College Fees

Mario007 · 14-02-2009 12:42am

Delta Kilo wrote: »

That seven billion was given to the banks so that they could give loans to small businesses and earn back interest on them so as to get the banks and subsequently the economy going again. It was not intended to be given away at 0% interest to students who wouldn't be paying it back for 4/5 years. Thats the last thing the banks need at the minute.

well thats why the government should guarantee the loans, i mean its not gonna change anything at the moment but a few years down the road it will certainly pick up. ya gotta learn from this crisis

Fad · 14-02-2009 12:45am

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I can guarantee you that almost all of the teachers in the institute are there because they could not get a post in a state school, probably due to a lack of vacancies rather than their abilities though, I will admit. They would much prefer the comfort and security of being employed by the government rather than being under pressure from a boss to achieve high results. Don't forget that all these Grind Schools want is profit, not the idea that they are creating the future doctors in society. They only want you to do well so they can put your photo in the ad for next years prospective students, not so that you can do what you want. The teachers there are taught how to teach in the same place that a teacher in a state school has. In fact a previous poster said that a lot of Grind School teachers are unqualified.

Most teachers in grind schools (At least THE grind school the IOE) have taught in mainstream schools before hand, and then once they have a proven record of exam results, they get hired. I really would strongly contest the validity of this statement that a lot of them are unqualified, that i just bs.

Also, whats the problem with them making profit, its good for the economy. If you go to a grind school full time, thats also a good thing as you're not using up government funding, I dont think you could be classed as in anyway a burden on the state...............

This constant point that just learning of answers/sample essays is a really bad thing is just ridiculous too! The leaving cert is a memory exercise, there is next to no scope for creative flair, its a test on your ability to learn off stuff, simple. Sure there's things put in to catch you out in French or something so you'll write completely off the topic, but I'm you're shown how to get around that.

Fad · 14-02-2009 12:46am

Delta Kilo wrote: »

That seven billion was given to the banks so that they could give loans to small businesses and earn back interest on them so as to get the banks and subsequently the economy going again. It was not intended to be given away at 0% interest to students who wouldn't be paying it back for 4/5 years. Thats the last thing the banks need at the minute.

For once you're right...........

-Els- · 14-02-2009 12:49am

Leaving the serious moral issues with th re-introduction of fees....
What the government dont seem to get is that in the long term re-introducing college fees is going to damage the economy. It may be a short-term solution but the fact is that one of the main reasons for the Celtic Tiger was that ireland had a young, very well-educated workforce. This is what attracted compaies like Dell and Wyeth etc.. (among other things obviously!)
If college fees are re-intorduced no doubt there will be a drop in people going onto 3rd level, particularly in Institutes of technology. It will do nothing to help Irelands economy to have a drop in the educated workforce.

Also just to point out that its all very well for people who's parents can afford the fees comfortably to say "we all have to make sacrifices etc..." (not anyone on here, just the media in general) But if you are in the position where you are in serious financial trouble, if your a public service worker and the government has just taken €150 odd euro off you every fortnight and are then faced with paying 5000 a year in fees then you wouldnt be so content to act the martyr...

Also think its hilarious- has anyone ever noticed that whatever the topic on here- its almost guaranteed to turn into a debate about Grind Schools/Private Education.....

Fad · 14-02-2009 12:55am

-Els- wrote: »

Also think its hilarious- has anyone ever noticed that whatever the topic on here- its almost guaranteed to turn into a debate about Grind Schools/Private Education.....

Nah just Grind Schools tbh, if people/one person in particular keep bringing it up, im gonna keep countering it.

Delta Kilo · 14-02-2009 1:33am

Fad wrote: »

Most teachers in grind schools (At least THE grind school the IOE) have taught in mainstream schools before hand, and then once they have a proven record of exam results, they get hired. I really would strongly contest the validity of this statement that a lot of them are unqualified, that i just bs.

