Is Ireland the most incompetent country in all of Europe?

thebigcheese22

People should count their blessings they're not in Italy!
I know Cowen's a blithering idiot that should resigne ASAP but at least we don't have Burlesconi!!! :eek:

diverdriver

Ah, bring back the good old days when we could blame the British. I wonder is there anyway we could blame the British. :(

No? Oh well, we only have ourselves to blame. Actually we don't, femur and others who point the finger at the ordinary people. You have the wrong targets. I for one was not materially better off during the boom years. I had an ordinary job, with very ordinary pay. I couldn't afford a house, even with the easy money going around and I could barely afford the rent on a shared house or a car. Right during the eighties during our own self inflicted recession. I had a similar job with similar money. In practical terms I was better off because my money went further.

The difference between the Celtic Tiger years and the recessionary years was that more people had jobs, in fact everyone who wanted one had a job and a bunch of foreigners too. I used to work with a lot of young guys and girls from Dublin's famous suburbs. Finglas, Ballymun etc. Back in the eighties they would have been unemployed. Now they had the pick of jobs and many did well for themselves. That wouldn't have happened in the eighties and won't happen anymore.

Are they to blame for believing they had a future and the privilege of buying their own houses and looking forward to a life out of poverty, something their parents never could do? Certainly not.

We all know who is to blame now, every day it's get's clearer. We can also blame a lot of the smaller business people who got greedy and began to charge higher prices because they could. Hairdressers, barbers, mechanics, plumbers, shop keepers. Anyone who dealt in cash business to the public. Karma will ensure many of those people will suffer the consequences of their greed but the really big crooks will probably get away with it. Their political friends also. Bertie Ahern top of the list.

fuzzy dunlop

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I am here showing this to my friends and they are laughing in disbelief at what you’ve written!
They think you’re confused between Lithuanian and Belarus or Uganda.

.

That may well be "laughing" but it doesn't make what I said any less true.I'm not suggesting everyone in rural Lithuania lives like this.There is some cracking buildings there too. but there is as a huge amount of people living in the condions I described. It's fair to say that 30% of the population must live in the countryside.If 5% of that are living like this then that's one fifty thousand people.That is definetely not an unfair estimate. But even the more recent buildings I've see a significant amount leave lot to be deire in terms of quality.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

My friend from Klaipeda explained that these homes if they exist usually belong to the elderly who live in absolute poverty and equated it to travellers in Ireland on a halting site.
They said there may exist a person here and there who lives that this, but definitely not in the hundreds, not to mention thousands.
There are not many not young people as they migrate toward cities, Kaliningrad or to UK/Ireland.
These people frequently rely on a minimal state pension, and equally as frequently are burgaled.

Well this is not a fair comparison.Fair to the Lithuanians I mean. And I get the impression that your friend from Klaipeda is disowning his own people.Human nature I suppose.Plenty of Irish did the same thing.These to me look like small farmers or landowners. .The things that struck me was the number of houses with a single cow outside and/or an outhouse.Incidentally it was my other half told me what the outhouses were. The other thing was a bucket of fruit,usually apples perched on a fence or on the road for sale. I relayed this to people in Ireland who are old enough to remember i.e my mothers generation and they said it was the same here back in the day i.e 50's or 60's.Now I'm old enough to remeber the mid seventies and this was not seen in Ireland in any comparable way even then.

But your friends excuse is only ans excuse.I had this arguemet with white South Africans before about statistics.They typically refute them because whites live in good conditions while blacks are living in extreme poverty.But the bottom line is the two issues cannot be seperated.

This is not a crtiticizm.It is what it is.I'm just reiterating that you have to take all aspects of a counttry to say which is more or less progressive/advanced.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The trolleybuses cost a pittance and they run on time.
Beautiful - no
Functional - not too shabby

I grew up in Cork City and used to get the bus to UCC every day from an affluent part of the city.
Half the time I didn't know if it was broken down or late.
After a while, I just gave up and just walked it. For 3 out of 4 years.
Does this happen regularily in The Capital?

