while I may disagree with them at least have the ability to put forth an opinion, you just want to jump on everyone elses bandwagon.

Would love to know how a taxi driver ****ed you over, bet its a great story

antoinolachtnai

Taxipete29 wrote: »

For starters cosying only happens for the most part with immigrant drivers and alot of the time is done illegally. Better enforcement would solve this problem.

Most part-time drivers use their family car as a taxi so how can they let someone use it to cosy in if they need to get to their own job????

Seen as how you seem to think you know what your talking about, lay out for me what you would do to sort out the industry

There is nothing wrong or illegal about cosying. Cosying was the norm in Dublin for many years.

If the plates became valuable again (as they would if there were a cap) then the cost of the car becomes less significant compared to the cost of the plate. The part time drivers will either sell the plate to someone with capital, or they will get a separate car for it themselves.

Personally, I think that the industry needs professional management. Regulation, at least as we have it, is not the same as management.

One way I could see to do this would put in the layer of management would be by establishing between four and seven clearly identifiable taxi firms. Each firm would set its own prices (which would bind the entire firm). There would be a regular tier of taxi and a 'premium' tier.

The job of the regulator would be to press the firms to increase the quality and value of what is offered and to coordinate where appropriate (for example, to make sure there weren't 500 taxis standing in the city centre at the same time as flights were landing unmet at the airport). The job of the firms would be to implement the nuts and bolts of improving the standard.

I haven't done the full analysis, but that's what I see needs to be done to have a really excellent taxi service at a decent price.

What would you do?

Spook_ie

lods wrote: »

Lidl haven't applied for planning for the habitat store , so haven't been refused. While shops might have to go for planning for a change of use, they don't need it to vhange from one form of retail to another. Market forces decided how many of a type of retail there is. I'm going on past protests where taximen got out of their cars on O'Connell Street & refused to move them.

True they didn't proceed with the deal, as Habitats receivers wanted €2million for the lease, but I seem to recall an article that people were objecting to it anyway as it was out of character for the area ( be darned if I can find it though ), if taximen park there cars in O'Connell St ( I think it happened once ) then it would be up to the Gardai to sort it out, I myself am not in favour of parking my car in the middle of anywhere, but I ( and many others ) are up for a noisy drive through, or should that be around ( albeit a slow one! )


edit not what i was originaly searching for but you get the idea....
http://www.dublincity.ie/SiteCollectionDocuments/grafton_street_planning_control_scheme.pdf

To reinvigorate Grafton Street as the South City’s most dynamic retail experience underpinned by
a wide range of mainstream, independent and specialist retail and service outlets that attract both
Dubliners and visitors to shop, sit and stroll, whilst re-establishing the area’s rich historic charm
and urban character.

The Scheme of Special Planning Control was passed by resolution of Dublin City Council on 2nd
April 2007 and shall remain in operation for six years. The City Council will monitor and review
the impact of the Scheme over this six year period and may by resolution amend or revoke the
Scheme as necessary

and

Special Note:
The Planning Authority have the power to not only conserve the character of certain areas
but also in urban areas of special importance to enhance the character; that is to restore it
and to require owners and occupiers to conform to a Planning Scheme. The Planning
Authority may serve a notice on each person who is the owner or occupier of land of
measures required to be undertaken for -
a) the restoration, demolition, removal, alteration, replacement, maintenance, repair
or cleaning of any structure, or
b) the discontinuance of any use or the continuance of any use subject to conditions

Terrontress

Taxi drivers should be aware that few people are doing 40hour weeks at present. I'm usually at my desk for 8 am, rarely leave before 6 and it takes around an hour each way to get there. I eat my lunch at my desk while working.

Taxi driving has lots of benefits. Your "working day" most likely starts in your mind as you reverse out of your driveway. You make your own hours. There is a chance of making money right till you get back to your front door. You are in your own environment.

Try knocking 5 hours off your working day for commute, unpaid overtime and lunch at desk and how many hours is the average taxi driver doing?