I can't honestly see why a teacher would rather teach in a grind school instead of a mainstream school. They are losing there job security, their state pension, loads of pressure being put on them to achieve results, access to trade unions... nearly all of the perks of being a teacher. There must be a SERIOUS pay difference.

We had a teacher teaching drawing 2 years ago. He is now teaching DCG/drawing in Yeats in Galway. ( I hope someone here goes to yeats and can back me up on this). He was MAD!!! He done nothing with us. He brought in a television to watch the horse racing and spent his time watching that, roaring at the telly and ringing his friend who was putting bets on for him. He was always late and hungover. He was always admiring and talking about the female teachers in the school. He made us do a stupid project and disappeared with them. He went to Australia for a while. Now he is teaching in Yeats! He does NOT have a proven record of exam results.

Also, whats the problem with them making profit, its good for the economy. If you go to a grind school full time, thats also a good thing as you're not using up government funding, I dont think you could be classed as in anyway a burden on the state.

Its just morally wrong that they are making a profit off of young LC students and giving them a false sense of hope. "You are not using up government funding" - that is just sensationalistic. Id say the difference in cost is VERY marginal to the government. Its not as if public schools are full to capacity- in fact in the long-run, it would be more cost efficient to have the quota of students in each classroom i.e. 25 than having classrooms with empty seats. Kinda like why airlines wont let a plane go if there isn't a certain number of seats filled. If this is your view then you are automatically suggesting that you are in favour of the fees because, like grind schools;

They would be good for the economy

They (colleges) wouldn't be using up government funding and

They wouldn't be a burden on the state or thus, the taxpayer.
The real argument here is why are people willing to pay the fees for these schools yet unwilling to pay the college fees because they believe that 3rd level education is a right, not a privilege. 2nd level is a right yet they are willing to pay so that they can be privileged. They should be made pay the fees!

How about this one:
Anyone who does there LC at a grind school must pay college fees. Discuss.
(Q similar to a LC economics q-->open to debate

)

Fad · 14-02-2009 2:01am

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I can't honestly see why a teacher would rather teach in a grind school instead of a mainstream school. They are losing there job security, their state pension, loads of pressure being put on them to achieve results, access to trade unions... nearly all of the perks of being a teacher. There must be a SERIOUS pay difference.

We had a teacher teaching drawing 2 years ago. He is now teaching DCG/drawing in Yeats in Galway. ( I hope someone here goes to yeats and can back me up on this). He was MAD!!! He done nothing with us. He brought in a television to watch the horse racing and spent his time watching that, roaring at the telly and ringing his friend who was putting bets on for him. He was always late and hungover. He was always admiring and talking about the female teachers in the school. He made us do a stupid project and disappeared with them. He went to Australia for a while. Now he is teaching in Yeats! He does NOT have a proven record of exam results.

Its just morally wrong that they are making a profit off of young LC students and giving them a false sense of hope. "You are not using up government funding" - that is just sensationalistic. Id say the difference in cost is VERY marginal to the government. Its not as if public schools are full to capacity- in fact in the long-run, it would be more cost efficient to have the quota of students in each classroom i.e. 25 than having classrooms with empty seats. Kinda like why airlines wont let a plane go if there isn't a certain number of seats filled. If this is your view then you are automatically suggesting that you are in favour of the fees because, like grind schools;
They would be good for the economy
They (colleges) wouldn't be using up government funding
and
They wouldn't be a burden on the state or thus, the taxpayer.

The real argument here is why are people willing to pay the fees for these schools yet unwilling to pay the college fees because they believe that 3rd level education is a right, not a privilege. 2nd level is a right yet they are willing to pay so that they can be privileged. They should be made pay the fees!

There is a big pay difference, a serious pay difference!

Maybe your class were just lazy and uncooperative?

Not using government funding is to kinda double counter the argument against standard non fee paying schools AND grind schools, in fairness it costs the government nothing, so whats wrong with it. According to you its morally wrong, that bs, its business, it wouldnt be profitable if people are getting results, youre pointing out how the saving would be marginal, while all this time you've been using fringe examples of your "Friend" who's doing vetinary now? How many of these people drop put actually because they cant cope, figures!