I've gotten the bus from Celbridge to the Dublin City Centre and that thing looked like it was from the 80s, felt like it was from the 50s and the only overhead electric cables were the ones that the pikeys had ripped out of the lighting fixtures.

To be fair, I' gave up on the bus a long time ago, so there may be big improvements, but according to the commuters in my office, there hasn't been.

About the Dart etc., never been on it. Nothing like it here.

Holland was amazing. The transport in Amsterdam is unlike anything I could imagine.

For long distance rail, Poland puts Ireland to shame.
I travelled Warsaw to Poznan to Krakow to Zakopane.

There were supposed to complete the railway to Midelton when I lived there about 5 years ago.
There was a railway to my town but they abandoned it in the 60s.

My brother tells me the Luas is pretty good but I wouldn't know anything about it.

.

I've noticed you previously disregarded the comparison to Russia due to the sheer difference in size.Is Poland not an unfair comparison? Seeing as it has 10 times the population of Ireland. and is 4 times the size. Even so it proves my point regarding Econmomy of Scale.Warsw,Poznan and Krakow all have popiulations over or near a million with Warsaw being almost 4 million.Dublin is 1,2 Million and Cork is 190000 They are all closer to each other than Cork and Dublin. Similarly it's no coincidence that the Dutch transport system corresponds with it being the most densely populated country in Europe. .

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

In the few rural areas I’ve been to in Lithuania, the houses have mostly been 2nd homes/holiday homes. I’ve seen latrines here, but I’ve seen the same thing in extremely old country houses in West Cork, but honestly never seen anything even remotely like the picture you’re painting.

.

Well you've acknowledged youreslf you've been to few rural areas in Lithuania.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The Lithuania I’m familiar with is the one of students sitting in the Akropolis and going ice skating.

I was going to bring Akropolis up in my last post. As far as I know there are three of these.I've been to the one in Klaipeda and the one in Vilnius. They're impressive enough places I suppose more so becasuse of the Ice rinks and the surrounding cafés than anything else. However if you look a bit closer you see the way they are costructed.Look up at the ceiling in these places and the walls of the shops. It is basically a warehouse conversion. If you've been to the Akropolis in Vilnius you will also see from the carpark a perfect example in multitude of typical Lithuanian housing in the multitude of Ballymun type tower blocks.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Its clear we have had significantly different experiences and I would urge you’re brother to relocate if he is living in these conditions.

.

It is clear we have had different experiences.I think the difference is my experience in Lithuania is more varied.When I went there first my other half her expression was "now you will see the real Lithuania" when we left Vilnius. And this wasn;t in the tourist brochure sense.It was in the reality sense.

On the subject of relocation.Relocate to where? 60% of people live in these type of places.I've already posted a Lithuanian link that veridies this.Probably 80% in the three large cities.My brother in law and his wife earn good money by the standard of most Lituanians.
Don't get me wrong there are nice houses and apartments.I'v stayed in them too but the people who can afford them are way up the food chain compared to most Lithuanians.Perhaps the issue here is that your partner and your Lithuanian friends are higher up the socio economic scale than most Lithuanians.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Given that you seem to have a visited more rural locations than me, all I can say is that I take your word for it and I’m genuinely surprised. I’ve honestly never encountered anything of the sort.
Speaking for Poland, I would say the same thing.

.

I haven't just visited rural locations. I've experieced the place extensively.Their cities,towns resorts and countryside.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Well, first, there is still no motorway from Cork to Dublin like there is Kaunus to Vilnius. There are patches tho.
Portlaose to Dublin is all motorway tho, and a pleasure for me to drive on the rare occasion I get a chance to.
Hard to describe but when I enter Portlaoise until Monaghan, I feel like I’m in the Celtic Tiger zone.

.