HydeRoad

With RESPECT to you, Terrontress, what the hell do you know about the taxi industry??? I am working for HALF the MINIMUM WAGE, have seen my earnings drop to a QUARTER of what they were four years ago when I entered the industry, and stand to lose my home and everything I have worked hard for for the last ten years.

As soon as I go out to work now, I spend hours just earning back the cost of the bloody car I am trying to run, before I ever pay a sniff of a mortgage payment or any of the other dozen bills I need to SURVIVE, never mind have a life. I borrowed THOUSANDS four years ago to get into an industry I hoped would at least pay me a reasonable mortgage, nothing else. I didn't get it for free, I hung myself out the window for it, in the good faith that it would keep me for the rest of my life. I never looked for a fancy lifestyle. Just a small, very basic home. I still owe those thousands, and now have no hope of repaying them.

I'd sell my soul to have what you have right now, Terrontress. So would thousands of others in these present circumstances. To answer your statement, yes, I am AWARE of the hours other people have to work. Yes, I am AWARE that we are in straitened times. Yes, I am AWARE that people like you have to give up their lunchbreaks. You at least have a full day's work. Taxi drivers don't, no matter how many hours they sit on the ranks. Sitting on a rank for two hours in a line of thirty cars at the Heuston rank won't even pay for the sandwich you choke down your neck at your desk. It CERTAINLY won't pay a mortgage.

I'd LOVE to get out of the taxi industry. I can't. There are no other jobs. I am backed into a corner where I owe thousands, have no income, qualify for no aid from any quarter, and cannot even afford to maintain the car I rely on for my business. If you had to pay for the desk you sit at and the pc you work at, and weren't even earning enough to cover that, you'd have real cause for gripe too. It is disgusting to come on here and read blasé comments from people sitting in leather armchairs telling other people in less fortunate circumstances to FOAD.

lods

HydeRoad wrote: »

With RESPECT to you, Terrontress, what the hell do you know about the taxi industry??? I am working for HALF the MINIMUM WAGE, have seen my earnings drop to a QUARTER of what they were four years ago when I entered the industry, and stand to lose my home and everything I have worked hard for for the last ten years.

As soon as I go out to work now, I spend hours just earning back the cost of the bloody car I am trying to run, before I ever pay a sniff of a mortgage payment or any of the other dozen bills I need to SURVIVE, never mind have a life. I borrowed THOUSANDS four years ago to get into an industry I hoped would at least pay me a reasonable mortgage, nothing else. I didn't get it for free, I hung myself out the window for it, in the good faith that it would keep me for the rest of my life. I never looked for a fancy lifestyle. Just a small, very basic home. I still owe those thousands, and now have no hope of repaying them.

I'd sell my soul to have what you have right now, Terrontress. So would thousands of others in these present circumstances. To answer your statement, yes, I am AWARE of the hours other people have to work. Yes, I am AWARE that we are in straitened times. Yes, I am AWARE that people like you have to give up their lunchbreaks. You at least have a full day's work. Taxi drivers don't, no matter how many hours they sit on the ranks. Sitting on a rank for two hours in a line of thirty cars at the Heuston rank won't even pay for the sandwich you choke down your neck at your desk. It CERTAINLY won't pay a mortgage.

I'd LOVE to get out of the taxi industry. I can't. There are no other jobs. I am backed into a corner where I owe thousands, have no income, qualify for no aid from any quarter, and cannot even afford to maintain the car I rely on for my business. If you had to pay for the desk you sit at and the pc you work at, and weren't even earning enough to cover that, you'd have real cause for gripe too. It is disgusting to come on here and read blasé comments from people sitting in leather armchairs telling other people in less fortunate circumstances to FOAD.

I think a lot of people including myself have a lot of sympathy for anyone struggling in these times to make a living. My point has been that arrogant actions & aggressive actions only alienate the general public, who are your customers. I think that’s why there was little sympathy for taxi deregulation at the time because of the actions of some taxi men. In fairness a lot of people lost a lot of money through deregulation. A lot of those in the industry now got in very cheap.