Private schooling is good for the economy yes, but people dont get into debt to fund 2nd level (or at least they very rarely do), so people who cant afford it, make do with what they can get. Making do in the 3rd level sense would be non participation

. But still private schools save the government money, if anything they should be more entitled to get free education as the government makes a significantly lower contribution to these peoples education[may not be true

].

glaston · 14-02-2009 2:16am

How about a college loan? (sorry if this has been mentioned before but I didnt get to read all the entries so far)
Basically have a system like the UK where you get a loan from the government and only pay it back when you start earning x amount, that way the people who benefit from college are the ones that pay for it.

SligoBrewer · 14-02-2009 2:32am

Fad wrote: »

Also, whats the problem with them making profit, its good for the economy. If you go to a grind school full time, thats also a good thing as you're not using up government funding, I dont think you could be classed as in anyway a burden on the state...............

Epic fail right there. Dept of Education (scandalously imo) pay the wages of Grind/Privite school teachers.

SligoBrewer · 14-02-2009 2:34am

Fad wrote: »

But still private schools save the government money, if anything they should be more entitled to get free education as the government makes a significantly lower contribution to these peoples education[may not be true

Are you for real?

Delta Kilo · 14-02-2009 2:58am

Fad wrote: »

There is a big pay difference, a serious pay difference!

Maybe your class were just lazy and uncooperative?

Not using government funding is to kinda double counter the argument against standard non fee paying schools AND grind schools, in fairness it costs the government nothing, so whats wrong with it. According to you its morally wrong, that bs, its business, it wouldnt be profitable if people are getting results, youre pointing out how the saving would be marginal, while all this time you've been using fringe examples of your "Friend" who's doing vetinary now? How many of these people drop put actually because they cant cope, figures!

Private schooling is good for the economy yes, but people dont get into debt to fund 2nd level (or at least they very rarely do), so people who cant afford it, make do with what they can get. Making do in the 3rd level sense would be non participation . But still private schools save the government money, if anything they should be more entitled to get free education as the government makes a significantly lower contribution to these peoples education[may not be true ].

I suggest you read this:http://jamesmcinerney.ie/2008/08/18/the-leaving-cert-like-the-olympics-where-everybody-is-on-drugs/ (It wont take long). You will see the point that I am trying to put forward. This "friend" is a close friend if you must know and she is now in Mary I training to be a primary school teacher after leaving veterinary. She always says that she should have done this from day one. I know of other people who have tried the grind schools and regretted it in College.

You don't understand what I am saying about the cost difference being marginal. That public school is always going to be there. The teacher is going to be paid the same amount if he/she teaches 5 kids or 25 kids so the school would be more cost efficient if it was teaching 25. (Lower average cost because you are dividing by a greater number of students) It's going to cost the same amount to heat the classroom if there are 5 or 25 students in it. So a few students going to a grind school will not alter the cost of education to the government. It's basic economics. This is obvious because if the government were saving money on these schools, they would give them the deaf ear, which they don't. They do not support these schools and rightly so.

My class was not lazy and uncooperative. We were doing our JC and our teacher was out sick from November, and he was going to be out for the whole of that school year and up to Xmas of the next year (he had Cancer). January came and went and still no sign of a teacher. We just had free classes the whole time. Then he came and we wanted to catch up on the course because we had missed so much but it was him that was lazy. We even complained to the principal about him.

You're just pulling at straws on this debate now by coming up with extremely hypothetical opinions on grind schools. Stop Digging. You're only going to bury yourself.

SligoBrewer · 14-02-2009 1:20pm

Delta Kilo wrote: »

My class was not lazy and uncooperative. We were doing our JC and our teacher was out sick from November, and he was going to be out for the whole of that school year and up to Xmas of the next year (he had Cancer). January came and went and still no sign of a teacher. We just had free classes the whole time. Then he came and we wanted to catch up on the course because we had missed so much but it was him that was lazy. We even complained to the principal about him.
.