How much of the Motorway has been finished? approx over 50% by mid year along with most of the others more I would say in the case of Dublin and Galway,Belfast,Limerick etc.They are beyond the point of no return as far as contracts are concerned so they can't be cut at this stage.So in another 12 months they will all be complete. But you've raised an interesting point here motorway construction in Ireland is piecemeal in that they do a stretch on each route at the same time rather than doing one project from start to finish.This is frustrating from the user point of view.However there is a huge amount of work going on around that's nearing completion.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The one road we do have to this standard is the Watergrasshill Motorway.

To be fair there is lot of good infrastructure like the Cork SRR and JL tunnel for a small city like Cork.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Now, Have you been to CastleMartyr?

.

I've passed through it many times although never stopped.Is this where you live?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

No, but my buddy says they are “deep, dark villages” on par with Ukraine.

.

They're not that off the beaten track.This is typical small/medium town Lithuania.The equivelent here would be say Dungarven,Mallow,Enniscorthy,Nenagh in the case of Anyksciai and Kilkenny.Atkhlone,Carlow,Tralee,Sligo in the case of Ukmerge.They're also not without there charms.Beautiful churches etc.However the point again is that taken as a whole and comparing to an similar Irish town they are a fair bit behind.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I’ve been to these Soviet era Ballymuns.
In Kaunas for example, around Mazoj, there former military barracks converted into housing.
They cost a pittance and there is little to compare it to in Ireland.
You ought to see some of the crap on the Northside of this city that passes for housing.

For the other ones, my only problem is that they’re too small for my liking.
I cannot vouch for the blocks outside of Kaunas or Vilnius, but I have seen worse in Ireland.
.

I'm not saying their is no crap housing in Ireland.I'm sayoing Lithuania has spades more of it.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

As opposed to the property magnates in Ireland.
Same thing with a different name.
Look at the Anglo Report.

At least they can get a house, unlike in Ireland where you had to take 10 times your income.

.

Guess Again.In fact it is much worse than here when wages are considered.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/real-estate-house-prices/L

http://www.worldofproperty.co.uk/news-585.htm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Well, this is so far off the original discussion and not the point I was trying to make, but its quite typical of the generalisations I hear about EE, quite even more ironic if you’ve been reading newspapers over the last 3 or 4 weeks, so I should have a crack off it anyway.I'll bet any revision of Irish levels of corruption in the end will see no changed when compared to other countries

This is the problem.These types of discussions are usually generated by people who simply focus on what is going on in Ireland and an over reliance on Irish media outlets for their information while ignoring what is going on in other countries. But the fact is events in Ireland are to a greater or lesser degree are mirrored everywhere else.

Polutical Scandals

http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/scandals/political.html#brit

The rest of the world

http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/scandals/political.html#brit

Banking Scandals

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,597904,00.html

http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/scandals/classic.html

Fred Goodwin

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/28/fred-goodwin-pensions-bonuses

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Given that this discussion has arisen out of the worst corruption, unprecendented in this country, I think we may need to revise the figures.
I don’t dispute there is a lot of corruption in Lithuania.
I find it difficult to accept that they are anymore corrupt than we are at higher levels.
You may have written this before recent events to be fair tho..

Well the figures aren't revised yet.And when they are I bet there will be marginal difference.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I do however accept that their level of corruption extends further down the chain than does here, given public sector renumeration.
I believe this will change in Ireland given the pension levy as we face into defecit crisis..

This is possible but you have to consider it will happen in every other country too.However I personally think there will be a flipside and you will see a lot more efficiencies.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I also believe that we are not half as transparent as we would like to believe.
Its shockingly obvious that the corruption in Ireland exposed over recent weeks has been an international disaster and embarrassment, if not unexpected.
At the moment, we make look Bulgaria look good..

Well it would be hard to believe that an Organisation like the EIU,the UN,WHO or OECD could do a survey on Ireland and be duped on a mass scale by the govt without being rumbled.It they tried I imagine our rankings would be a lot worse.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

At this stage, its quite unusual if our Taoiseach manages to finish his political career without a tribunal or allegations of corruption

.