They guy had fcuking cancer. I hardly think he was lazy.

rainbowtrout · 14-02-2009 2:37pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Epic fail right there. Dept of Education (scandalously imo) pay the wages of Grind/Privite school teachers.

No they don't, I mad this point already. Grind schools are privately run. They are self funding. Some private schools have some teachers who are paid by the Department and some whom the school pay for themselves. Hence the fees.

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I suggest you read this:http://jamesmcinerney.ie/2008/08/18/the-leaving-cert-like-the-olympics-where-everybody-is-on-drugs/ (It wont take long). You will see the point that I am trying to put forward. This "friend" is a close friend if you must know and she is now in Mary I training to be a primary school teacher after leaving veterinary. She always says that she should have done this from day one. I know of other people who have tried the grind schools and regretted it in College.

Where she did the LC did not have an influence on what she put on the CAO. I'm not in favour of grind schools but it wasn't the schools fault she didn't like veterinary

Delta Kilo wrote: »

My class was not lazy and uncooperative. We were doing our JC and our teacher was out sick from November, and he was going to be out for the whole of that school year and up to Xmas of the next year (he had Cancer). January came and went and still no sign of a teacher. We just had free classes the whole time. Then he came and we wanted to catch up on the course because we had missed so much but it was him that was lazy. We even complained to the principal about him.

Awful attitude. He probably only came back, despite being sick because you had no teacher and didn't want to see his class going without a teacher.

Fad · 14-02-2009 2:43pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Epic fail right there. Dept of Education (scandalously imo) pay the wages of Grind/Privite school teachers.

Grind schools receive absolutely no funding from the state:pac:

They pay the wages of Private school teachers, but have absolutely no involvement in Grind Schools.

My class was not lazy and uncooperative. We were doing our JC and our teacher was out sick from November, and he was going to be out for the whole of that school year and up to Xmas of the next year (he had Cancer). January came and went and still no sign of a teacher. We just had free classes the whole time. Then he came and we wanted to catch up on the course because we had missed so much but it was him that was lazy. We even complained to the principal about him.

Nice one on that link by the way, of course im totally convinced by that blog of some randomer, which was so balanced and laden with facts and proper statistics.

Are you for real! He had cancer! Any human could understand that cancer can kinda drain the life out of someone and render them inable to teach.

phasers · 14-02-2009 3:59pm

To the teacher with cancer issue: I would blame the school more than the man, he had cancer FFS!

bricky10 · 14-02-2009 5:24pm

Few people on this are saying that a summer job will cover 'some' of the fee. Do people not think its going to be very hard to get a summer job this year? In my area all the layed off construction workers are stacking shelves in the local supermarkets...Doesnt give much of the young people a chance to get a job.

lou91 · 14-02-2009 7:30pm

Delta Kilo wrote: »

In your last post you said that: "In places like the institute you're thrown into a year of 1000 people, given no individual attention unless you seek it out, and are absolutely in control of what you do. You don't do your homework or study, nobody cares. The teachers don't have time to be chasing after people, like they do in public schools."

This contradicts what you are now saying. You say that they are all brilliant teachers that are able to teach a 2 year course in 8 months but here you say that it is all up to you. I mean, which is it like, make your mind up.

I can guarantee you that almost all of the teachers in the institute are there because they could not get a post in a state school, probably due to a lack of vacancies rather than their abilities though, I will admit. They would much prefer the comfort and security of being employed by the government rather than being under pressure from a boss to achieve high results. Don't forget that all these Grind Schools want is profit, not the idea that they are creating the future doctors in society. They only want you to do well so they can put your photo in the ad for next years prospective students, not so that you can do what you want. The teachers there are taught how to teach in the same place that a teacher in a state school has. In fact a previous poster said that a lot of Grind School teachers are unqualified.

Just because teachers in state schools don't teach a 2 year course, as in the course is DESIGNED to take 2 years does not mean that they are incompetent teachers. The reason they use the 2 years is so that they cater for EVERYBODYS' capabilities. They have to put up with the odd disruptive student as it is a state school and they must also cater for those students abilities. In fact, I would say they are more competent because lots of people DO very well in state schools. My English teacher, last year, got 6 A1s, 3 A2s, 5 B1s and 4 B3s out of her class. I wouldn't class her as being incompetent.

Really? I wouldn't. They have no interaction with the student. They are like the mock correctors. They don't know anything about how you are learning the subject and therefore will not be able to give you constructive criticism. It should be your teacher correcting but as you said earlier you dont get any individual attention.

I never said that the Leaving Cert was about natural intelligence. I said that some of the courses in 3rd level require "natural" intelligence. Like the example I gave of the girl not being able to even pronounce some of the words in the veterinary course. She went to the grind school to pick up the vast amounts of knowledge that she would never need again and succeeded. But, this did not prepare her for the course. She even said it herself that it was just giving her a false sense of hope and that she should never have done veterinary. Please don't miss-quote me.

The Grind Schools are masters at preparing students for exams. I presume you are getting loads of sample answers and learning them off. The department are trying to combat this by putting twists in the Questions that mean you have to think and plan out your own answer on the day. An example of this is English paper 2 where in the comparative they brought characters into the theme and issue question. They want you to think, not just write down what you have learned off. (Our English teacher told us this, who happens to be a Chief Leaving Cert English corrector)

If that course is what you really want to do then by all means go for it. Just don't expect that the institute has prepared you for it.

I meant that it's up to you if you actually study. Taking responsibility for your own learning. You know, like college.

Why would they want to work there? Maybe they like being top of their field and rightfully making a good living from it. The fact that state school teachers aren't "under pressure from a boss" is one of the main problems. How many jobs are there where you can't be fired even if you're seriously incompetent? Not many.

I would have liked to say that there was only "the odd disruptive student" in my old school. Also, the teachers there were apathetic at best. The best quote I have for that is "nobody from this school will ever get medicine". Real inspirational. Grind school teachers want their students to succeed, and if it is only based on money I don't really care. Their dedication at least seems real.

I'm not really sure what the point of that vet story is. So the Leaving Cert isn't about natural intelligence, and yet going to a grind school gives a false sense of hope? That blog mentions that "The grades that the students get are above their ‘natural’ ability". Is that your point? I don't really think self-improvement is wrong...

"Anyone who does there LC at a grind school must pay college fees. Discuss."
I had to read over this several times to make sure it wasn't actually a joke. I'm still not convinced.

SligoBrewer · 14-02-2009 8:00pm

Fad wrote: »

Grind schools receive absolutely no funding from the state:pac:

They pay the wages of Private school teachers, but have absolutely no involvement in Grind Schools.

I sit corrected, on both my spelling and my facts. Still would like some sort of proof to back it though.

My two cents=This government for the last 12 years has been a complete show of how we, as Irish people, accepted mediocrity and lie-telling as the stable diet of the masses.

The reintroduction of fees is a massive admission of us taking three steps backward after taking two forward. You value a society by what it can offer you in the chances of achieving your potential and looking after its population. Bringing back fees indicates a step backward in society.
If they reinstate college fees, it will lead to emigration as people see the free fees of Scotland as an alternative. I find it appalling that the government of Scotland cares more about my potential than Cowen & Co.

Delta Kilo · 14-02-2009 9:26pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

They guy had fcuking cancer. I hardly think he was lazy.

You are misinterpreting me. Our actual teacher had cancer but it was his replacement teacher that was lazy. This replacement teacher is now teaching in Yeats in Galway. Jesus I'm not that bad. If a guy is sick a guy is sick and I wouldn't expect him to be working and even if he was I wouldn't dare consider him lazy. The teacher was out for 2 years and the other guy replaced him for the 2 years. It is this other man that I am criticising. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.