Well we'll see but so far the "Golden Circle" and their political connections has been mainly an inference by the opposition. The media didn't touch this side of it with a stick.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Already explained.
A boom gives all the advantages that sustained wealth doesn’t.
Revenues exceed pay rates and inflation.
Land costs don’t come into it – fibre optics are laid along railway lines which already belong to the state.
Economy of scale doesn’t enter into the matter when you’re talking about a once off construction of a backbone.

.

You actually have this completely in reverse.The economy in Ireland has been effectively overheating for the last 10 years.The building bubble permeated costs in nearly every area of the economy.For example one of the main cost factors considered by Intel during it's expansions was the cost of hiring Irish construction firms.Apart from the fact that you've no economic reference for the assertions you've just made.


Are fibre optics laid along railway lines?I doubt that is always the case.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Ok, well explain to me this.
My Gf’s mother has a brain tumour and waited 2 weeks for kemo and treatment etc.
My uncle has prostate cancer going on a bit and is still waiting.

Are we really so advanced?

I understand the facts and the figures, but I think they’re distorted – Kind of like the Irish GDP vs. GNP.


I already discussed that report earlier if you scroll up.
While I and members of my family and colleagues have had bad experiences with the HSE, I accept that not all people do.
And while I have had good experiences with the Lithuanian and Polish health services, I cannot accept that not all people do.

My point was that, we don’t get the bang for the buck or anything close to it.



.

Granted the survey does show that Ireland does not get good "bang for the buck" compared to Lithuania .But is also comparable to Belgiun and Norway who has the highest healthcare. But then again the outcome of treatment which is way ahead of Lithuania and comparable to Germany and France and ahead of the UK.So I would say overall the survey is accurate enough.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

You’ve clearly proven my point. Read back if you don’t understand.
I’m a computer science graduate, I work in IT.
I can’t get broadband, even though I live in a commuter town.
The governments answer is to use the 3G system.
The sales people themselves have advised me against it, warning its not suitable.
I depend on broadband for my livelihood, currently driving to my father’s house in the city everyday until its resolved.
My father lives in the most affluent area of the city and cannot get ADSL.
He has wirelss.

.

I gathered you were an IT graduate of some description.This explains your anger at the provision of Broadband.You also stated in an earlier post that all you ever wanted was a decent broadband connection so this explains your frustration.Nevertheless you still can't narrow this issue into a broadband one.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

If you don’t recognise the importance broadband has for business and the future of this country, you don’t understand the nature of business or the future of industry in this country.

.

I do understand the importance of it.I'm also not trying to minimise the importance of it.However what I am saying is that a counrtrys progress is not reducable to just broadband.There is probably at least 10 other factors to consider (of the top of my head).So on the contrary if you think you can reduce the economic needs of the country to one thing then it is you who don't understand the busines needs of the counrty's industry. And from a social aspect there is probably a hundred things to consider.None of which would include skyscrapers nor broadband to a great degree.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Do you know who Ireland’s biggest employer is?
Who the second biggest employer was?

.

I presume your referring to Intel and Dell.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Google, Intel, Dell, McAfee, Motorola, Microsoft…………..these are just a sample of the world leading names that have or have had their European HeadQuarters in Ireland over the past 5 years.

.

I'm well aware of this.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

They’re not crappy factory jobs with low pay.
And they’re generally not manufacturing jobs which relocate at the first sign of trouble.

.

And they don't just come here because of the Broadband infrastructure.And as far as I am aware these large multinationals and other business like the banks don't rely on the same infrastructure as a domestic user.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I don’t know how to make it simpler to understand.

There is a scheme in Ireland to deal with broadband penetration, for people like myself who live outside the main cities in commuter towns.

Your argument is that its tough luck for people living out here, despite the fact that the government currently have a bill passed to deal specifically with this issue and are paying out a lot of money to deal with the issue.

We have fibre optic cables the length and breadth of the country which aren’t even in use.
Domestic broadband users are held to ransom by Eircom, regardless of the ISP they use.

Can you really not see the logic here at all?

I’m sorry but I don’t know how to genuinely simplify it more than that


http://www.connectivityscorecard.org/images/uploads/media/Ireland.pdf




.

This is not my atitude at all.I'm not saying you can go to hell because you live in a small town or whatever.But it is a basic fact that Leinster and the North East are the only places that have population distribution close to a European Average which affects the provision of infrastructure.But from this post again you suggest that that the infrastructure is already there and Eircom is the pronlem .

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The Eircom fiasco happened a long time ago.
Giving our positions in IT and the importance of the industry to our economy, that is simply not an acceptable excuse.

.

It may have happened a long time ago but when it was privatised It was done outright.Therefore when Eircom became a private company it had certain legal rights as part of the deal.AfAIK this prevented the government from setting up a parallel infrastructure or allowing another company to do so. It's easy to say well **** eircom and change the law or whatever which I would personally like to do but this has other negatice implications.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Incorrect in the case of Poland in that it is very rare for a country to experience such a phenomenal increase in revenue and improvement of living conditions such as Ireland has experienced.
Is there a similar comparison within the EU?

The points you’re making (I would call it clutching at straws) went way beyond the initial scope of the thread, which was infrastructure and specifically, broadband infrastructure.
.

No but you said an interesting thing there."Living conditions".Living conditions in Ireland are among the highest probably with Norway and Denmark.Infrastructure is wothless if it is not matched by an increase in living standards.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Ok, so I start a thread judging the incompetence of Ireland based on squandering of billions and our ability to construct broadband infrastructure relative to poorer countries, and you’re telling me this is not a fair criteria, but comparing the amount of Latrines in Lithuania somehow is, then you’re bringing Africa in the equation. And my argument is nonsense………………??

You ought to get a job working with Willie O’Dea fella, I think ye would see eye to eye.

.

You actually started a thread asking "Is Ireland the most incompetent country in Europe?".You asked another question "..Or just Western Europe". All the impartial evidence suggests otherwise.You can't judge this simply on media sensationalism or political hyperbola.From what I have seen there is plenty of incompetence and funnily enough it seems to be a Western European trait rather than an Eastern European one. The scale of waste seems to be just as bad in


Germany

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2800108,00.html


UK


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1557344/Public-overspend-costs-each-household-900.html

I havn't posted links but similar waste has occured in Japan the, USA and the Netherlands in the 90's.

As for Willie O'Dea.I never voted for him but it must be comforting for you that Cork has been a FF stronghold in this country from day one.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Another Character attack?
Would you mind to explain that comment when you stop being Politically correct?
Otherwise go back to sleep.

I don't see how I attacked your character if I did I apologise but you did say that the people who emigrated here form EE were their "least best" people.I don't see how this is any different from the "snobbery" as you called the Irish atitude to EE.

luckat

Why are people responding to this blatant troll?

nesf

luckat wrote: »

Why are people responding to this blatant troll?

Don't call people trolls on this forum.

luckat

nesf wrote: »

Don't call people trolls on this forum.

I didn't. I called the thread a troll.

nesf

luckat wrote: »

I didn't. I called the thread a troll.

There is litte meaningful difference between calling a thread a troll and calling a user a troll, regardless both are against the rules.

Dannyboy83

Fuzzy Logic,

I just saw your answer now.
You made some good points and some interesting points, thank you.

Regarding the last bit about the 'least best people', thats an EE joke, I thought you'd know about that one.

It based on a comment that Lech Kaczynski made in 2006 about all the Eastern European people going to work in IRL/UK were betraying their country to clean toilets in here, were natural born failures and "Poland's least best people" and were "feckless" poles robbing the Polish welfare systemet.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-415147/Britain-country-choice-feckless-Poles.html

It was pretty big news at the time, by was subsequently swamped by his anti-homosexual comments.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fury-at-polish-president-gay-threat-warning-56059.html

Then he was reputed to be a homosexual himself:
http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17353508&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&rfi=6

Then that was swamped by the man being a complete ultra conservative idiot and when the young people started returning to Poland, the government collapsed amid crisis and Donald Tusk became PM.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1566730/Polish-PM-Kaczynski-to-be-shot-down-in-polls.html


RE Cork being a FF stronghold - Michael Martin is a good politician and one of the few good men in Fianna Fail (I voted for him in the past and don't regret it, he did some good stuff like the smoking ban), but don't forget we had the original Big Fella in FG and people like the Coveneys

Anyway,
Thanks for the debate,
we will have to meet up some time in Lithuania for a drink

Cheers,
Dan

Johnboy Mac

There's a good chance we are the most incompetent.