Where she did the LC did not have an influence on what she put on the CAO. I'm not in favour of grind schools but it wasn't the schools fault she didn't like veterinary

Im not saying it is the schools fault that she didn't like veterinary. But, the grind school gave her the points to go on and do it which, in the first place, she wanted to do because she liked cats and dogs and she thought the money would be really good and she would be set up for life. She didn't anticipate all the complex chemistry, castration of farm animals etc that made her dislike it. The points she got in her LC from the state school was her "natural" abilty or true potential if you like and now she is doing a course that matches that ability and she loves it. The grind school was basically a waste of time and money because it was giving her the method to get the points even though veterinary was beyond her capability.

My physics teacher is always doing stuff that isn't really on the curriculum. Real world stuff. Eg. when we were doing the earths magnetic fields he brought in a big chart of galway bay and showed us how the ships navigate using the true north to find their position on the map. He does something like this with all topics which does make the course longer but it makes physics really interesting and enjoyable. On rate my teacher, all the past pupils that have left comments said that it was this extra-curricular stuff that he done that is helping them through engineering and science courses in College. He is giving us a true education, not just working from exam papers and trying to supe us up for an exam. But we are all doing well in the subject because we all have a love of the subject because of how he teaches it.

Nice one on that link by the way, of course im totally convinced by that blog of some randomer, which was so balanced and laden with facts and proper statistics.

The statistics are not known because the grind schools don't bother to find out how many of their past students are still doing the courses they started. Once they have the points and they get them on the media, they don't give a toss. There work is done as far as they are concerned. Any statistics that do come out are kept hush-hush by these schools because they don't want the truth tarnishing their reputation.

I meant that it's up to you if you actually study. Taking responsibility for your own learning. You know, like college..

Grind school teachers want their students to succeed, and if it is only based on money I don't really care

There is a contradiction in that. I mean are the teachers helping you or is it up to you to succeed in these schools? If it is the latter, then there is NO reason why you cannot get the same results in a public school. They are using the fact that you have paid to be there and you do not want to waste that money and it is that that is giving you the initiative to work hard.

The reintroduction of fees is a massive admission of us taking three steps backward after taking two forward. You value a society by what it can offer you in the chances of achieving your potential and looking after its population. Bringing back fees indicates a step backward in society.
If they reinstate college fees, it will lead to emigration as people see the free fees of Scotland as an alternative. I find it appalling that the government of Scotland cares more about my potential than Cowen & Co.

You have hit the nail on the head. They have given us "free" 3rd level education so now they cannot renege on that just because it dosen't suit them at the minute. It is the same with the medical card for OAPs.

Fad · 14-02-2009 10:11pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I sit corrected, on both my spelling and my facts. Still would like some sort of proof to back it though.

My two cents=This government for the last 12 years has been a complete show of how we, as Irish people, accepted mediocrity and lie-telling as the stable diet of the masses.

The reintroduction of fees is a massive admission of us taking three steps backward after taking two forward. You value a society by what it can offer you in the chances of achieving your potential and looking after its population. Bringing back fees indicates a step backward in society.
If they reinstate college fees, it will lead to emigration as people see the free fees of Scotland as an alternative. I find it appalling that the government of Scotland cares more about my potential than Cowen & Co.

I did quote the Institute pamphlet a few pages back, clearly stating that they have never taken a penny from the government, its not proof, but I'd call it fairly reliable. Sorry about the spelling:pac:

I wont veer furthur off topic with a rant regarding the current government, but I dont think Finne Gael are a good alternative, like if people dislike Cowen, who knows what we'll think of Enda Kenny (Leadership skills comparable to a jar of freakin' Marmite)

whadabouchasir · 14-02-2009 10:14pm

Fad wrote: »

That 7 billion euro was to ya know, stop the economy completely collapsing.