If we are, there is several and maybe many reasons for this situation.

One of the main reasons is Irelands general lack of population.

We have say 4m, that's only 1/20th of the population of Germany and France, 1/15th of the U.K. and a 1/4 of The Netherlands.

So, therefore with less people we have less quality fit for political office which is a major drawback and to compound this with less wealth & less major home grown industries due to a small population it makes it very difficult for this country. The parital solution is to demand the best politicans that we can muster with policies that but the country as a whole first - which is not happening.

I'm in dispair when I look at our leaders etc, all I see is the 'GOMBEEN' mentality practiced everywhere.

jimmmy

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

There's a good chance we are the most incompetent.

If we are, there is several and maybe many reasons for this situation.

One of the main reasons is Irelands general lack of population.

We have say 4m, that's only 1/20th of the population of Germany and France, 1/15th of the U.K. and a 1/4 of The Netherlands.

So, therefore with less people we have less quality fit for political office which is a major drawback and to compound this with less wealth & less major home grown industries due to a small population it makes it very difficult for this country. The parital solution is to demand the best politicans that we can muster with policies that but the country as a whole first - which is not happening.

I'm in dispair when I look at our leaders etc, all I see is the 'GOMBEEN' mentality practiced everywhere.

Good point. Certain individuals that come out of Ireland seem to be world class ( eg Michael O'Leary has grown Ryanair to be one of the most successful airlines in the world, also Willie Walsh, Tony O'Reilly, Quinn etc ) , but our political leaders have always left something to be desired.

thebman

I think Ireland chases away a lot of its best minds because they get frustrated at the general lack off recognition or enforcement of any standards on the political class.

Why would a truly outstanding individual want to be associated with the likes of Bertie or Charlie?

Johnboy Mac

Why would a truly outstanding individual want to be associated with the likes of Bertie or Charlie?[/quote]


Your right, they don't need nor want to be assoicated with likes of Bertie and the boys etc. But these are high flying business people, who can operate anywhere in the world.

We need people that want to serve their country, intelligent people that are broad minded, have imaginations and above all know wrong from right & no grey areas like our current & past boyo's in power find totally acceptable. And they must not be in anyway connected to business.

I'm dreaming here I know, but that's what is required.


Edit: it could be done and a start would be to vote more Independents in, this might help. Now, nobody start going on about the the downsides we know what they are but marginalising major parties may make things happen for the betterment of our country - only an idea, that's all.

Daithinski

thebman wrote: »

I think Ireland chases away a lot of its best minds because they get frustrated at the general lack off recognition or enforcement of any standards on the political class.

Why would a truly outstanding individual want to be associated with the likes of Bertie or Charlie?

There doesn't seem to be much value put on having a "good mind" in the Irish political system.



I cringe when I see them on TV. They look like a right bunch of cretins. They're like something you would find in a home for the bewildered.

You would only want to get into FF politics (ie the Dail) if you are ...

a) naive
b) Have a business and want to join a powerful network (which they are)
c) Have good buddies in FF / Your da was a fianna fail TD, you are a talentless piece of sh!te and want a well paid cushy number.

The more of the traits below you have the more you will prosper in FF

a) Have some sort of "dirt" on higher up members
b) Embrace cronyism with all your heart
c) devious and cunning
d) sociopathic tendencies.

A good mind would be an advantage but not required.

(I'd love to know the IQ of the FF ministers. For the laugh.)

Johnboy Mac

I cringe when I see them on TV. They look like a right bunch of cretins.




+1

AlekSmart

ll I can think of is this..................................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkL_qou54I&feature=related

Yee Haw,what one might call "A Class Act " !!!

gurramok

This thread has some of the longest posts i've ever seen on boards!

Basically, we are in the bottom half of the Premier League regarding incompetence, we are not alone!

Mr.Micro

gurramok wrote: »

This thread has some of the longest posts i've ever seen on boards!

Basically, we are in the bottom half of the Premier League regarding incompetence, we are not alone!

Perhaps we are going to be relegated by the end of the year.

acontadino

well spain are struggling at the foot of the table, its really between us, latvia, the greeks and the italians for the final two relegation places.

Johnboy Mac

AlekSmart wrote: »

ll I can think of is this..................................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkL_qou54I&feature=related

Yee Haw,what one might call "A Class Act " !!!

I'll never forget watching that on T.V.. I kept waiting and waiting for one of those gombeens to start waving!

Daithinski

AlekSmart wrote: »

ll I can think of is this..................................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkL_qou54I&feature=related

Yee Haw,what one might call "A Class Act " !!!

Great soundtrack.

Daemonica

We voted NO in Lisbon. That's why we suck.

IrishToffees

100% Yes! What this government has done to this country is nothing short of criminal! I don’t accept the "global problem" reply. This country is in dire straits. If we as a people do not resist this government and complacently let their cosy cartels run the working class into ruin then this country could take generations to recover. It is time to ACT! I am not aligned to any political party but this madness has to stop!

Daemonica

**** the working class. Bloody uneducated rehabs. Always they make the most noise yet take the least actions. No point in spamming the fact that we are screwed, most of us voted for our government anyway, so it is only fair that we take the blame.


Always the working class people do this. Complain and complain and complain until the government shoves some handouts their way.

It will never be enough, since people like that are only concerned about themselves, about what the country can do for them, rather then what they can do do improve their community on a whole. I don't see a concerted effort coming from those idiots any time soon.

IrishToffees

One minute here. Take whatever pills u Cleary need. Don’t be using offensive words like idiots and quoting JFK's historic speech as part of your defence of a corrupt and failed government. JFK would turn in his grave to be associated with such flawed and corrupt government. I am third level educated but work in the private sector and would consider my roots as working class. I do voluntary work and am heavily involved in my local youth sport scene.
What do you do sit at home and think of ways of avoiding paying tax like this shambolic government has massively encouraged for the last 12 years!

Daemonica

The idea of paying taxes offends me anyway, since the monetary system is completely in ruin. Sure you can have working class roots, but it means nothing if your demographic is pulling you down. I honestly don't care anymore about that. I'm sick and tired of the moaning. There is a certain hush when it comes to bashing the working class for any reason, and I for one am sick of it. The working class represents most of the country at the moment. And REALISTICALLY most of the working class I talk with are racist and completely ignorant. Just because you didn't have the opportunity / money wa wa wa when you are growing up doesn't mean you gotta blame everything on the poles or the Nigerians, Get a bloody grip for god's sake. It is always the working class that complains th most about the government, regardless of economic plight or social conditions or even who is actually in power. There is always some reason for griping on and on without actually doing anything necessary to make changes. Oh sure, you can form unions and debate the matter over and over again until the sun burns out, but you rarely make any difference.




The working class places the most stereotypes on people then any other culture. SO it is obvious from OP's post that they can dish it, but can't take it. If you come from working class, but earn middle class paycheck, you are NOT working class anymore. Congratulations.


Plus the fact that I don't actually know of any sane minded middle class citizen that would openly vote for Sinn Fein.

Daemonica

And I pay my taxes like everyone else. Do me a favor and don;'t even try a rebuttal. I'd crush it in an instant if the best you can come up with is being offended by the big bad evil words I'm using and suggesting that I don't pay taxes. I don't need pills, I'm wide awake to the country's problems, but the difference is I'm not going to drive a taxi all day and promote hatred for the Immigrants.