I really dont get how it would improve, it would be substituting a government contribution with a student one. I really dont get how that could improve the education system.

.............

If the money was added to the amount that the govenment already gives then this would improve the situation , also if the universities and government agreed on an amount say 10,000 per year for the state to loan students then all of the money that the goverment gives would go straight to the colleges. If this doesn't work in one of the most democratic and least corrupt countries in the world(according to wikipedia) then it won't work anywhere.

K4t · 14-02-2009 10:20pm

Fad wrote: »

like if people dislike Cowen, who knows what we'll think of Enda Kenny (Leadership skills comparable to a jar of freakin' Marmite)

You don't know that. What exactly are you basing that coment on. He's never been given the chance to lead the country. If this economic crisi occurred before july 2007 Enda Kenny would be the current Taoiseach.

Enda kenny has revived Fine Gael and made them into a viable replacement for FF over the last few years.

Fad · 14-02-2009 10:27pm

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Im not saying it is the schools fault that she didn't like veterinary. But, the grind school gave her the points to go on and do it which, in the first place, she wanted to do because she liked cats and dogs and she thought the money would be really good and she would be set up for life. She didn't anticipate all the complex chemistry, castration of farm animals etc that made her dislike it. The points she got in her LC from the state school was her "natural" abilty or true potential if you like and now she is doing a course that matches that ability and she loves it. The grind school was basically a waste of time and money because it was giving her the method to get the points even though veterinary was beyond her capability.

My physics teacher is always doing stuff that isn't really on the curriculum. Real world stuff. Eg. when we were doing the earths magnetic fields he brought in a big chart of galway bay and showed us how the ships navigate using the true north to find their position on the map. He does something like this with all topics which does make the course longer but it makes physics really interesting and enjoyable. On rate my teacher, all the past pupils that have left comments said that it was this extra-curricular stuff that he done that is helping them through engineering and science courses in College. He is giving us a true education, not just working from exam papers and trying to supe us up for an exam. But we are all doing well in the subject because we all have a love of the subject because of how he teaches it.

The statistics are not known because the grind schools don't bother to find out how many of their past students are still doing the courses they started. Once they have the points and they get them on the media, they don't give a toss. There work is done as far as they are concerned. Any statistics that do come out are kept hush-hush by these schools because they don't want the truth tarnishing their reputation.

How is the school to blame even in the slightest sense for her not liking the course she chose, not school could tell you that. Fair enough I want to study science and I know the chemistry I'm learning now is essentially lies, but seriously how could the school have prepared her for that (short answer, they could have). Castration is part of being a vet, so is putting animals down, she should have done a little research into her chosen career path, and not blame the school ffs.

Pat Doyle teaches in the Institute, and he also discusses stuff that isnt strictly on the syllabus, (Some constant in particular comes to mind, that you dont need to know where it comes from, but he still explains it), and has a sense of humour, that was on a revision course, never mind going there full time.

whadabouchasir · 14-02-2009 10:29pm

i know this is a little off topic but no political party currently has an approval rating of above 50%.This means that the majority of the population don't want any of the parties to be running the country.

Fad · 14-02-2009 10:30pm

K4t wrote: »

You don't know that. What exactly are you basing that coment on. He's never been given the chance to lead the country. If this economic crisi occurred before july 2007 Enda Kenny would be the current Taoiseach.

Enda kenny has revived Fine Gael and made them into a viable replacement for FF over the last few years.

Of course I dont know, hence "Who knows"!

I dont think its this governments fault either, its been coming for a while, and I think its far far too easy to be critical of them, when theres not a whole lot that they can do, they dont exactly have massive resources to work with.

whadabouchasir · 14-02-2009 10:36pm

Fad wrote: »

they dont exactly have massive resources to work with.

they don't now but for years they did. I am reminded of the billions wasted on thigs such as e-voting,p-pars,the luas,the spire. If there was better management of the finances then more could have been spent on important things like the health service and education.