IrishToffees

Stereotype, I am so glad u mentioned it!. I can’t believe you are implying all working class people are racist. I travelled the world and my facebook account will verify my anti-racist stance.
I am genuinely shocked and angered with your attitude. After our brief conversation it is blatantly oblivious you have your neo right wing views that are so entrenched that any reply or reason from me is just a waste of time!
Ill put this to you though. Enter any City or Town Centre in Ireland today and start using phrases like "**** the working class" and "most of the working class I talk with are racist and completely ignorant" and lets see what happens. You preach about lack of action. I can guarantee you; you will find all the action you never wished to receive!

You sit there in the safety of your home and insult 90% of the population. COWARD!

Daemonica

See, this is exactly the type of response I expected. I'm no idiot. What the hell kind of argument is "Go say it to my face and see what happens". Exactly what I expected. Did you ever consider that maybe because we are apparently 90% WC (which btw is completely wrong, don't know where you got that reliable source from) that we can only progress so far?

And you talk of how you are a traveled person, a man of the world as it were. I have traveled also, the difference being that I have traveled to places for a reason, not to escape the country for a holiday or a better job. You can be the most traveled person in the world and it still doesn't matter if you are a racist.


Let me ask you a question. How many middle class students go on about the Nigerians? Just answer me that one right there. Then compare it to the working class. You'll see a huge difference.

I'm not implying all of them are. I'm implying that yes, most of them are. Maybe not from your generation, but certainly from mine. I understand you are proud of where you came from. I get that. But it still doesn't really matter at all. I don't care that you are proud of it. Show me proof that the working class can truly benefit the country.


Ironic that you call me a neo nazi. That's throwing around a phrase again.
Even discussing this with you is impossible. You're a moron who just uses the same inane responses thrown about by WC again and again to justify your meager thoughts on this. It doesn't work on me at all lad. Nice try though. And I might as well point out the irony for you, since my approach is agnostic, yours is left wing. You have no idea what left and right wing annotations actually are, so be quiet and get off the internet. It can really hurt people like you.

yoshytoshy

Daemonica wrote: »

See, this is exactly the type of response I expected. I'm no idiot. What the hell kind of argument is "Go say it to my face and see what happens". Exactly what I expected. Did you ever consider that maybe because we are apparently 90% WC (which btw is completely wrong, don't know where you got that reliable source from) that we can only progress so far?

And you talk of how you are a traveled person, a man of the world as it were. I have traveled also, the difference being that I have traveled to places for a reason, not to escape the country for a holiday or a better job. You can be the most traveled person in the world and it still doesn't matter if you are a racist.


Let me ask you a question. How many middle class students go on about the Nigerians? Just answer me that one right there. Then compare it to the working class. You'll see a huge difference.

I'm not implying all of them are. I'm implying that yes, most of them are. Maybe not from your generation, but certainly from mine. I understand you are proud of where you came from. I get that. But it still doesn't really matter at all. I don't care that you are proud of it. Show me proof that the working class can truly benefit the country.


Ironic that you call me a neo nazi. That's throwing around a phrase again.
Even discussing this with you is impossible. You're a moron who just uses the same inane responses thrown about by WC again and again to justify your meager thoughts on this. It doesn't work on me at all lad. Nice try though. And I might as well point out the irony for you, since my approach is agnostic, yours is left wing. You have no idea what left and right wing annotations actually are, so be quiet and get off the internet. It can really hurt people like you.

You are a really ignorant and abusive person.

Daemonica

I get that. I'm abusive/ uncaring. I don't care. I'm a realist and tired of sugar coating facts for idiots who can't deal with reality. Flowers and peace and all that aside, dramatism doesn't beget apathy, it is the opposite. And by the way, the working class are easily the most abusive social group in the country, voting No on Lisbon for retarded reasons and always complaining about people from other countries. I'm sick of it. What right do they have to bash my opinions of them when I have seen nothing to the contrary? When their zealous, directionless asses conform to the nanny state and complainer state ideology and still get nothing at all done?