K4t · 14-02-2009 10:37pm

Fad wrote: »

Of course I dont know, hence "Who knows"!

I dont think its this governments fault either, its been coming for a while, and I think its far far too easy to be critical of them, when theres not a whole lot that they can do, they dont exactly have massive resources to work with.

1. You compared his leadership skills to a "jar of freakin' Marmite" :rolleyes:

2. Of course it's the government's fault. If I recall, one Bertie Ahern told those who forecasted an economic downturn that they should go and 'commit suicide'. Finanacial regulators and the Governemnt turned a blind eye to the Banks' dirty dealings.

Anyway, back on topic. University fees.

Delta Kilo · 14-02-2009 10:45pm

Fad wrote: »

How is the school to blame even in the slightest sense for her not liking the course she chose, not school could tell you that. Fair enough I want to study science and I know the chemistry I'm learning now is essentially lies, but seriously how could the school have prepared her for that (short answer, they could have). Castration is part of being a vet, so is putting animals down, she should have done a little research into her chosen career path, and not blame the school ffs.

Pat Doyle teaches in the Institute, and he also discusses stuff that isnt strictly on the syllabus, (Some constant in particular comes to mind, that you dont need to know where it comes from, but he still explains it), and has a sense of humour, that was on a revision course, never mind going there full time.

I wonder would that be Planck's constant? Our physics teacher told us about that as well.

She isn't blaming the school she is just annoyed that they can get away with suping you up for the LC just so they can make money. When she got her results after doing the LC for the first time, she thought, "oh, it dosen't matter, i can go to Yeats". Too many people just have the attitiude that if it doesn't work out then "ah well, theres always the grind schools". Again, I will repeat it is false. She now advises everyone to stay well clear of grind schools and a lot of her friends from Yeats have also dropped out of their courses and are also telling people not to consider them. They may get you the points but that doesn't mean that you will "flourish" in college.

Yes, she should have done more research and yes that is not the schools fault (unless they do not have guidance councilors or don't allow private meetings with the councilors). Its just that they gave her the means to go on to do a course that she would never like.

Fad · 14-02-2009 10:52pm

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I wonder would that be Planck's constant? Our physics teacher told us about that as well.

She isn't blaming the school she is just annoyed that they can get away with suping you up for the LC just so they can make money. When she got her results after doing the LC for the first time, she thought, "oh, it dosen't matter, i can go to Yeats". Too many people just have the attitiude that if it doesn't work out then "ah well, theres always the grind schools". Again, I will repeat it is false. She now advises everyone to stay well clear of grind schools and a lot of her friends from Yeats have also dropped out of their courses and are also telling people not to consider them. They may get you the points but that doesn't mean that you will "flourish" in college.

Yes, she should have done more research and yes that is not the schools fault (unless they do not have guidance councilors or don't allow private meetings with the councilors). Its just that they gave her the means to go on to do a course that she would never like.

I dont think it was Plank's constant, not sure if it was in modern physics, one of the constants in electricity......

Most grind schools have guidance councilors, who's only responsibility is guidance, unlike my school where he teaches Irish too, so getting an appointment can be tricky.

Delta Kilo · 14-02-2009 11:08pm

Fad wrote: »

I dont think it was Plank's constant, not sure if it was in modern physics, one of the constants in electricity......

Most grind schools have guidance councilors, who's only responsibility is guidance, unlike my school where he teaches Irish too, so getting an appointment can be tricky.

Ya the whole of modern physics is a joke. Its all based on trying to prove that something that works in practice but cant be done in theory. To get around this they just put in random numbers such as Plancks constant so that the theory matches what is actually happening. But that is for a different thread.

My guidance councilor teaches as well but she usually has a good few free classes that she "sacrifices" for us. Usually if you ask for a meeting she will have one the next day, definitely within the week and if she happens to be absent, she will make it her business to find you and organise a new meeting.

On a side, happy valentines day to everybody!

College Fees

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